Is it moral for God to punish us?

[Steven_R]

God had a perfect plan for us.
We rejected it.

What's this "we" shit? I was never asked.

The whole story makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Bonzi]

God had a perfect plan for us.
We rejected it.

What's this "we" shit? I was never asked.

The whole story makes no sense whatsoever.

think of it this way.....

you have a kid, you set them up for life, but they say "nah, I want to waste my money, have unprotected sex and live it up instead"...... guess what happens? Instead of having a good life, they make a mess of it .... some possibly irreversible.

At least God gave us an "out" - Jesus.

 

[Steven_R]

That makes no sense. God gives people free will, knowing before he even creates people that we'll use it (because God is omniscient), and then punishes us for it. God sets us up for failure and then beats the shit out of us for it.

 

[Bonzi]

That makes no sense. God gives people free will, knowing before he even creates people that we'll use it (because God is omniscient), and then punishes us for it. God sets us up for failure and then beats the shit out of us for it.

The idea of God's omniscience and our freewill is something the human mind can not process, yet, they are both true......

We have to acknowledge that there are things and concepts our minds are unable to grasp and understand.

If you don't accept that, or are unwilling to even acknowledge that possibility, it would be difficult but through the grace of God to move you toward him and an understanding and acceptance of Him and His ways....

 

[Asclepias]

Disagree. God sets the standards so only god can say what he/she does is immoral.

You cannot judge what is immoral! Wow.

But you have chosen to believe God to be moral which contradicts what you said.

Regards
DL

Read again slowly. I said you cant call god immoral because he/she sets the standards of whats moral.

 

[Asclepias]

God had a perfect plan for us.
We rejected it.

What's this "we" shit? I was never asked.

The whole story makes no sense whatsoever.

Thats because your ancestors were too stupid to get the correct message.

 

[Unkotare]

God doesn't punish us, we do. That's kinda the point.

 

[Unkotare]

God had a perfect plan for us.
We rejected it.

What's this "we" shit? I was never asked.

Yeah, you were.

 

[GreatestIam]

God had a perfect plan for us.
We rejected it.

We rejected slavery.

look at what he did to A & E when they did their free will instead of God's will.

Freedom is good. Stop wanting to be a slave.

Regards
DL

You will always hold a special place for me on USBM. I believe you are one of the first I talked to on here... we'll never agree, but I appreciate your well thought out comments and posts....

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

That is what happens when you we see that God's plan is to destroy the vast majority of us while only saving the few.

Ah, but God's plan is not about destruction. God loves all of us.

Yet most are on the wide road to hell.

Some love.

Now you seem to be ignoring one of Christianity's dogma. Oh well. I can't blame you for dropping some of the garbage you have had to swallow.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

God had a perfect plan for us.
We rejected it.

We rejected slavery.

look at what he did to A & E when they did their free will instead of God's will.

Freedom is good. Stop wanting to be a slave.

Regards
DL

The irony is freedom IS following God.
Otherwise, we are slaves to our own desires which are bad for us.

Just because you are weak does not mean we all are.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Is it wrong to punish yourself before God gets around to it?

God is sovereign. Can't be done.

Sovereign?

Did he not give Satan dominion over us?

Regards
DL

Are you questioning God?
What makes you think you are smarter than He is?

What make you think you are not?

Are you that much more stupid than A & E?

They became as Gods in the knowing of good and evil. So have I.

Why can't you?

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Just for clarification, precisely how does God punish us? And for which infractions are we punished?

Are the suggestions about hurricanes disrupting tourist season in Florida being a result of Disney's stance on homosexual employees such an example? Does God send down His wrath in the form of natural disasters, or is it more subtle and personal as was the case with Job?

Where can we examine the wrath of God as punishment?

I was thinking more of after our death but if you want to bring it to earth, try King David's baby that God tortured for 6 days before finally murdering.

Was punishing that baby, because God was angry with Kind David, a good and just punishment?

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

God has no problem destroying mankind or punishing men but he lets his creation, angel satan, create havoc but won't destroy or remove him from the lives of humans?

Just think, we might not be as sinful if satan had been destroyed when he first disobeyed.....in theory.

Satan was supposed to bow down to man not lead him into temptation or torment him.

According to the bible, we have been wiped out by floods, angels of death, disease, famines, war, and massacres, but satan is allowed to play games with mankind and steal our souls?

God should have foreseen all that as well before creating satan or giving him the position as advocate.
All seeing, he should have just never made that angel, or those that followed him. We might still be living in a garden.

If you believe in a god to begin with.

God goofed. No so all powerful or all knowing as the myths would make it to be.

God has always had a hard time living up to his press.

It is almost as if priests and imams all lie about him.

