Is the death penalty wrong?

[5stringJeff]

What did the baby do? Are we making a victim of the most innocent person involved in such a horrific crime?

Your question about what they can or can't do with their body doesn't cover the fact that they are taking away the choice of the baby to live.

Yes, it is a horrible act and then to be reminded by conceiving at the same time is also terrible, but to compound the act by killing the most innocent is not a way to make what happened right.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[manu1959]

What did the baby do? Are we making a victim of the most innocent person involved in such a horrific crime?

Your question about what they can or can't do with their body doesn't cover the fact that they are taking away the choice of the baby to live.

Yes, it is a horrible act and then to be reminded by conceiving at the same time is also terrible, but to compound the act by killing the most innocent is not a way to make what happened right.

who's life is more important and who should get to decide?

 

[no1tovote4]

who's life is more important and who should get to decide?

The woman was not in danger of dying at this point, therefore it is only a question of whether a life should end for the sins of the father.

Is your convenience more important than anybody's life?

 

[manu1959]

The woman was not in danger of dying at this point, therefore it is only a question of whether a life should end for the sins of the father.

Is your convenience more important than anybody's life?

first off it is not my convenience we are talking about...

what i was asking was, why do you get to determine the fate of another person?

so your 16 year olde daughter gets pregnant ... she gets to have the baby?

so your wife has an affair and gets pregnant ... you get to raise the child?

 

[no1tovote4]

first off it is not my convenience we are talking about...

what i was asking was, why do you get to determine the fate of another person?

so your 16 year olde daughter gets pregnant ... she gets to have the baby?

so your wife has an affair and gets pregnant ... you get to raise the child?

If my wife has an affair, she gets a divorce and gets to raise the child. If my daughter was raped and got pregnant I would strongly advise towards adoption.

As I said before, you are taking away a right to life and punishing the most innocent. Why do you get to make a decision of what will happen to another's body, so much so that you get to decide whether their life is worthy?

This particular thing really hits home with me. I have a Nephew that is the product of rape. I love the kid, and he is turning into a truly good man (he is 16 now.) There is no way I would think that he deserved to die because his father raped my sister.

I advised my sister at the time to adopt the child out, but when he was born my sister couldn't do it. She fell in love.

 

[manu1959]

If my wife has an affair, she gets a divorce and gets to raise the child. If my daughter was raped and got pregnant I would strongly advise towards adoption.

As I said before, you are taking away a right to life and punishing the most innocent. Why do you get to make a decision of what will happen to another's body, so much so that you get to decide whether their life is worthy?

This particular thing really hits home with me. I have a Nephew that is the product of rape. I love the kid, and he is turning into a truly good man (he is 16 now.) There is no way I would think that he deserved to die because his father raped my sister.

I advised my sister at the time to adopt the child out, but when he was born my sister couldn't do it. She fell in love.

i will keep it simple...why do you get to make decisions for others and decide what they can or can not do?

 

[no1tovote4]

i will keep it simple...why do you get to make decisions for others and decide what they can or can not do?

I didn't, and never said that I did. But why do you?

 

[Johnney]

What did the baby do? Are we making a victim of the most innocent person involved in such a horrific crime?

Your question about what they can or can't do with their body doesn't cover the fact that they are taking away the choice of the baby to live.

Yes, it is a horrible act and then to be reminded by conceiving at the same time is also terrible, but to compound the act by killing the most innocent is not a way to make what happened right.

it doesnt matter if the baby did anything or not. its the mothers body and it should be an option for her.
on the other hand, if a chick is out there throwing pussy at anyone with a dick and gets pregnant, tough shit. that is something that has a price attached to it. getting raped is not. females should have to carry through a pregnacy (in a rape case) that was not made with their consent. not only is it a reminder of what happened, but it also lays ties with the "father". and if hes sick enough and doesnt get caught for some reason, whats to stop him from coming back and wanting to be part of his life?

