Is Healthcare a Right? Obama Says "Yes!"

[WillReadmore]

Single payer systems have been far more successful world wide, giving better health care distribution, costing far less and getting competitive outcomes.

And, such systems treat humans with far greater equality than we had before Obamacare - and even WITH Obamacare, single payer is more equitable.

Perhaps that is why Obama wanted a single payer system for America.

What's the difference between that and expanding Medicaid to those who are not insured??

there is no money for Medicaid expansion.
If everyone is medicaid - there is no need of additional money, as everything becomes severely rationalized - in all 360 dimension.

you won't get a more radical but more expensive treatment when you are 70+ because those are reserved for those 40+ who are still the workforce and not you, who are a ballast now.
There won't be a surgery after 4 pm as after 4 pm only emergencies go ( as is now in the VA system).
So if you are admitted on the Friday night - your chole won't happen until Tuesday Unless you re a doctor's relative

We spend more money on healthcare than any other first world nation by a wide margin.

This idea that "Medicare for all" would be impossible because there isn't enough money spent on healthcare today is obvious nonsense.

Also, it's nonsense to suggest that we need to integrate the horrible BS we foist on our veterans. What we do there is an embarrassment.

And, your various other posits are baseless nonsense.

 

[dblack]

What's the difference between that and expanding Medicaid to those who are not insured??

there is no money for Medicaid expansion.
If everyone is medicaid - there is no need of additional money, as everything becomes severely rationalized - in all 360 dimension.

you won't get a more radical but more expensive treatment when you are 70+ because those are reserved for those 40+ who are still the workforce and not you, who are a ballast now.
There won't be a surgery after 4 pm as after 4 pm only emergencies go ( as is now in the VA system).
So if you are admitted on the Friday night - your chole won't happen until Tuesday Unless you re a doctor's relative

We spend more money on healthcare than any other first world nation by a wide margin.

Some of us do, some of us don't.

 

[WillReadmore]

What's the difference between that and expanding Medicaid to those who are not insured??

That's certainly one possibility - or one way of looking at it.

But, there are various flavors that are demonstrated by other countries. So, we can see how certain features play out.

One interesting idea is demonstrated by Belgium and some others. There, everyone gets a significant level of health care by the fact that they are a human. If rich folks think that isn't enough, they can buy additional coverage from insurance companies to add in stuff they think they are missing.

 

[rightwinger]

Are there "steps" in your right? The King has better rights than the peon on the street? Who gets the heart for a transplant? Bet it's the king or a well placed "Royal". So there goes the equal rights, or are there "equal rights" in your world?

Even now a "royal" does not get priority on transplant lists. It is all anonymous and based on the priority of the case itself

yes they do now - after the court system decided to rule on the 10 yo transplant.

the single payer system is one single magnificent corruption.
And only those who know it - know how to become royal
which I DO.

I was royal in single payer system before - I will be again.

You - won't

link

 

[rightwinger]

I'd love to hear rightwinger explain how someone has the right to someone elses services.

WTF are you whimpering about?

 

[WillReadmore]

there is no money for Medicaid expansion.
If everyone is medicaid - there is no need of additional money, as everything becomes severely rationalized - in all 360 dimension.

you won't get a more radical but more expensive treatment when you are 70+ because those are reserved for those 40+ who are still the workforce and not you, who are a ballast now.
There won't be a surgery after 4 pm as after 4 pm only emergencies go ( as is now in the VA system).
So if you are admitted on the Friday night - your chole won't happen until Tuesday Unless you re a doctor's relative

We spend more money on healthcare than any other first world nation by a wide margin.

Some of us do, some of us don't.

You don't know what's going to happen to your health.

Today, people go without coverage and then the public picks up the tab for them.

Sorry, but there is no reason to see that as acceptable.

 

[Vox]

What's the difference between that and expanding Medicaid to those who are not insured??

there is no money for Medicaid expansion.
If everyone is medicaid - there is no need of additional money, as everything becomes severely rationalized - in all 360 dimension.

you won't get a more radical but more expensive treatment when you are 70+ because those are reserved for those 40+ who are still the workforce and not you, who are a ballast now.
There won't be a surgery after 4 pm as after 4 pm only emergencies go ( as is now in the VA system).
So if you are admitted on the Friday night - your chole won't happen until Tuesday Unless you re a doctor's relative

We spend more money on healthcare than any other first world nation by a wide margin.

