Is Israel the Same as South Africa?

[RoccoR]

Hoffstra, et al,

When evaluating this, it must be done on two levels:

• Comparative analysis:
  • The evaluation of Law (civil and human rights) with respect to Israeli Citizens of Arab Decent living in Israel.
  • The evaluation of Law (civil and human rights) with respect to non-Israeli Citizens of Arab Decent living in Israel.
  • The evaluation of Law (civil and human rights) with respect to non-Israeli Citizens of Arab Decent living in Israel.
• The Elements of Crime of "Apartheid" must be consistent with this Statute.

when it comes to civil and human rights, Israel is much WORSE than South Africa.

(OBSERVATION)

"The crime of apartheid" means inhumane acts of a character similar to those referred to in paragraph 1, committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime;

SOURCE: PART 2. JURISDICTION, ADMISSIBILITY AND APPLICABLE LAW RS-ICC

Inhumane acts of a character similar to those referred to in paragraph 1:

• (a) Murder;
• (b) Extermination;
• (c) Enslavement;
• (d) Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
• (e) Imprisonment or other severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of fundamental rules of international law;
• (f) Torture;
• (g) Rape, sexual slavery, enforced prostitution, forced pregnancy, enforced sterilization, or any other form of sexual violence of comparable gravity;
• (h) Persecution against any identifiable group or collectivity on political, racial, national, ethnic, cultural, religious, gender as defined in paragraph 3, or other grounds that are universally recognized as impermissible under international law, in connection with any act referred to in this paragraph or any crime within the jurisdiction of the Court;
• (i) Enforced disappearance of persons;
• (j) The crime of apartheid;
• (k) Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health.

Committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination;

• Oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups;
  --------------------> AND <--------------------
• Committed with the intention of maintaining that regime;

(COMMENT)

Domestic Considerations as a comparison.

First, I don't subscribed to the Arab-Palestinian position that there is any form of discrimination based on race (one racial group over any other racial group). There is no substantive evidence that there is any discrimination with respect to Israeli Citizens of Jewish Decent and that of Israeli Citizens Arab Decent, living in Israel.

Second, I don't subscribed to the Arab-Palestinian position that there is any form of oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group with respect to Israeli Citizens of Jewish Decent and that of Israeli Citizens Arab Decent, living in Israel.

Third, I don't subscribed to the Arab-Palestinian position that there is any substantive evidence of segregation or legal subjugation committed with respect to Israeli Citizens of Jewish Decent oppressing Israeli Citizens Arab Decent, living in Israel; with the intention of maintaining a regime Jewish supremacy or dominance.​

The allegation of "apartheid" is based primarily on the regiment of security concerns based on the Administration of the Occupied Territories. Thus, the complaint is that
there is substantive evidence of segregation or legal subjugation committed with respect to non-Israeli Citizens of Arab Decent that are NOT living in Israel (ie: The Occupied Territories). The argument theme is that the oppression and domination by the Occupation Force over the Arab Palestinian of the Occupied Territories is the equivalent of the oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group to maintain supremacy or dominance.

(PRIMA FACIE EVIDENCE)

General Policy:

• Article 9 Palestine National Charter of 1968: Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.
• Article 10 Palestine National Charter of 1968: Commando (Feday'ee) action constitutes the nucleus of the Palestinian popular liberation war.
• Article 13 The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) 18 August 1988: There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
• Article 15 The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) 18 August 1988: The day that enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem.

Specific Policy:

for Fatah, “resistance to Israel remains on our agenda.”

“I mean resistance in all of its forms,” he elaborated. “At this stage, we believe that popular resistance — with all that it entails — is effective and costly to the other side [Israel],” Rajoub said in the hour-long interview, which was highlighted by the watchdog group Palestinian Media Watch on Tuesday.

SOURCE: Top PA official: Israel ‘is our main enemy, resistance is still our agenda’

"The resistance may find itself forced to attack the enemy's interests and senior officials outside the occupied territory. It is incumbent upon the honorable countries to stand alongside the occupied Palestinian people and assist it in removing the obstacles that stand in its way. By doing so, they [will be acting] in accordance with the principle of the right of peoples to self-determination, and in accordance with international decisions condemning the occupation and encouraging resistance to it by all means.

