Is homosexuality a choice, a mental illness or something simply inherent?

[GreenBean]

The APA lists no known causes for homosexual, thoughthere are some hypotheses. What do you think and why?

As with all threads this one seems to have wandered off in 15 different directions -

The OP : Is homosexuality a choice, a mental illness or something simply inherent?

Point 1 - Is it inerited ?. ] Inherent = Genetic , Something One is Born With.

A.}No Valid argument nor viable theory exists to suggest that Homosexuality is inherited or something one is born with -nearly all factual data to date indicates it is an acquired trait - although through no fault of the victims [Gays] - it is believed to be [In most cases] the result of Early Childhood Trauma. Study after Study by unbiased and objective researchers adds weight to this argument continuoslly.

One 1992 study found that 37% of homosexual and bisexual men attending sexually transmitted disease clinics had been encouraged or forced to have sexual contact before age 19 with an older or more powerful partner. The median age of first contact was 10 years old. - Multiple Aspects of Sexual Orientation: Prevalence and Sociodemographic Correlates in a New Zealand National Survey

Self-reported childhood and adolescent sexual abuse among adult homosexual bisexual men.

The Twin Studies :

Eight major studies of identical twins in Australia, the U.S., and Scandinavia during the last two decades all arrive at the same conclusion: gays were not born that way.

Identical twin studies prove homosexuality is not genetic

However Geneics is quite possibly a minor factor in determining ones susceptibility to the Mental illness or Homosexuality.

So therefore - back to the OP - YES - Homosexuality is a choice , not allways a consious choice - and certainly never an intelligent one - but a choice none the less.

Is it Inherited ? -NO - No scientific data exists that would supprot that argument It is not INherited - allthough susceptibility to it may have minor genetic correlation.


Point 2.] Is it a Mental Illness .

Homosexuality is an unhealthy and self destructive mental condition- harmful not only to the homosexuals themselves, but society as a whole. The strongest argument the gay activists have for not considering Homosexuality to be an illness is the fact that the APA removed it from their DSM - list of Menatl Illnesses back in the 70s - but that move has been proven over and over and over again to be a political move with no scientific basis of fact , nor even plausible theory to support it's no longer being considered a Mental Ilness .

Even the Author of the Motion to have it de-listed Dr. Nicholas Cummings, has stated that the motion he wrote back in the 70s was a grave mistake - and that data since that time has indeed proven it is a Mental Illness that can and has been treated successfully.

The APA itself has prettyy close to zero credibility in the scientific community , although their political clout is tremendous and devestating to the careers of all who oppose them or their socio-fascist political agenda.


POINT 1 - Is it Inherited -NO
POINT 2 - Is it a Mental Ilness - YES

So long as nobody has any plausible intelligent facts to present to the contrary - I do believe we can consider this matter closed .

 

[Inevitable]

What?

I explained
* WHEN it was a CHOICE
* WHEN it was NOT a choice
* WHEN it DOES involve MENTAL ILLNESS
* and how it could be a
Spiritually Determined factor

How is this NOT answering the question?
It is different for different people
and I listed a number of ways that
people have described it for themselves!

Are you only looking for people who
want to say it is a mental illness so you can argue with them?

Were all my answers above fair and consistent
so there is nothing to argue with?

How do these NOT apply?
Did I overexplain them and that is what is wrong?

Sorry I thought I was getting better
at answering not worse!

Your blathering about something you fail to define, "natural healing," isn't related.

OK that can be fixed:
1. under the answer to "is it is a choice or something inherent"
and I answered in some cases it can be "Spiritually Determined"
(ie something inherent, but more on a spiritual level)

the reason this applies is that it
COULD BE ONE of the Purposes for Homosexuality:
to focus public attention on natural spiritual healing
for greater benefit of society to have this knowledge

So for this particular purpose Homosexuality serves,
the conflict itself is meant to force public debate and attention
to methods of HEALING that help save other people with lifethreatening diseases.

This method of HEALING would not have been brought out publicly
EXCEPT that so many people pushed for policy reform on homosexuality
and conversion therapy, that the issues escalated to national public attention.

So that is one answer as to "is it a choice or something inherent":
It is spiritual caused, with one purpose being to uncover knowledge of
spiritual healing to help more people and solve greater problems.

2. I tried to describe the process of "natural spiritual healing"
in a reply to someone else on this thread:

basically it is about identifying any areas of
"unforgiven" conflicts or issues causing negative effects
to mind/body/spirit or relationships,
and praying/agreeing to "FORGIVE" those negative areas
so that these blockages are removed and healed, and all
related emotions and events/relationships also find healing in the process.

What practitioners and recipients have found is that by removing the
blockage of unforgiven things from the past (from this lifetime or
past generations) this RESTORES the natural flow of positive life energy
so the mind/body heals itself as normal; and also people can heal
the relationships around them with the same FORGIVENESS process.

How this applies to homosexuality:
1. in cases where people healed of unnatural abuse and/or changed
their homosexual "lifestyle/relationships/choices" or whatever they describe it as
the common factor is they went through a spiritual healing process
based on FORGIVENESS
2. however, this does not apply to ALL homosexuality
If someone is naturally the opposite gender or orientation,
that may not change, or be something they need or want to change;
it does not apply.
3. And this does not "JUST apply to homosexuality" but all people,
whether applied to healing cancer and other physical and mental illness.

[MENTION=49586]Inevitable[/MENTION]
In order to "make any sense" of my answer that homosexuality may
be "spiritually created" as inherent in some cases, a choice in others,
or a disorder/illness to other people who sought and received change,
I explained the full context of spiritual healing so it is clear that
the CAUSES of homosexuality may include DIVINE PURPOSE
of helping A LOT MORE PEOPLE than just affected by homosexuality.

How can I expect you to understand this answer
if you do not understand the profound social, medical and
collective impact of spiritual healing, which can now be
brought to public attention because of the controversy
and publicity surrounding homosexuality and conversion therapy?

You will think this does not apply if I don't explain the full context.
So that is why I included that. Sorry if this isn't clear or understood.

what is 'natural healing'?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If Americans really believed the jesus stories were real we would be a christian nation. There would be no seperation of church and state. Fact is our forefathers were smart enough to know to keep the corrupt churches/religions away from our government/democracy/freedom/nation/fill in the blank.

