Is the US to blame for all of Cuba's ills?

[theHawk]

U.S. Vows Only to 'Condemn' Cuba Violence As Havana Accuses Washington

Thousands protested in Havana, as well as San Antonio de los Baños and Palma Soriano, on July 11 to demand President Miguel Diaz-Canel step down.

www.newsweek.com

As people in Cuba begin to protest their government because of shortages and long lines and a failing economy, etc., government officials in Cuba blame the US for all their ills.

So is the US to blame? On the one hand, Marxists want to destroy the US, but on the other hand, seem to complain when the US does not help them economically or boycotts them economically. Why then do they want to destroy the US economy that they seem to need?

Either that or there is some other hidden way the US is destroying Cuba

Anyone?

And the only response from Joe Biden is that he condemns any violence. There is no support for anyone as he basically ignores what is gong on.

I assume Bernie Sanders is having a panic attack and does blame the US

So what about you?

The US should take credit for it, not “blame”. Since when is it a bad thing when a totalitarian communist regime falls? Oh, when there are millions of leftwing loonies that love communism. Fuck em.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Threatening Marriot is a crime.

Is it against the Geneva Convention of 1906?

LOL!

Did you ever find the proof of your claim in the actual text? Post it.

 

[Donald H]

What a slamdunk this Cuban situation has become for Obama's reputation!

And oh what a condemnation of Trump's decision making at the most critical time!

 

[surada]

I was very pleased when Obama lifted sanctions and decided to normalize relations.

Of course you were.
What concessions did he get from Cuba in return?

What does the US need from little Cuba?

Bullies and bastards hold no fascination for me.

 

[kaz]

Nonsense.
Individual corruption is what harmed Venezuela, and socialism had nothing at all to do with it.
The US also illegally caused a great deal of harm.
Most of the world is socialist, and all the good parts of the US are, like public transportation, education, social security, disability, ADC, food stamps, unemployment compensation, etc.

hahaha that's the problem isn't it? people are corrupt, people aren't angels....socialism just allows for it to flow widely, and always ends with the vast majority poor, and eating dogs.

China, USSR, Venezula, Cuba, Vietnam, every nation that has adopted Socialism.

Why do you think people being unemployment and getting UE benefits, and food stamps is a good part of America? I think it's horrible...we need less of it, and more people working.

Wrong.
China, USSR, Venezuela, Cuba were Stalinist, which is state capitalism.
Nothing socialist about them.
You can't have anything collaborative, cooperative, and communal without also being democratic.
Vietnam was not so Stalinist I believe.

Social welfare programs are always going to be temporary needs.
Without them you will have far more desperation and crime.
So they are always good to have as back up.
Without government, we would have far less work, such as no internet.
No private company could have invested what the internet took.

hahaa State Capitalism is socialism. It’s just another way to brand it that socialist came up with the deflect from the harms of socialism

The Govt owns the means and production. That’s socialism.

Social programs like welfare aren’t socialism…they don’t work the best, but they aren’t socialism

There is no difference between government "owning" the means of production and controlling it.

Yes, redistribution of wealth is a socialist policy. That alone doesn't make a government entirely socialist, but government is raping producers, that directly impacts the means of production and forces them into supporting government social policy

Socialism is NOT about central government.
Central government is fake and owned by the wealthy elite, so is the opposite of socialism.
Socialism is about local control over regulations in order to prevent abuses of individual liberties.
Laws that prevent slavery by force are useless if one can still force slavery by economic extortion.
And socialism is just about preventing economic slavery.
You can just as easily do that with regulations than with government industries.

If you think creating a central powerful government to dictate is socialism, you are totally wrong.
That is just giving the capitalist an even easier means of taking over because then there is only one company instead of many competing ones that neutralize each other a little.

Socialism is NOT about central government.

Too vague.

Socialism IS about central government ... control over the economy ...

It's central economic planning. Only government can do that because only government can use guns to force people to make decisions against their own interest.

Capitalism is distributed economic planning. Companies, Labor, producers, consumers, we all make our own decisions.

That all the despots you listed as "capitalists" were not centrally planning their economies is more of your stupid moronic shit. There was no economic freedom in those countries, they were all socialist government controlled economies

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Cuba was in particular bad shape because Batista had managed to steal the entire national treasury, so was totally broke.

Thank goodness Castro arrived to steal the entire national treasury for the next 50 years.

 

[kaz]

Funny how if this isn't a Republican or a Democrat thing the only issue to you is you want a Communist government propped up.

Why shouldn't any American want to defend Cuba's communist government when that government's revolution is bringing prosperity to Cuba's people?

