Is it possible for atheism to ever be anything more than critical theory?

[ding]

Plus the other problem with atheism is that it is a purely political stunt. Mostly used by Marxist political strategists. In contrast, religions offer personal enrichment.

Huh... I never got the memo on the Marxist thing.

The Socialist Phenomenon by Igor Shafarevich

 

[dblack]

Plus the other problem with atheism is that it is a purely political stunt. Mostly used by Marxist political strategists. In contrast, religions offer personal enrichment.

Huh... I never got the memo on the Marxist thing.

The Socialist Phenomenon by Igor Shafarevich

tl;dr

Atheism isn't a political ideology. It's a lack of belief in gods. Your strawman is growing wings.

 

[ding]

Plus the other problem with atheism is that it is a purely political stunt. Mostly used by Marxist political strategists. In contrast, religions offer personal enrichment.

Huh... I never got the memo on the Marxist thing.

The Socialist Phenomenon by Igor Shafarevich

tl;dr

Atheism isn't a political ideology. It's a lack of belief in gods. Your strawman is growing wings.

Ignorance is as ignorance does.

 

[ding]

Plus the other problem with atheism is that it is a purely political stunt. Mostly used by Marxist political strategists. In contrast, religions offer personal enrichment.

Huh... I never got the memo on the Marxist thing.

The Socialist Phenomenon by Igor Shafarevich

tl;dr

Atheism isn't a political ideology. It's a lack of belief in gods. Your strawman is growing wings.

Throughout our nation's history, churches have done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government. This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people's allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before putting their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation's Christian heritage. Dr. Ron Paul

 

[ding]

Plus the other problem with atheism is that it is a purely political stunt. Mostly used by Marxist political strategists. In contrast, religions offer personal enrichment.

Huh... I never got the memo on the Marxist thing.

The Socialist Phenomenon by Igor Shafarevich

tl;dr

Atheism isn't a political ideology. It's a lack of belief in gods. Your strawman is growing wings.

The propaganda of atheism is necessary for our programs. Vladimir Lenin

 

[ding]

Plus the other problem with atheism is that it is a purely political stunt. Mostly used by Marxist political strategists. In contrast, religions offer personal enrichment.

Huh... I never got the memo on the Marxist thing.

The Socialist Phenomenon by Igor Shafarevich

tl;dr

Atheism isn't a political ideology. It's a lack of belief in gods. Your strawman is growing wings.

Communism is naturalized humanism. Karl Marx

 

[ding]

Plus the other problem with atheism is that it is a purely political stunt. Mostly used by Marxist political strategists. In contrast, religions offer personal enrichment.

Huh... I never got the memo on the Marxist thing.

The Socialist Phenomenon by Igor Shafarevich

tl;dr

Atheism isn't a political ideology. It's a lack of belief in gods. Your strawman is growing wings.

My wings have quite a bit of substance behind them. I can go on for days with these testimonials.

George Washington
Farewell Address, Sept 17, 1796

“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports...In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens...”

“…And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion...reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.”

The Will of the People: Readings in American Democracy (Chicago: Great Books Foundation, 2001), 38.

 

[dblack]

We need a wall to keep out the atheists. A yuge wall.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

I don't believe it is possible for atheism to ever be anything more than critical theory because there is no affirmative case for atheism. The only argument of atheism is to argue against religion and to criticize religion.

So my question is... Is it possible for atheism to ever be anything more than critical theory?

Atheism isn’t a “critical” theory, whatever it is you mean by that; only because atheism isn’t a theory. You’re right in saying that there is no affirmative case for atheism.

Atheism is a rejection of the affirmative case for a god or gods. It’s the null hypothesis. Atheism is just scepticism of the claims made for a god or gods. It’s just being unconvinced. It’s simply not having a belief.

That’s it - nothing more.

It isn’t materialism, though many atheists do subscribe to materialism. It isn’t philosophical naturalism, though many atheists do subscribe to that as well. It isn’t what believers call “scientism”, though some atheists do think the scientific method is the best way to ascertain truth - lower case t.

If you want to know what an atheist believes or doesn’t, beyond whether or not a god or gods exist, you have to ask them.

Some are communists while others wholeheartedly believe in laissez-faire capitalism. Some believe in ghosts, psychic powers, chakras, and telepathy. Some think anything explained using the supernatural as the explanation is baseless superstition and lazy thinking. Some hate LGBTQ people and are racists, others want to promote tolerance. Some are hardcore traditional conservatives, others are freewheeling liberals. Some want an authoritarian government while others are anarchists. Some want to rid the world of religion while others respect and admire religion.

To try to categorize atheists and atheism beyond the god question is to make a bold but foolhardy assumption. I suggest you don’t as you will probably be wrong in that assumption.

Yes, atheism isn’t critical theory. The practice of atheism will never go beyond the practice of critical theory.

It seems as though you believe you’ve scored some point against atheism using the term “critical theory”, but I’m afraid you haven’t. Atheism isn’t a practice, it’s a rejection of a practice.

I have to agree with you that there is no affirmative case for atheism. The point of your OP is that atheism has no positive argument for itself and all arguments for it are actually critiques of another position. That is true because one cannot prove a negative.

But that fact isn’t a mark against atheism anymore than it is against any other belief. For example, I don’t believe in big foot. Does that mean I am in a weaker position than one who does believe in big foot? I am not a practitioner of Islam - I don’t believe in Allah or the claims made by Muslims or their prophet Muhammed. Does that work against me in someway? No.

Until the claims of a religion or belief convince me of the veracity of those claims, I remain unconvinced. Simple as that.

Scored a point? It’s not a game. Just the nature of atheism. Atheists can only confirm their beliefs by criticizing the beliefs of others. They have no other options.

You have a basic misunderstanding of atheism: it isn’t a belief. It’s the rejection of a certain set of beliefs. Well, I guess that isn’t entirely accurate - some atheists do believe there isn’t a god or gods. But Most atheists, on the other hand, simply aren’t convinced God or gods exist. It’s not that there isn’t a god or gods, it’s that there isn’t a belief in God or gods for that person. That is why one might consider oneself an atheist.

So by criticizing (or if I may: critiquing) claims for God or gods isn’t confirming a belief, for most atheists it’s simply being skeptical of the claims being made. And atheists are not unique in that at all.

Everyone at some point in their lives has been skeptical of something someone else said for any number of reasons.

 

[Mike Dwight]

atheism is an ism with a definite positive affirmation , that way Chinese communist is atheism, come to America be super caring and be agnostic, which is, not caring or identifying. oh come on previous poster, so you never will sum up your convictions, actions, and beliefs and say, down with the religions! everybody has religion, Africans come here and say the americans worship the cars. "Beliefs" Is some magic word for you. some believe string theory and some believe quantum mechanics from Einstein and some reserve judgment because they hadn't read the Whole Bible yet. The WHOLE bible. i'm talking about numvers 8:5 in a historical-critical context, taken from greek scrolls, obviously was thinking about taking a poop, when he wrote in a way that refers to 36 ad Thank God its Fridays. the Lord in that day and time meant chooping off your penis more like say hello to gay couples. actually just trust the child molestor in the biggest hat talking about a bunny on easter and a pumpkin on Halloween.

 

[Karl Rand]

[ding :QUOTE]
Throughout our nation's history, churches have done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government. This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people's allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before putting their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation's Christian heritage. Dr. Ron Paul[/QUOTE]
Where to start with that pile of bullshit?
Maybe we could examine the assertion ‘churches have done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility'? How anyone can make such a claim in the light of the last decade’s exposure of those in ministry being rampant pedophiles while the church actively covered their tracks and gave them shelter? Mind boggling. The apologists however can always blame Satan. What an asset to theological gibberish that little superstition is.
Academic theologians have approached this question with the usual slight of hand, and not simply because it questions church doctrine. They tell us even asking such questions is instigated from the dark heart of Satan himself disguised in the language of dispassionate intellect. A heart of darkness of which we are supposedly not aware. They often go on to suggest intellect is not in itself diabolical but divorced from the truth of the gospels it fails to comprehend the complete cosmic picture and falls into error.
Tell us another fairy story.
_______________________________________________________________________

(Mark Dwight, I’d try and answer your post but I can’t understand what it is you’re saying.)

 

[edthecynic]

I have no beliefs to validate, I'm a nonbeliever. The burden of proof is on the believer.

You just did in post #180.

you really need to learn the English language!

Evil, Created In The Image Of God.

Lying suits you. Praise God!

So you are saying Adolph Hitler was made in the image of God, and not God in the image of Hitler.
Thank you.

That's right, all evil is an image of God.

Keep on lying, you are making your god very proud!

You God of lies must be very proud of you.

God and Satan are one and the same

your impotent God can't change the past, the same Super God who made him torture and murder his only begotten son

All of that comes straight from the bible, so it is the bible attacking religion, not me for actually knowing what the bible actually says.

Lam 3: 38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?

1 Sam 16: 23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

1 Sam 19: 9 And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand

Jer 36:3 It may be that the house of Judah will hear all the evil which I purpose to do unto them; that they may return every man from his evil way; that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin.

You are still proving my point Ed.

You are doing exactly what I said you would do.

Thank you.

And you are doing exactly what you have always done in the other threads, lie and then declare victory.

 

[edthecynic]

Nope, your impotent God can't change the past, the same Super God who made him torture and murder his only begotten son won't let him change the past.

That sounds exactly like you describing your beliefs to me. Beliefs which sound exactly like the OP describes. This is you validating your beliefs by attacking the beliefs of others.

Thanks for proving my point.

I am simply presenting an alternate pontification to your fellow pontificator. You have already established pontification as "a positive argument" and not "Critical Theory," so you are reaping what you have sown.

I can make a positive argument for my beliefs.

No you can't! You can only pontificate what you claim to believe, that you pretend to back up by deliberately misrepresenting anything you cite as support.

You are simply attacking the beliefs of others to validate your beliefs because you cannot make a positive case for your beliefs because none exists.

From my experience with you on other threads, I will never expect you to admit the truth.

So when I say that you can't prove a negative, I am lying?

You always lie!

 

[Karl Rand]

You just did in post #180.

you really need to learn the English language!

Evil, Created In The Image Of God.

Lying suits you. Praise God!

So you are saying Adolph Hitler was made in the image of God, and not God in the image of Hitler.
Thank you.

That's right, all evil is an image of God.

Keep on lying, you are making your god very proud!

You God of lies must be very proud of you.

God and Satan are one and the same

your impotent God can't change the past, the same Super God who made him torture and murder his only begotten son

All of that comes straight from the bible, so it is the bible attacking religion, not me for actually knowing what the bible actually says.

Lam 3: 38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?

1 Sam 16: 23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

1 Sam 19: 9 And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand

Jer 36:3 It may be that the house of Judah will hear all the evil which I purpose to do unto them; that they may return every man from his evil way; that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin.

You are still proving my point Ed.

You are doing exactly what I said you would do.

Thank you.

And you are doing exactly what you have always done in the other threads, lie and then declare victory.

Admittedly there are problems quoting chapter and verse out of context but I simply must add 2nd Thessalonians Ch 2.V.11.

 

[edthecynic]

Or God and Satan are one and the same, two sides of the same coin making Atheism the ONLY alternative to Satan.

1 Ch 21: 1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

2 Sam 24: 1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

In this case, atheism can't exist, because omnipotence would not give it room. God did create Satan, and as everything that He created, Satan too may be theorized as part of God. However there are different relationships between God and god's parts.

The two verses clearly label Satan as God, not created by God as you falsely claim.

And as far as omnipotence goes, Agathon said it best:
Even God cannot change the past.
- Agathon

The problem is that these are all false statements. And agathon is not God, he can be wrong. Of course God can change the past, mathematically from the infinity start point this is easily possible at least.

Nope, your impotent God can't change the past, the same Super God who made him torture and murder his only begotten son won't let him change the past.

Your statement here is a religious statement. Only that it's God is that there is no God.

And by the way the past changes continuously too, not only the statistical mismatch between people's memories with events is a proof of that but also the physical fact, that natures laws appear to be constant, proving that they change synchronously with time itself.

Pure doublespeak!

 

[edthecynic]

Throughout our nation's history, churches have done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government. This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people's allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before putting their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation's Christian heritage. Dr. Ron Paul

The people who actually are doing the chipping are the evangelicals and politicians like Tramp and Paul who pretend to be religious for political purposes only.

 

[Karl Rand]

In this case, atheism can't exist, because omnipotence would not give it room. God did create Satan, and as everything that He created, Satan too may be theorized as part of God. However there are different relationships between God and god's parts.

The two verses clearly label Satan as God, not created by God as you falsely claim.

And as far as omnipotence goes, Agathon said it best:
Even God cannot change the past.
- Agathon

The problem is that these are all false statements. And agathon is not God, he can be wrong. Of course God can change the past, mathematically from the infinity start point this is easily possible at least.

Nope, your impotent God can't change the past, the same Super God who made him torture and murder his only begotten son won't let him change the past.

Your statement here is a religious statement. Only that it's God is that there is no God.

And by the way the past changes continuously too, not only the statistical mismatch between people's memories with events is a proof of that but also the physical fact, that natures laws appear to be constant, proving that they change synchronously with time itself.

Pure doublespeak!

Does anyone here really know what they’re talking about other than talking about what others are talking about? And please don’t come at me with Psalm 107.V 43.

 

[Karl Rand]

In this case, atheism can't exist, because omnipotence would not give it room. God did create Satan, and as everything that He created, Satan too may be theorized as part of God. However there are different relationships between God and god's parts.

The two verses clearly label Satan as God, not created by God as you falsely claim.

And as far as omnipotence goes, Agathon said it best:
Even God cannot change the past.
- Agathon

The problem is that these are all false statements. And agathon is not God, he can be wrong. Of course God can change the past, mathematically from the infinity start point this is easily possible at least.

Nope, your impotent God can't change the past, the same Super God who made him torture and murder his only begotten son won't let him change the past.

Your statement here is a religious statement. Only that it's God is that there is no God.

And by the way the past changes continuously too, not only the statistical mismatch between people's memories with events is a proof of that but also the physical fact, that natures laws appear to be constant, proving that they change synchronously with time itself.

Pure doublespeak!

On the other hand if we accept this theory there can be absolutely now way of proving it.
Einstien is hard enough to get one’s head around let alone a claim nothing ever was what it appeard to be. We can even use the theory itself as the foundation for a claim it didn’t say what it claimed to say. Pure nonsense that would make even Bishop Berkely proud.

 

[Karl Rand]

Throughout our nation's history, churches have done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government. This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people's allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before putting their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation's Christian heritage. Dr. Ron Paul

The people who actually are doing the chipping are the evangelicals and politicians like Tramp and Paul who pretend to be religious for political purposes only.

True but I suspect Trump isn’t so stupid he doesn’t know the precarious position he’s put himself in and is now down on his knees for the first time.

 

[anotherlife]

Plus the other problem with atheism is that it is a purely political stunt. Mostly used by Marxist political strategists. In contrast, religions offer personal enrichment.

Huh... I never got the memo on the Marxist thing.

This was the foundation of Soviet society. Still practiced in Cuba.