Most supposed christians don't even take the bible literally.

“Now, if the book of Genesis is an allegory, then sin is an allegory, the Fall is an allegory and the need for a Savior is an allegory – but if we are all descendants of an allegory, where does that leave us? It destroys the foundation of all Christian doctrine—it destroys the foundation of the gospel.” - Ken Ham

1. The concept of the secular govt and secular laws of the gentiles
IS in the Bible/Christianity also. It does NOT require rejecting Christianity.

This is natural law, @sealybobo

* The people under religious laws of the church (Jews, Christians, Muslims)
are under that means of authority and address each other using THOSE laws.

* the people under SECULAR laws of science, civil laws, psychology/sociology, etc.
use THOSE laws to address each other in context/language they understand

BOTH folds are part of the same flock
These are NOT in conflict but supposed to be "in harmony"
Natural laws and religious laws are all supposed to reflect Universal truths for all humanity,
just in different forms/languages/contexts that have separate jurisdiction.
This is to help organize people by affiliation so all people can be represented
either directly or indirectly through the body or system they relate to.

2. What Jesus means is Justice.
"Equal Justice Under Law" is on the Supreme Court building
So this is a secular concept also.

You cannot get away from the concept or authority of "Justice"
* whether you use scriptural/Christian terms for Jesus or Justice with Mercy,
* or you use secular laws about Peace and Justice, Restorative Justice
* or Constitutional terms of "Equal Justice or Protection of the Laws"
(see also Houston Police Logo that even states "Order through Law, Justice with Mercy")
These are universal concepts of Law and Justice for Peace.

3. Separation of church and state
means to impose neither authority over the other

It does NOT mean to "reject one for the other"
In fact, we would NOT have to "reject one for the other"
if we quit IMPOSING one on the other in the first place!

So separate and this rejection/conflict doesn't have to happen.
THAT is the point.

If we were all truly christians or a christian nation and if that many people really believed the bible and took the stories literally, we would only need the bible. I suspect enough of our forefathers were atheists and insisted we separate church and state. Thank Justice, I mean god, or whatever you are calling it today.

You really don't know history, do you?

 

[Inevitable]

The APA lists no known causes for homosexual, thoughthere are some hypotheses. What do you think and why?

As with all threads this one seems to have wandered off in 15 different directions -

The OP : Is homosexuality a choice, a mental illness or something simply inherent?

Point 1 - Is it inerited ?. ] Inherent = Genetic , Something One is Born With.

A.}No Valid argument nor viable theory exists to suggest that Homosexuality is inherited or something one is born with -nearly all factual data to date indicates it is an acquired trait - although through no fault of the victims [Gays] - it is believed to be [In most cases] the result of Early Childhood Trauma. Study after Study by unbiased and objective researchers adds weight to this argument continuoslly.

One 1992 study found that 37% of homosexual and bisexual men attending sexually transmitted disease clinics had been encouraged or forced to have sexual contact before age 19 with an older or more powerful partner. The median age of first contact was 10 years old. - Multiple Aspects of Sexual Orientation: Prevalence and Sociodemographic Correlates in a New Zealand National Survey

Self-reported childhood and adolescent sexual abuse among adult homosexual bisexual men.

The Twin Studies :

Eight major studies of identical twins in Australia, the U.S., and Scandinavia during the last two decades all arrive at the same conclusion: gays were not born that way.

Identical twin studies prove homosexuality is not genetic

However Geneics is quite possibly a minor factor in determining ones susceptibility to the Mental illness or Homosexuality.

So therefore - back to the OP - YES - Homosexuality is a choice , not allways a consious choice - and certainly never an intelligent one - but a choice none the less.

Is it Inherited ? -NO - No scientific data exists that would supprot that argument It is not INherited - allthough susceptibility to it may have minor genetic correlation.


Point 2.] Is it a Mental Illness .

Homosexuality is an unhealthy and self destructive mental condition- harmful not only to the homosexuals themselves, but society as a whole. The strongest argument the gay activists have for not considering Homosexuality to be an illness is the fact that the APA removed it from their DSM - list of Menatl Illnesses back in the 70s - but that move has been proven over and over and over again to be a political move with no scientific basis of fact , nor even plausible theory to support it's no longer being considered a Mental Ilness .

Even the Author of the Motion to have it de-listed Dr. Nicholas Cummings, has stated that the motion he wrote back in the 70s was a grave mistake - and that data since that time has indeed proven it is a Mental Illness that can and has been treated successfully.

The APA itself has prettyy close to zero credibility in the scientific community , although their political clout is tremendous and devestating to the careers of all who oppose them or their socio-fascist political agenda.


POINT 1 - Is it Inherited -NO
POINT 2 - Is it a Mental Ilness - YES

So long as nobody has any plausible intelligent facts to present to the contrary - I do believe we can consider this matter closed .

Sorry Greeny proving your claim wrong isn't how it works.

 

[GreenBean]

The APA lists no known causes for homosexual, thoughthere are some hypotheses. What do you think and why?

As with all threads this one seems to have wandered off in 15 different directions -

The OP : Is homosexuality a choice, a mental illness or something simply inherent?

Point 1 - Is it inerited ?. ] Inherent = Genetic , Something One is Born With.

A.}No Valid argument nor viable theory exists to suggest that Homosexuality is inherited or something one is born with -nearly all factual data to date indicates it is an acquired trait - although through no fault of the victims [Gays] - it is believed to be [In most cases] the result of Early Childhood Trauma. Study after Study by unbiased and objective researchers adds weight to this argument continuoslly.

One 1992 study found that 37% of homosexual and bisexual men attending sexually transmitted disease clinics had been encouraged or forced to have sexual contact before age 19 with an older or more powerful partner. The median age of first contact was 10 years old. - Multiple Aspects of Sexual Orientation: Prevalence and Sociodemographic Correlates in a New Zealand National Survey

Self-reported childhood and adolescent sexual abuse among adult homosexual bisexual men.

The Twin Studies :

Eight major studies of identical twins in Australia, the U.S., and Scandinavia during the last two decades all arrive at the same conclusion: gays were not born that way.

