Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

[GreatestIam]

Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?


Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation. God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. This teaching follows the one where we are told that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. This makes the notions of condemnation and the need for salvation obvious lies.


Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell. We think God too good a creator to ever have to condemn anyone. Our God is a winner, not the loser God that Christianity has invented. All the Gods are myths created to help us reach our highest human potential and are only tools to open our inner eye. Our single eye as Jesus calls it.


How we can forgive ourselves is that as Universalists, we have tied righteousness to equality. The logic trail from there says that if God is to punish anyone, he would have to punish everyone as everyone contributes to what we all are.


For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him and God would know what we know today, that spanking creates resentment and a delinquent attitude. That beginning would see Hitler's parents setting his mindset which eventually flowered into his tyrannical nature. So to be just, God would automatically have to punish Hitler's parents. That same logic would apply to everyone who contributed or facilitated Hitler's rise to infamy.


So for you and me to blame just ourselves for what we are would be quite unjust. This is not to say that we hold no responsibility for our actions, just not all of them.


Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?


Regards

DL

 

[ninja007]

Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?


Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation. God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. This teaching follows the one where we are told that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. This makes the notions of condemnation and the need for salvation obvious lies.


Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell. We think God too good a creator to ever have to condemn anyone. Our God is a winner, not the loser God that Christianity has invented. All the Gods are myths created to help us reach our highest human potential and are only tools to open our inner eye. Our single eye as Jesus calls it.


How we can forgive ourselves is that as Universalists, we have tied righteousness to equality. The logic trail from there says that if God is to punish anyone, he would have to punish everyone as everyone contributes to what we all are.


For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him and God would know what we know today, that spanking creates resentment and a delinquent attitude. That beginning would see Hitler's parents setting his mindset which eventually flowered into his tyrannical nature. So to be just, God would automatically have to punish Hitler's parents. That same logic would apply to everyone who contributed or facilitated Hitler's rise to infamy.


So for you and me to blame just ourselves for what we are would be quite unjust. This is not to say that we hold no responsibility for our actions, just not all of them.


Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?


Regards

DL

WRONG. The entire point of Christianity is we CANNOT earn salvation. Try again grasshopper.

 

[OZman]

"He filled a mighty Cup with Mind, and sent it down ... to the hearts of men ' Baptise thyself with this Cup's baptism, . . . thou canst ascend to Him that hath sent down the Cup, thou that dost know for what thou didst come into being.' As many then as understood . . . became partakers in the Gnosis ; and when they had ' received the Mind,' they were made ' perfect men.' " — The Cup or Monad, in the Corpus Hermeticum.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?"

There is no need for ‘salvation,’ of course – given the fact that there is no ‘afterlife.’

The fear of death is ancient and powerful, religions seek to exploit this fear with nonsense such as ‘salvation’; whether it’s ‘evil’ or not depends on how such dogma is used by theists.

 

[hobelim]

Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?


Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation. God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. This teaching follows the one where we are told that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. This makes the notions of condemnation and the need for salvation obvious lies.


Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell. We think God too good a creator to ever have to condemn anyone. Our God is a winner, not the loser God that Christianity has invented. All the Gods are myths created to help us reach our highest human potential and are only tools to open our inner eye. Our single eye as Jesus calls it.


How we can forgive ourselves is that as Universalists, we have tied righteousness to equality. The logic trail from there says that if God is to punish anyone, he would have to punish everyone as everyone contributes to what we all are.


For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him and God would know what we know today, that spanking creates resentment and a delinquent attitude. That beginning would see Hitler's parents setting his mindset which eventually flowered into his tyrannical nature. So to be just, God would automatically have to punish Hitler's parents. That same logic would apply to everyone who contributed or facilitated Hitler's rise to infamy.


So for you and me to blame just ourselves for what we are would be quite unjust. This is not to say that we hold no responsibility for our actions, just not all of them.


Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?


Regards

DL

"Our Saviour. Two thieves. One is supposed to have been saved and the other (he searches for the contrary of saved) damned."

"Saved from what?"

"We are all born mad. Some remain so."

- Samuel Beckett, Waiting for Godot

 

[Skull Pilot]

Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?


Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation. God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. This teaching follows the one where we are told that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. This makes the notions of condemnation and the need for salvation obvious lies.


Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell. We think God too good a creator to ever have to condemn anyone. Our God is a winner, not the loser God that Christianity has invented. All the Gods are myths created to help us reach our highest human potential and are only tools to open our inner eye. Our single eye as Jesus calls it.


How we can forgive ourselves is that as Universalists, we have tied righteousness to equality. The logic trail from there says that if God is to punish anyone, he would have to punish everyone as everyone contributes to what we all are.


For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him and God would know what we know today, that spanking creates resentment and a delinquent attitude. That beginning would see Hitler's parents setting his mindset which eventually flowered into his tyrannical nature. So to be just, God would automatically have to punish Hitler's parents. That same logic would apply to everyone who contributed or facilitated Hitler's rise to infamy.


So for you and me to blame just ourselves for what we are would be quite unjust. This is not to say that we hold no responsibility for our actions, just not all of them.


Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?


Regards

DL

WRONG. The entire point of Christianity is we CANNOT earn salvation. Try again grasshopper.

If you don't have to earn it then why all the prohibitions in the bible?

You have to earn your place in heaven by doing exactly what you are told by the magic sky man

 

[hobelim]

If you don't have to earn it then why all the prohibitions in the bible?

Why does anyone have rules that they teach their children to obey?

If you told someone that if they jumped off a cliff they would be smashed on the rocks and would die would it be because you were being a repressive petty tyrant?

If they disregarded your warning and they jumped off a cliff and died would their death be a cruel punishment from you for their disobedience?

In the same way the laws were given as instruction for those who seek a higher realm of conscious existence above that of people who are not rational.

What is so difficult about following a rule to not be stupid?

for instance Kosher law is not about what is acceptable or not to be served and eaten. It is about what is acceptable or not to teach and learn. a warning to stand guard over the sanctity of your own mind so that it will not be defiled and contaminated by the teachings of people who resemble one lower beast or another as in the command to refrain from the teaching of unclean creatures that do not ruminate.

If you disregard the warning and swallow the teachings of unclean irrational creatures that do not ruminate your mind will become defiled and contaminated and you will degenerate into an unclean irrational creature that cannot ruminate.

The prohibitions in the bible are not about crime and punishment, they are about cause and effect for either good or evil.

Not a reward or a punishment from any God but teaching from a higher sphere of intelligent life about the direct consequences of our own deliberate choices in what we as human beings either do or fail to do...

 

[Skull Pilot]

If you don't have to earn it then why all the prohibitions in the bible?

Why does anyone have rules that they teach their children to obey?

If you told someone that if they jumped off a cliff they would be smashed on the rocks and would die would it be because you were being a repressive petty tyrant?

If they disregarded your warning and they jumped off a cliff and died would their death be a cruel punishment from you for their disobedience?

In the same way the laws were given as instruction for those who seek a higher realm of conscious existence above that of people who are not rational.

What is so difficult about following a rule to not be stupid?

for instance Kosher law is not about what is acceptable or not to be served and eaten. It is about what is acceptable or not to teach and learn. a warning to stand guard over the sanctity of your own mind so that it will not be defiled and contaminated by the teachings of people who resemble one lower beast or another as in the command to refrain from the teaching of unclean creatures that do not ruminate.

If you disregard the warning and swallow the teachings of unclean irrational creatures that do not ruminate your mind will become defiled and contaminated and you will degenerate into an unclean irrational creature that cannot ruminate.

The prohibitions in the bible are not about crime and punishment, they are about cause and effect for either good or evil.

Not a reward or a punishment from any God but teaching from a higher sphere of intelligent life about the direct consequences of our own deliberate choices in what we as human beings either do or fail to do...

So if you broke every commandment and spit in god's eye you would still get your reward in heaven

I don't think so

You have to earn your salvation by obeisance to the sky man

 

[hobelim]

If you don't have to earn it then why all the prohibitions in the bible?

Why does anyone have rules that they teach their children to obey?

If you told someone that if they jumped off a cliff they would be smashed on the rocks and would die would it be because you were being a repressive petty tyrant?

If they disregarded your warning and they jumped off a cliff and died would their death be a cruel punishment from you for their disobedience?

In the same way the laws were given as instruction for those who seek a higher realm of conscious existence above that of people who are not rational.

