Is Israel the Same as South Africa?

[Sweet_Caroline]

 

[Intense]

Reminder.... This is a Zone 2 Posting Forum.... Lighten up.

 

[MHunterB]

Oh, Georgie! You are soo! silly.

Everyone here knows that you are a true Communist. And so of course you are going to accuse everyone you wish to hate of being 'Nazi' supporters or sympathizers or collaborators.

Even as you prattle on about "pacifism".

LMAO.

The rest of us know and understand that ultimately, as a response to a virulent 'ideology' - like Naziism, Communism, or 'Islamism', or any other such (which Zionism in mainstream is absolutely NOT!) - the "pacifism" is simply agreeing to be murdered.

I love it when the Commie scum 'counsel' everyone that 'pacifism' is what's needed: Sure, the Communists fought against the Nazis quite ferociously. And whenever captured, they made sure to rat out all their fellow 'partizans' who were NOT sufficiently Marxist...... LMAO! There's a well-documented pattern from France and everywhere else in Europe of exactly that behavior ...... the Marxists were *using* the Nazis to make their take-over of European nations easier, and France was actually the exception.

By Georgie's "logic", as a Communist, he should stand condemned of every death and misery associated with 'the Great Leap Forward' , as well as the killing fields of Cambodia.

 

[georgephillip]

Oh, Georgie! You are soo! silly.

Everyone here knows that you are a true Communist. And so of course you are going to accuse everyone you wish to hate of being 'Nazi' supporters or sympathizers or collaborators.

Even as you prattle on about "pacifism".

LMAO.

The rest of us know and understand that ultimately, as a response to a virulent 'ideology' - like Naziism, Communism, or 'Islamism', or any other such (which Zionism in mainstream is absolutely NOT!) - the "pacifism" is simply agreeing to be murdered.

I love it when the Commie scum 'counsel' everyone that 'pacifism' is what's needed: Sure, the Communists fought against the Nazis quite ferociously. And whenever captured, they made sure to rat out all their fellow 'partizans' who were NOT sufficiently Marxist...... LMAO! There's a well-documented pattern from France and everywhere else in Europe of exactly that behavior ...... the Marxists were *using* the Nazis to make their take-over of European nations easier, and France was actually the exception.

By Georgie's "logic", as a Communist, he should stand condemned of every death and misery associated with 'the Great Leap Forward' , as well as the killing fields of Cambodia.

Tell us what your non-virulent ideology was trying to tell Hitler about the "assimilationist trend" and the difficulty that presented to the "Jewish condition" in 1933?

"Zionism convicts itself. On June 21, 1933, the German Zionist Federation sent a secret memorandum to the Nazis:

“Zionism has no illusions about the difficulty of the Jewish condition, which consists above all in an abnormal occupational pattern and in the fault of an intellectual and moral posture not rooted in one’s own tradition. Zionism recognized decades ago that as a result of the assimilationist trend, symptoms of deterioration were bound to appear, which it seeks to overcome by carrying out its challenge to transform Jewish life completely."

51 Documents » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

 

[Kondor3]

...On June 21, 1933, the German Zionist Federation sent a secret memorandum to the Nazis..."

Did the thought ever once enter your mind that various Jewish organizations (including the Federation) were probably scared shit-less by the Nazis' rise to power, and that the Jews were telling the Nazis whatever-the-hell they wanted to hear, to keep the emmigration pipeline to Palestine open for as long as humanly possible, using every trick in the book that they could think of, to delay the Nazis turning off the faucet?

 

[RoccoR]

georgephillip, et al,

What "exactly" does this means.

Oh, Georgie! You are soo! silly.

Everyone here knows that you are a true Communist. And so of course you are going to accuse everyone you wish to hate of being 'Nazi' supporters or sympathizers or collaborators.

Even as you prattle on about "pacifism".

LMAO.

