Zone1 is the church built upon Peter? HELL NO

[ninja007]

The Bible says Mary should be honored. Purgatory is mentioned in the Bible. Protestants changed the basic teachings of the church quite often to suit their personal desires.

purgatory no where.

 

[Meriweather]

"Honored" does not mean prayed to, it does not mean revered, it means respected and honored.

Mary asks us to pray with her. We ask Mary to pray with us. You seem to be saying Mary should be excluded from the Body of Christ, from worship, when the Church gathers to pray. She should be shunned, not allowed to join in community prayers. I expect you feel the same about Catholics, at the beginning of Mass ask angels and saints to join in prayer as well?

Shunning is some show of respect and honor. Who else do you recommend the community of believers leave out when gathering to pray to the Lord? Or, do you believe prayer should always be a solitary practice where it is one person and no one else?

Purgatory is not mentioned in the Bible, what is mentioned is a place where the dead waited until Christ came to preach to them.

Are you aware that Jews in Jesus day, in Biblical times prayed for the dead, that Jesus celebrated Hanukah as written about in the Book of Maccabees which addresses purification following death.

We don't go there now because He's opened the door directly to God.

Then why did the Apostles continue the practice instead of speaking out about this?

Instead Jews and the Church continue practicing prayers for the purification of the dead until Martin Luther, decided this wasn't needed. Jews, Catholics, and Orthodox continue the practice. Jesus did make reference to this, in speaking about purification and restitution. The door to God is opened. There is a big difference in belief that this door opens upon death and belief it opens upon final purification.

 

[hadit]

Mary asks us to pray with her. We ask Mary to pray with us. You seem to be saying Mary should be excluded from the Body of Christ, from worship, when the Church gathers to pray. She should be shunned, not allowed to join in community prayers. I expect you feel the same about Catholics, at the beginning of Mass ask angels and saints to join in prayer as well?

1. Mary asking you to pray with her is church tradition with no Scriptural backing.
2. Even IF she is listening for you to ask her to pray with you, from where do you get the idea that she's equipped to hear millions of people simultaneously asking her to pray for things, AND, you might not agree, but there are a lot of people who ask her for things, not just to pray with them.

Shunning is some show of respect and honor. Who else do you recommend the community of believers leave out when gathering to pray to the Lord? Or, do you believe prayer should always be a solitary practice where it is one person and no one else?

That's a thinly veiled insult and not worthy of a response beyond this.

Are you aware that Jews in Jesus day, in Biblical times prayed for the dead, that Jesus celebrated Hanukah as written about in the Book of Maccabees which addresses purification following death.

Those again are traditions. Jews have traditions, Catholics have traditions. Where they are not addressed in Scripture is where they can be questioned.

Then why did the Apostles continue the practice instead of speaking out about this?

The Apostles were not all on the same page about some very critical things. Can you at least show me in Scripture where the Apostles said we were commanded to pray for the dead?

Instead Jews and the Church continue practicing prayers for the purification of the dead until Martin Luther, decided this wasn't needed. Jews, Catholics, and Orthodox continue the practice. Jesus did make reference to this, in speaking about purification and restitution. The door to God is opened. There is a big difference in belief that this door opens upon death and belief it opens upon final purification.

Luther "decided" it wasn't needed because he went back into the Scriptures, studying them intently, and couldn't find where it was commanded. He was being led by God to question all the "traditions" and suffocating corruption that was strangling the Church. Once again, when it comes to a conflict between tradition and Scripture, tradition loses. My own denomination that I grew up in, the Conservative Mennonite Conference, had traditions that were once valuable but were no longer pertinent to the modern world and not Scripturally sound, so they had to be modified or rejected outright. Every generation should examine everything it believes and practices to be sure they are Scripturally sound. Traditions can be jettisoned if they no longer serve their purpose.

 

[Meriweather]

1. Mary asking you to pray with her is church tradition with no Scriptural backing.
2. Even IF she is listening for you to ask her to pray with you, from where do you get the idea that she's equipped to hear millions of people simultaneously asking her to pray for things, AND, you might not agree, but there are a lot of people who ask her for things, not just to pray with them.

1. It is more than Church tradition. It has continued down through the centuries.

2. When you worship and pray in church, can you identify and distinguish individual voices? Or, do you hear all merging into one voice? Does anyone in your church ever address the congregation, saying, "Let us pray."? And if that happens does the congregation fall over in shock thinking, S/he is asking us to pray to him/her!