What is so difficult about following a rule to not be stupid?

for instance Kosher law is not about what is acceptable or not to be served and eaten. It is about what is acceptable or not to teach and learn. a warning to stand guard over the sanctity of your own mind so that it will not be defiled and contaminated by the teachings of people who resemble one lower beast or another as in the command to refrain from the teaching of unclean creatures that do not ruminate.

If you disregard the warning and swallow the teachings of unclean irrational creatures that do not ruminate your mind will become defiled and contaminated and you will degenerate into an unclean irrational creature that cannot ruminate.

The prohibitions in the bible are not about crime and punishment, they are about cause and effect for either good or evil.

Not a reward or a punishment from any God but teaching from a higher sphere of intelligent life about the direct consequences of our own deliberate choices in what we as human beings either do or fail to do...

So if you broke every commandment and spit in god's eye you would still get your reward in heaven

I don't think so

You have to earn your salvation by obeisance to the sky man

If you do not heed the directions given in the law of course you cannot receive the life promised for compliance or enter the realm of intelligences that do.

How could it possibly be any other way?

And its not about earning salvation, its about finding it and holding on to it by heeding the instruction given in the law and standing guard over the purity of your own mind.

Is that something that you don't want to do?

Then don't. Just remember that you won't have any sky man to blame and no God will be punishing you for spitting in his eye when your life turns to shit.

 

[GreatestIam]

Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?


Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation. God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. This teaching follows the one where we are told that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. This makes the notions of condemnation and the need for salvation obvious lies.


Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell. We think God too good a creator to ever have to condemn anyone. Our God is a winner, not the loser God that Christianity has invented. All the Gods are myths created to help us reach our highest human potential and are only tools to open our inner eye. Our single eye as Jesus calls it.


How we can forgive ourselves is that as Universalists, we have tied righteousness to equality. The logic trail from there says that if God is to punish anyone, he would have to punish everyone as everyone contributes to what we all are.


For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him and God would know what we know today, that spanking creates resentment and a delinquent attitude. That beginning would see Hitler's parents setting his mindset which eventually flowered into his tyrannical nature. So to be just, God would automatically have to punish Hitler's parents. That same logic would apply to everyone who contributed or facilitated Hitler's rise to infamy.


So for you and me to blame just ourselves for what we are would be quite unjust. This is not to say that we hold no responsibility for our actions, just not all of them.


Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?


Regards

DL

WRONG. The entire point of Christianity is we CANNOT earn salvation. Try again grasshopper.

Yet your own scriptures say you can.

Have you not read your bible?

Let me help you.


Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death The following 5 quotes are why I call what your God did murder. As you can see, a sacrifice was not required.


because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.


Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.


The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]


2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.


As you can see all are saved without a sacrifice.

Try again grasshopper, and perhaps try to think before looking stupid and uneducated about your own immoral views.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

"He filled a mighty Cup with Mind, and sent it down ... to the hearts of men ' Baptise thyself with this Cup's baptism, . . . thou canst ascend to Him that hath sent down the Cup, thou that dost know for what thou didst come into being.' As many then as understood . . . became partakers in the Gnosis ; and when they had ' received the Mind,' they were made ' perfect men.' " — The Cup or Monad, in the Corpus Hermeticum.

Thanks for this.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

"Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?"

There is no need for ‘salvation,’ of course – given the fact that there is no ‘afterlife.’

The fear of death is ancient and powerful, religions seek to exploit this fear with nonsense such as ‘salvation’; whether it’s ‘evil’ or not depends on how such dogma is used by theists.

It is obviously used to create false guilt that only that religion can appease, if the guilty pay good hard cash for their salvation.

Fraudsters work for cash, nothing else and fraudsters are exactly what all priests and imams are.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?


Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation. God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. This teaching follows the one where we are told that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. This makes the notions of condemnation and the need for salvation obvious lies.


Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell. We think God too good a creator to ever have to condemn anyone. Our God is a winner, not the loser God that Christianity has invented. All the Gods are myths created to help us reach our highest human potential and are only tools to open our inner eye. Our single eye as Jesus calls it.


How we can forgive ourselves is that as Universalists, we have tied righteousness to equality. The logic trail from there says that if God is to punish anyone, he would have to punish everyone as everyone contributes to what we all are.