The only reason it took so many years is because of America's evil sanctions being used to hurt the Cuban people.

And now the US has simply lost the ability to continue with it's cruelty due to China coming to their rescue with much needed support and economic aid.

It's no coincidence that America is fomenting trouble in Cuba at this time. America sees a huge loss in influence in it's own sphere of influence, right next door!

Will China harbour its nuclear armed warships in its new Cuban naval base?

Russia, China, Iran Warn U.S. Must Not Intervene in Cuba

Russia "stressed the inadmissibility of foreign interference" in Cuba, while China "firmly opposes foreign interference in Cuba's internal affairs."

www.newsweek.com

America is now involved in covert interference in Cuba that America is weakly attempting to keep hidden under the carpet.

But can that continue at that level when the loss to America is so large?
This thread could serve to discuss the impending possibilities if most Americans could rise above their 'domestic' politics bullshit sniping.

Will America tutn to the use of military force to hold some influence in Cuba? And if so on what possible pretense could be left that could sell to the rest of the world?

Can you stop vomiting propaganda long enough to write a coherent post?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I was very pleased when Obama lifted sanctions and decided to normalize relations.

Of course you were.
What concessions did he get from Cuba in return?

What does the US need from little Cuba?

Bullies and bastards hold no fascination for me.

What does the US need from little Cuba?

Freedom for the Cuban people.

Bullies and bastards hold no fascination for me.

Unless they're on the left.......fan girl.

 

[kaz]

Nonsense.
Individual corruption is what harmed Venezuela, and socialism had nothing at all to do with it.
The US also illegally caused a great deal of harm.
Most of the world is socialist, and all the good parts of the US are, like public transportation, education, social security, disability, ADC, food stamps, unemployment compensation, etc.

hahaha that's the problem isn't it? people are corrupt, people aren't angels....socialism just allows for it to flow widely, and always ends with the vast majority poor, and eating dogs.

China, USSR, Venezula, Cuba, Vietnam, every nation that has adopted Socialism.

Why do you think people being unemployment and getting UE benefits, and food stamps is a good part of America? I think it's horrible...we need less of it, and more people working.

Wrong.
China, USSR, Venezuela, Cuba were Stalinist, which is state capitalism.
Nothing socialist about them.
You can't have anything collaborative, cooperative, and communal without also being democratic.
Vietnam was not so Stalinist I believe.

Social welfare programs are always going to be temporary needs.
Without them you will have far more desperation and crime.
So they are always good to have as back up.
Without government, we would have far less work, such as no internet.
No private company could have invested what the internet took.

hahaa State Capitalism is socialism. It’s just another way to brand it that socialist came up with the deflect from the harms of socialism

The Govt owns the means and production. That’s socialism.

Social programs like welfare aren’t socialism…they don’t work the best, but they aren’t socialism

There is no difference between government "owning" the means of production and controlling it.

Yes, redistribution of wealth is a socialist policy. That alone doesn't make a government entirely socialist, but government is raping producers, that directly impacts the means of production and forces them into supporting government social policy

The National Socialist Hitler perfected the modern day socialist approach to controlling corporations.

He said, "Why nationalize industry when you can nationalize the people?" Hitler understood that bureaucrats can't even run government efficiently, let alone corporations. The only issue is controlling what those corporations do or do not do. Just let the experts be experts and mind your own business, unless you need them for something or need them to stop something. But the old style socialists like Cuba and North Korea still don't get it.

Hitler was an anti-socialist appointed Chancellor by the wealthy elite, in order to murder all the socialists and communists.
He never controlled any corporation except Junkers, whose CEO refused to support the war.
Military contracts were awarded on a capitalist bidding scheme just like the US now.

When you need to control people you just lie and claim there is some sort of threat, like Saddam having tons of anthrax and weeks away from nuclear weapons.

Nazi actually stood for the socialist party and Germany was a government controlled economy = socialist = left wing.

Just more of your stupid propaganda

 

[kaz]

Funny how if this isn't a Republican or a Democrat thing the only issue to you is you want a Communist government propped up.

Why shouldn't any American want to defend Cuba's communist government when that government's revolution is bringing prosperity to Cuba's people?

The only reason it took so many years is because of America's evil sanctions being used to hurt the Cuban people.

And now the US has simply lost the ability to continue with it's cruelty due to China coming to their rescue with much needed support and economic aid.

It's no coincidence that America is fomenting trouble in Cuba at this time. America sees a huge loss in influence in it's own sphere of influence, right next door!

Will China harbour its nuclear armed warships in its new Cuban naval base?

