Is America the greatest country in the world?

[Unkotare]

Do you consider it a sign of cultural corruption and national dissolution that translation services are available at hospitals?

 

[Artevelde]

Up until the last 20-30 years or so, people who came here to live were expected to accommodate their culture to fit into ours including accepting our Constitution and flag, learning the language, and familiarizing themselves with our laws.

And that is still what happens today.

No it isn't. Again and again, even in examples posted in this thread I believe, the American flag is considered offensive to some people and therefore should not be flown while their previous country flag is not challenged. We have more and more complaints and protests against children being 'coerced' into memorizing and reciting the Pledge of Allegiance or being expected to show respectful protocol for the National Anthem and presentation of the flag. More and more people discourage certain patriotic songs or traditional heritage music because somebody might be offended.

There are nore and and more P.C. restrictions on what American Christians and Jews can do in the public sector while more and more accomodations are made for Islam. So many things that used to be as revered as Americana and as traditional as Mom and apple pie in American culture is being challenged or looked down on as somehow inappropriate or possibly offensive to somebody. And how many states now print everything in at least two languages as Hispanic immigrants are no longer expected to learn the language of business and commerce that would greatly enhance their assimilation into the American culture.

The previous generation, no matter what their country of orgin and no matter what their ethnicity might be, would have been incensed at having to press #1 for English. I have looked into the eyes of new immigrants and have seen the joy when they finally mastered enough English to competently recite their oath of citizenship. And they knew exactly what they were reciting too.

Borders, language, culture, and self governance are what has made the unique American culture. When one or more of those start becoming ambiguous and fuzzy, that culture starts coming apart at the seams.

I think most immigrants in the US still share the vision you have and are really proud to join your community (often more proud than some of the native sons and daughters I'm sorry to say). In this sense the US is still much more successful as an immigrant-assimilating country than most European countries for example.

But I do recognize the more negative trends you mention (less respect for traditional ceremonies and national heritage; less commonality of language and culture). They are far more pronounced and widespread here in Europe, but for several decades now they have also been present in the US. I tend to believe the US is still strong enough as a society to overcome this, but it is a challenge. And I tend to think that for example the current administration and large parts of the cultural and educational elite are going about it in totally the wrong way.

 

[Artevelde]

Do you consider it a sign of cultural corruption and national dissolution that translation services are available at hospitals?

I don't think anybody would claim that. But there is a difference between translation services being available for practical one-off occasions and the creation of a complete alternative system of services and social life in another language, thereby encouraging the establishment of seperate societies within the country and taking away the incentive for everybody to speak the common language. I can't stress enough how important a shared common language is in creating a common social, cultural and political community.

 

[Artevelde]

Not to belabour the point: but obviously the role of education in creating the common social, cultural and political community is absolutely crucial. And precisely here I'm afraid the US has taken some giant leaps backwards in the previous decades, with the decline in educational standards.

 

[Unkotare]

the creation of a complete alternative system of services and social life in another language.

What do you mean, specifically?

 

[there4eyeM]

How does randomly stopping people conform to probable cause?

 

[Unkotare]

I can't stress enough how important a shared common language is in creating a common social, cultural and political community.

You can't stress enough? And your expertise such that your emphasis has special urgency?

 

[Artevelde]

I can't stress enough how important a shared common language is in creating a common social, cultural and political community.

You can't stress enough? And your expertise such that your emphasis has special urgency?

I happen to live in a country that graphically illustrates this point. And yes, I do have substantial expertise in the matter.

 

[Artevelde]

the creation of a complete alternative system of services and social life in another language.

What do you mean, specifically?

What I mean is when a whole network of services (public and otherwise) is established that basically renders it possible to lead a normal public life without having to use the common language.

 

[Unkotare]

I can't stress enough how important a shared common language is in creating a common social, cultural and political community.

You can't stress enough? And your expertise such that your emphasis has special urgency?

I happen to live in a country that graphically illustrates this point. And yes, I do have substantial expertise in the matter.

Your country has 3 official languages and it doesn't seem to have dissolved yet. And please do tell of this substantial expertise.

 

[Unkotare]

the creation of a complete alternative system of services and social life in another language.

What do you mean, specifically?

What I mean is when a whole network of services (public and otherwise) is established that basically renders it possible to lead a normal public life without having to use the common language.

Did you see that I used the word "specifically"? What network of services?

 

[Indofred]

Do you consider it a sign of cultural corruption and national dissolution that translation services are available at hospitals?

Well bugger me with a large rubber thing.
Hospitals care about the people they look after.

What is the world coming to?

 

[Artevelde]

You can't stress enough? And your expertise such that your emphasis has special urgency?

I happen to live in a country that graphically illustrates this point. And yes, I do have substantial expertise in the matter.

Your country has 3 official languages and it doesn't seem to have dissolved yet. And please do tell of this substantial expertise.

It has to all intents and purposes dissolved. There are no national political parties (only parties within each language group) and there is no real national democracy. The federal government is - in fact - a permanent diplomatic conference - between the leading parties of the two main linguistic groups. There are no Belgians.

 

[Foxfyre]

Whether hospitals provide translation services should be a decision of the hospital. But anybody should be able to figure out that if everybody speaks the same language, diagnosis and delivery of medical services is much simplified and more efficiently and economically administered.

And being proficient in the primary language in which business and commerce is conducted is quite important in being self sufficient, supporting a ffamily, and avoiding poverty.

I think Arteveld is probably much more of an expert on his own country than are any of us. I wonder if this piece by NPR is accurate as to the problems multiculturalism and multilingualism is causing in Belgium?
Popular Belgian Party Rejects Multicultural Society : NPR

 

[Unkotare]

I happen to live in a country that graphically illustrates this point. And yes, I do have substantial expertise in the matter.

Your country has 3 official languages and it doesn't seem to have dissolved yet. And please do tell of this substantial expertise.

It has to all intents and purposes dissolved. There are no national political parties (only parties within each language group) and there is no real national democracy. The federal government is - in fact - a permanent diplomatic conference - between the leading parties of the two main linguistic groups. There are no Belgians.

So, what does it say on your passport? Where do you pay taxes? Can someone from Greece vote in your local elections?

 

[Unkotare]

I think Arteveld is probably much more of an expert on his own country than are any of us. ]

Who said anything about being an expert on Belgium?

 

[Unkotare]

And being proficient in the primary language in which business and commerce is conducted is quite important in being self sufficient, supporting a ffamily, and avoiding poverty.]

Has anyone suggested otherwise?

 

[Unkotare]

But anybody should be able to figure out that if everybody speaks the same language, diagnosis and delivery of medical services is much simplified and more efficiently and economically administered.]

Sure would be, but that has never been and will never be 100% the case.

 

[Foxfyre]

But anybody should be able to figure out that if everybody speaks the same language, diagnosis and delivery of medical services is much simplified and more efficiently and economically administered.]

Sure would be, but that has never been and will never be 100% the case.

It was once the case for new immigrants. And there was a time in America that we expected everybody to share the common language so that everything didn't have to be printed in more than one language. The concept I'm suggesting here is that accepting more than one shared language as the 'norm' is one of the things, not the only thing, that is diminishing us as the 'greatest nation in the world.'

 

[Unkotare]

But anybody should be able to figure out that if everybody speaks the same language, diagnosis and delivery of medical services is much simplified and more efficiently and economically administered.]

Sure would be, but that has never been and will never be 100% the case.

It was once the case for new immigrants.

NO, it was not.