For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him and God would know what we know today, that spanking creates resentment and a delinquent attitude. That beginning would see Hitler's parents setting his mindset which eventually flowered into his tyrannical nature. So to be just, God would automatically have to punish Hitler's parents. That same logic would apply to everyone who contributed or facilitated Hitler's rise to infamy.


So for you and me to blame just ourselves for what we are would be quite unjust. This is not to say that we hold no responsibility for our actions, just not all of them.


Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?


Regards

DL

"Our Saviour. Two thieves. One is supposed to have been saved and the other (he searches for the contrary of saved) damned."

"Saved from what?"

"We are all born mad. Some remain so."

- Samuel Beckett, Waiting for Godot

I agree that madness is a good word for those who have become idol worshipers of imaginary supernatural Gods and that would include all Christians and Muslims.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

If you don't have to earn it then why all the prohibitions in the bible?

Why does anyone have rules that they teach their children to obey?

If you told someone that if they jumped off a cliff they would be smashed on the rocks and would die would it be because you were being a repressive petty tyrant?

If they disregarded your warning and they jumped off a cliff and died would their death be a cruel punishment from you for their disobedience?

In the same way the laws were given as instruction for those who seek a higher realm of conscious existence above that of people who are not rational.

What is so difficult about following a rule to not be stupid?

for instance Kosher law is not about what is acceptable or not to be served and eaten. It is about what is acceptable or not to teach and learn. a warning to stand guard over the sanctity of your own mind so that it will not be defiled and contaminated by the teachings of people who resemble one lower beast or another as in the command to refrain from the teaching of unclean creatures that do not ruminate.

If you disregard the warning and swallow the teachings of unclean irrational creatures that do not ruminate your mind will become defiled and contaminated and you will degenerate into an unclean irrational creature that cannot ruminate.

The prohibitions in the bible are not about crime and punishment, they are about cause and effect for either good or evil.

Not a reward or a punishment from any God but teaching from a higher sphere of intelligent life about the direct consequences of our own deliberate choices in what we as human beings either do or fail to do...

"In the same way the laws were given as instruction for those who seek a higher realm of conscious existence above that of people who are not rational."

This from one who believes in a miracle working super God.

Those you say are not rational are way more rational than those of your ilk who believe in the supernatural and other miraculous fantasies.

Regards
DL

 

[koshergrl]

Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?


Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation. God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. This teaching follows the one where we are told that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. This makes the notions of condemnation and the need for salvation obvious lies.


Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell. We think God too good a creator to ever have to condemn anyone. Our God is a winner, not the loser God that Christianity has invented. All the Gods are myths created to help us reach our highest human potential and are only tools to open our inner eye. Our single eye as Jesus calls it.


How we can forgive ourselves is that as Universalists, we have tied righteousness to equality. The logic trail from there says that if God is to punish anyone, he would have to punish everyone as everyone contributes to what we all are.


For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him and God would know what we know today, that spanking creates resentment and a delinquent attitude. That beginning would see Hitler's parents setting his mindset which eventually flowered into his tyrannical nature. So to be just, God would automatically have to punish Hitler's parents. That same logic would apply to everyone who contributed or facilitated Hitler's rise to infamy.


So for you and me to blame just ourselves for what we are would be quite unjust. This is not to say that we hold no responsibility for our actions, just not all of them.


Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?


Regards

DL

WRONG. The entire point of Christianity is we CANNOT earn salvation. Try again grasshopper.

If you don't have to earn it then why all the prohibitions in the bible?

You have to earn your place in heaven by doing exactly what you are told by the magic sky man

You could just read the bible and find the answers that you like to ask other people....

 

[Skull Pilot]

Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?


Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation. God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. This teaching follows the one where we are told that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. This makes the notions of condemnation and the need for salvation obvious lies.


Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell. We think God too good a creator to ever have to condemn anyone. Our God is a winner, not the loser God that Christianity has invented. All the Gods are myths created to help us reach our highest human potential and are only tools to open our inner eye. Our single eye as Jesus calls it.


How we can forgive ourselves is that as Universalists, we have tied righteousness to equality. The logic trail from there says that if God is to punish anyone, he would have to punish everyone as everyone contributes to what we all are.


For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him and God would know what we know today, that spanking creates resentment and a delinquent attitude. That beginning would see Hitler's parents setting his mindset which eventually flowered into his tyrannical nature. So to be just, God would automatically have to punish Hitler's parents. That same logic would apply to everyone who contributed or facilitated Hitler's rise to infamy.