Sadly that isn't a joke, is it?

That which is a joke to you is not likely a joke to me.

Obama was most likely intent on saving Cuba from China's expanding influence.

And now there's just no way of trying to say that Trump completely blew it on foreign policy regarding Cuba.

That is, unless some Americans are going to claim that Trump wasn't making critical decisions?

The rest of the world doesn't give a fk now. What is in Cuba, IS!

Blah, blah, Marx, blah, blah Lenin blah blah

 

[kaz]

hahaa State Capitalism is socialism. It’s just another way to brand it that socialist came up with the deflect from the harms of socialism

The Govt owns the means and production. That’s socialism.

Social programs like welfare aren’t socialism…they don’t work the best, but they aren’t socialism

There is no difference between government "owning" the means of production and controlling it.

Yes, redistribution of wealth is a socialist policy. That alone doesn't make a government entirely socialist, but government is raping producers, that directly impacts the means of production and forces them into supporting government social policy

The National Socialist Hitler perfected the modern day socialist approach to controlling corporations.

He said, "Why nationalize industry when you can nationalize the people?" Hitler understood that bureaucrats can't even run government efficiently, let alone corporations. The only issue is controlling what those corporations do or do not do. Just let the experts be experts and mind your own business, unless you need them for something or need them to stop something. But the old style socialists like Cuba and North Korea still don't get it.

Hitler gave the Industrialists free labor.

Government doesn't create anything. Nothing is "free," it is confiscated from the companies to start with.

I'd have thought as a Republican for 35 years you'd have known that. Guess not

Oh come on, the government created lots of things, like the internet, computers, TVA, Hoover Damn, the St. Lawrence Seaway, the Panama Canal, NASA, etc.

Bull shit. Confiscating money and spending it isn't "creating" anything

 

[Weatherman2020]

I agree! One capitalist nation on earth can bring any Commie nation to its knees without trying.

You lack any ability to understand this discussion and so you try to disrupt with childish spamming.

Can America bring China or Russia to their knees?
yes, no, maybe, whatever is comforting for Americans to believe!

A more relevant question now would be whether America can bring Cuba to its knees!

Hey, don’t attack me for agreeing with you. One capitalist nation single handedly brought down communist Cuba. Every other nation on earth couldn’t help the Commie nirvana.

BTW. I’m friends with a Cuban rescued from a Cuban prison by Jimmy Carter. You?

 

[Donald H]

U.S. Vows Only to 'Condemn' Cuba Violence As Havana Accuses Washington

Thousands protested in Havana, as well as San Antonio de los Baños and Palma Soriano, on July 11 to demand President Miguel Diaz-Canel step down.

www.newsweek.com

As people in Cuba begin to protest their government because of shortages and long lines and a failing economy, etc., government officials in Cuba blame the US for all their ills.

So is the US to blame? On the one hand, Marxists want to destroy the US, but on the other hand, seem to complain when the US does not help them economically or boycotts them economically. Why then do they want to destroy the US economy that they seem to need?

Either that or there is some other hidden way the US is destroying Cuba

Anyone?

And the only response from Joe Biden is that he condemns any violence. There is no support for anyone as he basically ignores what is gong on.

I assume Bernie Sanders is having a panic attack and does blame the US

So what about you?

The US should take credit for it, not “blame”. Since when is it a bad thing when a totalitarian communist regime falls? Oh, when there are millions of leftwing loonies that love communism. Fuck em.

The US isn't to blame for anything currently happening in Cuba that's of any consequence. It's a very small scale US fomenting of trouble on the streets that is very shortlived and irrelevant.

Frankly, the best thing the US could do for Cuba is to do as you suggest. Fuck me. America has lost any ability to do much more without turning to full scale military aggression.

Did you think that Cuba's communist regime was falling?
Maybe, but why would you think that?

 

[kaz]

America is now involved in covert interference in Cuba that America is weakly attempting to keep hidden under the carpet.

But can that continue at that level when the loss to America is so large?
This thread could serve to discuss the impending possibilities if most Americans could rise above their 'domestic' politics bullshit sniping.

Will America tutn to the use of military force to hold some influence in Cuba? And if so on what possible pretense could be left that could sell to the rest of the world?

Do you have any proof of that or just idle speculation?

No, I haven't any proof on any of it, and that's not relative to something specific I said.

If the Chinese naval base in Cuban is your concern then you can definitely take it as speculation on my part.

If it's America's use of military force that concerns you then you can read what I said as a question.

Or if it's US covert interference in Cuba that's behind the demonstrations then same.