"It is the right of the Palestinian resistance [to request that] the friendly Arab and Islamic peoples and governments open liaison offices in these arenas in order to recruit support, material and moral assistance, and even manpower assistance. Anyone claiming that he supports the Palestinian people while at the same time denying the resistance this right is making a specious argument.

"The Palestinian resistance may find at a certain stage that the path of martyrdom operations is more effective, and it must not rule out the use of any method that can inflict pain on the enemy and deter it. Friendly nations and countries must support the action of the resistance and must condemn the occupation. The resistance may find itself at a certain stage forced to damage the interests of the [Israeli] occupation's allies, and the parties that provide it with funds, arms, and media support. It is the resistance that will decide when to adopt this path, and how, when, and where.

SOURCE: SENIOR HAMAS OFFICIAL: THE RESISTANCE IS ENTITLED TO ATTACK ISRAEL'S EMBASSIES, INTERESTS, AND OFFICIALS WORLDWIDE -- AND THE INTERESTS OF ITS ALLIES, HEADED BY THE U.S.

(Supporting EVIDENCE)

Nothing can justify terrorism — ever. No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts.

SOURCE: Secretary-General SG/SM/14764 SC/10883

Article 2

The first use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression although the Security Council may, in conformity with the Charter, conclude that a determination that an act of aggression has been committed would not be justified in the light of other relevant circumstances, including the fact that the acts concerned or their consequences are not of sufficient gravity.

Every State likewise has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate international lines of demarcation, such as armistice lines, established by or pursuant to an international agreement to which it is a party or which it is otherwise bound to respect. Nothing in the foregoing shall be construed as prejudicing the
positions of the parties concerned with regard to the status and effects of such lines under their special regimes or as affecting their temporary character.

SOURCE: A/RES/3314(XXIX) 14 December 1974

To refrain from organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating terrorist activities and to take appropriate practical measures to ensure that our respective territories are not used for terrorist installations or training camps, or for the preparation or organization of terrorist acts intended to be committed against other States or their citizens.

SOURCE: Plan of Action (A/RES/60/288)

(COMMENT)

What the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) calls "apartheid," is the active suppression and quarantine of elements that pledged in the past, have demonstrated in the past and present, and continue in organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating, activities that threaten regional peace.

In the interest of peace and in the absents of a peace accord, the continued occupation of territory under the influence of HAMAS and FATAH is justified.

• To cooperate fully in the fight against terrorism, in accordance with our obligations under international law, in order to find, deny safe haven and bring to justice, on the basis of the principle of extradite or prosecute, any person who supports, facilitates, participates or attempts to participate in the financing, planning, preparation or perpetration of terrorist acts or provides safe havens.
  
• To ensure the apprehension and prosecution or extradition of perpetrators of terrorist acts, in accordance with the relevant provisions of national and international law, in particular human rights law, refugee law and international humanitarian law. We will endeavour to conclude and implement to that effect mutual judicial assistance and extradition agreements, and to strengthen cooperation between law enforcement agencies.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hoffstra]

Israel controls the land from the River to the Sea.

millions of people under their control, face daily discrimination against their civil and human rights.

 

[Kondor3]

when it comes to civil and human rights, Israel is much WORSE than South Africa.

Incorrect, or so I believe.

If my own modest reading on the subject serves me well enough in this instance, there seem to be few practical barriers to equality nowadays amongst Israeli citizens of Jewish, Muslim, Christian or other religious or non-religous professions.

Occupants of the West Bank and Gaza are not Israeli citizens, but, rather, citizens of an un-incorporated collection of fragmented territories that the Israelis granted autonomy or semi-autonomy to, some time ago, and which are failing, collectively, as a proto-State.

The Israelis separate themselves from foreigners, not Israeli citizens; foreigners who have been fighting them sporadically and lobbing rockets at them for decades; separating themselves from dangerous adversaries, as any sane people would.

In former times, the South Afrikaaners separated themselves from fellow citizens of another color, based soley upon race, who were not fighting or bombing them.

And, although the Israelis do, indeed, exact a terrible retribution against their Hostile Palestinian neighbors, after rounds of repeated rocket-bombing or suicide-bombing or guerrilla-incursions, this is directed against an unincorporated and extremely hostile foreign pseudo-polity; not their own.

Within the borders of Israel, it pays a very considerable attention in the present age, to striving for equality amongst all of its citizenry; as imperfect as that is, and, from what I hear and read, they appear to do a decent job of it.

