Is the US to blame for all of Cuba's ills?

[surada]

Nonsense.
Individual corruption is what harmed Venezuela, and socialism had nothing at all to do with it.
The US also illegally caused a great deal of harm.
Most of the world is socialist, and all the good parts of the US are, like public transportation, education, social security, disability, ADC, food stamps, unemployment compensation, etc.

hahaha that's the problem isn't it? people are corrupt, people aren't angels....socialism just allows for it to flow widely, and always ends with the vast majority poor, and eating dogs.

China, USSR, Venezula, Cuba, Vietnam, every nation that has adopted Socialism.

Why do you think people being unemployment and getting UE benefits, and food stamps is a good part of America? I think it's horrible...we need less of it, and more people working.

Wrong.
China, USSR, Venezuela, Cuba were Stalinist, which is state capitalism.
Nothing socialist about them.
You can't have anything collaborative, cooperative, and communal without also being democratic.
Vietnam was not so Stalinist I believe.

Social welfare programs are always going to be temporary needs.
Without them you will have far more desperation and crime.
So they are always good to have as back up.
Without government, we would have far less work, such as no internet.
No private company could have invested what the internet took.

hahaa State Capitalism is socialism. It’s just another way to brand it that socialist came up with the deflect from the harms of socialism

The Govt owns the means and production. That’s socialism.

Social programs like welfare aren’t socialism…they don’t work the best, but they aren’t socialism

There is no difference between government "owning" the means of production and controlling it.

Yes, redistribution of wealth is a socialist policy. That alone doesn't make a government entirely socialist, but government is raping producers, that directly impacts the means of production and forces them into supporting government social policy

The National Socialist Hitler perfected the modern day socialist approach to controlling corporations.

He said, "Why nationalize industry when you can nationalize the people?" Hitler understood that bureaucrats can't even run government efficiently, let alone corporations. The only issue is controlling what those corporations do or do not do. Just let the experts be experts and mind your own business, unless you need them for something or need them to stop something. But the old style socialists like Cuba and North Korea still don't get it.

Hitler gave the Industrialists free labor.

 

[Votto]

Yes the US is in part, to blame.

See all this white space here to type in is where you get to splain your point. I was not looking really for a short yes or no.

Continue

Okay no problem, but I just did that in another thread on this topic.

Are you aware the US has heavily sanctioned and stopped all trade with Cuba for 60 years? Now put the puzzle together. The world’s preeminent economic and military nation doing this to Cuba for 60 FUCKING YEARS, will have a negative impact.

No? Yes?

The U.S. does not stop the rest of the world from trading with Cuba, so that excuse doesn't wash.

Cuba made a calculated decision to side with the former USSR for political power against the US, so why not just take their medicine like they asked for?

They simply chose a failing ideology to side with and subsequent failing economy.

Wrong again. You’re wrong a lot.

When Castro came to power he tried to have a good relationship with the US. The US said fuck off, we love our big corporations and oil companies raping your land and controlling your people. Hence, he had no choice but to seek help from the USSR.

We’ve seen this picture before…Ho Chi Minh tried the same thing with the US, but got the same response.

Assuming you are right, Castro sold his soul to the USSR instead?

Are you saying Cuba could not survive without selling its soul to either?

Yes, all countries have been forced to choose which of the large and powerful nations they want to align with in order to prevent being destroyed by one of them, if they don'[t have a protector.
Cuba was in particular bad shape because Batista had managed to steal the entire national treasury, so was totally broke.

So now the economic and military super powers are China and the US, and both use capitalism to fuel their economies

So essentially socialism can never work without such capitalism

Correct?

Is preaching socialism then akin to convincing people to join a suicide pact of mass starvation and misery?

No, all successful countries actually are socialist.
Socialism does not mean ANY government enterprise at all, but merely enough government regulation to prevent abuses of individual rights, like laws against child labor, slavery, mandatory overtime, monopolies, usury, discrimination, etc.

But there also is no doubt that capitalism can be more individually controlled so can be quicker and more innovative, so can out perform group leadership that is slowed by consensus.

The charge was made that Cuba had to sell their collective soul to another country to survive. Moreover, without the US they can't survive

So you are saying that premise is pure BS.

So why then has Cuba failed?

Also, who are the success stories of socialism in your opinion?

Obviously Cuba was so threatened by the US military that they had to go with the Soviets.
We STILL invaded Cuba with the Bay of Pigs, even with Soviet alliance.