If not, then why that desperate need to accuse Catholics of praying to Mary instead of the truth that all are joining in prayer to God? I don't get it. Why the slander? Why the need to make mud and throw it?

 

[Meriweather]

That's a thinly veiled insult and not worthy of a response beyond this.

No, it is not an insult. Nor is it thinly veiled. It is the truth and that truth (and rightly so) stings. Doesn't it? As well it should.

 

[Meriweather]

Those again are traditions. Jews have traditions, Catholics have traditions. Where they are not addressed in Scripture is where they can be questioned.

Seriously? Reference and mention to these "traditions" have been presented--backed by scripture--as well. But closed hearts have ways of throwing out Biblical books, and being blind to all mention of purification in the afterlife. Luther started a new tradition, whose practice began in the sixteenth century. That tradition: No need to be bothered with the pesky business of praying for those who have passed on.

 

[Meriweather]

The Apostles were not all on the same page about some very critical things. Can you at least show me in Scripture where the Apostles said we were commanded to pray for the dead?

I was asking you for the scripture where all the Apostles who were raised in the practice of praying for the dead, and the Maccabees story being celebrated each year, telling early Christians: "No longer any need to pray for the dead." Paul said no such thing. It was Martin Luther, sixteen centuries later, who said to stop doing it.

Show me that scripture where the Apostles said not to pray for those who had passed on. It was important enough for the change in dietary practice be mentioned, but not important to also write about how unnecessary it was to pray for those who passed?

Jews pray for the dead. Muslims pray for the dead. Catholics/Orthodox pray for the dead. Protestants departed from the practice.

 

[Meriweather]

Luther "decided" it wasn't needed because he went back into the Scriptures, studying them intently, and couldn't find where it was commanded. He was being led by God to question all the "traditions" and suffocating corruption that was strangling the Church. Once again, when it comes to a conflict between tradition and Scripture, tradition loses. My own denomination that I grew up in, the Conservative Mennonite Conference, had traditions that were once valuable but were no longer pertinent to the modern world and not Scripturally sound, so they had to be modified or rejected outright. Every generation should examine everything it believes and practices to be sure they are Scripturally sound. Traditions can be jettisoned if they no longer serve their purpose.

I believe Luther missed a lot. Again, most likely due to language change. Do you believe all Luther said/wrote about Jews? Probably not. Yet you believe him when he said prayers for those who have passed on are not needed.

 

[hadit]

1. It is more than Church tradition. It has continued down through the centuries.

It's not Scriptural though.

2. When you worship and pray in church, can you identify and distinguish individual voices? Or, do you hear all merging into one voice? Does anyone in your church ever address the congregation, saying, "Let us pray."? And if that happens does the congregation fall over in shock thinking, S/he is asking us to pray to him/her!

If not, then why that desperate need to accuse Catholics of praying to Mary instead of the truth that all are joining in prayer to God? I don't get it. Why the slander? Why the need to make mud and throw it?

Because when a leader says, "Let us pray", he is the one praying and the congregation prays silently along with him. If everyone just prays whatever they wish, the result is chaos (I have been in prayer services like that) and God is not a God of chaos. The bottom line remains, however, that untold millions of Catholics are all beseeching Mary to pray for and with (and to help) them all at the same time all around the world. That means that there are literally millions of prayers that she would have to hear and handle. Do you deny that? And this is not throwing mud, it's simply noting that nowhere in Scripture does it indicate that she has the special ability to hear millions of prayers simultaneously and do something with them.

 

[hadit]

I was asking you for the scripture where all the Apostles who were raised in the practice of praying for the dead, and the Maccabees story being celebrated each year, telling early Christians: "No longer any need to pray for the dead." Paul said no such thing. It was Martin Luther, sixteen centuries later, who said to stop doing it.

Show me that scripture where the Apostles said not to pray for those who had passed on. It was important enough for the change in dietary practice be mentioned, but not important to also write about how unnecessary it was to pray for those who passed?

Jews pray for the dead. Muslims pray for the dead. Catholics/Orthodox pray for the dead. Protestants departed from the practice.

Where in the Jewish Scripture (the one that the early Church used) does it say to pray for the dead? If it's just a tradition and not from Scripture, it can be questioned.