Identical twin studies prove homosexuality is not genetic

However Geneics is quite possibly a minor factor in determining ones susceptibility to the Mental illness or Homosexuality.

So therefore - back to the OP - YES - Homosexuality is a choice , not allways a consious choice - and certainly never an intelligent one - but a choice none the less.

Is it Inherited ? -NO - No scientific data exists that would supprot that argument It is not INherited - allthough susceptibility to it may have minor genetic correlation.


Point 2.] Is it a Mental Illness .

Homosexuality is an unhealthy and self destructive mental condition- harmful not only to the homosexuals themselves, but society as a whole. The strongest argument the gay activists have for not considering Homosexuality to be an illness is the fact that the APA removed it from their DSM - list of Menatl Illnesses back in the 70s - but that move has been proven over and over and over again to be a political move with no scientific basis of fact , nor even plausible theory to support it's no longer being considered a Mental Ilness .

Even the Author of the Motion to have it de-listed Dr. Nicholas Cummings, has stated that the motion he wrote back in the 70s was a grave mistake - and that data since that time has indeed proven it is a Mental Illness that can and has been treated successfully.

The APA itself has prettyy close to zero credibility in the scientific community , although their political clout is tremendous and devestating to the careers of all who oppose them or their socio-fascist political agenda.


POINT 1 - Is it Inherited -NO
POINT 2 - Is it a Mental Ilness - YES

So long as nobody has any plausible intelligent facts to present to the contrary - I do believe we can consider this matter closed .

Sorry Greeny proving your claim wrong isn't how it works.

Sorry Inevitable Denying reality isn't how it works

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Whast is or isn't a mental illness (in the US) is the result of popular voting (a show of hands.) Thus how homosexuality WAS a mental illness until it wasn't any more (1978 if I recall.) So I wouldn't put much stock in what is or isn't. Nor use that definition as a base for anything derived from it. Be just as accurate to say it's caused by demon-possession. Which is to say not very accurate at all. Ultimtely it comes down to wanting to do something with that information and have some kind of empirical legs to stand on.

Bottom line though is simply this: some people are homosexual, most are hetereosexual. But neither is superior to the other because of who they enjoy having sex with.

What we should be asking and writing lengthy threads about is "Why do some people feel the need to judge another's worth because of who they fancy?"

 

[GreenBean]

Whast is or isn't a mental illness (in the US) is the result of popular voting (a show of hands.) Thus how homosexuality WAS a mental illness until it wasn't any more (1978 if I recall.) So I wouldn't put much stock in what is or isn't. Nor use that definition as a base for anything derived from it. Be just as accurate to say it's caused by demon-possession. Which is to say not very accurate at all. Ultimtely it comes down to wanting to do something with that information and have some kind of empirical legs to stand on.

Bottom line though is simply this: some people are homosexual, most are hetereosexual. But neither is superior to the other because of who they enjoy having sex with.

What we should be asking and writing lengthy threads about is "Why do some people feel the need to judge another's worth because of who they fancy?"

Whast is or isn't a mental illness (in the US) is the result of popular voting (a show of hands.) Thus how homosexuality WAS a mental illness until it wasn't any more (1978 if I recall.) So I wouldn't put much stock in what is or isn't.

A show of hands is hardly scientific - if you were to Take a room full of crackheads and by a show of hands determine that Crack is good and natural - you could by "popular vote" legalize crack.

Back in the 70s - that's excatly what was perpetraed by the APA - they ignored science and by a show hands [and only a very slim majority at that] they basically made the determination that "Crack is good" and the crackheads proceeded to blatanty moonshine the once sane society with their cracks .

Nor use that definition as a base for anything derived from it. Be just as accurate to say it's caused by demon-possession.

Demonic possession huh ? Okay - lets go with that - . Some modern philosophers and theologians describe demons as a manifestation of the dark side of the Human Psyche. So using that definition - yes you could conceivably say that Homosexuality is the equivalent of Demonic Possession.

Which is to say not very accurate at all. Ultimtely it comes down to wanting to do something with that information and have some kind of empirical legs to stand on.

Please elaborate - that statement could be taken into any point on the intellectual compass .

Bottom line though is simply this: some people are homosexual, most are hetereosexual. But neither is superior to the other

Is a crackhead or alcoholic inferior to a sober person ? In the respect that they have no control over their substance abuse issues - Yes.

In other respects SOME are superior - Truman Capote, a great author whom I had the pleasure of meeting on Long Island many years ago. He was an alocoholic as well as an abuser of other substances and he was also a rabid foaming at the mouth queer - but to try and claim myself superior to him in the writing realm would be a joke -to try and claim myself superior to him as a human being is very credible..

What we should be asking and writing lengthy threads about is "Why do some people feel the need to judge another's worth because of who they fancy?"

Someones worth - outside of their sexal degeneracy is hardly based on who they fancy .
Homosexuality is a self destructive mental issue - arrested sexual development .It is un natural, unhealthy and un-neccessaryact of perverted sexual gratification - no different from pedophillia, beastiality, necrophillia, or other assorted dementias .

If that's how you envision the future then perhaps they should designate a section of the planet for the esclusive use of the perverts - far away from sane people - How's Anarctica sound?

 

[Inevitable]

As with all threads this one seems to have wandered off in 15 different directions -

The OP : Is homosexuality a choice, a mental illness or something simply inherent?

Point 1 - Is it inerited ?. ] Inherent = Genetic , Something One is Born With.

A.}No Valid argument nor viable theory exists to suggest that Homosexuality is inherited or something one is born with -nearly all factual data to date indicates it is an acquired trait - although through no fault of the victims [Gays] - it is believed to be [In most cases] the result of Early Childhood Trauma. Study after Study by unbiased and objective researchers adds weight to this argument continuoslly.

One 1992 study found that 37% of homosexual and bisexual men attending sexually transmitted disease clinics had been encouraged or forced to have sexual contact before age 19 with an older or more powerful partner. The median age of first contact was 10 years old. - Multiple Aspects of Sexual Orientation: Prevalence and Sociodemographic Correlates in a New Zealand National Survey

Self-reported childhood and adolescent sexual abuse among adult homosexual bisexual men.

