Is America the greatest country in the world?

[Liability]

Here's one for $45 per case:

Halliburton Watch

And $100 for a load of laundry.

Then there's this:

A press release put out by Duckworth and Webb asserts the following:

This fiscal year, Congress will appropriate about $116 billion to military operations - a 72 percent increase since 2004. The monthly "burn rate" of spending in Iraq and Afghanistan will average almost $10 billion this year - an 18 percent jump from last year. Much of this amount is attributed to the Pentagon's reliance on contracted services, especially those that resulted from non-competitive bids. As an example of the wasteful spending she witnessed, Duckworth recalled that the cooks in her National Guard Unit were not allowed to cook because a Halliburton subsidiary, KBR, had received the contract to provide food at $22 a meal while paying the foreign cooks it hired less than $10 a day. Likewise, soldiers weren't allowed to sandbag their own facilities because KBR had the sandbag contract, paying Iraqi workers five or ten cents per sandbag and pocketing the rest. Duckworth pointed out that at the same time these contractors were profiting handsomely from billions in taxpayer-financed contracts, U.S. troops faced deadly shortages in body-armor and equipment. "Someone should have to answer for the disparity between what the contractors received and what our Soldiers didn't. Someone should be holding those contractors accountable," she said.​

More:

Iraq for Sale: War profiteering facts and research


There are plenty of links out there, if you are interested in anything more than bashing messengers.

There is a cottage industry of leftists like Haliburton Watch and the insufferably hideous Sen. Schumer taking their shots.

Some of it might be very well justified.

But consider the source.

You choose to lap up their claims because it suits your partisan agenda. But you have ZERO basis of knowledge as to whether or not the claims are true or fair or supported or valid. And be honest: you don't give a shit.

So you would rather bash the messenger.

Why am I not surprised?

The fact is that all of these can be backed up.

But, since it's a Rightwing corporation, YOU don't care.

Wrong again, Synth. You tend to be wrong an awful lot. I'd attribute it to carelessness on your part, except it is too much of a pattern.

I have no love of profiteers. And if some assholes in Halliburton are engaging in price gouging, etc., using war as their cover, then I endorse a healthy prosecution. As I correctly said before, SOME of the accusations against Halliburton might be quite justified.

But I reject your implicit premise that Halliburton deserves universal condemnation because of the very nature of the work it does.

You are quite clearly a partisan hack on the matter and notably non-objective. Sen. Schumer (the schmucky upchucky piece of shit) is a camera whore, but at least his whoring is predicated on his desire for press in order to get re-elected. Your biased carping is strictly a product of your partisan political blinders. And it is YOU and you alone who does not care.

 

[Synthaholic]

In Japan, if you feel that you need some codeine for your really bad flu, you have the freedom to walk into any pharmacy and buy it.

In the Netherlands, if you want to smoke marijuana, you have the freedom to do so.

In Germany, if you want to drive 100 mph on the highway, you have the freedom to do so.

That's just three...

If that is your definition of what makes a nation great. . . .

Well.....one of the main reasons the far Right claims we are the greatest is because we have the most freedom. But apparently, we don't.

 

[Synthaholic]

There is a cottage industry of leftists like Haliburton Watch and the insufferably hideous Sen. Schumer taking their shots.

Some of it might be very well justified.

But consider the source.

You choose to lap up their claims because it suits your partisan agenda. But you have ZERO basis of knowledge as to whether or not the claims are true or fair or supported or valid. And be honest: you don't give a shit.

So you would rather bash the messenger.

Why am I not surprised?

The fact is that all of these can be backed up.

But, since it's a Rightwing corporation, YOU don't care.

Wrong again, Synth. You tend to be wrong an awful lot. I'd attribute it to carelessness on your part, except it is too much of a pattern.

I have no love of profiteers. And if some assholes in Halliburton are engaging in price gouging, etc., using war as their cover, then I endorse a healthy prosecution. As I correctly said before, SOME of the accusations against Halliburton might be quite justified.

But I reject your implicit premise that Halliburton deserves universal condemnation because of the very nature of the work it does.

You are quite clearly a partisan hack on the matter and notably non-objective. Sen. Schumer (the schmucky upchucky piece of shit) is a camera whore, but at least his whoring is predicated on his desire for press in order to get re-elected. Your biased carping is strictly a product of your partisan political blinders. And it is YOU and you alone who does not care.

