Is Israel the Same as South Africa?

[Kondor3]

Why

Upon Independence the land was named Israel, that's why.

Independence from whom?

From any other power on earth - or any claimant to the land they held.

 

[Kondor3]

So... when are the Jewish Wolverines leaving Jerusalem?

When occupied California is returned to Mexico.

Which happens right after Manhattan Island is returned to its Lenape native owners...

 

[RoccoR]

Sweet_Caroline, P F Tinmore, et al,

This is the big Palestinian circle. It is a frivolous argument they use in support of their Covenant and Charter to alter or discredit historical facts as a means to justify Jihad and armed insurrection.

• Article 13 of Covenant: Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.
• Article 20 of Charter: The Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate, and everything that has been based on them, are deemed null and void.

I think you ought to read this.
Israeli Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

OK, I did.

The Avalon Project : Declaration of Israel's Independence 1948

There is nothing in either of those that mention any acquisition of land or defining any borders.

The Avalon Project?

(REFERENCES)

• UN Security Council Resolution 242
• Map to UN Security Council Resolution 242
• General Assembly Resolution 181(II)
• Map to General Assembly 181(II)
• Israeli Declaration of Independence

(COMMENT)

This is a fruitless argument. It cannot by discussed in good faith with Palestinians. Both the Covenant and the Charter stipulate that the process by which the State of Israel (or any of the other surrounding Arab States) is unsound and invalid.

The boundary issue was a dilemma created by the Palestinian and the Arab League armies. The Arab League attacked the newly declared State of Israel immediately upon its Declaration of Independence. In the ensuing struggle (an elective trial by combat initiated upon the aggression of the five participating Arab States) with some of the territory annotated as being allotted to the future Arab State [Part II, Section A, GA/RES/181(II)] being overrun by Israeli forces in pursuit of retreating Arab forces beaten back by defenders. Thus, the original allocation for the Jewish State [outlined in Part II, Section B, GA/RES/181(II)] was expanded under Israeli control. This was to set by the Armistice Lines.

All this Palestinian rhetoric about borders and boundaries is merely subterfuge and quibbling to give them some justification for the Jihad, which by their own admission starts with the "emergence of the martyr Izz al-Din al Qassam [(1882 – 20 November 1935)( leader in the fight against British, French, and Zionist organizations in the Levant in the 1920s and 1930s and his brethren the fighters, members of Moslem Brotherhood")] (Article 7, of the Covenant). If the Hostile Arab Palestinian had not opened the conflict, it would not even be an issue. Their claim that all of Palestine (which they define as within "the boundaries it had during the British Mandate") "is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the greater Arab homeland," is the cornerstone to their pursuit of conflict (Articles 1 & 2 of Charter). This is in direct defiance of the General Assembly - in contravention of the Jewish right to self-determination, and ignores the original intention for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. It has been further used consistently to justify terrorist activity for more the half a century.

All this nonsense about an invasion by foreigners from Europe, is again, in direct defiance of the intention of lawful immigration processes established by the League of Nations and the Allied Powers (successors under treaty) to the establishment of a Jewish Nation Home.

Oddly enough, both Yassar Arafat and Abu Mazen recognized and used GA/RES/181(II) to, first establish the State of Palestine, and then to request admission to the UN, which they, by means of direct action and policy (Charter and Covenant) openly defy.

This is a no-win argument. You cannot intelligently discuss the merits of the situation, and the conditions on the ground, if you cannot even get the Palestinians to agree on the basics beyond the chaotic and frivolous claims about borders and maps; or even, who is the legitimate government for the Palestinian people.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

Sweet_Caroline, P F Tinmore, et al,

This is the big Palestinian circle. It is a frivolous argument they use in support of their Covenant and Charter to alter or discredit historical facts as a means to justify Jihad and armed insurrection.

• Article 13 of Covenant: Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.
• Article 20 of Charter: The Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate, and everything that has been based on them, are deemed null and void.

OK, I did.

The Avalon Project : Declaration of Israel's Independence 1948

There is nothing in either of those that mention any acquisition of land or defining any borders.

The Avalon Project?