 

[Kondor3]

Israel controls the land from the River to the Sea. millions of people under their control, face daily discrimination against their civil and human rights.

Those millions could have had their own country and durable peace at any point between 1948 and 1967, had they made sensible and practical and correct choices.

 

[Hossfly]

Hoffstra, et al,

When evaluating this, it must be done on two levels:

• Comparative analysis:
  • The evaluation of Law (civil and human rights) with respect to Israeli Citizens of Arab Decent living in Israel.
  • The evaluation of Law (civil and human rights) with respect to non-Israeli Citizens of Arab Decent living in Israel.
  • The evaluation of Law (civil and human rights) with respect to non-Israeli Citizens of Arab Decent living in Israel.
• The Elements of Crime of "Apartheid" must be consistent with this Statute.

when it comes to civil and human rights, Israel is much WORSE than South Africa.

(OBSERVATION)

"The crime of apartheid" means inhumane acts of a character similar to those referred to in paragraph 1, committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime;

SOURCE: PART 2. JURISDICTION, ADMISSIBILITY AND APPLICABLE LAW RS-ICC

Inhumane acts of a character similar to those referred to in paragraph 1:

• (a) Murder;
• (b) Extermination;
• (c) Enslavement;
• (d) Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
• (e) Imprisonment or other severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of fundamental rules of international law;
• (f) Torture;
• (g) Rape, sexual slavery, enforced prostitution, forced pregnancy, enforced sterilization, or any other form of sexual violence of comparable gravity;
• (h) Persecution against any identifiable group or collectivity on political, racial, national, ethnic, cultural, religious, gender as defined in paragraph 3, or other grounds that are universally recognized as impermissible under international law, in connection with any act referred to in this paragraph or any crime within the jurisdiction of the Court;
• (i) Enforced disappearance of persons;
• (j) The crime of apartheid;
• (k) Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health.

Committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination;

• Oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups;
  --------------------> AND <--------------------
• Committed with the intention of maintaining that regime;

(COMMENT)

Domestic Considerations as a comparison.

First, I don't subscribed to the Arab-Palestinian position that there is any form of discrimination based on race (one racial group over any other racial group). There is no substantive evidence that there is any discrimination with respect to Israeli Citizens of Jewish Decent and that of Israeli Citizens Arab Decent, living in Israel.

Second, I don't subscribed to the Arab-Palestinian position that there is any form of oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group with respect to Israeli Citizens of Jewish Decent and that of Israeli Citizens Arab Decent, living in Israel.

Third, I don't subscribed to the Arab-Palestinian position that there is any substantive evidence of segregation or legal subjugation committed with respect to Israeli Citizens of Jewish Decent oppressing Israeli Citizens Arab Decent, living in Israel; with the intention of maintaining a regime Jewish supremacy or dominance.​

The allegation of "apartheid" is based primarily on the regiment of security concerns based on the Administration of the Occupied Territories. Thus, the complaint is that
there is substantive evidence of segregation or legal subjugation committed with respect to non-Israeli Citizens of Arab Decent that are NOT living in Israel (ie: The Occupied Territories). The argument theme is that the oppression and domination by the Occupation Force over the Arab Palestinian of the Occupied Territories is the equivalent of the oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group to maintain supremacy or dominance.

(PRIMA FACIE EVIDENCE)

General Policy:

• Article 9 Palestine National Charter of 1968: Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.
• Article 10 Palestine National Charter of 1968: Commando (Feday'ee) action constitutes the nucleus of the Palestinian popular liberation war.
• Article 13 The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) 18 August 1988: There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
• Article 15 The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) 18 August 1988: The day that enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem.

Specific Policy:




(Supporting EVIDENCE)

Article 2

The first use of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression although the Security Council may, in conformity with the Charter, conclude that a determination that an act of aggression has been committed would not be justified in the light of other relevant circumstances, including the fact that the acts concerned or their consequences are not of sufficient gravity.



SOURCE: A/RES/3314(XXIX) 14 December 1974

To refrain from organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating terrorist activities and to take appropriate practical measures to ensure that our respective territories are not used for terrorist installations or training camps, or for the preparation or organization of terrorist acts intended to be committed against other States or their citizens.

SOURCE: Plan of Action (A/RES/60/288)

(COMMENT)

What the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) calls "apartheid," is the active suppression and quarantine of elements that pledged in the past, have demonstrated in the past and present, and continue in organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating, activities that threaten regional peace.