But that cannot be as they are not in it for the money or boy sex. Well not all of them.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

God has no problem destroying mankind or punishing men but he lets his creation, angel satan, create havoc but won't destroy or remove him from the lives of humans?

Just think, we might not be as sinful if satan had been destroyed when he first disobeyed.....in theory.

Satan was supposed to bow down to man not lead him into temptation or torment him.

According to the bible, we have been wiped out by floods, angels of death, disease, famines, war, and massacres, but satan is allowed to play games with mankind and steal our souls?

God should have foreseen all that as well before creating satan or giving him the position as advocate.
All seeing, he should have just never made that angel, or those that followed him. We might still be living in a garden.

If you believe in a god to begin with.

God goofed. No so all powerful or all knowing as the myths would make it to be.

God has always had a hard time living up to his press.

It is almost as if priests and imams all lie about him.

But that cannot be as they are not in it for the money or boy sex. Well not all of them.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

God had a perfect plan for us.
We rejected it.

What's this "we" shit? I was never asked.

The whole story makes no sense whatsoever.

think of it this way.....

you have a kid, you set them up for life, but they say "nah, I want to waste my money, have unprotected sex and live it up instead"...... guess what happens? Instead of having a good life, they make a mess of it .... some possibly irreversible.

At least God gave us an "out" - Jesus.

And those with satanic morals will take that out showing how their religion has corrupted their morals.

Human sacrifice is evil and your God demanding one and accepting one is evil.

You trying to profit from that evil is evil. Do just a bit of thinking and you will agree.

Imagine you have two children. One of your children does something wrong – say it curses, or throws a temper tantrum, or something like that. In fact, say it does this on a regular basis, and you continually forgive your child, but it never seems to change.

Now suppose one day you’ve had enough, you need to do something different. You still wish to forgive your child, but nothing has worked. Do you go to your second child, your good child, and punish it to atone for the sins of the first?

In fact, if you ever saw a parent on the street punish one of their children for the actions of their other child, how would you react? Would you support their decision, or would you be offended? Because God punished Jesus -- his good child -- for the sins of his other children.

Interestingly, some historical royal families would beat their slaves when their own children did wrong – you should not, after all, ever beat a prince. The question is: what kind of lesson does that teach the child who actually did the harm? Does it teach them to be a better person, to stop doing harm, or does it teach them both that they won't themselves be punished, and also that punishing other people is normal? I know that's not a lesson I would want to teach my children, and I suspect it's not a lesson most Christians would want to teach theirs. So why does God?

For me, that’s at least one significant reason I find Jesus’ atonement of our sin to be morally repugnant – of course, that’s assuming Jesus ever existed; that original sin actually exists; that God actually exists; etc.

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

Do you agree?

If not, please show how it is morally and legally good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty, bearing in mind that all legal systems think that punishing the guilty is what is justice.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

That makes no sense. God gives people free will, knowing before he even creates people that we'll use it (because God is omniscient), and then punishes us for it. God sets us up for failure and then beats the shit out of us for it.

Basically -------- correct.

And Christians adore that prick.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Disagree. God sets the standards so only god can say what he/she does is immoral.

You cannot judge what is immoral! Wow.

But you have chosen to believe God to be moral which contradicts what you said.

Regards
DL

Read again slowly. I said you cant call god immoral because he/she sets the standards of whats moral.

Read slowly. You cannot know that as a fact.

Stop lying.

But tell us. Is it a good moral standard to torture a baby for 6 days when God is angry with the father?

Regards
DL

 

[freemind]

Is it moral for God to punish us?

Is it moral for an all-knowing and all-powerful God to set in motion a history that he designs and then condemns others for?

We live in a history that God has set up and is fully responsible for. God, punishing man, who can do nothing but follow God’s plan and the nature God has put in us, is having innocent people suffer for the wrongs God himself has pre-destined and which cannot be altered.

For example.

God chose to have Jesus sacrificed. God, in his planning book would also have decided who would kill Jesus. There would be no way for that man to not kill Jesus or God’s plan would fall off the rails and in this case, we would not have a messiah or scapegoat to ride into heaven.

Some will say we have free will but as shown in the example above, Jesus’ killer could not refrain from killing Jesus without derailing God’s plan. Further, to pre-destine any one action or condition within a history changes all other conditions and pre-destines all conditions within the plan. Think the butterfly effect.

Having said the above and having shown that we have no free will if anything is pre-destined, I think it would be quite immoral for God to judge or punish us for being and doing exactly what he pre-ordained for us in his plan. We have no choice and to punish us is immoral.

Do you agree?

If not, why not?

Regards
DL

Greatestiam,
I hate to be the bearer of bad news. But there is no such thing as god.

 

[GreatestIam]

God doesn't punish us, we do. That's kinda the point.

How exactly do you punish yourself?

Is self-abuse a family trait of yours?

Regards
DL