There is no "some". These are Halliburton contracts, not some rogue employee in a trenchcoat saying "Psst! Wanna buy some black market Coca-Cola?"

 

[Foxfyre]

Every Presidential Administration has issued multi Halliburton contracts since there has been a Halliburton because there are only two companies in the entire world that can do what Halliburton does and the other one is French. Halliburton contracts are not a matter of favoritism or cronyism or politics but simply the only way some things can realistically get done.

 

[Foxfyre]

Maybe because others don't see the US as that much of a freedom-loving place. I mean, on paper it is, but reality is another beast altogether....

Perhaps that is why so many have checked "No, but it could be again" in the poll choices. The more authority and power we allow the central government, the less freedom we have. Freedom loving people want only as much government as is necessary to secure our rights and then we will take it from there. But many Americans no longer understand that concept and look to government to provide them what they cannot or do not wish to provide for themselves.

The dichotomy is not lost on me that the very things that purport to make it great are also its Achille's heel. I think the belief that there is this generation of millions of people sucking off the govt teat is not warranted and overblown as to the cause of the US losing its place in the world as a country others aspire to emulate. To be honest, most other western countries I have visited have never aspired to be like the US including GB, France, Germany, Oz and NZ.

Yet many enjoy American music, American blue jeans, and other unique characteristics of our country. But why should they change their unique cultures and attempt to emulate ours?

We can certain enjoy and celebrate the delights of their cultures from French and Italian cuisine to BMWs to Swiss Chocolate. But why should those of us who love our country and appreciate the unique American culture and point of view seek to be more like them?

 

[Artevelde]

The following is maybe the most honest three and a half minutes we have seen in any medium for some time now. I think it will be disturbing to those of us who love our country, who feel pride and emotion when we salute the flag or hear the National Anthem, but for many it will also have a ring of truth.

But it is a debate we need to have as Americans, as freedom loving people, as people who see the potential in what humankind can be.

Is the United States of America the greatest country in the world? Was it ever? If so, can it be again? How?

I put this in the Tea Party forum because there was no other place for it. The Tea Party movement has consistently been focused on restoring America to its former greatness, prosperity, and best values.

If we could keep the discussion reasonably civil it would be much appreciated.

The most honest three and a half minutes of television, EVER... - YouTube

I didn't vote in the poll and as a non-US citizen I don't feel it's up to me to feel that the US is great or not.

That being said, I disagree rather profoundly with the fairly glib assertions made by the movie character in the clip. The idea that other countries have just as much freedom as the Us is simply not true. There is greater freedom in the US - a greater freedom to speak one's mind, much greater freedom of information, the press and politics; much greater economic and religious freedom; etc but this obviously also includes greater freedom to be poor, to make stupid choices, etc. It depends on one's personal beliefs and ideology if this makes the US greater than other countries or not.

Other than that, there are some fairly obvious facts:
-) the US is the greatest political, economic, military, technological and cultural global power to date
-) no country in the World inspires so much admiration, dreams and hopes in citizens of other countries and no country exerts such a draw on overseas students, entrepreneurs, immigrants, artists, etc.
-) clearly educational and ethical standards among young people in the US have declined substantially compared to their peers a few generations ago; the same can be said of the work ethic of substantial parts of the working population

 

[Foxfyre]

The following is maybe the most honest three and a half minutes we have seen in any medium for some time now. I think it will be disturbing to those of us who love our country, who feel pride and emotion when we salute the flag or hear the National Anthem, but for many it will also have a ring of truth.

But it is a debate we need to have as Americans, as freedom loving people, as people who see the potential in what humankind can be.

Is the United States of America the greatest country in the world? Was it ever? If so, can it be again? How?

I put this in the Tea Party forum because there was no other place for it. The Tea Party movement has consistently been focused on restoring America to its former greatness, prosperity, and best values.

If we could keep the discussion reasonably civil it would be much appreciated.

The most honest three and a half minutes of television, EVER... - YouTube

I didn't vote in the poll and as a non-US citizen I don't feel it's up to me to feel that the US is great or not.

That being said, I disagree rather profoundly with the fairly glib assertions made by the movie character in the clip. The idea that other countries have just as much freedom as the Us is simply not true. There is greater freedom in the US - a greater freedom to speak one's mind, much greater freedom of information, the press and politics; much greater economic and religious freedom; etc but this obviously also includes greater freedom to be poor, to make stupid choices, etc. It depends on one's personal beliefs and ideology if this makes the US greater than other countries or not.

