Is Israel the Same as South Africa?

[Hoffstra]

I am intrigued.

Whom do you believe is going to commit this next Shoah, should the Israelis decide to break this impossible deadlock and Evict and Expel the Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza?

If Israel dares to attempt to expel millions of Palestinians, a new Holocaust of the Jews will be committed by the more than 1 billion Muslims throughout the world.


It will be done by the Muslims, but it will be God's punishment, just as the Holocaust was.

 

[Kondor3]

I am intrigued.

Whom do you believe is going to commit this next Shoah, should the Israelis decide to break this impossible deadlock and Evict and Expel the Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza?

If Israel dares to attempt to expel millions of Palestinians, a new Holocaust of the Jews will be committed by the more than 1 billion Muslims throughout the world.

Pakistan is too far away to attack Israel.

Indonesia is too far away to attack Israel.

Iran is too far away to attack Israel without risking supply and communications lines that both the Israelis and Americans would shred to tatters in a fortnight or less.

Syria is no longer in a condition to attack Israel.

Lebanon is no longer in a condition to attack Israel.

Jordan is too weak to attack Israel without massive support from its neighbors.

Iraq is no longer in a condition to attack Israel.

Afghanistan never was in a condition to attack Israel.

Egypt is no longer in a condition to attack Israel.

Libya is no longer in a condition to attack Israel.

Saudi Arabia and Yemen and Kuwait and Qatar and Morocco and the UAE and all the rest of that lot are too small to attack Israel without massive support from their neighbors and will not risk it without the Big Guns, which have been largely neutralized.

Turkey is a largely European and largely secular country and will not break with Europe and America and NATO over a pissant sideshow like the Palestinians.

As I said, there is no Arab Cavalry coming over the hill this time to rescue the Palestinians.

"...It will be done by the Muslims..."

But Islam is the 'Religion of Peace', isn't it?

Also, slaughtering Jews for merely uprooting and relocating Palestinians (but allowing them to live) is a disproportionate response, isn't it?

"...it will be God's punishment, just as the Holocaust was."

Your Honor, the Defense rests.

 

[Hoffstra]

Also, slaughtering Jews for merely uprooting and relocating Palestinians (but allowing them to live) is a disproportionate response, isn't it?

Israel knows all about and totally accepts the concept, of disproportionate responses.

And yes, if Israel dares to event attempt another Nakba, this would justify their immediate and total annihilation.

The Lord works in mysterious ways.

 

[RoccoR]

Kondor3, Hoffstra, et al,

There must be a miscommunication here.

Kondor- trying to expel millions of Palestinians, especially not during a large-scale war involving the Palestinians, would lead to another Shoah.

why do you want to see more than six million Jews die?

I am intrigued.

Whom do you believe is going to commit this next Shoah, should the Israelis decide to break this impossible deadlock and Evict and Expel the Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza?

And keeping in mind that Expulsion is a long way from Slaughter.

(COMMENT)

First, neither side wants to be associated with either:

• Another extermination program.
• Another eviction resulting in a mass movement of refugees.

In fact, neither of these options would be in the best interest of any of the Arab regional nations, the Palestinians, the Israelis, or the UN (which the Arabs believe is ultimately responsible for the situation as it evolved).

There are a bunch of potential options, but neither of these are acceptable.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Kondor3]

Also, slaughtering Jews for merely uprooting and relocating Palestinians (but allowing them to live) is a disproportionate response, isn't it?

Israel knows all about and totally accepts the concept, of disproportionate responses.

And yes, if Israel dares to event attempt another Nakba, this would justify their immediate and total annihilation.

The Lord works in mysterious ways.

Wow...

Under such circumstances (evict and expel), the Jews would merely be undertaking 'technical' Ethnic Cleansing of the milder sort, merely involving uprooting and relocation, rather than killing...

But you are advocating... not uprooting and relocation... but killing... and not only killing, but total annihilation... interesting.

Well, if it comes down to that, all you need is a collection of countries with sufficient military competency and muscle to carry out your full-blown genocide...

And nothing along those lines exists at present, in neither extant form, not as a realistic prospect in the near-to-mid term...

Wake me up when you've got a coalition in-mind that is up to the challenge...

And that's just on the Conventional Warfare level...

Never mind the 200+ nuclear warheads and mid-range delivery systems waiting to be unleashed on the first idiot Arab dictator crazy enough to even seriously try to undertake their 'total annihilation'...

Good luck with that, Hoffstra...

There is no Arab Cavalry coming over the hill this time, and you know that just as well as I do...

 

[Hoffstra]

Wow...

Under such circumstances (evict and expel), the Jews would merely be undertaking 'technical' Ethnic Cleansing of the milder sort, merely involving uprooting and relocation, rather than killing...

But you are advocating... not uprooting and relocation... but killing... and not only killing, but total annihilation... interesting.

Well, if it comes down to that, all you need is a collection of countries with sufficient military competency and muscle to carry out your full-blown genocide...

And nothing along those lines exists at present, in neither extant form, not as a realistic prospect in the near-to-mid term...