The Twin Studies :

Eight major studies of identical twins in Australia, the U.S., and Scandinavia during the last two decades all arrive at the same conclusion: gays were not born that way.

Identical twin studies prove homosexuality is not genetic

However Geneics is quite possibly a minor factor in determining ones susceptibility to the Mental illness or Homosexuality.

So therefore - back to the OP - YES - Homosexuality is a choice , not allways a consious choice - and certainly never an intelligent one - but a choice none the less.

Is it Inherited ? -NO - No scientific data exists that would supprot that argument It is not INherited - allthough susceptibility to it may have minor genetic correlation.


Point 2.] Is it a Mental Illness .

Homosexuality is an unhealthy and self destructive mental condition- harmful not only to the homosexuals themselves, but society as a whole. The strongest argument the gay activists have for not considering Homosexuality to be an illness is the fact that the APA removed it from their DSM - list of Menatl Illnesses back in the 70s - but that move has been proven over and over and over again to be a political move with no scientific basis of fact , nor even plausible theory to support it's no longer being considered a Mental Ilness .

Even the Author of the Motion to have it de-listed Dr. Nicholas Cummings, has stated that the motion he wrote back in the 70s was a grave mistake - and that data since that time has indeed proven it is a Mental Illness that can and has been treated successfully.

The APA itself has prettyy close to zero credibility in the scientific community , although their political clout is tremendous and devestating to the careers of all who oppose them or their socio-fascist political agenda.


POINT 1 - Is it Inherited -NO
POINT 2 - Is it a Mental Ilness - YES

So long as nobody has any plausible intelligent facts to present to the contrary - I do believe we can consider this matter closed .

Sorry Greeny proving your claim wrong isn't how it works.

Sorry Inevitable Denying reality isn't how it works

Sorry greeny you didn't post reality

 

[Inevitable]

Whast is or isn't a mental illness (in the US) is the result of popular voting (a show of hands.) Thus how homosexuality WAS a mental illness until it wasn't any more (1978 if I recall.) So I wouldn't put much stock in what is or isn't. Nor use that definition as a base for anything derived from it. Be just as accurate to say it's caused by demon-possession. Which is to say not very accurate at all. Ultimtely it comes down to wanting to do something with that information and have some kind of empirical legs to stand on.

Bottom line though is simply this: some people are homosexual, most are hetereosexual. But neither is superior to the other because of who they enjoy having sex with.

What we should be asking and writing lengthy threads about is "Why do some people feel the need to judge another's worth because of who they fancy?"

Whast is or isn't a mental illness (in the US) is the result of popular voting (a show of hands.) Thus how homosexuality WAS a mental illness until it wasn't any more (1978 if I recall.) So I wouldn't put much stock in what is or isn't.

A show of hands is hardly scientific - if you were to Take a room full of crackheads and by a show of hands determine that Crack is good and natural - you could by "popular vote" legalize crack.

Back in the 70s - that's excatly what was perpetraed by the APA - they ignored science and by a show hands [and only a very slim majority at that] they basically made the determination that "Crack is good" and the crackheads proceeded to blatanty moonshine the once sane society with their cracks .



Demonic possession huh ? Okay - lets go with that - . Some modern philosophers and theologians describe demons as a manifestation of the dark side of the Human Psyche. So using that definition - yes you could conceivably say that Homosexuality is the equivalent of Demonic Possession.



Please elaborate - that statement could be taken into any point on the intellectual compass .

Bottom line though is simply this: some people are homosexual, most are hetereosexual. But neither is superior to the other

Is a crackhead or alcoholic inferior to a sober person ? In the respect that they have no control over their substance abuse issues - Yes.

In other respects SOME are superior - Truman Capote, a great author whom I had the pleasure of meeting on Long Island many years ago. He was an alocoholic as well as an abuser of other substances and he was also a rabid foaming at the mouth queer - but to try and claim myself superior to him in the writing realm would be a joke -to try and claim myself superior to him as a human being is very credible..

What we should be asking and writing lengthy threads about is "Why do some people feel the need to judge another's worth because of who they fancy?"

Someones worth - outside of their sexal degeneracy is hardly based on who they fancy .
Homosexuality is a self destructive mental issue - arrested sexual development .It is un natural, unhealthy and un-neccessaryact of perverted sexual gratification - no different from pedophillia, beastiality, necrophillia, or other assorted dementias .

If that's how you envision the future then perhaps they should designate a section of the planet for the esclusive use of the perverts - far away from sane people - How's Anarctica sound?

If a show of hands isn't an appropriate way to determine mental illness, than they were wrong in the 50s for using that method to add homosexuality to the list of mental illnesses.

 

[GISMYS]

Whast is or isn't a mental illness (in the US) is the result of popular voting (a show of hands.) Thus how homosexuality WAS a mental illness until it wasn't any more (1978 if I recall.) So I wouldn't put much stock in what is or isn't. Nor use that definition as a base for anything derived from it. Be just as accurate to say it's caused by demon-possession. Which is to say not very accurate at all. Ultimtely it comes down to wanting to do something with that information and have some kind of empirical legs to stand on.

Bottom line though is simply this: some people are homosexual, most are hetereosexual. But neither is superior to the other because of who they enjoy having sex with.

What we should be asking and writing lengthy threads about is "Why do some people feel the need to judge another's worth because of who they fancy?"

A show of hands is hardly scientific - if you were to Take a room full of crackheads and by a show of hands determine that Crack is good and natural - you could by "popular vote" legalize crack.

Back in the 70s - that's excatly what was perpetraed by the APA - they ignored science and by a show hands [and only a very slim majority at that] they basically made the determination that "Crack is good" and the crackheads proceeded to blatanty moonshine the once sane society with their cracks .



Demonic possession huh ? Okay - lets go with that - . Some modern philosophers and theologians describe demons as a manifestation of the dark side of the Human Psyche. So using that definition - yes you could conceivably say that Homosexuality is the equivalent of Demonic Possession.



Please elaborate - that statement could be taken into any point on the intellectual compass .



Is a crackhead or alcoholic inferior to a sober person ? In the respect that they have no control over their substance abuse issues - Yes.