Other than that, there are some fairly obvious facts:
-) the US is the greatest political, economic, military, technological and cultural global power to date
-) no country in the World inspires so much admiration, dreams and hopes in citizens of other countries and no country exerts such a draw on overseas students, entrepreneurs, immigrants, artists, etc.
-) clearly educational and ethical standards among young people in the US have declined substantially compared to their peers a few generations ago; the same can be said of the work ethic of substantial parts of the working population

Is there anybody who has more thoughtful insights than this? Thank you for your kind but realistic point of view re our sometimes dysfunctional American society, Arteveld. Your comments are part of why I checked both "yes"--with 'greatest' of course being subjective depending on our individual perceptions of that--and also checked "No, but it could be again".

On the matter of freedom, yes I do believe Americans enjoy more indivdual freedom than any people on Earth; however, the character in the video clip was not wrong when he noted that many people on Earth now enjoy freedoms. At least more freedoms than was possible for previous generations. Dictatorships have been transformed into Democratic Republics that do recognize and respect human rights even when they are more socialist than many of us Americans would be comfortable with.

The fact is many of those in those same more socialist countries would resist giving up the government provided services even to have their taxes lowered. It seems to be the nature of people to lack courage to give up what government does for them, even at exhorbitant prices, and risk going on their own. It is no different in America. Once people receive what they perceive as freebies from the government, they resist giving it up no matter how much good arguments can be made for eliminating certain programs or changing them into something else. Thus the big government favoring "Left" has become the new old style conservative resisting any fundamental change and demanding the status quo be maintained.

Your observations about breakdown in educational and ethical standards among Americans is spot on and another reason I checked "No, but it could be again." The Founders, to a man, were agreed that the U.S. Constitution would work only for a virtuous and moral people. When we lose that concept, we likely lose our Constitution with it.

 

[signelect]

If we were the greatest these little tyrants around the world would not be at war with us because they would be afraid. As an example the Russians couldn't bring Afganistan into line and we have not fared any better. We have probelms of our own we can't solve.

 

[MikeK]

In Japan, if you feel that you need some codeine for your really bad flu, you have the freedom to walk into any pharmacy and buy it.

In the Netherlands, if you want to smoke marijuana, you have the freedom to do so.

In Germany, if you want to drive 100 mph on the highway, you have the freedom to do so.

That's just three...

If that is your definition of what makes a nation great. . . .

It defines true freedom. How important is the sense of true freedom within your idea of greatness?

 

[Foxfyre]

If we were the greatest these little tyrants around the world would not be at war with us because they would be afraid. As an example the Russians couldn't bring Afganistan into line and we have not fared any better. We have probelms of our own we can't solve.

There are only a few invidual crazies in the world who would not think very long and hard before initiating hostilities with the U.S.A. And those crazies, while not to be taken lightly, are capable of doing only limited damage at this time. It should be apparent that we cannot buy or win over their appreciation or friendship short of 100% capitulating to their demands and becoming 100% like them. Few Americans are willing to do that, so their hatred of us is sort of a badge of honor in a way. Everybody isn't going to love us, and we should not compromise our principles in some misguided and emotional notion that we can appease anybody determined to do violence to us.

Certainly how we use our military power in the world and for what purposes is a legitimate subject for debate and, in my opinion, one America should seriously engage in. Currently it is decided on partisanship. If a Democrat orders action, the leftists mostly support and defend it. If it is a Republican calling the shots, those on the right mostly support and defend it. I can't think of a worse method for deciding what our national policies should be.

When the question earlier was whether the U.S.A. should mind its own business even when thousands or millions of people are being murdered somewhere, somebody said the answer was easy for him. But he never gave one. And nobody else even ventured to stick a toe in the water on that one. Why? Because it is such a damn hard question to answer.

 

[emptystep]

Yes. America has risen to be THE greatest country in the world. From thousands of years of blood, sweat, and tears America is the greatest country in the world. Has what happened along the way been something to be proud of? Sometimes, sometimes not so. We must never shrink from learning from what we are have done, good and bad. But now we are the greatest country in the world. A world that needs leadership on issues of global importance. Leadership does not mean telling people what to do. It means hosting the party, the conference.

For all those who have believed in you and died for you America, don't let eleventh hour self-doubt cripple you. Lead the way into the bold new world!