In the interest of peace and in the absents of a peace accord, the continued occupation of territory under the influence of HAMAS and FATAH is justified.

• To cooperate fully in the fight against terrorism, in accordance with our obligations under international law, in order to find, deny safe haven and bring to justice, on the basis of the principle of extradite or prosecute, any person who supports, facilitates, participates or attempts to participate in the financing, planning, preparation or perpetration of terrorist acts or provides safe havens.
  
• To ensure the apprehension and prosecution or extradition of perpetrators of terrorist acts, in accordance with the relevant provisions of national and international law, in particular human rights law, refugee law and international humanitarian law. We will endeavour to conclude and implement to that effect mutual judicial assistance and extradition agreements, and to strengthen cooperation between law enforcement agencies.

Most Respectfully,
R

Just from my observation:

Toastman, Condor, Roudy, I and the rest will absorb and heed your advice.

Theliq, Indofreud, Sunni and others of their stripe are teachable.

Hoffstra and Saigoon know everything under the sun and can't and won't learn anything more.

Tinmore, well, what can I say.

 

[toastman]

Hoffstra, et al,

When evaluating this, it must be done on two levels:

• Comparative analysis:
  • The evaluation of Law (civil and human rights) with respect to Israeli Citizens of Arab Decent living in Israel.
  • The evaluation of Law (civil and human rights) with respect to non-Israeli Citizens of Arab Decent living in Israel.
  • The evaluation of Law (civil and human rights) with respect to non-Israeli Citizens of Arab Decent living in Israel.
• The Elements of Crime of "Apartheid" must be consistent with this Statute.

when it comes to civil and human rights, Israel is much WORSE than South Africa.

(OBSERVATION)

Inhumane acts of a character similar to those referred to in paragraph 1:

• (a) Murder;
• (b) Extermination;
• (c) Enslavement;
• (d) Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
• (e) Imprisonment or other severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of fundamental rules of international law;
• (f) Torture;
• (g) Rape, sexual slavery, enforced prostitution, forced pregnancy, enforced sterilization, or any other form of sexual violence of comparable gravity;
• (h) Persecution against any identifiable group or collectivity on political, racial, national, ethnic, cultural, religious, gender as defined in paragraph 3, or other grounds that are universally recognized as impermissible under international law, in connection with any act referred to in this paragraph or any crime within the jurisdiction of the Court;
• (i) Enforced disappearance of persons;
• (j) The crime of apartheid;
• (k) Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health.

Committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination;

• Oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups;
  --------------------> AND <--------------------
• Committed with the intention of maintaining that regime;

(COMMENT)

Domestic Considerations as a comparison.

First, I don't subscribed to the Arab-Palestinian position that there is any form of discrimination based on race (one racial group over any other racial group). There is no substantive evidence that there is any discrimination with respect to Israeli Citizens of Jewish Decent and that of Israeli Citizens Arab Decent, living in Israel.

Second, I don't subscribed to the Arab-Palestinian position that there is any form of oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group with respect to Israeli Citizens of Jewish Decent and that of Israeli Citizens Arab Decent, living in Israel.

Third, I don't subscribed to the Arab-Palestinian position that there is any substantive evidence of segregation or legal subjugation committed with respect to Israeli Citizens of Jewish Decent oppressing Israeli Citizens Arab Decent, living in Israel; with the intention of maintaining a regime Jewish supremacy or dominance.​

The allegation of "apartheid" is based primarily on the regiment of security concerns based on the Administration of the Occupied Territories. Thus, the complaint is that
there is substantive evidence of segregation or legal subjugation committed with respect to non-Israeli Citizens of Arab Decent that are NOT living in Israel (ie: The Occupied Territories). The argument theme is that the oppression and domination by the Occupation Force over the Arab Palestinian of the Occupied Territories is the equivalent of the oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group to maintain supremacy or dominance.

(PRIMA FACIE EVIDENCE)

General Policy:

• Article 9 Palestine National Charter of 1968: Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.
• Article 10 Palestine National Charter of 1968: Commando (Feday'ee) action constitutes the nucleus of the Palestinian popular liberation war.
• Article 13 The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) 18 August 1988: There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
• Article 15 The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) 18 August 1988: The day that enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem.