 

[no1tovote4]

i will keep it simple...why do you get to make decisions for others and decide what they can or can not do?

I will make this as clear as possible. As a society we make decisions daily on what you can and cannot do to another. In this case it would be deciding that killing children is not permissable no matter what the age.

Now personally I would not make abortion illegal, I said advise and other words such as that. But I can understand why others would make it illegal as they see the life as that of a child, and to kill a child because of a crime committed by the father is not an act of justice but a terrible crime in and of itself.

 

[manu1959]

I didn't, and never said that I did. But why do you?

i don't ... i am defending the right of someone to do with their body as they see fit .... the counter to that is .... who is defending the rights of the unborn .... currently our legal system places the rights of the woman before that of the unborn for a few months and then the rights of the unborn before that of the women after that .... this has always seemed odd to me ... futher, i do not know any people that oppose abortion for any reason no matter what .... ie: all conceptions shall be born ... maybe i have lived in california too long

 

[manu1959]

I will make this as clear as possible. As a society we make decisions daily on what you can and cannot do to another. In this case it would be deciding that killing children is not permissable no matter what the age.

Now personally I would not make abortion illegal, I said advise and other words such as that. But I can understand why others would make it illegal as they see the life as that of a child, and to kill a child because of a crime committed by the father is not an act of justice but a terrible crime in and of itself.

dude i agree with you ... abortion may well be a "crime" and a sin ... and one the woman will have to answer for and live with

 

[no1tovote4]

dude i agree with you ... abortion may well be a "crime" and a sin ... and one the woman will have to answer for and live with

Cool.

 

[manu1959]

Cool.

:cof: next topic?

 

[no1tovote4]

it doesnt matter if the baby did anything or not. its the mothers body and it should be an option for her.
on the other hand, if a chick is out there throwing pussy at anyone with a dick and gets pregnant, tough shit. that is something that has a price attached to it. getting raped is not. females should have to carry through a pregnacy (in a rape case) that was not made with their consent. not only is it a reminder of what happened, but it also lays ties with the "father". and if hes sick enough and doesnt get caught for some reason, whats to stop him from coming back and wanting to be part of his life?

It has happened before and is sure to happen again in the future. However human justice is not perfect. I understand your conjecture about they shouldn't have to carry the child, however performing an act such as abortion just makes one more victim to be accounted for. Children should not be killed because of an act their father did no matter how heinous their father is.

All that being said, I would not make abortion illegal. That kind of decision is between you and your God.

 

[Merlin1047]

i will keep it simple...why do you get to make decisions for others and decide what they can or can not do?

Grow up.

Regulating behavior is done in any society, murder is illegal, you cannot challenge someone to a duel, you can't go out and beat the stuffings out of some lib, you get a ticket for doing 80 in a 65 zone.

Your view of abortion is selfish and self-centered. You completely ignore the rights of the unborn infant. It is a legitimate function of government to defend the helpless from abuse. Nothing is more helpless than an unborn infant.

Once an infant is born, if the mother kills the baby, she goes to prison. So why should she be allowed to murder that baby a month prior to delivery?

Your question is inane and belies an ignorance of how society works. I fail to understand why you would champion personal choice at the expense of a human life. That is the ultimate stupidity.

 

[manu1959]

Grow up.

Regulating behavior is done in any society, murder is illegal, you cannot challenge someone to a duel, you can't go out and beat the stuffings out of some lib, you get a ticket for doing 80 in a 65 zone.

Your view of abortion is selfish and self-centered. You completely ignore the rights of the unborn infant. It is a legitimate function of government to defend the helpless from abuse. Nothing is more helpless than an unborn infant.

Once an infant is born, if the mother kills the baby, she goes to prison. So why should she be allowed to murder that baby a month prior to delivery?