In other respects SOME are superior - Truman Capote, a great author whom I had the pleasure of meeting on Long Island many years ago. He was an alocoholic as well as an abuser of other substances and he was also a rabid foaming at the mouth queer - but to try and claim myself superior to him in the writing realm would be a joke -to try and claim myself superior to him as a human being is very credible..

What we should be asking and writing lengthy threads about is "Why do some people feel the need to judge another's worth because of who they fancy?"

Someones worth - outside of their sexal degeneracy is hardly based on who they fancy .
Homosexuality is a self destructive mental issue - arrested sexual development .It is un natural, unhealthy and un-neccessaryact of perverted sexual gratification - no different from pedophillia, beastiality, necrophillia, or other assorted dementias .

If that's how you envision the future then perhaps they should designate a section of the planet for the esclusive use of the perverts - far away from sane people - How's Anarctica sound?

If a show of hands isn't an appropriate way to determine mental illness, than they were wrong in the 50s for using that method to add homosexuality to the list of mental illnesses.

ALL sin is a mental lliness of poor non-thinking choice!!!

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

A show of hands is hardly scientific - if you were to Take a room full of crackheads and by a show of hands determine that Crack is good and natural - you could by "popular vote" legalize crack.

Back in the 70s - that's excatly what was perpetraed by the APA - they ignored science and by a show hands [and only a very slim majority at that] they basically made the determination that "Crack is good" and the crackheads proceeded to blatanty moonshine the once sane society with their cracks .



Demonic possession huh ? Okay - lets go with that - . Some modern philosophers and theologians describe demons as a manifestation of the dark side of the Human Psyche. So using that definition - yes you could conceivably say that Homosexuality is the equivalent of Demonic Possession.



Please elaborate - that statement could be taken into any point on the intellectual compass .



Is a crackhead or alcoholic inferior to a sober person ? In the respect that they have no control over their substance abuse issues - Yes.

In other respects SOME are superior - Truman Capote, a great author whom I had the pleasure of meeting on Long Island many years ago. He was an alocoholic as well as an abuser of other substances and he was also a rabid foaming at the mouth queer - but to try and claim myself superior to him in the writing realm would be a joke -to try and claim myself superior to him as a human being is very credible..




Someones worth - outside of their sexal degeneracy is hardly based on who they fancy .
Homosexuality is a self destructive mental issue - arrested sexual development .It is un natural, unhealthy and un-neccessaryact of perverted sexual gratification - no different from pedophillia, beastiality, necrophillia, or other assorted dementias .

If that's how you envision the future then perhaps they should designate a section of the planet for the esclusive use of the perverts - far away from sane people - How's Anarctica sound?

If a show of hands isn't an appropriate way to determine mental illness, than they were wrong in the 50s for using that method to add homosexuality to the list of mental illnesses.

ALL sin is a mental lliness of poor non-thinking choice!!!

According to you. Most people now, no longer view it that way.

Your constant references to God are getting quite annoying.

 

[GISMYS]

If a show of hands isn't an appropriate way to determine mental illness, than they were wrong in the 50s for using that method to add homosexuality to the list of mental illnesses.

ALL sin is a mental lliness of poor non-thinking choice!!!

According to you. Most people now, no longer view it that way.

Your constant references to God are getting quite annoying.

YES!!! SATAN AND DEMONS hate to see anything about GOD posted anywhere,can't you hear them crying,sctreaming,cursing??they know their time is short!! and you??

 

[Inevitable]

What?

I explained
* WHEN it was a CHOICE
* WHEN it was NOT a choice
* WHEN it DOES involve MENTAL ILLNESS
* and how it could be a
Spiritually Determined factor

How is this NOT answering the question?
It is different for different people
and I listed a number of ways that
people have described it for themselves!

Are you only looking for people who
want to say it is a mental illness so you can argue with them?

Were all my answers above fair and consistent
so there is nothing to argue with?

How do these NOT apply?
Did I overexplain them and that is what is wrong?

Sorry I thought I was getting better
at answering not worse!

Your blathering about something you fail to define, "natural healing," isn't related.

OK that can be fixed:
1. under the answer to "is it is a choice or something inherent"
and I answered in some cases it can be "Spiritually Determined"
(ie something inherent, but more on a spiritual level)

the reason this applies is that it
COULD BE ONE of the Purposes for Homosexuality:
to focus public attention on natural spiritual healing
for greater benefit of society to have this knowledge

So for this particular purpose Homosexuality serves,
the conflict itself is meant to force public debate and attention
to methods of HEALING that help save other people with lifethreatening diseases.

This method of HEALING would not have been brought out publicly
EXCEPT that so many people pushed for policy reform on homosexuality
and conversion therapy, that the issues escalated to national public attention.

So that is one answer as to "is it a choice or something inherent":
It is spiritual caused, with one purpose being to uncover knowledge of
spiritual healing to help more people and solve greater problems.

2. I tried to describe the process of "natural spiritual healing"
in a reply to someone else on this thread:

basically it is about identifying any areas of
"unforgiven" conflicts or issues causing negative effects
to mind/body/spirit or relationships,
and praying/agreeing to "FORGIVE" those negative areas
so that these blockages are removed and healed, and all
related emotions and events/relationships also find healing in the process.

What practitioners and recipients have found is that by removing the
blockage of unforgiven things from the past (from this lifetime or
past generations) this RESTORES the natural flow of positive life energy
so the mind/body heals itself as normal; and also people can heal
the relationships around them with the same FORGIVENESS process.

How this applies to homosexuality:
1. in cases where people healed of unnatural abuse and/or changed
their homosexual "lifestyle/relationships/choices" or whatever they describe it as
the common factor is they went through a spiritual healing process
based on FORGIVENESS
2. however, this does not apply to ALL homosexuality
If someone is naturally the opposite gender or orientation,
that may not change, or be something they need or want to change;
it does not apply.
3. And this does not "JUST apply to homosexuality" but all people,
whether applied to healing cancer and other physical and mental illness.

[MENTION=49586]Inevitable[/MENTION]
In order to "make any sense" of my answer that homosexuality may
be "spiritually created" as inherent in some cases, a choice in others,
or a disorder/illness to other people who sought and received change,
I explained the full context of spiritual healing so it is clear that
the CAUSES of homosexuality may include DIVINE PURPOSE
of helping A LOT MORE PEOPLE than just affected by homosexuality.

