Is it fair to have pit bulls around other people?

[manifold]

Just because a dog like a pitbull can inflict a seriously damaging bite does not diminish the damage any large powerful breed of dog can do when it bites.

Do a bit of research before you make statements like "all fighting dogs are pits". There are a number of breeds bred for fighting and bred for attacking and killing things. Many terriers fall into that category and, there are many pits who's heritage is far removed from fighting and are quite sociable with other dogs.

Tell me again how many of Vick's dogs weren't pit bulls?


Oh yeah, none.

Since almost all of Vick's dogs were rehabilitated and adopted as family pets, epic fail on your part.

Define pit bull. How do you determine what dogs are pit bulls and which aren't? If you're going to have breed specific laws you have to be able to be specific about what a pit bull is. How does law enforcement prove a certain dog is a pit bull. Many types of dogs share similar characteristics to the so-called pit bull.

"Family" pets my ass.

At least not families with kids anyway.

And Pit bulls are like racism and pornography... I know one when I see one.

 

[manifold]

. Basically what they said is that the canine genetic code is unique in the animal kingdom in how easily manipulated it is. It only takes 2 or 3 generations to geneticaly engineer pretty much exactly what you're looking for.

When you have created a dachshund from Great Dane grandparents get back to us.

Strawman fail.

 

[Anguille]

Bullshit.

Dogs once weren't domesticated either. Do you know how they became domesticated?

I bet you do. It's called BREEDING.

Now tell me again how breeding doesn't matter.

Wrong. They became domesticated through evolution. I suppose you believe in Intelligent Design as well.

Yeah, they just naturally evolved to serve humans.

Where do you come up with this shit?

I bother to educate myself on subjects before blowing hot air like you do.


The bulk of the scientific evidence for the evolution of the domestic dog stems from archaeological findings and mitochondrial DNA studies. The divergence date of roughly 15000 years ago is based in part on archaeological evidence that demonstrates that the domestication of dogs occurred more than 15,000 years ago,[3][18] and some genetic evidence indicates that the domestication of dogs from their wolf ancestors began in the late Upper Paleolithic close to the Pleistocene/Holocene boundary, between 17,000 and 14,000 years ago.[22] But there is a wide range of other, contradictory findings that make this issue controversial.
Archaeological evidence plays a large role in this debate. In 2008, a team of international scientists released findings from an excavation at Goyet Cave in Belgium declaring that a large, toothy canine existed 31,700 years ago and ate a diet of horse, musk ox and reindeer.[23] Prior to this Belgium discovery, the earliest dog fossils were two large skulls from Russia and a mandible[3][21] Remains of smaller dogs from Natufian cave deposits in the Middle East, including the earliest burial of a human being with a domestic dog, have been dated to around 10,000 to 12,000 years ago.[21][24] There is a great deal of archaeological evidence for dogs throughout Europe and Asia around this period and through the next two thousand years (roughly 8,000 to 10,000 years ago), with fossils uncovered in Germany, the French Alps, and Iraq, and cave paintings in Turkey.[3] from Germany, that dated from roughly 14,000 years ago.
Dog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Anguille]

I have a grand Idea.

If the breed is legal and you think it is dangerous dont go near the dog.

I think this thread is about making some breeds illegal.
Pandering to those with phobias about certain breeds.

 

[manifold]

Wrong. They became domesticated through evolution. I suppose you believe in Intelligent Design as well.

Yeah, they just naturally evolved to serve humans.

Where do you come up with this shit?

I bother to educate myself on subjects before blowing hot air like you do.


The bulk of the scientific evidence for the evolution of the domestic dog stems from archaeological findings and mitochondrial DNA studies. The divergence date of roughly 15000 years ago is based in part on archaeological evidence that demonstrates that the domestication of dogs occurred more than 15,000 years ago,[3][18] and some genetic evidence indicates that the domestication of dogs from their wolf ancestors began in the late Upper Paleolithic close to the Pleistocene/Holocene boundary, between 17,000 and 14,000 years ago.[22] But there is a wide range of other, contradictory findings that make this issue controversial.
Archaeological evidence plays a large role in this debate. In 2008, a team of international scientists released findings from an excavation at Goyet Cave in Belgium declaring that a large, toothy canine existed 31,700 years ago and ate a diet of horse, musk ox and reindeer.[23] Prior to this Belgium discovery, the earliest dog fossils were two large skulls from Russia and a mandible[3][21] Remains of smaller dogs from Natufian cave deposits in the Middle East, including the earliest burial of a human being with a domestic dog, have been dated to around 10,000 to 12,000 years ago.[21][24] There is a great deal of archaeological evidence for dogs throughout Europe and Asia around this period and through the next two thousand years (roughly 8,000 to 10,000 years ago), with fossils uncovered in Germany, the French Alps, and Iraq, and cave paintings in Turkey.[3] from Germany, that dated from roughly 14,000 years ago.
Dog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your efforts to educate yourself are indeed commendable. It's just too bad that you lack the ability to comprehend what you read.

Oh well. *shrug*

 

[Anguille]

Tell me again how many of Vick's dogs weren't pit bulls?


Oh yeah, none.

Since almost all of Vick's dogs were rehabilitated and adopted as family pets, epic fail on your part.

Define pit bull. How do you determine what dogs are pit bulls and which aren't? If you're going to have breed specific laws you have to be able to be specific about what a pit bull is. How does law enforcement prove a certain dog is a pit bull. Many types of dogs share similar characteristics to the so-called pit bull.

"Family" pets my ass.

At least not families with kids anyway.

And Pit bulls are like racism and pornography... I know one when I see one.

Yeah and stupid bitch wives.

 

[Douger]

It does not depend on the dog at all. It depends on how the dog was raised or trained. Pit Bulls are sweet dogs unless raised wrong. They wouldn't hurt a fly. There are exceptions. For example if you have a pit on a chain it is advisable to not let people approach it suddenly. The dog knows it is stuck and may react in a defensive manner if approached quickly or unexpectedly while on a chain.

What you feed the pit and how you treat it all help determine how it acts. Which is true of most any dog.

Hey. There is a first time for everything.
I fully agree with Sarge.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Wolves and Grizzly bears are not domesticated animals. No comparison.

Bullshit.

Dogs once weren't domesticated either. Do you know how they became domesticated?

I bet you do. It's called BREEDING.

Now tell me again how breeding doesn't matter.

Wrong. They became domesticated through evolution. I suppose you believe in Intelligent Design as well.

 

[manifold]

I have a grand Idea.

If the breed is legal and you think it is dangerous dont go near the dog.

I think this thread is about making some breeds illegal.
Pandering to those with phobias about certain breeds.

I don't support making any breeds illegal.

But I am for example, open to the idea of a mandatory muzzling law for any dog rescued from a dog fighting operation, regardless of the breed.

 

[Ravi]

I have a grand Idea.

If the breed is legal and you think it is dangerous dont go near the dog.

That'd be fine except for the inconsiderate owners of pit bulls...for instance, my neighbor walks his flipping pink rat dog on a leash and often "accidentally" lets the pit loose.

 

[Anguille]

I have a grand Idea.

If the breed is legal and you think it is dangerous dont go near the dog.

I think this thread is about making some breeds illegal.
Pandering to those with phobias about certain breeds.

I don't support making any breeds illegal.

But I am for example, open to the idea of a mandatory muzzling law for any dog rescued from a dog fighting operation, regardless of the breed.

So why are you going on and on about how pit bulls are the devil incarnate?

I am in favor of laws requiring muzzles for dogs that have demonstrated unprovoked and dangerously aggressive behavior to other dogs or humans.

Dogs from fighting operations have been provoked. Also bait dogs from those operations should not be lumped in with the ones trained to fight.


I wish more owners would voluntarily chose to muzzle their dogs if the dogs have given indications they might bite someone. It's a safer option than thinking you can always keep hold of the leash or that some kid isn't going to taunt your dog while it's chained up.

 

[manifold]

I think this thread is about making some breeds illegal.
Pandering to those with phobias about certain breeds.

I don't support making any breeds illegal.

But I am for example, open to the idea of a mandatory muzzling law for any dog rescued from a dog fighting operation, regardless of the breed.

So why are you going on and on about how pit bulls are the devil incarnate?

I am in favor of laws requiring muzzles for dogs that have demonstrated unprovoked and dangerously aggressive behavior to other dogs or humans.

Dogs from fighting operations have been provoked. Also bait dogs from those operations should not be lumped in with the ones trained to fight.


I wish more owners would voluntarily chose to muzzle their dogs if the dogs have given indications they might bite someone. It's a safer option than thinking you can always keep hold of the leash or that some kid isn't going to taunt your dog while it's chained up.

Puh-leez! On and on about devil incarnate my ass.

A. I like to antogonize. check!

B. From a purely academic standpoint I disagree with what I consider to be a completely retarded premise... that breeding doesn't matter.

 

[Anguille]

Cows killed over 3 times as many people as pit bulls did in 2008.

 

[Anguille]

I don't support making any breeds illegal.

But I am for example, open to the idea of a mandatory muzzling law for any dog rescued from a dog fighting operation, regardless of the breed.

So why are you going on and on about how pit bulls are the devil incarnate?

I am in favor of laws requiring muzzles for dogs that have demonstrated unprovoked and dangerously aggressive behavior to other dogs or humans.

Dogs from fighting operations have been provoked. Also bait dogs from those operations should not be lumped in with the ones trained to fight.


I wish more owners would voluntarily chose to muzzle their dogs if the dogs have given indications they might bite someone. It's a safer option than thinking you can always keep hold of the leash or that some kid isn't going to taunt your dog while it's chained up.

Puh-leez! On and on about devil incarnate my ass.

A. I like to antogonize. check!

B. From a purely academic standpoint I disagree with what I consider to be a completely retarded premise... that breeding doesn't matter.

Of course, breeding makes a difference. It just doesn't make a significant amount of difference to warrant breed specific laws or phobias either.

 

[manifold]

Cows killed over 3 times as many people as pit bulls did in 2008.

Link?

 

[manifold]

So why are you going on and on about how pit bulls are the devil incarnate?

I am in favor of laws requiring muzzles for dogs that have demonstrated unprovoked and dangerously aggressive behavior to other dogs or humans.

Dogs from fighting operations have been provoked. Also bait dogs from those operations should not be lumped in with the ones trained to fight.


I wish more owners would voluntarily chose to muzzle their dogs if the dogs have given indications they might bite someone. It's a safer option than thinking you can always keep hold of the leash or that some kid isn't going to taunt your dog while it's chained up.

Puh-leez! On and on about devil incarnate my ass.

A. I like to antogonize. check!

B. From a purely academic standpoint I disagree with what I consider to be a completely retarded premise... that breeding doesn't matter.

Of course, breeding makes a difference. It just doesn't make a significant amount of difference to warrant breed specific laws or phobias either.

When it comes to the amount of damage a dog can inflict if it snaps, IT MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

 

[Coyote]

I don't support making any breeds illegal.

But I am for example, open to the idea of a mandatory muzzling law for any dog rescued from a dog fighting operation, regardless of the breed.

So why are you going on and on about how pit bulls are the devil incarnate?

I am in favor of laws requiring muzzles for dogs that have demonstrated unprovoked and dangerously aggressive behavior to other dogs or humans.

Dogs from fighting operations have been provoked. Also bait dogs from those operations should not be lumped in with the ones trained to fight.


I wish more owners would voluntarily chose to muzzle their dogs if the dogs have given indications they might bite someone. It's a safer option than thinking you can always keep hold of the leash or that some kid isn't going to taunt your dog while it's chained up.

Puh-leez! On and on about devil incarnate my ass.

A. I like to antogonize. check!

B. From a purely academic standpoint I disagree with what I consider to be a completely retarded premise... that breeding doesn't matter.

Ok. I'll agree with you - breeding does matter.

But, if you truly believe that, than you would have to concede that where it matters is at the level of the individual dog.