Specific Policy:




(Supporting EVIDENCE)

To refrain from organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating terrorist activities and to take appropriate practical measures to ensure that our respective territories are not used for terrorist installations or training camps, or for the preparation or organization of terrorist acts intended to be committed against other States or their citizens.

SOURCE: Plan of Action (A/RES/60/288)

(COMMENT)

What the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) calls "apartheid," is the active suppression and quarantine of elements that pledged in the past, have demonstrated in the past and present, and continue in organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating, activities that threaten regional peace.

In the interest of peace and in the absents of a peace accord, the continued occupation of territory under the influence of HAMAS and FATAH is justified.

• To cooperate fully in the fight against terrorism, in accordance with our obligations under international law, in order to find, deny safe haven and bring to justice, on the basis of the principle of extradite or prosecute, any person who supports, facilitates, participates or attempts to participate in the financing, planning, preparation or perpetration of terrorist acts or provides safe havens.
  
• To ensure the apprehension and prosecution or extradition of perpetrators of terrorist acts, in accordance with the relevant provisions of national and international law, in particular human rights law, refugee law and international humanitarian law. We will endeavour to conclude and implement to that effect mutual judicial assistance and extradition agreements, and to strengthen cooperation between law enforcement agencies.

Most Respectfully,
R

Just from my observation:

Toastman, Condor, Roudy, I and the rest will absorb and heed your advice.

Theliq, Indofreud, Sunni and others of their stripe are teachable.

Hoffstra and Saigoon know everything under the sun and can't and won't learn anything more.

Tinmore, well, what can I say.

And Sherri.....well...she has her very own category haha

 

[Hoffstra]

Those millions could have had their own country and durable peace at any point between 1948 and 1967, had they made sensible and practical and correct choices.

what you and others fail to accept is that the longer Israel stalls in making the Palestinians an acceptable peace offer, the greater jeapordy their Jewish state is in.

eventually the two state solution will become impossible, and the Palestinians will dismantle the PA and all entities of Palestinian self-rule, and that will put the welfare and safety of the Palestinian people in the West Bank once again under the full responsibility of Israel.

 

[Kondor3]

Those millions could have had their own country and durable peace at any point between 1948 and 1967, had they made sensible and practical and correct choices.

what you and others fail to accept is that the longer Israel stalls in making the Palestinians an acceptable peace offer, the greater jeapordy their Jewish state is in.

eventually the two state solution will become impossible, and the Palestinians will dismantle the PA and all entities of Palestinian self-rule, and that will put the welfare and safety of the Palestinian people in the West Bank once again under the full responsibility of Israel.

That is one possible future.

There are several others; with two of the more likely including...

1. Eviction Day.

2. Refusal by Israel to re-assume responsibility for the West Bank and Gaza after dismantling, and letting them rot and fester in their shit-holes without further intervention.

And, all the while, the building of The Barrier continues, as does New Settlement Creation...

Resulting in an ever-diminishing rag-tag collection of land-scaps on which the Palestinians can crowd-together and perch...

In that respect, the Israelis have all the time in the world...

The Palestinians are holding a pair of deuces...

And they're out of chips, with which to call, never mind raise...

The Israelis are holding a straight flush, all the chips, and this is the last hand of the game...

There's nothing left for the Palestinians to do but fold...

The only question remaining now is: Are they smart enough to walk away from the table, or will they have to be carried out feet-first?

 

[Hoffstra]

That is one possible future.

There are several others; with two of the more likely including...

1. Eviction Day.

2. Refusal by Israel to re-assume responsibility for the West Bank and Gaza after dismantling, and letting them rot and fester in their shit-holes without further intervention.

Understand that "Eviction Day" would bring upon the Jews a 2nd Holocaust.

Just a warning. Ignore it if you like.

 

[toastman]

Those millions could have had their own country and durable peace at any point between 1948 and 1967, had they made sensible and practical and correct choices.

what you and others fail to accept is that the longer Israel stalls in making the Palestinians an acceptable peace offer, the greater jeapordy their Jewish state is in.

eventually the two state solution will become impossible, and the Palestinians will dismantle the PA and all entities of Palestinian self-rule, and that will put the welfare and safety of the Palestinian people in the West Bank once again under the full responsibility of Israel.

You could not have been more wrong. It is the other way around. It is the Palestinians that need to stop stalling and forget their outrageous and unrealistic demands (right of return, '67 borders), if they truly wants a state, of course....