How can I expect you to understand this answer
if you do not understand the profound social, medical and
collective impact of spiritual healing, which can now be
brought to public attention because of the controversy
and publicity surrounding homosexuality and conversion therapy?

You will think this does not apply if I don't explain the full context.
So that is why I included that. Sorry if this isn't clear or understood.

[MENTION=22295]emilynghiem[/MENTION]
nothing can be brought to conversion therapy to make it legitimate. I don't for one momentbelieve that people can be raped gay or abused into homosexuality so there is no way to "heal" from it. conversion therapy is pure quackery and it serves only one purpose and that it's too torture homosexuals into confirming to dark ages versions of Christianity.

I have no problem with spiritual healing, HOW DARE YOU shove such false words into my mouth.

I asked you several times what natural healing was and you havecompletely failed to answer that question.

I have also mentioned that homosexuality isn't something anybody needs to be healed from. I don't buy for a moment that it is asymptom of abuse or rape, youhaven't made that case, you have purposely avoided that statement.

I am going to continue to post these statements you avoid and call you out on false claims until you adress them and stop making them.

 

[Inevitable]

If a show of hands isn't an appropriate way to determine mental illness, than they were wrong in the 50s for using that method to add homosexuality to the list of mental illnesses.

ALL sin is a mental lliness of poor non-thinking choice!!!

According to you. Most people now, no longer view it that way.

Your constant references to God are getting quite annoying.

Don't bother with the bible thumpers, there is no knowledge to be gained.

 

[Inevitable]

​

A show of hands is hardly scientific - if you were to Take a room full of crackheads and by a show of hands determine that Crack is good and natural - you could by "popular vote" legalize crack.

Back in the 70s - that's excatly what was perpetraed by the APA - they ignored science and by a show hands [and only a very slim majority at that] they basically made the determination that "Crack is good" and the crackheads proceeded to blatanty moonshine the once sane society with their cracks .



Demonic possession huh ? Okay - lets go with that - . Some modern philosophers and theologians describe demons as a manifestation of the dark side of the Human Psyche. So using that definition - yes you could conceivably say that Homosexuality is the equivalent of Demonic Possession.



Please elaborate - that statement could be taken into any point on the intellectual compass .



Is a crackhead or alcoholic inferior to a sober person ? In the respect that they have no control over their substance abuse issues - Yes.

In other respects SOME are superior - Truman Capote, a great author whom I had the pleasure of meeting on Long Island many years ago. He was an alocoholic as well as an abuser of other substances and he was also a rabid foaming at the mouth queer - but to try and claim myself superior to him in the writing realm would be a joke -to try and claim myself superior to him as a human being is very credible..




Someones worth - outside of their sexal degeneracy is hardly based on who they fancy .
Homosexuality is a self destructive mental issue - arrested sexual development .It is un natural, unhealthy and un-neccessaryact of perverted sexual gratification - no different from pedophillia, beastiality, necrophillia, or other assorted dementias .

If that's how you envision the future then perhaps they should designate a section of the planet for the esclusive use of the perverts - far away from sane people - How's Anarctica sound?

If a show of hands isn't an appropriate way to determine mental illness, than they were wrong in the 50s for using that method to add homosexuality to the list of mental illnesses.

ALL sin is a mental lliness of poor non-thinking choice!!!

you haven't a slightest clue what you are even talking about. Your garbage doesn't deserve to be addressed.

 

[GISMYS]

THE "RESULT" OF SIN

A. ONE RESULT OF SIN IS "SPIRITUAL DEATH"...
1. The death referred to by God when He warned Adam & Eve - Gen
2:15-17
a. Note: "...for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou
shalt surely die."
b. They did not die "physically" in the day they ate of the
forbidden fruit, but they did die "spiritually" in that day
2. "Spiritual" death is "separation from God"
a. Death of any sort involves the idea of "separation"
b. Just as physical death is the separation of body and spirit
- Jm 2:26
3. "Spiritual" death is what occurs when all sin - Ro 5:12
a. It occurs when we reach that "age of accountability" where
we know the difference between right and wrong, and then
violate God's law - cf. Ro 7:9
b. This is the "death" referred to in Ep 2:1-3
1) All who are outside of Christ are "dead in sin"
2) Those who are "dead in sin" are separated from God and
all the blessings that would otherwise come from union
with Him - cf. Isa 59:1-2

B. ANOTHER RESULT OF SIN IS "PHYSICAL DEATH"...
1. Because of their sin, Adam and Even lost access to the "tree of
life" - Gen 3:22-24
2. Because access to the "tree of life" was lost, all mankind is
subject to "physical" death - "in Adam all die" (1Co 15:22a)

C. THE FINAL RESULT OF SIN IS THE "SECOND DEATH"...
1. This death is referred to in Re 21:8
2. This "death" involves eternal separation from God!
3. This "death" Jesus often spoke of and warned about - Mt 10:28;
25:41-46

[Truly, in more than one sense, "the wages of sin is death" (Ro 6:23);
but the same can be said about "the gift of eternal life"! No matter
what the result of sin, the promise of eternal life more than makes up
for it!]

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear GreenBean: Thanks for the effort and post to get the thread back on topic.

I still argue it is more a SPIRITUAL manifestation, as part of the process of resolving karma.

So I agree with you it is NOT solely genetic
(though the HIGH 50% match in orientation in twins is still interpreted as showing a TENDENCY even though the lack of 100% match means it is not solely genetic)

But do NOT agree it is necessarily a "mental illness or mental disorder,"
NOT UNLESS someone has been successfully treated as such and reports it as such.

The people I know who benefited from therapy and changed their behavior/relationships
refer more to SPIRITUAL issues and changes they went through, NOT MENTAL ILLNESS.

[MENTION=46353]GreenBean[/MENTION] if you can find such people who AGREE it is Mental Illness to them because this approach helped them "recover" then fine,
I accept whatever description people use for their own experiences.