So for you and me to blame just ourselves for what we are would be quite unjust. This is not to say that we hold no responsibility for our actions, just not all of them.


Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?


Regards

DL

WRONG. The entire point of Christianity is we CANNOT earn salvation. Try again grasshopper.

If you don't have to earn it then why all the prohibitions in the bible?

You have to earn your place in heaven by doing exactly what you are told by the magic sky man

You could just read the bible and find the answers that you like to ask other people....

Oh I had my turn at Catholic indoctrination
I just can't believe that people think the god in the bible doesn't demand obeisance for the reward of salvation

 

[Skull Pilot]

If you don't have to earn it then why all the prohibitions in the bible?

Why does anyone have rules that they teach their children to obey?

If you told someone that if they jumped off a cliff they would be smashed on the rocks and would die would it be because you were being a repressive petty tyrant?

If they disregarded your warning and they jumped off a cliff and died would their death be a cruel punishment from you for their disobedience?

In the same way the laws were given as instruction for those who seek a higher realm of conscious existence above that of people who are not rational.

What is so difficult about following a rule to not be stupid?

for instance Kosher law is not about what is acceptable or not to be served and eaten. It is about what is acceptable or not to teach and learn. a warning to stand guard over the sanctity of your own mind so that it will not be defiled and contaminated by the teachings of people who resemble one lower beast or another as in the command to refrain from the teaching of unclean creatures that do not ruminate.

If you disregard the warning and swallow the teachings of unclean irrational creatures that do not ruminate your mind will become defiled and contaminated and you will degenerate into an unclean irrational creature that cannot ruminate.

The prohibitions in the bible are not about crime and punishment, they are about cause and effect for either good or evil.

Not a reward or a punishment from any God but teaching from a higher sphere of intelligent life about the direct consequences of our own deliberate choices in what we as human beings either do or fail to do...

So if you broke every commandment and spit in god's eye you would still get your reward in heaven

I don't think so

You have to earn your salvation by obeisance to the sky man

If you do not heed the directions given in the law of course you cannot receive the life promised for compliance or enter the realm of intelligences that do.

How could it possibly be any other way?

And its not about earning salvation, its about finding it and holding on to it by heeding the instruction given in the law and standing guard over the purity of your own mind.

Is that something that you don't want to do?

Then don't. Just remember that you won't have any sky man to blame and no God will be punishing you for spitting in his eye when your life turns to shit.

That's funny

Heaven is the carrot hell is the stick
you earn the reward or you get the punishment

So basically you religious folk are ruled by greed in the quest for your reward or the fear of your punishment

 

[hobelim]

If you don't have to earn it then why all the prohibitions in the bible?

Why does anyone have rules that they teach their children to obey?

If you told someone that if they jumped off a cliff they would be smashed on the rocks and would die would it be because you were being a repressive petty tyrant?

If they disregarded your warning and they jumped off a cliff and died would their death be a cruel punishment from you for their disobedience?

In the same way the laws were given as instruction for those who seek a higher realm of conscious existence above that of people who are not rational.

What is so difficult about following a rule to not be stupid?

for instance Kosher law is not about what is acceptable or not to be served and eaten. It is about what is acceptable or not to teach and learn. a warning to stand guard over the sanctity of your own mind so that it will not be defiled and contaminated by the teachings of people who resemble one lower beast or another as in the command to refrain from the teaching of unclean creatures that do not ruminate.

If you disregard the warning and swallow the teachings of unclean irrational creatures that do not ruminate your mind will become defiled and contaminated and you will degenerate into an unclean irrational creature that cannot ruminate.

The prohibitions in the bible are not about crime and punishment, they are about cause and effect for either good or evil.

Not a reward or a punishment from any God but teaching from a higher sphere of intelligent life about the direct consequences of our own deliberate choices in what we as human beings either do or fail to do...

"In the same way the laws were given as instruction for those who seek a higher realm of conscious existence above that of people who are not rational."

This from one who believes in a miracle working super God.

Those you say are not rational are way more rational than those of your ilk who believe in the supernatural and other miraculous fantasies.

Regards
DL

You must be thinking about someone else.

I never mentioned a belief in the supernatural or miraculous fantasies.

 

[hobelim]

If you don't have to earn it then why all the prohibitions in the bible?