(REFERENCES)

• UN Security Council Resolution 242
• Map to UN Security Council Resolution 242
• General Assembly Resolution 181(II)
• Map to General Assembly 181(II)
• Israeli Declaration of Independence

(COMMENT)

This is a fruitless argument. It cannot by discussed in good faith with Palestinians. Both the Covenant and the Charter stipulate that the process by which the State of Israel (or any of the other surrounding Arab States) is unsound and invalid.

The boundary issue was a dilemma created by the Palestinian and the Arab League armies. The Arab League attacked the newly declared State of Israel immediately upon its Declaration of Independence. In the ensuing struggle (an elective trial by combat initiated upon the aggression of the five participating Arab States) with some of the territory annotated as being allotted to the future Arab State [Part II, Section A, GA/RES/181(II)] being overrun by Israeli forces in pursuit of retreating Arab forces beaten back by defenders. Thus, the original allocation for the Jewish State [outlined in Part II, Section B, GA/RES/181(II)] was expanded under Israeli control. This was to set by the Armistice Lines.

All this Palestinian rhetoric about borders and boundaries is merely subterfuge and quibbling to give them some justification for the Jihad, which by their own admission starts with the "emergence of the martyr Izz al-Din al Qassam [(1882 – 20 November 1935)( leader in the fight against British, French, and Zionist organizations in the Levant in the 1920s and 1930s and his brethren the fighters, members of Moslem Brotherhood")] (Article 7, of the Covenant). If the Hostile Arab Palestinian had not opened the conflict, it would not even be an issue. Their claim that all of Palestine (which they define as within "the boundaries it had during the British Mandate") "is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the greater Arab homeland," is the cornerstone to their pursuit of conflict (Articles 1 & 2 of Charter). This is in direct defiance of the General Assembly - in contravention of the Jewish right to self-determination, and ignores the original intention for the establishment of a Jewish National Home. It has been further used consistently to justify terrorist activity for more the half a century.

All this nonsense about an invasion by foreigners from Europe, is again, in direct defiance of the intention of lawful immigration processes established by the League of Nations and the Allied Powers (successors under treaty) to the establishment of a Jewish Nation Home.

Oddly enough, both Yassar Arafat and Abu Mazen recognized and used GA/RES/181(II) to, first establish the State of Palestine, and then to request admission to the UN, which they, by means of direct action and policy (Charter and Covenant) openly defy.

This is a no-win argument. You cannot intelligently discuss the merits of the situation, and the conditions on the ground, if you cannot even get the Palestinians to agree on the basics beyond the chaotic and frivolous claims about borders and maps; or even, who is the legitimate government for the Palestinian people.

Most Respectfully,
R

I fear that will be too complicated for Tinmore to understand and yet again we will be going round in circles.

 

[georgephillip]

So... when are the Jewish Wolverines leaving Jerusalem?

When occupied California is returned to Mexico.

Point out the Apartheid Wall in California and practice your back-stroke.

 

[Kondor3]

"...I fear that will be too complicated for Tinmore to understand and yet again we will be going round in circles."

Even if he IS capable of absorbing the complexities of the case, he will reject the case, because it conflicts with the multi-generational delusion under which so-called Palestinians operate in their Alternative Universe.

 

[docmauser1]

So... when are the Jewish Wolverines leaving Jerusalem?

When occupied California is returned to Mexico.

Point out the Apartheid Wall in California and practice your back-stroke.

So, when is occupied California, which our honorable georgephillip occupies without paying rent to the govt. of Mexico, being returned to the latter?

 

[Kondor3]

So... when are the Jewish Wolverines leaving Jerusalem?

When occupied California is returned to Mexico.

Point out the Apartheid Wall in California and practice your back-stroke.

That's not an Apartheid Wall.

That's an Anti-Suicide-Bomber Wall...

And Pest-Control Barrier...

 

[Hoffstra]

That's not an Apartheid Wall.

That's an Anti-Suicide-Bomber Wall...

And Pest-Control Barrier...

Just like how the Nazis used a pesticide, Zyklon B, to kill Jews.

birds of a feather flock together, huh Kondor?

 

[Kondor3]

That's not an Apartheid Wall.