Can you cite cases of people who DESCRIBE THEMSELVES and THEIR EXPERIENCES as "Mental Illness"?
And who benefited from this approach? If it works for people, fine. Can you find references to people saying they have a "Mental Illness",
and compare how common this description is in relation to the number of people who describe their experiences as a "spiritual change" or as either a "choice"/"not a choice"?

The APA lists no known causes for homosexual, thoughthere are some hypotheses. What do you think and why?

As with all threads this one seems to have wandered off in 15 different directions -

The OP : Is homosexuality a choice, a mental illness or something simply inherent?

Point 1 - Is it inerited ?. ] Inherent = Genetic , Something One is Born With.

A.}No Valid argument nor viable theory exists to suggest that Homosexuality is inherited or something one is born with -nearly all factual data to date indicates it is an acquired trait - although through no fault of the victims [Gays] - it is believed to be [In most cases] the result of Early Childhood Trauma. Study after Study by unbiased and objective researchers adds weight to this argument continuoslly.

One 1992 study found that 37% of homosexual and bisexual men attending sexually transmitted disease clinics had been encouraged or forced to have sexual contact before age 19 with an older or more powerful partner. The median age of first contact was 10 years old. - Multiple Aspects of Sexual Orientation: Prevalence and Sociodemographic Correlates in a New Zealand National Survey

Self-reported childhood and adolescent sexual abuse among adult homosexual bisexual men.

The Twin Studies :

Eight major studies of identical twins in Australia, the U.S., and Scandinavia during the last two decades all arrive at the same conclusion: gays were not born that way.

Identical twin studies prove homosexuality is not genetic

However Geneics is quite possibly a minor factor in determining ones susceptibility to the Mental illness or Homosexuality.

So therefore - back to the OP - YES - Homosexuality is a choice , not allways a consious choice - and certainly never an intelligent one - but a choice none the less.

Is it Inherited ? -NO - No scientific data exists that would supprot that argument It is not INherited - allthough susceptibility to it may have minor genetic correlation.


Point 2.] Is it a Mental Illness .

Homosexuality is an unhealthy and self destructive mental condition- harmful not only to the homosexuals themselves, but society as a whole. The strongest argument the gay activists have for not considering Homosexuality to be an illness is the fact that the APA removed it from their DSM - list of Menatl Illnesses back in the 70s - but that move has been proven over and over and over again to be a political move with no scientific basis of fact , nor even plausible theory to support it's no longer being considered a Mental Ilness .

Even the Author of the Motion to have it de-listed Dr. Nicholas Cummings, has stated that the motion he wrote back in the 70s was a grave mistake - and that data since that time has indeed proven it is a Mental Illness that can and has been treated successfully.

The APA itself has prettyy close to zero credibility in the scientific community , although their political clout is tremendous and devestating to the careers of all who oppose them or their socio-fascist political agenda.


POINT 1 - Is it Inherited -NO
POINT 2 - Is it a Mental Ilness - YES

So long as nobody has any plausible intelligent facts to present to the contrary - I do believe we can consider this matter closed .

???? What? How can this be closed?
When the APA and other medical professionals, psychiatric and therapy practictioners,
and all the public, including the pro-gay and anti-gay communities ALL AGREE,
then MAYBE we can consider it closed.

We are not there yet. But because the controversy over "conversion therapy" pushed this issue into the public arena, we could push for a consensus using all the research and case studies out there.

I am guessing the stats will show diversity in people:
* some people report it is a "choice" to them, social lifestyle, or preference
* sometimes it is "how people are" - cannot change and not a choice
* some report having spiritual purposes to help others understand things more deeply

Not all people will give the same answers in describing themselves and relationships.

GreenBean: Why isn't it okay to have multiple answers for different people?
In some cases "math skills" or "musical skills" are inherently born as a natural gift.
In some cases they are acquired skills.

Are you okay with the concept of "spiritually" being born / incarnated in certain ways,
so that people have certain relationships in life with certain people?

Does that make you uncomfortable?
Why can't it be a spiritual process that decides these things,
who is born in what body, with which relationships or "soul-mates"
and what things change or don't change in life?

I've heard people complain that God/Religion is used to "explain" what people are afraid of or don't understand.

Is all this hangup about genetics vs. mental illness
some fear of addressing the "spiritual karma" that may be determining what's going on?
Or the fact "we don't know"?
Is that so disturbing that people must play with scientific explanations
to try to write this off as either "genetic" or a "mental disorder"
to file it in a box somewhere?

Why can't we be okay with people being different for different reasons?
Some may be natural or unnatural but not all are the same.
Anything wrong with that? Is that just too disturbing that
we HAVE to make it ALL THE SAME to file it in our brains under one blanket rule?

Thanks GreenBean but we need to be careful not to make the "equal and opposite" mistake as the people we criticize for going too far the other way, thinking it's true for everyone.

 

[emilynghiem]

Yes, [MENTION=42952]GISMYS[/MENTION] "spiritual death" also includes "spiritual change" which
opens the door to "new birth and new life"

Let us put aside the old ways of conflict, of insisting our way is right and others are wrong, and open up to receive insights and solutions that show everyone can be equally right.
And all of us can help each other correct places we were equally wrong. Let us be equal, where we establish common truth by agreement, by conscience and reason.

THE "RESULT" OF SIN

A. ONE RESULT OF SIN IS "SPIRITUAL DEATH"...
1. The death referred to by God when He warned Adam & Eve - Gen
2:15-17
a. Note: "...for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou
shalt surely die."
b. They did not die "physically" in the day they ate of the
forbidden fruit, but they did die "spiritually" in that day
2. "Spiritual" death is "separation from God"
a. Death of any sort involves the idea of "separation"
b. Just as physical death is the separation of body and spirit
- Jm 2:26
3. "Spiritual" death is what occurs when all sin - Ro 5:12
a. It occurs when we reach that "age of accountability" where
we know the difference between right and wrong, and then
violate God's law - cf. Ro 7:9
b. This is the "death" referred to in Ep 2:1-3
1) All who are outside of Christ are "dead in sin"
2) Those who are "dead in sin" are separated from God and
all the blessings that would otherwise come from union
with Him - cf. Isa 59:1-2

B. ANOTHER RESULT OF SIN IS "PHYSICAL DEATH"...
1. Because of their sin, Adam and Even lost access to the "tree of
life" - Gen 3:22-24
2. Because access to the "tree of life" was lost, all mankind is
subject to "physical" death - "in Adam all die" (1Co 15:22a)

C. THE FINAL RESULT OF SIN IS THE "SECOND DEATH"...
1. This death is referred to in Re 21:8
2. This "death" involves eternal separation from God!
3. This "death" Jesus often spoke of and warned about - Mt 10:28;
25:41-46

[Truly, in more than one sense, "the wages of sin is death" (Ro 6:23);
but the same can be said about "the gift of eternal life"! No matter
what the result of sin, the promise of eternal life more than makes up
for it!]