Who says Cuba ever failed?
Being poor after being wealthy from casinos is not failure.
It is easy to point to Scandinavian countries as socialist successes, such as heavy Swedish government investment into Volvo, etc.
But obviously the US is totally socialist.
We have laws against abusive anti-labor practices, we have public schools, etc.

There is no comparison to Europe and the US and Cuba in terms of socialism.

I do not have time to watch videos, but if the idea is that someone thinks socialism requires government ownership of enterprise, that is wrong. As long as you have labor protection law and laws preventing things like monopolies, that is socialism.

Really, but whose definition?

What is your definition?

And why do you have time to post all day but not watch a short video?

 

[kaz]

Funny how if this isn't a Republican or a Democrat thing the only issue to you is you want a Communist government propped up.

Why shouldn't any American want to defend Cuba's communist government when that government's revolution is bringing prosperity to Cuba's people?

The only reason it took so many years is because of America's evil sanctions being used to hurt the Cuban people.

And now the US has simply lost the ability to continue with it's cruelty due to China coming to their rescue with much needed support and economic aid.

It's no coincidence that America is fomenting trouble in Cuba at this time. America sees a huge loss in influence in it's own sphere of influence, right next door!

Will China harbour its nuclear armed warships in its new Cuban naval base?

Sadly that isn't a joke, is it?

 

[pknopp]

where did Bush do that?

the law at the time said US businesses couldn’t do business with Cuba. Bush didn’t make the law.

Yes Trump put sanctions back on Cuba after they backed the oppressive dictator of Venezuela

And properly so. That is the proper response to a nation that is an oppressive monster to it's own people
and tries to aid another dictator/butcher, Hugo Chavez, in Venezuela spread socialist misery to other nations.

You have to snicker at people who moan about the poor people of Cuba while advocating the same shit here in the US.

All I can do is smh

Who supports cutting people off from the things they need?

See Venezuela and how Socialism supplies the people's needs.

Good grief

If we couldn't have just printed, printed, printed, tell me how our needs would have been met after crashing the economy? What happens to GM if we couldn't print billions to give them?

they file for bankruptcy…like they did even after Obama and Xiden gave them billions…talk about a major f up

No idea who you are talking about.

taxpayers still gave them billions........or what we call Capitalism.

you weren’t talking about the auto bailout?

i am not sure what you are talking about.

Bank, auto, farmers, etc etc etc. If Venezuela could just print, print, print they would be fine also.

We can now but that isn't going to last.

i’m sorry you are gonna have to be more specific…the auto bailouts run by obama and xiden were stupid, and lead to the same result…agreed

what else are you talking about?

Venezuela could have, they had wealth…they have one of the largest oil reserves in the world. So it’s not that that was the issue…it’s the economic system and leftist policies

I have no idea who you are talking about.

you are the one that asked what would have happened had we not given the auto industry all that money.
i answered.


then you made this silly claim about how we are like venezuela…

it’s obvious you have no clue

I stated the only difference. You did nothing to dispute my position.

 

[kaz]

Well JFK tried to lie about it and pretend the US had nothing to do with it.

But that is how democrats roll. LBJ pulled a similar stunt in Vietnam by falsely claiming the Vietnamese attacked the US to justify that war.

But the DNC controlled media will only talk about how bad Orange man is, someone who never started a war, something unheard of in the US when discussing modern day Presidents.

The biggest screwup was the Bay of Pigs. Leaders came to the White House and met with Kennedy. They left thinking he agreed to provide them air support.

They would not have gone without it. Then he didn't provide it and they were slaughtered on the beach.

That was the most specific thing that convinced Castro he had to accept Russian involvement even though he didn't trust Russia or their motives.

That is 100% on JFK. He should have provided the support. Or if he wasn't going to do that, he should have at least told them he wasn't going to provide it.

It's all on him

No, I think Castro had made up his mind despite the incident.

He was rather proud that he alone was in the middle of the entire world being on the brink of a nuclear Holocaust.

Dictators get off on that sort of thing.

Oh, well you think he did. Well, there it is then. That's settled. Thanks!

So as an intellectual exercise since this isn't what happened, just speculating, if you were Castro, why might you not want Russian troops in your country. Oh never mind, you already said that wasn't an issue to him, he already decided

 

[kaz]

Wrong.
China, USSR, Venezuela, Cuba were Stalinist, which is state capitalism.
Nothing socialist about them.
You can't have anything collaborative, cooperative, and communal without also being democratic.
Vietnam was not so Stalinist I believe.