To you wanting to believe it is proof, that's all it takes

 

[Weatherman2020]

Wrong.
China, USSR, Venezuela, Cuba were Stalinist, which is state capitalism.
Nothing socialist about them.
You can't have anything collaborative, cooperative, and communal without also being democratic.
Vietnam was not so Stalinist I believe.

Social welfare programs are always going to be temporary needs.
Without them you will have far more desperation and crime.
So they are always good to have as back up.
Without government, we would have far less work, such as no internet.
No private company could have invested what the internet took.

hahaa State Capitalism is socialism. It’s just another way to brand it that socialist came up with the deflect from the harms of socialism

The Govt owns the means and production. That’s socialism.

Social programs like welfare aren’t socialism…they don’t work the best, but they aren’t socialism

There is no difference between government "owning" the means of production and controlling it.

Yes, redistribution of wealth is a socialist policy. That alone doesn't make a government entirely socialist, but government is raping producers, that directly impacts the means of production and forces them into supporting government social policy

The National Socialist Hitler perfected the modern day socialist approach to controlling corporations.

He said, "Why nationalize industry when you can nationalize the people?" Hitler understood that bureaucrats can't even run government efficiently, let alone corporations. The only issue is controlling what those corporations do or do not do. Just let the experts be experts and mind your own business, unless you need them for something or need them to stop something. But the old style socialists like Cuba and North Korea still don't get it.

Hitler gave the Industrialists free labor.

Government doesn't create anything. Nothing is "free," it is confiscated from the companies to start with.

I'd have thought as a Republican for 35 years you'd have known that. Guess not

Oh come on, the government created lots of things, like the internet, computers, TVA, Hoover Damn, the St. Lawrence Seaway, the Panama Canal, NASA, etc.

I guess being a Leftist you have no clue that government simply farms out to the private sector to create things.

 

[kaz]

Funny how if this isn't a Republican or a Democrat thing the only issue to you is you want a Communist government propped up.

Why shouldn't any American want to defend Cuba's communist government when that government's revolution is bringing prosperity to Cuba's people?

The only reason it took so many years is because of America's evil sanctions being used to hurt the Cuban people.

And now the US has simply lost the ability to continue with it's cruelty due to China coming to their rescue with much needed support and economic aid.

It's no coincidence that America is fomenting trouble in Cuba at this time. America sees a huge loss in influence in it's own sphere of influence, right next door!

Will China harbour its nuclear armed warships in its new Cuban naval base?

Sadly that isn't a joke, is it?

That which is a joke to you is not likely a joke to me.

Obama was most likely intent on saving Cuba from China's expanding influence.

And now there's just no way of trying to say that Trump completely blew it on foreign policy regarding Cuba.

That is, unless some Americans are going to claim that Trump wasn't making critical decisions?

The rest of the world doesn't give a fk now. What is in Cuba, IS!

Partners: China and Cuba | MR Online

Partners: China and Cuba | MR Online

In the 1960s, the main forms of the Chinese assistance offered to Cuba were preferential trade and interest-free loans. From 1961 to 1965, China gave Cuba an interest-free loan of 60 million U.S. dollars.

mronline.org

Feb 22, 2021 · In the 1960s, the main forms of the Chinese assistance offered to Cuba were preferential trade and interest-free loans. From 1961 to 1965, China gave Cuba an interest-free loan of 60 million U.S. dollars. The two sides signed the China-Cuba Economic Cooperation Agreement, Trade and Payment Agreement, and Technology Cooperation Protocol.

surada: I was a Republican for 35 years, kaz

kaz: Why? What issues did you agree with them on?

surada: {crickets}

Liars are so easily caught. If you weren't lying, that was the easiest question in the world. That's why it's so effective

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Who says Cuba ever failed?

You call Cuba a success?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Why shouldn't any American want to defend Cuba's communist government when that government's revolution is bringing prosperity to Cuba's people?

Dude!

What's in that bong?

 

[surada]

I was very pleased when Obama lifted sanctions and decided to normalize relations.

Of course you were.
What concessions did he get from Cuba in return?

What does the US need from little Cuba?

Bullies and bastards hold no fascination for me.

What does the US need from little Cuba?

Freedom for the Cuban people.

Bullies and bastards hold no fascination for me.

Unless they're on the left.......fan girl.

Slow down.. I don't think we should get people killed to free them. Freedom is organic. Let it be. I am opposed to forcing people.

 

[Donald H]

BTW. I’m friends with a Cuban rescued from a Cuban prison by Jimmy Carter. You?

OOOOOOooooooo!
Grow up and then try to say something that's relevant.