 

[hadit]

I believe Luther missed a lot. Again, most likely due to language change. Do you believe all Luther said/wrote about Jews? Probably not. Yet you believe him when he said prayers for those who have passed on are not needed.

I just want to know where in Scripture it says it IS needed. If it's not there, it's valid to be questioned.

 

[hadit]

No, it is not an insult. Nor is it thinly veiled. It is the truth and that truth (and rightly so) stings. Doesn't it? As well it should.

It's a dumb question, because nowhere have I indicated that prayer is solely a lone practice. I simply do not believe that dead ancestors are listening to and can handle millions of prayers on a daily basis.

 

[Meriweather]

Because when a leader says, "Let us pray", he is the one praying and the congregation prays silently along with him. If everyone just prays whatever they wish, the result is chaos (I have been in prayer services like that) and God is not a God of chaos. The bottom line remains, however, that untold millions of Catholics are all beseeching Mary to pray for and with (and to help) them all at the same time all around the world. That means that there are literally millions of prayers that she would have to hear and handle. Do you deny that? And this is not throwing mud, it's simply noting that nowhere in Scripture does it indicate that she has the special ability to hear millions of prayers simultaneously and do something with them.

You keep missing the point. For example, your church community never prays the Lord's prayer together? One person prays it aloud while everyone else remains silent?

All pray the Lord's prayer aloud during Mass in the Catholic Church, all speaking in one voice and it is not chaos at all. You do not pray together in your church?

We do not doubt the Holy Spirit's ability to handle all prayers. You are aware that all prayers are in Jesus' name, correct? You are just having trouble with the thought of Mary joining in with the prayers of so many? Prayer doesn't uplift in your church, they drag one down? I don't understand.

 

[Meriweather]

Where in the Jewish Scripture (the one that the early Church used) does it say to pray for the dead? If it's just a tradition and not from Scripture, it can be questioned.

Asked and answered.

 

[Meriweather]

I just want to know where in Scripture it says it IS needed. If it's not there, it's valid to be questioned.

Not when it is known that prayers for the dead were the norm in Jesus' and still are apart from Protestants. The first we hear that they aren't needed is from Martin Luther, sixteen centuries later.

All the same, if you don't want to pray for those who have passed on, then don't. I doubt unwilling prayers are of much, if any, value. I know for a fact prayers for the dead are valued. But as that is personal experience, not scripture, that can be readily dismissed by those who do not care to pray for those who have passed on.

 

[Meriweather]

It's a dumb question, because nowhere have I indicated that prayer is solely a lone practice. I simply do not believe that dead ancestors are listening to and can handle millions of prayers on a daily basis.

Again, why the belief that prayer is burdensome not uplifting?

 

[zaangalewa]

Is Peter the first Pope? ...

Yes. Peter was the first "papa" of the church. (Papa = Old English for "Father"). I love such easy answerable questions.

 

[zaangalewa]

Peter and Paul between them moulded a Cult Religion which was picked up by Deep State as a Control asset but is now in the midst of dumping it .
You no longer need old fashioned Cult Conditioning techniques at the dawn of AI.
AI rang the death knell for Cult Christianity . As it will do for Judaism and Islam , though the latter might need more time to vanquish

Oh by the way, Putinist: Did you tell Putin to leave the Ukraine with all of "his" soldiers?

 

[zaangalewa]

Purgatory is just one excellent Deep State control mechanism that worked spendidly against a certain type for a long time .
Still does, but, with the predictable decline of Cult Christianity, it is now better seen as an absurd construct which uncluttered minds soon work out .

And? Did you speak now with your fake-god Putin and his personal anti-Christian slave patriarch Kirill to leave the Ukraine?

 

[zaangalewa]

I’m just following the Bible.

The bible is a book - and not a god. But it's absolutelly not wrong to ask what's really written there and how to understand this today - but also in the century when it had been written the first time and was read the first time. But it's perhaps not a good idea to ask organisations like '"Jehova's" witnesses' for example - because the word "Jehova" is on its own a misinterpretation.

... To sum this all up Joseph Smith said an incredible statement: the book of Revelation was the plainest book God caused to be written.

No one understands this book. As far as I know it is in the bible because it is said the author had been boiled in oil from the Romans but he had survived without to deny god. We respect such people - independent from their exceptional mental situation.