Wake me up when you've got a coalition in-mind that is up to the challenge...

And that's just on the Conventional Warfare level...

Never mind the 200+ nuclear warheads and mid-range delivery systems waiting to be unleashed on the first idiot Arab dictator crazy enough to even seriously try to undertake their 'total annihilation'...

Good luck with that, Hoffstra...

There is no Arab Cavalry coming over the hill this time, and you know that just as well as I do...

I am sorry, I really am, but any nation that seeks to expel almost 1/3 of its population by force, has lost the right to exist.

Perhaps an orderly process of dissolution, deconstruction, and devolution can take place to dismantle the State of Israel, but a clean break from the Earth would be more efficient and easier to achieve.

Plus the fact that Israel would refuse to comply with any process of deconstruction of their state, so yes...physical annihilation would simply save us the red tape.


....again, this should ONLY take place if Israel engages in or attempt to engage in a process of ethnic cleansing against millions of Palestinians.

 

[Kondor3]

"...First, neither side wants..."

I believe you to be admirably albeit groundlessly optimistic about this next round of talks.

I also believe you to be mistaken about (a) the Israelis being unwilling to expel the Palestinians and (b) the Palestinians not looking to drive the Israelis into the Mediterranean.

And, once the talks fail, that may - this time - very well mark the end of any dialogue between the two sides whatsoever, and forevermore, in their current configuration.

The Muslim-Arab neighbors of Israel have never been so weak - relatively speaking vis a vis Israel - as they are now; consequently, the danger to the Palestinians has never been greater.

Sea-changes or signal-changes and the cutting of Gordian Knots usually comes like a bolt out of the blue and entirely unexpected by the target(s) and much of the rest of the world.

When you're facing an impossible and intolerable deadlock (as the Israelis will be once this latest round of talks fails) you have to begin thinking and acting outside-the-box.

My guess is that the Israelis will then take the road less traveled, and do something radical along the lines of what I"ve just outlined.

It's entirely possible (the Palestinians had better hope likely) that I'm wrong, but there is a strong case to be made for jumping through the present Window of Opportunity for Israel, soon after The Talks fail, as I believe they will.

As I said before... there will be no Arab Cavalry coming over the hill to the rescue of the Palestinians, this time.

But, of course, time will tell about that, as well.

I think I've pretty-much beaten that scenario into the ground as an Introductory Concept Piece, but it was worth the exercise.

 

[Kondor3]

"...again, this should ONLY take place if Israel..."

Seen. There's not much point in me repeating myself. We see this possibility quite differently.

 

[theliq]

"...First, neither side wants..."

I believe you to be admirably albeit groundlessly optimistic about this next round of talks.

I also believe you to be mistaken about (a) the Israelis being unwilling to expel the Palestinians and (b) the Palestinians not looking to drive the Israelis into the Mediterranean.

And, once the talks fail, that may - this time - very well mark the end of any dialogue between the two sides whatsoever, and forevermore, in their current configuration.

The Muslim-Arab neighbors of Israel have never been so weak - relatively speaking vis a vis Israel - as they are now;l consequently, the danger to the Palestinians has never been greater.

Sea-changes or signal-changes and the cutting of Gordian Knots usually comes like a bolt out of the blue and entirely unexpected by the target(s) and much of the rest of the world.

When you're facing an impossible and intolerable deadlock (as the Israelis will be once this latest round of talks fails) you have to begin thinking and acting outside-the-box.

My guess is that the Israelis will then take the road less traveled, and do something radical along the lines of what I"ve just outlined.

It's entirely possible (the Palestinians had better hope likely) that I'm wrong, but there is a strong case to be made for jumping through the present Window of Opportunity for Israel.

As I said before... there will be no Arab Cavalry coming over the hill to the rescue.

But, of course, time will tell about that, as well.

I think I've pretty-much beaten that scenario into the ground as an Introductory Concept Piece, but it was worth the exercise.

Israel has never been in the Box,Silly

They think and do as they Please.......but not all Jews?(if you are one,which I much Doubt)Israelis think like you these days.....history has moved on from your Zionist Terrorist Manifesto......And Hail to the Jewish folk who resist your violent Dogma.

I'm theliq,say NO to Zionism...and YES to a peaceful Israel and Palestine(which is exactly what Zionist Terrorists DO NOT WANT)

 

[Kondor3]

"...fool on us..."

Who is "us"?

 

[Kondor3]

"...your violent Dogma."

I spout no dogma.

I show you one likely future.

 

[Hoffstra]

I spout no dogma.

I show you one likely future.[/SIZE]

your future that has a massive action of ethnic cleansing of Palestinians would lead to a quick and final destruction of the State of Israel.

 

[Kondor3]

I spout no dogma.

I show you one likely future.[/SIZE]

your future that has a massive action of ethnic cleansing of Palestinians would lead to a quick and final destruction of the State of Israel.

Yes.

You've said that before.

I, on the other hand, have served-up the counterpoints of (1) historic Arab weakness and (2) historic Israeli strength.

We are repeating ourselves.