 

[Hoffstra]

You could not have been more wrong. It is the other way around. It is the Palestinians that need to stop stalling and forget their outrageous and unrealistic demands (right of return, '67 borders), if they truly wants a state, of course....

My dear, you know as well as I that Israel's greatest fear is that the Palestinians will accept a peace deal.

Any peace deal will of course call for at least 100,000 settlers to go home to Israel.

Israel, is scared shitless about what will happen when these 100,000 settlers refuse to leave, and the IDF is forced to remove them by force...with all the massive riots and mutiny this will create.

This is why Israel does everything it can to keep the Palestinians from accepting a deal.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Hoffstra, et al,

When evaluating this, it must be done on two levels:

• Comparative analysis:
  • The evaluation of Law (civil and human rights) with respect to Israeli Citizens of Arab Decent living in Israel.
  • The evaluation of Law (civil and human rights) with respect to non-Israeli Citizens of Arab Decent living in Israel.
  • The evaluation of Law (civil and human rights) with respect to non-Israeli Citizens of Arab Decent living in Israel.
• The Elements of Crime of "Apartheid" must be consistent with this Statute.

(OBSERVATION)

Inhumane acts of a character similar to those referred to in paragraph 1:

• (a) Murder;
• (b) Extermination;
• (c) Enslavement;
• (d) Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
• (e) Imprisonment or other severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of fundamental rules of international law;
• (f) Torture;
• (g) Rape, sexual slavery, enforced prostitution, forced pregnancy, enforced sterilization, or any other form of sexual violence of comparable gravity;
• (h) Persecution against any identifiable group or collectivity on political, racial, national, ethnic, cultural, religious, gender as defined in paragraph 3, or other grounds that are universally recognized as impermissible under international law, in connection with any act referred to in this paragraph or any crime within the jurisdiction of the Court;
• (i) Enforced disappearance of persons;
• (j) The crime of apartheid;
• (k) Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health.

Committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination;

• Oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups;
  --------------------> AND <--------------------
• Committed with the intention of maintaining that regime;

(COMMENT)

Domestic Considerations as a comparison.

First, I don't subscribed to the Arab-Palestinian position that there is any form of discrimination based on race (one racial group over any other racial group). There is no substantive evidence that there is any discrimination with respect to Israeli Citizens of Jewish Decent and that of Israeli Citizens Arab Decent, living in Israel.

Second, I don't subscribed to the Arab-Palestinian position that there is any form of oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group with respect to Israeli Citizens of Jewish Decent and that of Israeli Citizens Arab Decent, living in Israel.

Third, I don't subscribed to the Arab-Palestinian position that there is any substantive evidence of segregation or legal subjugation committed with respect to Israeli Citizens of Jewish Decent oppressing Israeli Citizens Arab Decent, living in Israel; with the intention of maintaining a regime Jewish supremacy or dominance.​

The allegation of "apartheid" is based primarily on the regiment of security concerns based on the Administration of the Occupied Territories. Thus, the complaint is that
there is substantive evidence of segregation or legal subjugation committed with respect to non-Israeli Citizens of Arab Decent that are NOT living in Israel (ie: The Occupied Territories). The argument theme is that the oppression and domination by the Occupation Force over the Arab Palestinian of the Occupied Territories is the equivalent of the oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group to maintain supremacy or dominance.

(PRIMA FACIE EVIDENCE)

General Policy:

• Article 9 Palestine National Charter of 1968: Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.
• Article 10 Palestine National Charter of 1968: Commando (Feday'ee) action constitutes the nucleus of the Palestinian popular liberation war.
• Article 13 The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) 18 August 1988: There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
• Article 15 The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) 18 August 1988: The day that enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem.

Specific Policy:




(Supporting EVIDENCE)






(COMMENT)

What the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) calls "apartheid," is the active suppression and quarantine of elements that pledged in the past, have demonstrated in the past and present, and continue in organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating, activities that threaten regional peace.

In the interest of peace and in the absents of a peace accord, the continued occupation of territory under the influence of HAMAS and FATAH is justified.

• To cooperate fully in the fight against terrorism, in accordance with our obligations under international law, in order to find, deny safe haven and bring to justice, on the basis of the principle of extradite or prosecute, any person who supports, facilitates, participates or attempts to participate in the financing, planning, preparation or perpetration of terrorist acts or provides safe havens.
  