The rest of us know and understand that ultimately, as a response to a virulent 'ideology' - like Naziism, Communism, or 'Islamism', or any other such (which Zionism in mainstream is absolutely NOT!) - the "pacifism" is simply agreeing to be murdered.

I love it when the Commie scum 'counsel' everyone that 'pacifism' is what's needed: Sure, the Communists fought against the Nazis quite ferociously. And whenever captured, they made sure to rat out all their fellow 'partizans' who were NOT sufficiently Marxist...... LMAO! There's a well-documented pattern from France and everywhere else in Europe of exactly that behavior ...... the Marxists were *using* the Nazis to make their take-over of European nations easier, and France was actually the exception.

By Georgie's "logic", as a Communist, he should stand condemned of every death and misery associated with 'the Great Leap Forward' , as well as the killing fields of Cambodia.

Tell us what your non-virulent ideology was trying to tell Hitler about the "assimilationist trend" and the difficulty that presented to the "Jewish condition" in 1933?

"Zionism convicts itself. On June 21, 1933, the German Zionist Federation sent a secret memorandum to the Nazis:

“Zionism has no illusions about the difficulty of the Jewish condition, which consists above all in an abnormal occupational pattern and in the fault of an intellectual and moral posture not rooted in one’s own tradition. Zionism recognized decades ago that as a result of the assimilationist trend, symptoms of deterioration were bound to appear, which it seeks to overcome by carrying out its challenge to transform Jewish life completely."

51 Documents » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

(QUESTIONS)

How is this some sort of confession or conviction?

• the difficulty of the Jewish condition
• abnormal occupational pattern
• the fault of an intellectual and moral posture not rooted in one’s own tradition
• result of the assimilationist trend, symptoms of deterioration were bound to appear
• challenge to transform Jewish life completely

How is any of this harmful?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[ForeverYoung436]

...On June 21, 1933, the German Zionist Federation sent a secret memorandum to the Nazis..."

Did the thought ever once enter your mind that various Jewish organizations (including the Federation) were probably scared shit-less by the Nazis' rise to power, and that the Jews were telling the Nazis whatever-the-hell they wanted to hear, to keep the emmigration pipeline to Palestine open for as long as humanly possible, using every trick in the book that they could think of, to delay the Nazis turning off the faucet?

If those letters are authentic, they make my blood run cold. However, Kondor's theory sounds correct.

 

[georgephillip]

...On June 21, 1933, the German Zionist Federation sent a secret memorandum to the Nazis..."

Did the thought ever once enter your mind that various Jewish organizations (including the Federation) were probably scared shit-less by the Nazis' rise to power, and that the Jews were telling the Nazis whatever-the-hell they wanted to hear, to keep the emmigration pipeline to Palestine open for as long as humanly possible, using every trick in the book that they could think of, to delay the Nazis turning off the faucet?

What are your "thoughts" on the similarities between National Socialism, Zionism and totalitarianism?

"Avraham Stern and his followers announced that..."

"The establishment of the historic Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, bound by a treaty with the German Reich, would be in the interest of a maintained and strengthened future German position of power in the Near East."

//www.counterpunch.org/2002/12/23/51-documents/

Those who offered to collaborate with the agents of the Holocaust by killing British troops in Palestine kept the showers on in Auschwitz.

 

[georgephillip]

georgephillip, et al,

What "exactly" does this means.

Oh, Georgie! You are soo! silly.

Everyone here knows that you are a true Communist. And so of course you are going to accuse everyone you wish to hate of being 'Nazi' supporters or sympathizers or collaborators.

Even as you prattle on about "pacifism".

LMAO.

The rest of us know and understand that ultimately, as a response to a virulent 'ideology' - like Naziism, Communism, or 'Islamism', or any other such (which Zionism in mainstream is absolutely NOT!) - the "pacifism" is simply agreeing to be murdered.