 

[Dr Grump]

Perhaps that is why so many have checked "No, but it could be again" in the poll choices. The more authority and power we allow the central government, the less freedom we have. Freedom loving people want only as much government as is necessary to secure our rights and then we will take it from there. But many Americans no longer understand that concept and look to government to provide them what they cannot or do not wish to provide for themselves.

The dichotomy is not lost on me that the very things that purport to make it great are also its Achille's heel. I think the belief that there is this generation of millions of people sucking off the govt teat is not warranted and overblown as to the cause of the US losing its place in the world as a country others aspire to emulate. To be honest, most other western countries I have visited have never aspired to be like the US including GB, France, Germany, Oz and NZ.

Yet many enjoy American music, American blue jeans, and other unique characteristics of our country. But why should they change their unique cultures and attempt to emulate ours?

We can certain enjoy and celebrate the delights of their cultures from French and Italian cuisine to BMWs to Swiss Chocolate. But why should those of us who love our country and appreciate the unique American culture and point of view seek to be more like them?

As you point out, Americans enjoy things about other cultures, too. And they don't try to change - in the most anyway. Some American habits are picked up now and again, just as plenty of your traditions come from other cultures.

I don'tthink you will ever lose those things that are uniquely American.

However, one thing that does rub me up the wrong way - and this is not unique to Aust/NZ - is people immigrating here and wanting us to change to meet their needs. France and Britain have recently said that multi-culturalism doesn't work. And I believe that. France have always welcomed immigrants, but with one caveat - "You want to come and live in France? Fine, but you must become French"...thus the less than tolerant attitude towards burkas etc....

 

[Dr Grump]

The idea that other countries have just as much freedom as the Us is simply not true. There is greater freedom in the US - a greater freedom to speak one's mind, much greater freedom of information, the press and politics; much greater economic and religious freedom; etc

Really? Where do you live?

 

[Dr Grump]

On the matter of freedom, yes I do believe Americans enjoy more indivdual freedom than any people on Earth.

Really? I don't....I feel I have more individual freedom down here than you do up there....

 

[Artevelde]

The idea that other countries have just as much freedom as the Us is simply not true. There is greater freedom in the US - a greater freedom to speak one's mind, much greater freedom of information, the press and politics; much greater economic and religious freedom; etc

Really? Where do you live?

I live in Belgium. I have also lived in the US in the past.

 

[editec]

The current land with the greatest FREEDOM?

Somalia.

There's your 100% libertarianism in action, kiddies.

The land comprised of nothing but ATLASes is a state of anarchy.

 

[Artevelde]

The current land with the greatest FREEDOM?

Somalia.

There's your 100% libertarianism in action, kiddies.

The land comprised of nothing but ATLASes is a state of anarchy.

Anarchy and freedom are not the same thing. Actually anarchy directly inhibits freedom.

 

[Dr Grump]

The idea that other countries have just as much freedom as the Us is simply not true. There is greater freedom in the US - a greater freedom to speak one's mind, much greater freedom of information, the press and politics; much greater economic and religious freedom; etc

Really? Where do you live?

I live in Belgium. I have also lived in the US in the past.

In practical terms, what freedoms do you not have in Belgium?

 

[Artevelde]

Really? Where do you live?

I live in Belgium. I have also lived in the US in the past.

In practical terms, what freedoms do you not have in Belgium?

Lots of legislation limits freedoms regarding speech, association, the press, etc. There is also far less freedom in the economic sphere and in employment.

 

[Foxfyre]

Agreeing with Dr. Grump that we diminish our American culture when out of some notion of political correctness we feel we are obligated to accommodate different cultures who come here to live. Up until the last 20-30 years or so, people who came here to live were expected to accommodate their culture to fit into ours including accepting our Constitution and flag, learning the language, and familiarizing themselves with our laws.

And the reason Americans are more free is that our government cannot change our Constitution without our consent. The government does not assign the rights we the people will have. We the people instruct the government in what responsibilities it will have. We are unique among nations in that regard. That in a nutshell is the crux of American exceptionalism.

Admittedly in recent years, too many Americans seem to have lost sight of that important point or have been brainwashed to be unable to understand it. And too many Americans are all too willing to hand over their responsibilities to government to do for them. And in so doing, they relinquish their individual liberties drip by drip, and if we do not reverse that trend, we will lose our most precious asset.

And agree with those who say anarchy is not freedom. The only true freedom is having your inalienable rights recognized, defended, and protected so that you can otherwise live your life as you please.