 

[Hoffstra]

...It's entirely possible (the Palestinians had better hope likely) that I'm wrong, but there is a strong case to be made for jumping through the present Window of Opportunity for Israel, soon after The Talks fail, as I believe they will.

As I said before... there will be no Arab Cavalry coming over the hill to the rescue of the Palestinians, this time.

But, of course, time will tell about that, as well.

I think I've pretty-much beaten that scenario into the ground as an Introductory Concept Piece, but it was worth the exercise.

I pray, for the existence of Medinat Yisrael, that you are wrong.

If your sick fantasies pan out, more than 6 million Jews will die a horrible death.

 

[Kondor3]

"...I pray, for the existence of Medinat Yisrael, that you are wrong..."

I'm sure they appreciate your prayers.

"...If your sick fantasies pan out, more than 6 million Jews will die a horrible death."

They are not 'mine'. They are not 'sick fantasies'. They are cold, calculated, dispassionate and logical projections of next steps, should this latest (and final?) round of talks fail.

 

[Hoffstra]

They are not 'mine'. They are not 'sick fantasies'. They are cold, calculated, dispassionate and logical projections of next steps, should this latest (and final?) round of talks fail.

If you really think any party within the current coalition government in Israel is even considering the prospect of planning let alone attempting to carry out a mass expulsion of the Arabs of the West Bank if peace talks fail, you need some serious psychological assistance.

The irony is, some would consider your suggestion that members of Israel's coalition are even considering such an idea, to be anti-Semitic.

 

[toastman]

...It's entirely possible (the Palestinians had better hope likely) that I'm wrong, but there is a strong case to be made for jumping through the present Window of Opportunity for Israel, soon after The Talks fail, as I believe they will.

As I said before... there will be no Arab Cavalry coming over the hill to the rescue of the Palestinians, this time.

But, of course, time will tell about that, as well.

I think I've pretty-much beaten that scenario into the ground as an Introductory Concept Piece, but it was worth the exercise.

I pray, for the existence of Medinat Yisrael, that you are wrong.

If your sick fantasies pan out, more than 6 million Jews will die a horrible death.

I've already lost count of how many times you said millions of Jews will die.
You are one sick puppy !

 

[Coyote]

The problem with ethnic cleansing that pretends to be civilized, is this: there is usually no place to put the people once they are rounded up.

Then what?

 

[Kondor3]

The problem with ethnic cleansing that pretends to be civilized, is this: there is usually no place to put the people once they are rounded up. Then what?

That is an excellent point, and, sometimes, there is no good answer.

With respect to those times post-WWII when there were forcible en masse population shifts - ethnic Germans expelled from the Sudentenland in Czechoslovakia and East Prussia in Poland, Hindus expelled from Pakistan and Muslims expelled from India, etc...

Room was found in the Destination Country even though there was some very real loss of life and considerable hardship associated with the act - hardships that were eventually overcome as the New Normal crystallized in those places...

If that sort of thing unfolded with respect to the Palestinians, I suspect those expelled would be split-up and scattered between Jordan, Lebanon and Syria, for starters, and let them fend for themselves - supplied with food and water and compensation money - once they're safely across the border, to let their ethnic brethren and co-religionists worry about them from that point forward, and putting the burden and onus upon those brethren, should they fail to take-in the refugees and to care for them on humanitarian grounds, once the refugees cross onto foreign soil of those brethren.

It's a nasty business alright, even when a population (or some segment thereof) does NOT resist, never mind when some segment DOES, and is subsequently defeated and neutralized, but...

If it is a choice between kicking out your hostile neighbors versus making your children and grandchildren safe, and you have that power, well, the aggressive neighbors lose every time, in virtually every scenario, in virtually every corner of the world, in virtually every Age of Man, since Man first climbed down from the trees, and extending all the way to within the range of living memory, by Poles and Czechs and Indians and Pakistanis.

In us-or-them situations... choosing your own over 'the others'... this is the purest and most ancient of logic, I'm afraid, in the context of clashes of civilizations and populations.

And it would not surprise me in the least if we see such a thing unfolding, if this Last Chance round of talks collapses, which I believe will probably happen.

We like to kid ourselves that such things can no longer happen because we live in Modern Times.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Each time in the past that such things have happened, the people involved were ALSO living in Modern Times, from their own perspective.

Ask the ethnic Germans and the Hindus and the Muslims I mentioned who were forcibly relocated in their hundreds of thousands and in their millions AFTER WWII - under Allied or friendly control - many of those forcibly relocated during those times are still alive today.

 

[Hoffstra]

Sickening how Jews, descendents of Holocaust victims and survivors, can actually contemplate committing ethnic cleansing against millions of people.

Sickening because the Palestinians are STONGER than Israel, would never willingly be forced from their homeland, and Israel would have to kill millions of people if they want to rid the West Bank of Arabs.

If that happened, Israel would pay the ultimate price. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a hand, a foot for a foot.




I trust Israel and the Jews are smart enough not to make such a terrible mistake.

The Arab world can survive losing 3 million of their brethren.

The Jews? The loss of 6 million more Jews would be hard to recover from.