I love it when the Commie scum 'counsel' everyone that 'pacifism' is what's needed: Sure, the Communists fought against the Nazis quite ferociously. And whenever captured, they made sure to rat out all their fellow 'partizans' who were NOT sufficiently Marxist...... LMAO! There's a well-documented pattern from France and everywhere else in Europe of exactly that behavior ...... the Marxists were *using* the Nazis to make their take-over of European nations easier, and France was actually the exception.

By Georgie's "logic", as a Communist, he should stand condemned of every death and misery associated with 'the Great Leap Forward' , as well as the killing fields of Cambodia.

Tell us what your non-virulent ideology was trying to tell Hitler about the "assimilationist trend" and the difficulty that presented to the "Jewish condition" in 1933?

"Zionism convicts itself. On June 21, 1933, the German Zionist Federation sent a secret memorandum to the Nazis:

“Zionism has no illusions about the difficulty of the Jewish condition, which consists above all in an abnormal occupational pattern and in the fault of an intellectual and moral posture not rooted in one’s own tradition. Zionism recognized decades ago that as a result of the assimilationist trend, symptoms of deterioration were bound to appear, which it seeks to overcome by carrying out its challenge to transform Jewish life completely."

51 Documents » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

(QUESTIONS)

How is this some sort of confession or conviction?

• the difficulty of the Jewish condition
• abnormal occupational pattern
• the fault of an intellectual and moral posture not rooted in one’s own tradition
• result of the assimilationist trend, symptoms of deterioration were bound to appear
• challenge to transform Jewish life completely

How is any of this harmful?

Most Respectfully,
R

Equating an assimilationist trend with symptoms of deterioration and a faulty moral posture sounds like racist Jews making an appeal to equally racist Aryans. I would say the harm of this kind of ethnic arrogance by a relative small number of psychotic Jews explains why over thousands of years in dozens of states millions of innocent Jews have been maimed, murdered, and displaced by pyschotic killers like Hitler.

 

[georgephillip]

...On June 21, 1933, the German Zionist Federation sent a secret memorandum to the Nazis..."

Did the thought ever once enter your mind that various Jewish organizations (including the Federation) were probably scared shit-less by the Nazis' rise to power, and that the Jews were telling the Nazis whatever-the-hell they wanted to hear, to keep the emmigration pipeline to Palestine open for as long as humanly possible, using every trick in the book that they could think of, to delay the Nazis turning off the faucet?

If those letters are authentic, they make my blood run cold. However, Kondor's theory sounds correct.

"In January 1941, Stern attempted to make an agreement with the German Nazi authorities, offering to 'actively take part in the war on Germany's side' in return for German support for Jewish immigration to Palestine and the establishment of a Jewish state.

"Another attempt to contact the Germans was made in late 1941, but there is no record of a German response in either case.[12]

"These appeals to Germany were in direct opposition to the views of other Zionists, such as Ze'ev Jabotinsky, who wanted Britain to defeat the Nazis even as they wanted to expel the British from Palestine."

Avraham Stern - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In early 1941 the Nazis were just beginning to gain proficiency in the industrial process of mass murder as they exterminated hundreds of thousands of Jews and others in their sweep across Russia.

It's possible that Stern would not have made his offer a year later when the SS began implementing Hitler's Final Solution in his homeland, Poland.

 

[Kondor3]

Did the thought ever once enter your mind that various Jewish organizations (including the Federation) were probably scared shit-less by the Nazis' rise to power, and that the Jews were telling the Nazis whatever-the-hell they wanted to hear, to keep the emmigration pipeline to Palestine open for as long as humanly possible, using every trick in the book that they could think of, to delay the Nazis turning off the faucet?

If those letters are authentic, they make my blood run cold. However, Kondor's theory sounds correct.

"In January 1941, Stern attempted to make an agreement with the German Nazi authorities, offering to 'actively take part in the war on Germany's side' in return for German support for Jewish immigration to Palestine and the establishment of a Jewish state.