• To ensure the apprehension and prosecution or extradition of perpetrators of terrorist acts, in accordance with the relevant provisions of national and international law, in particular human rights law, refugee law and international humanitarian law. We will endeavour to conclude and implement to that effect mutual judicial assistance and extradition agreements, and to strengthen cooperation between law enforcement agencies.

Most Respectfully,
R

Just from my observation:

Toastman, Condor, Roudy, I and the rest will absorb and heed your advice.

Theliq, Indofreud, Sunni and others of their stripe are teachable.

Hoffstra and Saigoon know everything under the sun and can't and won't learn anything more.

Tinmore, well, what can I say.

And Sherri.....well...she has her very own category haha

Where do I fit in? and lipush? ;-)

 

[Kondor3]

"...Understand that "Eviction Day" would bring upon the Jews a 2nd Holocaust. Just a warning. Ignore it if you like."

There exists today no Muslim-Arab power nor combination of powers capable of projecting that kind of force against a nuclear-armed Israel (not that they've ever needed it in the past, to kick Arab ass, in three separate wars) - at least not without that attacking power committing suicide in the process - nor will any major non-Arab power align with the Muslims and the Palestinians, to take-on Israel, or the combined power of Israel and the United States.

There is no Arab Cavalry coming over the hill to rescue the Palestinians, if Eviction Day ever comes, and Hamas (and Hezbollah, if necessary) would be completely overrun by the IDF within a mere handful of days, if it ever came to full-out, no-holds-barred conflict.

You serve-up brave talk, but there is no Reality behind that talk, to make it Operative.

If Eviction Day ever comes, the Palestinian resistance-situation is doomed before operations even begin, and that quickly.

I fully understand that you do not want this to be so.

But that does not change Reality.

 

[toastman]

That is one possible future.

There are several others; with two of the more likely including...

1. Eviction Day.

2. Refusal by Israel to re-assume responsibility for the West Bank and Gaza after dismantling, and letting them rot and fester in their shit-holes without further intervention.

Understand that "Eviction Day" would bring upon the Jews a 2nd Holocaust.

Just a warning. Ignore it if you like.

A warning from who, you ??

Looks like we got ourselves an internet tough guy

 

[ForeverYoung436]

That is one possible future.

There are several others; with two of the more likely including...

1. Eviction Day.

2. Refusal by Israel to re-assume responsibility for the West Bank and Gaza after dismantling, and letting them rot and fester in their shit-holes without further intervention.

Understand that "Eviction Day" would bring upon the Jews a 2nd Holocaust.

Just a warning. Ignore it if you like.

This is one time I'd have to agree with Hoffstra. Unlike the Kurds or the Tibetans, the world is obsessed with the Palestinians because of the Jooos. If the Israelis evicted almost 3 million Palestinians from the West Bank, the world would not sit idly by.

 

[Hoffstra]

This is one time I'd have to agree with Hoffstra. Unlike the Kurds or the Tibetans, the world is obsessed with the Palestinians because of the Jooos. If the Israelis evicted almost 3 million Palestinians from the West Bank, the world would not sit idly by.

If Israeli evicted more than 3 million Palestinians from the West Bank, there would be another Shoah.

That would be God's punishment for their sinful ways.

 

[Kondor3]

I hear both of you. I disagree about such a possibility, but I hear you.

There comes a time when there is nothing more to do than to kick-out the troublemakers.

Happens every so often, in one part of the world or another.

Given the pace with which old Palestinian lands are being gobbled-up, it seems a logical outcome, and, quite possibly, the only way to cut the Gordian Knot of incessant rocket attacks upon Israeli settlements.

The Palestinians will not be happy until they achieve a complete recovery of all of Old Palestine.

The Israelis cannot endure forevermore alongside a hostile element so dedicated, tucked in alongside them.

Something has to give.

The Israelis are stronger.

It will, therefore, be the weaker Palestinians that give.

It's merely a matter of timing, when conditions are ripe.

It's merely a matter of 'when', IMHO, and how close we are to that 'when'...

Poke a hornet's nest with a stick often enough and you're gonna have to run for your life.

The Palestinians have been poking for 65 years.

Still - right or wrong - accurate or inaccurate - realistic or unrealistic - ethical or not - it's all speculation.

 

[Hoffstra]

Kondor- trying to expel millions of Palestinians, especially not during a large-scale war involving the Palestinians, would lead to another Shoah.

why do you want to see more than six million Jews die?