If you don't breed a dog to a specific purpose for multiple generations, certain qualities get lost. I know this is true with herding dogs - if you don't breed for work, you may retain some basic instincts such as a desire to want to control movement but you will lose the qualities that create that allow the dog to keep working in the face of pressure, keep stock grouped, hold them to a place or go long distances to find them. I imagine that is also true in the various breeds called "pitbulls". If you are not fighting them, you are not preserving that high level of dog-to-dog aggression, gameness and whatever other attributes go along with what makes a fighting dog. The vast number "pitbulls" are bred primarily as pets and have been for many generations (a look at old pictures will show you that the pit was a popular family dog)...and it would explain why out of 5 million pits there are only a handfull (literally) of fatal attacks and maimings.

My biggest issue - along with those attempting to portray all pitbulls as a ticking time bomb is with the breeders. Pitbull breeders need to get together and rescue their "breed". They need to downplay the logging-chain/spike-collar/macho family protector image, select for the characteristics that make pitbulls great and select away from high levels of dog-to-dog aggression which has no place in world today. They need to group together and agree on codes of ethics and condemn the street-fighting-drug-thug breeders who are deliberately trying to breed for a highly aggressive dog. Thus far those are the distinct minority, but they are the ones that generate all the press. The non-AKC border collie people were successfull in maintaining their breed's working heritage and promoting working breeding programs...I don't see why pitbull breeders can't do similar in defining their breed. Maybe they are though, but that just isn't as interesting to the media and bloody hunks of flesh.

 

[Coyote]

Someone could find a wolf pup or a grizzley cub and raise it to be a well adjusted and friendly family pet.

It doesn't make it a good idea.

Wolves and Grizzly bears are not domesticated animals. No comparison.

Bullshit.

Dogs once weren't domesticated either. Do you know how they became domesticated?

I bet you do. It's called BREEDING.

Now tell me again how breeding doesn't matter.

Reality check:

Dog history has been studied recently using mitochondrial DNA, which suggests that wolves and dogs split into different species around 100,000 years ago.

....It seems clear that dog domestication was a long process, which started far longer ago than was believed even as recently as 2008. Based on evidence from Goyet and Chauvet caves in Europe, the dog domestication process probably began as long ago as 30,000 years, although the oldest evidence for a broader relationship, a working relationship, is the the Bonn-Oberkassel site, 14,000 years ago. The story of dog domestication is still in transition itself.

That is a lot of generations of canines and makes the comparison of pitbulls to wolves or grizzlies yet more ludicrous.

Selective breeding came along a lot later - a whole lot later.

Ever wonder why some animals become domesticated and others never do no matter how hard we try?

 

[Coyote]

Tell me again how many of Vick's dogs weren't pit bulls?


Oh yeah, none.

Since almost all of Vick's dogs were rehabilitated and adopted as family pets, epic fail on your part.

Define pit bull. How do you determine what dogs are pit bulls and which aren't? If you're going to have breed specific laws you have to be able to be specific about what a pit bull is. How does law enforcement prove a certain dog is a pit bull. Many types of dogs share similar characteristics to the so-called pit bull.

"Family" pets my ass.

At least not families with kids anyway.

And Pit bulls are like racism and pornography... I know one when I see one.

Actually...it's rather interesting what happened with them. Surprisingly few were put down due to excessive aggression. A bigger problem was their lack of socialization and issues related to abusive treatment.

Second Chance for the Michael Vick Dogs : Meet the Rescued Pit Bulls
Michael Vick Fighting Dogs Get "Rehab" Care

 

[Coyote]

I have a grand Idea.

If the breed is legal and you think it is dangerous dont go near the dog.

I think this thread is about making some breeds illegal.
Pandering to those with phobias about certain breeds.

I don't support making any breeds illegal.

But I am for example, open to the idea of a mandatory muzzling law for any dog rescued from a dog fighting operation, regardless of the breed.

If you made a mandatory muzzling law - it should be for any breed of dog over a certain size. Bad temperment and reactivity don't necessarily stem from fighting. Italy (I think) has such a law for dogs out in public places - which makes sense.

However - the other side of it is most dog bite incidents occur in the owners home or property, and is a family member so muzzling wouldn't make a difference - you can't keep a muzzle on long term.