Your question is inane and belies an ignorance of how society works. I fail to understand why you would champion personal choice at the expense of a human life. That is the ultimate stupidity.

first...thanks for the personal attck...second you missed the point of no1 and my discussion....third, what makes you believe that i support or oppose abortion and that i do or do not understand how our system works? fourth, women are not allowed by our legal system to abort a fetus one month prior to delivery without consequence and lastly, are you incapable of arguing the opposite side of one of your beliefs in order to more fully understand you own posistion and solidify your convictions?

 

[Johnney]

Grow up.

Regulating behavior is done in any society, murder is illegal, you cannot challenge someone to a duel

this is a shame. some people are only alive because muder is illegal

you get a ticket for doing 80 in a 65 zone.

very true, i jsut paid mine

Your view of abortion is selfish and self-centered. You completely ignore the rights of the unborn infant. It is a legitimate function of government to defend the helpless from abuse. Nothing is more helpless than an unborn infant.

wheres that mothers rights? why does she have to live with, or give birth to, something that was concieved in a violent manner?

Your question is inane and belies an ignorance of how society works. I fail to understand why you would champion personal choice at the expense of a human life. That is the ultimate stupidity.

no it doesnt, it shows he has a different view on abortion than you do. jsut as i have a different one, Jeff has a different one. its the females body, and unless shes hell bent on drinking and drugging through her pregnancy, everyone should butt out.

 

[manu1959]

this is a shame. some people are only alive because muder is illegal very true, i jsut paid mine wheres that mothers rights? why does she have to live with, or give birth to, something that was concieved in a violent manner? no it doesnt, it shows he has a different view on abortion than you do. jsut as i have a different one, Jeff has a different one. its the females body, and unless shes hell bent on drinking and drugging through her pregnancy, everyone should butt out.

johnney,

i have a habit of taking opposing posistion on issues for fun and the sake of discussion and to gain knowledge and solidify my own beliefs...hazzard of what i do for a living .... anyway, for what ever it is worth to you as you chose to deffend my statements and at the risk of being negativly repped again for expresssing an opinion that a modorator does not like ... i belive medically safe abortions should be available to women that so chose and that God will sort them out when the time comes .... but i do not think abortion should be used as a form of birth control .... my guess is no one here has lost a family member to a back room abortion so passing judgment is easy for them

ps...nice guns

 

[freeandfun1]

Its the females body, and unless shes hell bent on drinking and drugging through her pregnancy, everyone should butt out.

huh? Just curious, what is the difference between killing a child through abortion and killing one through drinking and drugging? Even if the child does survive the drinking and drugging, they are almost dead anyway.

Really just wondering how you can reconcile the two statements.

And BTW, I agree with Manu. G-d will sort em out in the end.

 

[Merlin1047]

this is a shame. some people are only alive because muder is illegal

very true, i jsut paid mine



wheres that mothers rights? why does she have to live with, or give birth to, something that was concieved in a violent manner?

no it doesnt, it shows he has a different view on abortion than you do. jsut as i have a different one, Jeff has a different one. its the females body, and unless shes hell bent on drinking and drugging through her pregnancy, everyone should butt out.

This gets sillier by the minute.

Why do you insist on hanging your entire argument in support of abortion on that tiny percentage of infants conceived during a criminal act? Your attempts to extrapolate these extreme circumstances to cover your entire argument will not hold up.

Mother's rights? A woman has a right to avoid pregnancy, she has a right to the use of birth control, she has a right to demand the use of a condom or she has a right to abstain. She has NO right to decide to terminate the life of a viable fetus.

I'm not one who insists that a fertilized egg is a human life and cannot be aborted. But I do believe that abortions after the first trimester should be illegal in all but the most extreme circumstance.

It may be the "female's body" as you point out. But the life which develops in her womb has a body of its own and has a right to be protected from abuse once it reaches viability.

So while you may be entitled to your opinion, society is entitled to enact laws which stipulate acceptable conduct. The self-centered view that each individual is a society unto him/herself simply leads to anarchy and chaos. We do not exist in a vacuum. If you're going to live in this society, you have to accept its dictates or work to change them.