"Another attempt to contact the Germans was made in late 1941, but there is no record of a German response in either case.[12]

"These appeals to Germany were in direct opposition to the views of other Zionists, such as Ze'ev Jabotinsky, who wanted Britain to defeat the Nazis even as they wanted to expel the British from Palestine."

Avraham Stern - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In early 1941 the Nazis were just beginning to gain proficiency in the industrial process of mass murder as they exterminated hundreds of thousands of Jews and others in their sweep across Russia.

It's possible that Stern would not have made his offer a year later when the SS began implementing Hitler's Final Solution in his homeland, Poland.

Puh-leeeeze, George...

It is quite clear that that faction of the Palestinian Jewish Activist community differed dramatically from the larger percentage of factions which continued to support the British.

And, for that smaller faction, we are looking at Jews offering to fight the British in Palestine in return for allowing the Jews to continue to emmigrate to Palestine rather than slaughtering them.

Gee... imagine that... I'll start harassing and sniping at our common enemy (Britain) here on my own home turf if you'll keep the emmigration pipeline open and let my People go.

Given that various factions of the Palestinian Jews were already trying to push the Brits out of Palestine long before WWII even began, and given that even more too to that approach after WWII ended and before their 1948 Declaration of Statehood...

Why should we be surprised that a faction of the Jews of Palestine offered to hit the Brits as best they could in exchange for the lives of their fellow Jews?

And, because that deal fell through and was exposed, that faction took some considerable Public Relations hits in the months and years go come, being pitched as disloyal, when, in truth, they were being ultimately loyal to their own co-religionists at the (offered) expense of their Mandate Occuipers.

In their shoes - in a desperate last-minute attempt to get my people the hell outta Dodge and to avoid the extermination camps - I would have made a deal with the devil himself.

Some factions amongst the Jews of Palestine believed that there was little chance of that offer succeeding and that it would be best to be seen to be on the side of the Allies rather than the side of the Axis, but it's a good bet that they had to think long and hard about not joining the Stern faction in trying to rescue as many of their people as could in any way imaginable.

I fail to see the 'dastard-liness' in their approach.

 

[Kondor3]

"...If those letters are authentic, they make my blood run cold. However, Kondor's theory sounds correct."

I have done zero reading on this subject but that is the only explanation that makes sense.

It is merely a variation on the survival theme.

In their shoes, I would tell those Nazi bastards whatever-the-hell they wanted to hear, and make a deal with the Devil himself, in order to keep the Escape Hatch (the emmigration pipeline) open as long as humanly possible, to get as many of my People the hell outta there as possible before the Nazis slammed the hatch closed for good.

On the macro level, it's no different than other collaborations between Jews and the Nazis; each and every one of them an interim step or a survival tactic in extremis. I will not judge any such overly-harshly until I know their stories and have walked a mile in their shoes, which, please God, neither I nor anyone else, will ever be obliged to do again.

This monkey-poo-flinging of accusing Jews of collaborating with Nazis are large straw-men in nature and easily set aside as partisan ultra-spin on entirely understandable reactions to unimaginably horrific circumstances.

Another collection of dogs (groundless accusations, out of context) with fleas that just won't hunt.

 

[Hossfly]

georgephillip, et al,

What "exactly" does this means.

Tell us what your non-virulent ideology was trying to tell Hitler about the "assimilationist trend" and the difficulty that presented to the "Jewish condition" in 1933?

"Zionism convicts itself. On June 21, 1933, the German Zionist Federation sent a secret memorandum to the Nazis:

“Zionism has no illusions about the difficulty of the Jewish condition, which consists above all in an abnormal occupational pattern and in the fault of an intellectual and moral posture not rooted in one’s own tradition. Zionism recognized decades ago that as a result of the assimilationist trend, symptoms of deterioration were bound to appear, which it seeks to overcome by carrying out its challenge to transform Jewish life completely."

51 Documents » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

(QUESTIONS)

How is this some sort of confession or conviction?