 

[GISMYS]

Yes, [MENTION=42952]GISMYS[/MENTION] "spiritual death" also includes "spiritual change" which
opens the door to "new birth and new life"

Let us put aside the old ways of conflict, of insisting our way is right and others are wrong, and open up to receive insights and solutions that show everyone can be equally right.
And all of us can help each other correct places we were equally wrong. Let us be equal, where we establish common truth by agreement, by conscience and reason.

THE "RESULT" OF SIN

A. ONE RESULT OF SIN IS "SPIRITUAL DEATH"...
1. The death referred to by God when He warned Adam & Eve - Gen
2:15-17
a. Note: "...for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou
shalt surely die."
b. They did not die "physically" in the day they ate of the
forbidden fruit, but they did die "spiritually" in that day
2. "Spiritual" death is "separation from God"
a. Death of any sort involves the idea of "separation"
b. Just as physical death is the separation of body and spirit
- Jm 2:26
3. "Spiritual" death is what occurs when all sin - Ro 5:12
a. It occurs when we reach that "age of accountability" where
we know the difference between right and wrong, and then
violate God's law - cf. Ro 7:9
b. This is the "death" referred to in Ep 2:1-3
1) All who are outside of Christ are "dead in sin"
2) Those who are "dead in sin" are separated from God and
all the blessings that would otherwise come from union
with Him - cf. Isa 59:1-2

B. ANOTHER RESULT OF SIN IS "PHYSICAL DEATH"...
1. Because of their sin, Adam and Even lost access to the "tree of
life" - Gen 3:22-24
2. Because access to the "tree of life" was lost, all mankind is
subject to "physical" death - "in Adam all die" (1Co 15:22a)

C. THE FINAL RESULT OF SIN IS THE "SECOND DEATH"...
1. This death is referred to in Re 21:8
2. This "death" involves eternal separation from God!
3. This "death" Jesus often spoke of and warned about - Mt 10:28;
25:41-46

[Truly, in more than one sense, "the wages of sin is death" (Ro 6:23);
but the same can be said about "the gift of eternal life"! No matter
what the result of sin, the promise of eternal life more than makes up
for it!]

"""spiritual death" also includes "spiritual change" which
opens the door to "ETERNITY IN THE LAKE OF FIRE"
""

 

[emilynghiem]

the best book on natural healing is
"The Healing Light" by Agnes Sanford

She describes natural healing energy in life as the flow of electricity through a house.
So we have to make sure the power source is turned on, and the circuit is continuous and not disrupted.

If the electricity isn't flowing, we check for what is causing that, so we can restore it.

what is 'natural healing'?

when life energy flows through the human mind/body to "heal themselves"

if we have too much stress, or hold on to unforgiven resentment, this blocks the flow of energy
through our minds and affects our bodies, and our relationships. if we weaken our natural ability
to heal, this causes unhealthy imbalance or disease that our mind/body ideally would eliminate on its own.
(some people are able to shed cancer cells on their own, but if the body holds on to resentment or
unforgiven blockages, cancer cells can build up in areas of the body more excessively than what can be naturally shed)

to remove "blocks to healing" to open up the flow of life energy
the therapy involves identifying areas of unforgiven issues/memories or unresolved conflicts,
in the mind or spirit (from this life or possibly inherited unconsciously from previous generations in a cycle);
and going through whatever process the person needs to remove/forgive/let go of these blocks in their mind or spirit.
(they can use 12 step recovery, steps to forgiveness, or for deeper rooted causes in unconscious levels,
karmic regression therapy or deliverance prayer can be used for generational issues.

Once the causes of blockage are identified and removed by agreeing/praying to receive forgiveness and healing,
then the natural flow of life energy is restored, and this healing is reflected in changes in the spirit, mind, body and even relationships with other people.

(What I find curious about the healing process is the connection with other people.
A mother praying to forgive and heal issues with her own mother, may lead to her child healing as a result.
My friend Olivia who prayed for a young child with cancer, was not able to help her in time to save her from dying,
but the entire family who forgave each other were healed, because they were trying to save the child, and instead healed themselves.)

Examples: I already listed references to generational/deliverance prayer (http://www.spiritual-healing.us)
[MENTION=49586]Inevitable[/MENTION] if you don't related to those methods,
other related forms of healing from past influences "carried in the spirit" include:
* Buddhist past life regression therapy to identify areas of negative karma and let go
* Healing dialogue groups facilitated by the Center for the Healing of Racism which help remediate painful racial injuries, perceptions and biases deeply embedded and passed down spiritually, but using a secularized method of guided discussion to identify the root memories and sharing with the group to "release" the emotions attached to each one
* 17 steps to Forgiveness
Steps to Forgiveness

All these work by the same process, of forgiveness to facilitate the natural healing process.
(But for the DEEPLY engrained conditions, like schizophrenic people whose personalities are completely taken over by "demonic voices and obsessions," that level is addressed using exorcism and deliverance, and I do not know of any other method that works on truly demonic sickness that overtakes the mind of people where they cannot will it away. Because there are so many false faith healers and fraudulent practices out there, the ONLY people I recommend personally for deliverance/exorcism are my friend Olivia Reiner, who used this to help one of my friends get rid of demonic rages caused by child abuse and rape, and Dr. MacNutt's ministry whose book on HEALING explains the difference between personal prayer that most people do on their own, intercessory prayer, and the deliverance/exorcism prayer that is only for special cases. For those two people, I trust and refer them for formal medical research studies on this field and method of treatment.)