This idea that "Medicare for all" would be impossible because there isn't enough money spent on healthcare today is obvious nonsense.

Also, it's nonsense to suggest that we need to integrate the horrible BS we foist on our veterans. What we do there is an embarrassment.

And, your various other posits are baseless nonsense.

It depends what is counted.
Of course we spend more money, than nations who cut off patients form dialysis after they are 75, we also spend much more than nations which deny joint replacements after certain age, we spend an enormously higher amount of money on surgically treating broken hips in people who are in nursing homes and have Alzheimer's, we spend unbelievable amount of money providing second and even a third liver transplants to the patients with hep C and alcoholism, we throw the money out the window providing lung transplants for the 10 yo ( through court order) where the medical science knows and warns against transplant of adult lungs to a child and anywhere else in the world a pair of good lungs won't be wasted in such a way; we also spend a gigantic amount of money on state-of-the-art oncology treatments ( where the rest of the world is satisfied with a mediocre results).

yes, all of the above ( and much more) makes our healthcare the most expensive in the world. It also makes it THE BEST.

Would you like to go to the standards of the medical care of those countries which cut off the dialysis at 75, which don't consider TKA to be necessary at 80 or who do not allow liver transplants in a hep C or alcoholic patient?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I'd love to hear rightwinger explain how someone has the right to someone elses services.

WTF are you whimpering about?

Yes, i realize that you have no clue about individual liberty and private property. Most of your ilk dont. They just drone on and on about what they feel they deserve from other people.

 

[dblack]

We spend more money on healthcare than any other first world nation by a wide margin.

Some of us do, some of us don't.

You don't know what's going to happen to your health.

Today, people go without coverage and then the public picks up the tab for them.

Sorry, but there is no reason to see that as acceptable.

Agreed. That can be addressed very simply by repealing EMTALA. No reason to sell our souls to the insurance industry.

 

[Vox]

Even now a "royal" does not get priority on transplant lists. It is all anonymous and based on the priority of the case itself

yes they do now - after the court system decided to rule on the 10 yo transplant.

the single payer system is one single magnificent corruption.
And only those who know it - know how to become royal
which I DO.

I was royal in single payer system before - I will be again.

You - won't

link

to what? to the proof I was a royalty?

or to that I will be?

I was and I am behind the barrier - it is a royalty in a single payer system

 

[BobPlumb]

I'd love to hear rightwinger explain how someone has the right to someone elses services.

Our society is becoming an "Obama is your mama" state. The purpose of government is not to meet everyone 's basic needs.

 

[rightwinger]

I'd love to hear rightwinger explain how someone has the right to someone elses services.

WTF are you whimpering about?

Yes, i realize that you have no clue about individual liberty and private property. Most of your ilk dont. They just drone on and on about what they feel they deserve from other people.

What services do you own?
\
Are you whining because you have to share healthcare services with others?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

WTF are you whimpering about?

Yes, i realize that you have no clue about individual liberty and private property. Most of your ilk dont. They just drone on and on about what they feel they deserve from other people.

What services do you own?
\
Are you whining because you have to share healthcare services with others?

My labor. All the services I provide, I own. Same as any other individual in the private sector.

Share? You miss the point entirely. Of course, this comes as no surprise.

 

[Peterf]

Time to amend the Constitution to make healthcare a right

Only a Libertarian would oppose

Are there "steps" in your right? The King has better rights than the peon on the street? Who gets the heart for a transplant? Bet it's the king or a well placed "Royal". So there goes the equal rights, or are there "equal rights" in your world?

Single payer systems have been far more successful world wide, giving better health care distribution, costing far less and getting competitive outcomes.

And, such systems treat humans with far greater equality than we had before Obamacare - and even WITH Obamacare, single payer is more equitable.

Perhaps that is why Obama wanted a single payer system for America.

I think you are right. For decades it has been evident that the US gets a feeble bang for the health care buck. It is widely believed that US docs are so scared of being sued that they run every expensive test yet devised bumping up costs to no good purpose.

The trouble is that while it is not difficult to declare that health care is a 'human right' it is increasingly impossible to afford. People live longer, often with chronic illnesses which, ideally, should get the latest and most expensive treatments.