 

[RoccoR]

Hoffstra, et al,

I had to really think about this one.

Hoffstra is thinking a bit forward here.

Eventually the two state solution will become impossible, and the Palestinians will dismantle the PA and all entities of Palestinian self-rule, and that will put the welfare and safety of the Palestinian people in the West Bank once again under the full responsibility of Israel.

(CONSEQUENCES)

• What if the Palestinian Authority Collapses?
  
  
  Hamas, recognizing the implications of PLO failure to maintain the PA, would seek to gain adherents for its leadership on the West Bank and to sabotage attempts to maintain stability. (On the other hand, it would have to explain to Gazans why financial transfers from the West Bank-based PA had ceased, thereby exacerbating Gaza's economic situation.) Extremist settlers might view the situation as an invitation for a land-grab. Either or both of these developments could oblige the Israel Defense Forces to expand their reach back into all of Area A: Palestinian cities and towns. The Israeli peace camp would justifiably trumpet the government's failure to prevent the PA's collapse and would seek new Israeli elections or heightened international intervention.
  
  Calls would emerge from the Israeli far right and post-Zionist far left and from Palestinians who have lost hope for a two-state solution for Israel to annex the territory. The Palestinians and the post-Zionists would demand full citizenship rights for West Bank Palestinians, thereby jeopardizing Israel's claim to be a Jewish state. The far right would insist on some sort of distinction between Palestinian "personal rights" and Jewish "citizenship rights"--meaning, in effect, apartheid.
  
  Meanwhile, an increasingly Islamist Arab world would find plenty in this situation to accuse Israel of. So would the US and Europe, where voices would be heard suggesting that the emerging crisis offered an opportunity to adopt more forceful policies in favor of two states and against the settlements.​
• Kerry: Collapse of Palestinian Authority Would be Worse for Israel and US
  
  
  "If that experiment is allowed to fail, ask yourselves: What will replace it? What will happen if the Palestinian economy implodes? If the Palestinian security forces dissolve? If the Palestinian Authority fails? Surely something much worse for Israel's interests and for America's and for the region," he said.
  
  Kerry says the failure of the current Palestinian leadership could bring about the same kind of extremism in the West Bank that Israelis are facing from Hamas in Gaza and from Hezbollah in southern Lebanon.​

(OBSERVATION)

As in the past, when the Palestinian Authority has been strapped for cash, someone (or several) have always stepped-in to inject monetary assistance; not that they want to, but so no alternative. Their individual reasons for doing so may be different, but the outcome is the same.

• Donors may halt aid to Palestinian Authority if no progress is made in peace talks

"The donors will not be ready to keep funding Palestinian state-building much longer if we do not see a political solution on the horizon," said Eide.

"I think this is important for the Palestinians to know...the comfort of an internationally subsidised state-building endeavour may be wrong," Eide told the newspaper. "And I think that it is important for some people on the Israeli side...to know that this cannot continue forever."

SOURCE: Middle East Monitor (MEM) Thursday, 29 August 2013

(COMMENT)

This is one of those cases where everyone has painted themselves into a corner.

There is too much resting on the outcome of the current Peace Negotiations. The US, having jump-started the talks, has become the deep pocketed de-facto guarantor. We will have to keep the Palestinian Authority solvent and functioning. Otherwise, the entire Arab World is going to blame America for the collapse. And, if the collapse is allowed to happen, what will fill the void?

If Israel remains the "Occupation Authority" for both Gaza and the West Bank, that is going to insure an insurgency the likes of which would rival the problems faced in post-War Iraq. Nobody wants that; especially the Israelis.

Jordan might be persuaded to take the West Bank back, but then that puts Israeli security back to the pre-1967 conditions. And it is unlikely that Egypt wants another failed region like the Gaza Strip, unless they get major assistance with the Levant Gas Field.

Clearly, it will be chaos for a bit. And in chaos, both insurgents and terrorists have the advantage.

So, from the perspective of many, the current peace negotiations might be described as one of those situations where "failure is not an option."

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Kondor3]

Kondor- trying to expel millions of Palestinians, especially not during a large-scale war involving the Palestinians, would lead to another Shoah.

why do you want to see more than six million Jews die?

I am intrigued.

Whom do you believe is going to commit this next Shoah, should the Israelis decide to break this impossible deadlock and Evict and Expel the Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza?