Is religion really so bad?

[gallantwarrior]

Church membership in America is falling. I think that this started along with television, and televangelism, which I think that all thinking people recognize as nothing but a Sunday substitute for World Wide Wrestling that is broadcast on Saturdays. In the meantime, the Catholic Church has become so out of date, and out of touch with all but the superstitious and tradition steeped individuals. The less I say about the LDS and weird splitter sects, the better. Mainstream protestant churches can't seem to figure out how to get converts, unless they resort to rassal dassel.

I suspect that religion in America is dying. I say that without any moral judgment on the matter.

That might have some relationship with the way the communist-inclined, socialist leftists/"progressives" in this country have crafted their narrative that demonizes christianity.

I am not sure that I understand your point, but I do believe that the the humanistic population tend to think of religion as one giant dog and pony show, without seeing the deeper personal relationship with god, that is the true core of Christianity.

I am proud of myself. I, too, am a humanist atheist, Yet, I understand the difference between a personal commitment to god, and the the Christian Right. But, I admit that I can not reconcile how anyone can be both a true committed Christian, and a RW activist christian at the same time..

My point is, some of the "humanists" do, in fact worship a "higher power". While some christians celebrate a committed relationship to their god, and others claiming the same moniker rather "worship" their leaders who interpret "god". Many humanists, atheists, and others who eschew the existence of an omnipotent, omnipresent, controlling power do, in fact, worship their own guiding principles as others worship their god.
For the record, I am agnostic. If labelled, I would probably be considered a nature worshiper. I follow the turning of the seasons and enjoy a deep "relationship" with the natural world I live in.

 

[task0778]

I see many posters on this board with a strong dislike for religion, based mostly on how they feel about Christianity. Which is a little hard to understand, since the basis on that religion is love and caring for your fellow man. Are there that many people out there knocking on doors trying to convert you? What difference does it make to you if the stories in the bible fly in the face of reality? Is it the fault of the religion itself if many people have committed atrocities in the name of God for their own purposes, or maybe due to a misguided view of what is righteous? And BTW, although Christianity may be among the largest religions in terms of numbers, it isn't the only one out there. Not sure how wise it is to discard all forms of religion or spirituality based on your feelings about one.

Here's the thing: does it give people hope? Does it offer solace in the face of hardship or suffering? Does it bring people together or divide them? Does it support the concepts of service above self? Does it preach peace and equality? I think most do, and for these reasons religion is a good thing rather than a bad thing.

 

[Divine Wind]

All the positive aspects and attributes ushered forth through ones religious faith can likewise be done without believing in lies and falsehoods. Though to do so, without belief of an eternal reward requires more courage, and conviction...

Yes...I think I agree. One doesn't have to be religious to be good.

But there is something about religion, the mysticism, the search for god and meaning that is important.

Agreed. Atheist philosophy aside, there is more to religion and spiritual growth than fear of God or the "belief of an eternal reward". The vast majority of people, from past to present, have a spiritual side in addition to their mental and physical sides. Atheists are "color-blind" to this spiritual side and, therefore, lack spiritual growth. It's this growth that is important, not any intangible or imaginary rewards. Growth for it's own sake.

 

[Divine Wind]

Opiate of the masses.

Marx was my hero.

Marx was an atheist, and they usually hate anyone who is religious or spiritual. He was consumed by materialism, the antithesis of spirituality.

I used to be an atheist. Mainly because, if taken literally, the Bible didn't make sense. Then I had a NDE. No, I didn't see Jesus or even God, but it awoke in me the knowledge that there is more to existence than what we can only see in front of our faces.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Opiate of the masses.

Marx was my hero.

Marx was an atheist, and they usually hate anyone who is religious or spiritual. He was consumed by materialism, the antithesis of spirituality.

I used to be an atheist. Mainly because, if taken literally, the Bible didn't make sense. Then I had a NDE. No, I didn't see Jesus or even God, but it awoke in me the knowledge that there is more to existence than what we can only see in front of our faces.

You need to examine your first sentence and see whether or not you are contributing to, what you see as atheist prejudice against religion.

 

[Vandalshandle]

 

[frigidweirdo]

To hear some people you'd think so...or you'd think SOME is...but that would be looking at it only one part of it.

I do think religion helps us to think of a higher purpose, to think outside of ourselves and our immediate needs, to think of others. And that is a good thing. I'm not big into "salvation" as a formal concept...and I am firm believer that we create our own heaven and hell through our actions on earth.

I'm listening to music, the true voice of the sacred. Cat Stevens...Yusuf Islam is one. What he says makes sense and echos all the world's great faiths:

Ten Promises To Peace

Ten Promises To Peace


What has happened to the Muslim Community since the Prophet Muhammad’s passing (peace be upon him) is anything but the message of unity, love and peace he delivered. Not entirely their fault because those who prosper by dividing mankind into collective groups, those who draw lines between people and families and then make deals with violent would-be-lords, presidents and dictators, must shoulder much of the blame also.


After entering Islam through the study of the Qur’an, what shocked me was how little people knew or wanted to know about the commonalities shared between Islam and other Faiths. The partial reason for this is the ‘Blame Game’; everybody accusing the ‘others’ for the terrible condition of the world: Afghanistan, Palestine, Bosnia, Iraq, all burning flames of hatred. Whereas the fundamental message of the Prophet, calling for understanding, prayer and charity under God, is totally lost in the gun smoke and fury of the explosive wars that continue to fog many people’s understanding of Islam. Following my conversion, I realised the real battle front was ignorance and mutual antagonism, was left unattended.


After many years, and millions of fatalities the world is still a very dangerous place, and continuously in conflict. So what can we do? Well, I think we can all promise to try and make it better by following the things we all say believe in.


Lessons from the Ten Commandments


Some people perceive believers in a Divine Code of life as unfashionable and unrealistic. But these people have left the safety of God’s palace of peace, and chosen to pitch their tents outside. That’s their choice, and choice is part of the license God has given every human being. However, when laws are broken and if people commit crimes and cross the lines, you can’t blame God for what happens next. Law and Order are primary requisites that God has provided humanity to maintain peace within the palace.


One of the most important objectives of all religion is teaching people how to live together. The lessons I learnt as a school child, the Ten Commandments, are not even referred to or looked at anymore. Yet these were the rules laid down by our Creator, for the benefit and betterment of all mankind. Why are they so easily overlooked?


When we hear that over four fifths of the world’s population believe or have a faith, why are we not profiting from things we already hold as valuable and right. In Islam, the ‘Ten’ are repeated in the Qur’an and other sacred Books in so many verses and chapters. This is a plus! What is missing is commitment.


People have put their nationality and customs above the commitment to abide by a Divine template of universal rights and responsibilities.


Even the Universal Declaration of Human Rights says: All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood. It goes on to describe in detail what those rights are.


So what happens? Why do some of us look down at others, and consider their lives less than equal with our own? When a person kills another from the same race and society, it’s called murder. When someone kills someone from another country it’s war. It’s a complicated subject and cannot be dealt with in this short talk, but we can realize the basis of the problem if we revisit God’s commands.​

Rest of the article at link.

And..for Christianity? What could be better expressed then in Connie Dover's Ubi Caritas.....my heart and soul



WHERE charity and love are, God is there.
Christ's love has gathered us into one.
Let us rejoice and be pleased in Him.
Let us fear, and let us love the living God.
And may we love each other with a sincere heart.

WHERE charity and love are, God is there.
As we are gathered into one body,
Beware, lest we be divided in mind.
Let evil impulses stop, let controversy cease,
And may Christ our God be in our midst.

WHERE charity and love are, God is there.
And may we with the saints also,
See Thy face in glory, O Christ our God:
The joy that is immense and good,
Unto the ages through infinite ages. Amen.

The problem with religion is that people end up following like sheep, and then those with the power, abuse that power.

 

[Meriweather]

The problem with religion is that people end up following like sheep, and then those with the power, abuse that power.

"The problem with ____________ is that people end up following like sheep, and then those with the power, abuse that power." This blank can be completed in a variety of ways. The problem with:

sports
colleges
corporate employers
the law
television commercials (particularly drug companies)
political parties
clubs
housing authorities
Congress

One of the strengths of religion is that it stops people from following like sheep and inspires them to break away from things that enslave and live a more fulfilling life. People who follow a religion may also have greater discipline, which helps attain greater success in other of life's pursuits.

 

[there4eyeM]

Religions have worked as an effective control on certain aspects of the human psyche. They limit 'God' and human potential in doing so. Ultimately, we are poorly served by them.

 

[Gracie]

This pretty much says it all.

 

[Divine Wind]

Opiate of the masses.

Marx was my hero.

Marx was an atheist, and they usually hate anyone who is religious or spiritual. He was consumed by materialism, the antithesis of spirituality.

I used to be an atheist. Mainly because, if taken literally, the Bible didn't make sense. Then I had a NDE. No, I didn't see Jesus or even God, but it awoke in me the knowledge that there is more to existence than what we can only see in front of our faces.

You need to examine your first sentence and see whether or not you are contributing to, what you see as atheist prejudice against religion.

Ahhh, thanks. Let me rephrase "......and the vocal ones usually hate anyone who is religious or spiritual. "

Better?

 

[Divine Wind]

Religions have worked as an effective control on certain aspects of the human psyche. They limit 'God' and human potential in doing so. Ultimately, we are poorly served by them.

Religion, like martial arts, is a tool towards a goal. In this case spiritual enlightenment, in the case of martial arts, self-discipline and self-defense. While some leaders have abused that tool, many have gained from it.

Stalin and Mao attempted to stomp out religion, but failed. Why?

 

[Vastator]

Religions have worked as an effective control on certain aspects of the human psyche. They limit 'God' and human potential in doing so. Ultimately, we are poorly served by them.

Religion, like martial arts, is a tool towards a goal. In this case spiritual enlightenment, in the case of martial arts, self-discipline and self-defense. While some leaders have abused that tool, many have gained from it.

Stalin and Mao attempted to stomp out religion, but failed. Why?

Failed? How so? They suppressed it, and snuffed it out fully enough to keep it from supplanting their own ambition. Sounds like a success to me. If your asking why it wasn't forever eradicated... The answer is simple. They didn't kill every last adherent. But then... That wouldn't be practical.

 

[Mudda]

Religions are a means to kill and enslave. Works pretty well.

 

[Mudda]

Religions have worked as an effective control on certain aspects of the human psyche. They limit 'God' and human potential in doing so. Ultimately, we are poorly served by them.

Religion, like martial arts, is a tool towards a goal. In this case spiritual enlightenment, in the case of martial arts, self-discipline and self-defense. While some leaders have abused that tool, many have gained from it.

Stalin and Mao attempted to stomp out religion, but failed. Why?

Because religious zombies are hard to kill?

 

[task0778]

Religions have worked as an effective control on certain aspects of the human psyche. They limit 'God' and human potential in doing so. Ultimately, we are poorly served by them.

So the problem with religion is that it can be misused by some and so mankind is poorly served by religion? The same might be said of any other human institution, from gov't of any kind, to an economic model of any kind, to anything else. Mankind has also been well served by many other religious persons to our great benefit, let's not ignore that.

 

[there4eyeM]

No, the problem with religion is that it is blasphemy against any 'God' that could truly be 'God', while also demeaning human spirit, sensibilities and growth.

 

[Divine Wind]

Religions have worked as an effective control on certain aspects of the human psyche. They limit 'God' and human potential in doing so. Ultimately, we are poorly served by them.

Religion, like martial arts, is a tool towards a goal. In this case spiritual enlightenment, in the case of martial arts, self-discipline and self-defense. While some leaders have abused that tool, many have gained from it.

Stalin and Mao attempted to stomp out religion, but failed. Why?

Failed? How so? They suppressed it, and snuffed it out fully enough to keep it from supplanting their own ambition. Sounds like a success to me. If your asking why it wasn't forever eradicated... The answer is simple. They didn't kill every last adherent. But then... That wouldn't be practical.

Your glee at that "success", while understandable coming from an atheist, is erroneous. All they did was drive it underground. About as effective as the US "war on drugs".

 

[task0778]

Religions are a means to kill and enslave. Works pretty well.

Religions are also a means to help and support others. Works pretty well, a helluva lot better than gov't does. Those who would kill and enslave will use whatever means necessary to achieve their ends, religion is only one of those means.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The problem with religion is that people end up following like sheep, and then those with the power, abuse that power.

"The problem with ____________ is that people end up following like sheep, and then those with the power, abuse that power." This blank can be completed in a variety of ways. The problem with:

sports
colleges
corporate employers
the law
television commercials (particularly drug companies)
political parties
clubs
housing authorities
Congress

One of the strengths of religion is that it stops people from following like sheep and inspires them to break away from things that enslave and live a more fulfilling life. People who follow a religion may also have greater discipline, which helps attain greater success in other of life's pursuits.

Yes, from an individual point of view, religion can be a good thing. This is why I, as a non-religious person, actually stand up for people's rights to religion and to believe whatever they want.

However from a larger scale perspective we see the problems that people trying to separate themselves into groups and the leaders of those groups start hating on other groups just because they can gain some political advantage.

Take gay marriage. It doesn't hurt these religious people, but they'll be opposed because some knob end religious person has decided they don't like it, and go around saying that in order to be a good [insert religious adjective] you need to hate on people.