The Swedish system still works - sort of. But it is groaning under the strain and there is near universal agreement that it is worse than it was and steadily declining.

 

[rightwinger]

Yes, i realize that you have no clue about individual liberty and private property. Most of your ilk dont. They just drone on and on about what they feel they deserve from other people.

What services do you own?
\
Are you whining because you have to share healthcare services with others?

My labor. All the services I provide, I own. Same as any other individual in the private sector.

You are a healthcare provider?

Do tell

 

[TakeAStepBack]

What services do you own?
\
Are you whining because you have to share healthcare services with others?

My labor. All the services I provide, I own. Same as any other individual in the private sector.

You are a healthcare provider?

Do tell

Again, dullard, you've missed the point entirely.

 

[WillReadmore]

there is no money for Medicaid expansion.
If everyone is medicaid - there is no need of additional money, as everything becomes severely rationalized - in all 360 dimension.

you won't get a more radical but more expensive treatment when you are 70+ because those are reserved for those 40+ who are still the workforce and not you, who are a ballast now.
There won't be a surgery after 4 pm as after 4 pm only emergencies go ( as is now in the VA system).
So if you are admitted on the Friday night - your chole won't happen until Tuesday Unless you re a doctor's relative

We spend more money on healthcare than any other first world nation by a wide margin.

This idea that "Medicare for all" would be impossible because there isn't enough money spent on healthcare today is obvious nonsense.

Also, it's nonsense to suggest that we need to integrate the horrible BS we foist on our veterans. What we do there is an embarrassment.

And, your various other posits are baseless nonsense.

It depends what is counted.
Of course we spend more money, than nations who cut off patients form dialysis after they are 75, we also spend much more than nations which deny joint replacements after certain age, we spend an enormously higher amount of money on surgically treating broken hips in people who are in nursing homes and have Alzheimer's, we spend unbelievable amount of money providing second and even a third liver transplants to the patients with hep C and alcoholism, we throw the money out the window providing lung transplants for the 10 yo ( through court order) where the medical science knows and warns against transplant of adult lungs to a child and anywhere else in the world a pair of good lungs won't be wasted in such a way; we also spend a gigantic amount of money on state-of-the-art oncology treatments ( where the rest of the world is satisfied with a mediocre results).

yes, all of the above ( and much more) makes our healthcare the most expensive in the world. It also makes it THE BEST.

Would you like to go to the standards of the medical care of those countries which cut off the dialysis at 75, which don't consider TKA to be necessary at 80 or who do not allow liver transplants in a hep C or alcoholic patient?

WHO rates us as 65th on the list of nations ranked by health care distribution. We have a LOT of people who simply don't get health care.

Also, other nations (all of whom are single payer) have competitive health care stats in key areas such as longevity. They also have lower abortion rates even when they don't have laws against abortion as strict as ours. I would contend that a factor in this is that women in other countries can be fully confident that they will have the health care they need for themselves and their babies - something that young American women not financially established can not be sure of.

I just don't see your comparison as being a significant argument against single payer systems.

 

[rightwinger]

My labor. All the services I provide, I own. Same as any other individual in the private sector.

You are a healthcare provider?

Do tell

Again, dullard, you've missed the point entirely.

Does it have anything to do with Libertarians screaming.....I got mine, the hell with you?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

You are a healthcare provider?

Do tell

Again, dullard, you've missed the point entirely.

Does it have anything to do with Libertarians screaming.....I got mine, the hell with you?

Obfuscation. A typical tactic of the lying, cheating, stealing and murdering progressive mentality.

 

[Mojo2]

Is Healthcare a Right? Obama Says "Yes!"

And of course, again he's wrong. It cannot be a right, when it is mandated, fined if you don't get it and jailed if you don't pay the fine. The last time I read the Bill of Rights, they just don't work that way.

But this is what our leader said in the White House September 26, 2013.

The White House ✔ @WhiteHouse Follow
President Obama: "In the United States of America, health care is not a privilege for a fortunate few—it is a right." #Obamacare
9:57 AM - 26 Sep 2013
​

So, liberals, defend your leader, or tell me he was having yet another bad day. What do you think?

Nothing that requires someone else to give you anything is a right.