Why does anyone have rules that they teach their children to obey?

If you told someone that if they jumped off a cliff they would be smashed on the rocks and would die would it be because you were being a repressive petty tyrant?

If they disregarded your warning and they jumped off a cliff and died would their death be a cruel punishment from you for their disobedience?

In the same way the laws were given as instruction for those who seek a higher realm of conscious existence above that of people who are not rational.

What is so difficult about following a rule to not be stupid?

for instance Kosher law is not about what is acceptable or not to be served and eaten. It is about what is acceptable or not to teach and learn. a warning to stand guard over the sanctity of your own mind so that it will not be defiled and contaminated by the teachings of people who resemble one lower beast or another as in the command to refrain from the teaching of unclean creatures that do not ruminate.

If you disregard the warning and swallow the teachings of unclean irrational creatures that do not ruminate your mind will become defiled and contaminated and you will degenerate into an unclean irrational creature that cannot ruminate.

The prohibitions in the bible are not about crime and punishment, they are about cause and effect for either good or evil.

Not a reward or a punishment from any God but teaching from a higher sphere of intelligent life about the direct consequences of our own deliberate choices in what we as human beings either do or fail to do...

So if you broke every commandment and spit in god's eye you would still get your reward in heaven

I don't think so

You have to earn your salvation by obeisance to the sky man

If you do not heed the directions given in the law of course you cannot receive the life promised for compliance or enter the realm of intelligences that do.

How could it possibly be any other way?

And its not about earning salvation, its about finding it and holding on to it by heeding the instruction given in the law and standing guard over the purity of your own mind.

Is that something that you don't want to do?

Then don't. Just remember that you won't have any sky man to blame and no God will be punishing you for spitting in his eye when your life turns to shit.

That's funny

Heaven is the carrot hell is the stick
you earn the reward or you get the punishment

So basically you religious folk are ruled by greed in the quest for your reward or the fear of your punishment

Maybe some are. Not me.

I've seen with my own eyes otherwise good and intelligent people who were well thought of by everybody throw their minds in the garbage in exchange for a load of specious falsehoods and degenerate into irrational jackasses overnight, in the name of the Lord of course, that no rational person could stand to be around for more than a few minutes. Many have never recovered.

I believe what I see with my own eyes, hear with my own ears, and can perceive in my own mind.

For me its not so much about fear or a quest for presents from God as it is preferring to maintain control over my own mind and life, especially having the knowledge of what happens to people who don't and the suffering that is bound to follow once someone loses their mind and 'just believes' without thinking or ever seeking proof of the truth in what they claim to believe..


and again it is not about reward or punishment it is about cause and effect for either good or evil, life or death.

I choose life.

 

[koshergrl]

Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?


Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation. God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. This teaching follows the one where we are told that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. This makes the notions of condemnation and the need for salvation obvious lies.


Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell. We think God too good a creator to ever have to condemn anyone. Our God is a winner, not the loser God that Christianity has invented. All the Gods are myths created to help us reach our highest human potential and are only tools to open our inner eye. Our single eye as Jesus calls it.


How we can forgive ourselves is that as Universalists, we have tied righteousness to equality. The logic trail from there says that if God is to punish anyone, he would have to punish everyone as everyone contributes to what we all are.


For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him and God would know what we know today, that spanking creates resentment and a delinquent attitude. That beginning would see Hitler's parents setting his mindset which eventually flowered into his tyrannical nature. So to be just, God would automatically have to punish Hitler's parents. That same logic would apply to everyone who contributed or facilitated Hitler's rise to infamy.


So for you and me to blame just ourselves for what we are would be quite unjust. This is not to say that we hold no responsibility for our actions, just not all of them.


Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?


Regards

DL

WRONG. The entire point of Christianity is we CANNOT earn salvation. Try again grasshopper.

If you don't have to earn it then why all the prohibitions in the bible?

You have to earn your place in heaven by doing exactly what you are told by the magic sky man

You could just read the bible and find the answers that you like to ask other people....

Oh I had my turn at Catholic indoctrination
I just can't believe that people think the god in the bible doesn't demand obeisance for the reward of salvation

And apparently you managed to get through your Catholic doctrination without actually reading the bible. I repeat..if you have questions about what the bible says, and why, you should probably look to the bible for answers. They're all in there.