That's an Anti-Suicide-Bomber Wall...

And Pest-Control Barrier...

Just like how the Nazis used a pesticide, Zyklon B, to kill Jews.

birds of a feather flock together, huh Kondor?

As I recall, the Jews were not suicide-bombing the Nazis and lobbing rockets at them...

And, as I recall, the Jews were not free to leave for greener pastures, like the Palestinians are...

Wake me up when the Jews start packing-off Palestinians to Extermination Camps and gassing them and cremating them by the hundreds of thousands...

Until then, you're going to have a hard time, selling that sort of faux analogy...

You'll have to do better than that...

 

[georgephillip]

When occupied California is returned to Mexico.

Point out the Apartheid Wall in California and practice your back-stroke.

That's not an Apartheid Wall.

That's an Anti-Suicide-Bomber Wall...

And Pest-Control Barrier...

If 650,000 pests don't inflict their nation upon twice as many Arabs in 1948, there's no wall or apartheid in Palestine today.

 

[Kondor3]

"...If 650,000 pests don't inflict their nation upon twice as many Arabs in 1948, there's no wall or apartheid in Palestine today."

Not to worry...

According to the Palestinian's own propaganda maps, there won't BE a 'Palestine' in a few years...

And then all this goes away...

As the so-called 'Palestinians' disperse into Jordan, Lebanon, etc., forevermore...

Vae victus...

Problem solved...

 

[docmauser1]

If 650,000 pests don't inflict their nation upon twice as many Arabs in 1948, there's no wall or apartheid in Palestine today.

twice as many Arabs! Damn, palistanians are such major immigrants.

 

[georgephillip]

"...If 650,000 pests don't inflict their nation upon twice as many Arabs in 1948, there's no wall or apartheid in Palestine today."

Not to worry...

According to the Palestinian's own propaganda maps, there won't BE a 'Palestine' in a few years...

And then all this goes away...

As the so-called 'Palestinians' disperse into Jordan, Lebanon, etc., forevermore...

Vae victus...

Problem solved...

Hitler would approve.

 

[Kondor3]

"...Hitler would approve."

So would Muhammed, or Suleiman or Salah al din or Tariq ibn-Ziyad or Mehmed II or any of scores (hundreds) of other Muslim and Arab military conquerors of other peoples' lands...

Fun, ain't it?

None of which addresses the very real premise that your side is running out of land, and out of time...

Tick, tick, tick...

 

[P F Tinmore]

The boundary issue was a dilemma created by the Palestinian and the Arab League armies. The Arab League attacked the newly declared State of Israel immediately upon its Declaration of Independence. In the ensuing struggle (an elective trial by combat initiated upon the aggression of the five participating Arab States) with some of the territory annotated as being allotted to the future Arab State [Part II, Section A, GA/RES/181(II)] being overrun by Israeli forces in pursuit of retreating Arab forces beaten back by defenders. Thus, the original allocation for the Jewish State [outlined in Part II, Section B, GA/RES/181(II)] was expanded under Israeli control. This was to set by the Armistice Lines.

Just another Israeli lie.

Israel was grabbing land beyond the proposed borders before any Arab country entered Palestine.

You should know that already, Rocco.

 

[Bloodrock44]

A double curse on this thread! 950 responses and not one thing accomplished nor has Israel given up one inch of ground. Let it die already for Chrissakes!

 

[toastman]

Indeed, that is true. The Messiah is to call his people to the promised land, not a bunch of criminals out of Europe.

Very nice of you to call a bunch of persecuted Jews , who had JUST lost 6 000 000 of their family members, a bunch of criminals. I don't ever bring up the Holocaust or play the victim card, but this comment was just disgusting.
You should take it back please.

They lost 6,000,000 members in 1917?

Obviously I was talking about the Zionist immigration post WW 2. I guess you weren't

 

[Kondor3]

"...Just another Israeli lie..."

Or another Palestinian one, which seems just as likely, if not more...

 

[P F Tinmore]

Oddly enough, both Yassar Arafat and Abu Mazen recognized and used GA/RES/181(II)...

Both were installed in Palestine by foreign powers to be the leaders of Palestine.