• the difficulty of the Jewish condition
• abnormal occupational pattern
• the fault of an intellectual and moral posture not rooted in one’s own tradition
• result of the assimilationist trend, symptoms of deterioration were bound to appear
• challenge to transform Jewish life completely

How is any of this harmful?

Most Respectfully,
R

Equating an assimilationist trend with symptoms of deterioration and a faulty moral posture sounds like racist Jews making an appeal to equally racist Aryans. I would say the harm of this kind of ethnic arrogance by a relative small number of psychotic Jews explains why over thousands of years in dozens of states millions of innocent Jews have been maimed, murdered, and displaced by pyschotic killers like Hitler.

Of course Georgie Boy doesn't think it is psychotic for Muslims in the Middle East and Africa to actually kill Blacks. Wny should he care if the Jews are not involved? It looks like the HNIC here doesn't realize that the Jews were used as scapegoats, the same way he uses the Jews. Hmm, I wonder if Georgie Boy can tell us why the Muslims have murdered millions of others since Islam began. In fact, even Georgie Boy (with all the time he spends on forums dissing the Jews and Israel as a career) would not be safe in many Muslim countries because they would have no problems doing an abd in. And, of course, they still keep these abds as slaves in the modern world of today, but that doesn't seem to bother Georgie Boy.

 

[Kondor3]

"..."the higher the zionist climbs>>>the more he's exposed"

Ever get the sinking feeling that you're being ignored?

Have fun in here talkin' to yourself...

 

[georgephillip]

If those letters are authentic, they make my blood run cold. However, Kondor's theory sounds correct.

"In January 1941, Stern attempted to make an agreement with the German Nazi authorities, offering to 'actively take part in the war on Germany's side' in return for German support for Jewish immigration to Palestine and the establishment of a Jewish state.

"Another attempt to contact the Germans was made in late 1941, but there is no record of a German response in either case.[12]

"These appeals to Germany were in direct opposition to the views of other Zionists, such as Ze'ev Jabotinsky, who wanted Britain to defeat the Nazis even as they wanted to expel the British from Palestine."

Avraham Stern - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In early 1941 the Nazis were just beginning to gain proficiency in the industrial process of mass murder as they exterminated hundreds of thousands of Jews and others in their sweep across Russia.

It's possible that Stern would not have made his offer a year later when the SS began implementing Hitler's Final Solution in his homeland, Poland.

Puh-leeeeze, George...

It is quite clear that that faction of the Palestinian Jewish Activist community differed dramatically from the larger percentage of factions which continued to support the British.

And, for that smaller faction, we are looking at Jews offering to fight the British in Palestine in return for allowing the Jews to continue to emmigrate to Palestine rather than slaughtering them.

Gee... imagine that... I'll start harassing and sniping at our common enemy (Britain) here on my own home turf if you'll keep the emmigration pipeline open and let my People go.

Given that various factions of the Palestinian Jews were already trying to push the Brits out of Palestine long before WWII even began, and given that even more too to that approach after WWII ended and before their 1948 Declaration of Statehood...

Why should we be surprised that a faction of the Jews of Palestine offered to hit the Brits as best they could in exchange for the lives of their fellow Jews?

And, because that deal fell through and was exposed, that faction took some considerable Public Relations hits in the months and years go come, being pitched as disloyal, when, in truth, they were being ultimately loyal to their own co-religionists at the (offered) expense of their Mandate Occuipers.

In their shoes - in a desperate last-minute attempt to get my people the hell outta Dodge and to avoid the extermination camps - I would have made a deal with the devil himself.

Some factions amongst the Jews of Palestine believed that there was little chance of that offer succeeding and that it would be best to be seen to be on the side of the Allies rather than the side of the Axis, but it's a good bet that they had to think long and hard about not joining the Stern faction in trying to rescue as many of their people as could in any way imaginable.

I fail to see the 'dastard-liness' in their approach.

You fail to see the evil in stealing Arab land for the benefit of Hitler's victims?
Maybe Lord Rothschild could help you understand Zionism's sordid past.

"1. Common interests could exist between the establishment of a new order in Europe in conformity with the German concept, and the true national aspirations of the Jewish people as they are embodied by the NMO.

"2. Cooperation between the new Germany and a renewed folkish-national Hebraium would be possible and,

"3. The establishment of the historic Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, bound by a treaty with the German Reich, would be in the interest of a maintained and strengthened future German position of power in the Near East.

"Proceeding from these considerations, the NMO in Palestine, under the condition the above-mentioned national aspirations of the Israeli freedom movement are recognized on the side of the German Reich, offers to actively take part in the war on Germany’s side.”

"They hanged people all over Europe after WW II for notes to the Nazis like these. But these treasons against the Jews were virtually unknown in the run up to the creation of the Zionist state in May 1948.

"Ninety percent of America’s Jews suddenly became emotional pro-Zionists. With Democrats, Republicans and even the Communist-organized Progressive Party competing for Jewish votes in the November Presidential election, Harry Truman’s monetary aid bought arms from pro-Soviet Czechoslovakia, and an Israel was born, run by the German Zionists’ cothinkers in Jerusalem.

"Jews and other Americans still know little of Zionism’s sordid past."
51 Documents » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

 

[Kondor3]

"...I fail to see the 'dastard-liness' in their approach."

"You fail to see the evil in stealing Arab land for the benefit of Hitler's victims?..."

We were not talking about land-conquest or land-stealing.

We were talking about your accusations of so-called 'treason' by a faction of the Palestinian Jews against the wider European Jewish Community.

Accusations which I easily and logically counterpointed, here: http://www.usmessageboard.com/israel-and-palestine/305058-is-israel-the-same-as-south-africa-90.html#post7847653 .

 

[georgephillip]

"...I fail to see the 'dastard-liness' in their approach."

"You fail to see the evil in stealing Arab land for the benefit of Hitler's victims?..."

We were not talking about land-conquest or land-stealing.

We were talking about your accusations of so-called 'treason' by a faction of the Palestinian Jews against the wider European Jewish Community.

Accusations which I easily and logically counterpointed, here: http://www.usmessageboard.com/israel-and-palestine/305058-is-israel-the-same-as-south-africa-90.html#post7847653 .

We were talking about illegal Jewish immigrants from Europe taking the homes and land of indigenous Arab Palestinians. Why do you suppose 99% of those migrants would have preferred coming to the USA instead of England's "little loyal Jewish Ulster" in Palestine?

 

[Kondor3]

"You fail to see the evil in stealing Arab land for the benefit of Hitler's victims?..."

We were not talking about land-conquest or land-stealing.

We were talking about your accusations of so-called 'treason' by a faction of the Palestinian Jews against the wider European Jewish Community.

Accusations which I easily and logically counterpointed, here: http://www.usmessageboard.com/israel-and-palestine/305058-is-israel-the-same-as-south-africa-90.html#post7847653 .

We were talking about illegal Jewish immigrants from Europe taking the homes and land of indigenous Arab Palestinians. Why do you suppose 99% of those migrants would have preferred coming to the USA instead of England's "little loyal Jewish Ulster" in Palestine?

We were obviously talking about different things.

YOU wanted to steer the conversation back to land-grabs.

I wanted to refute your charges of Treason by one Jewish faction against the other.

Which I did.

Doesn't matter.

Feel free to steer the conversation back in that direction, now that the Treason charge is off the table.

 

[thetor]

"..."the higher the zionist climbs>>>the more he's exposed"

Ever get the sinking feeling that you're being ignored?

Have fun in here talkin' to yourself...

Why don't you answer the original question

 

[Kondor3]

I don't interact well with drunks, trolls, propaganda shills or sock-puppets.