Social welfare programs are always going to be temporary needs.
Without them you will have far more desperation and crime.
So they are always good to have as back up.
Without government, we would have far less work, such as no internet.
No private company could have invested what the internet took.

hahaa State Capitalism is socialism. It’s just another way to brand it that socialist came up with the deflect from the harms of socialism

The Govt owns the means and production. That’s socialism.

Social programs like welfare aren’t socialism…they don’t work the best, but they aren’t socialism

There is no difference between government "owning" the means of production and controlling it.

Yes, redistribution of wealth is a socialist policy. That alone doesn't make a government entirely socialist, but government is raping producers, that directly impacts the means of production and forces them into supporting government social policy

The National Socialist Hitler perfected the modern day socialist approach to controlling corporations.

He said, "Why nationalize industry when you can nationalize the people?" Hitler understood that bureaucrats can't even run government efficiently, let alone corporations. The only issue is controlling what those corporations do or do not do. Just let the experts be experts and mind your own business, unless you need them for something or need them to stop something. But the old style socialists like Cuba and North Korea still don't get it.

Hitler gave the Industrialists free labor.

Government doesn't create anything. Nothing is "free," it is confiscated from the companies to start with.

I'd have thought as a Republican for 35 years you'd have known that. Guess not

 

[Donald H]

Obviously Cuba was so threatened by the US military that they had to go with the Soviets.
We STILL invaded Cuba with the Bay of Pigs, even with Soviet alliance.

No, not with Soviet alliance. There was no Soviet presense in Cuba that was fighting on the side of the revolution.

Who says Cuba ever failed?
Being poor after being wealthy from casinos is not failure.

A great point but probably too nuanced for Americans to understand. Even though everybody should understand that the revolution was the 'people's' popular cause of freedom.

And as an after-though, sadly most Americans still believe that the Kennedy blocade was a victory for American power, when it was Krushev's victory as a tradeoff.

 

[Rigby5]

where did Bush do that?

the law at the time said US businesses couldn’t do business with Cuba. Bush didn’t make the law.

Yes Trump put sanctions back on Cuba after they backed the oppressive dictator of Venezuela

And properly so. That is the proper response to a nation that is an oppressive monster to it's own people
and tries to aid another dictator/butcher, Hugo Chavez, in Venezuela spread socialist misery to other nations.

Actually what Chavez did with Petro Caribe was pretty smart.

Face facts, Socialism destroyed Venezuela... it's a cancer that's never worked....and never will.
A failed economic platform

Nonsense.
Individual corruption is what harmed Venezuela, and socialism had nothing at all to do with it.
The US also illegally caused a great deal of harm.
Most of the world is socialist, and all the good parts of the US are, like public transportation, education, social security, disability, ADC, food stamps, unemployment compensation, etc.

hahaha that's the problem isn't it? people are corrupt, people aren't angels....socialism just allows for it to flow widely, and always ends with the vast majority poor, and eating dogs.

China, USSR, Venezula, Cuba, Vietnam, every nation that has adopted Socialism.

Why do you think people being unemployment and getting UE benefits, and food stamps is a good part of America? I think it's horrible...we need less of it, and more people working.

Wrong.
China, USSR, Venezuela, Cuba were Stalinist, which is state capitalism.
Nothing socialist about them.
You can't have anything collaborative, cooperative, and communal without also being democratic.
Vietnam was not so Stalinist I believe.

Social welfare programs are always going to be temporary needs.
Without them you will have far more desperation and crime.
So they are always good to have as back up.
Without government, we would have far less work, such as no internet.
No private company could have invested what the internet took.

hahaa State Capitalism is socialism. It’s just another way to brand it that socialist came up with the deflect from the harms of socialism

The Govt owns the means and production. That’s socialism.

Social programs like welfare aren’t socialism…they don’t work the best, but they aren’t socialism

Wrong.
Socialism is where the people have economic freedom, not imposed government control.
State capitalism is identical to feudalism or any ancient tyrannical monarchy, which clearly is not at all socialist.
Govt owning means of production is NOT at all socialism.
Its only when the people own the means of production that you be assured it is socialism.
(but there are also many other ways to create socialism.)
Govt control or ownership is always the definition of capitalism, because it is not owned by the people and instead is profit motivated for a wealthy elite.
Its who benefits that matters.
And yes, social welfare programs are socialism because they help in hard times, so prevent people from being dictated to under pressure.

 

[kaz]

where did Bush do that?

the law at the time said US businesses couldn’t do business with Cuba. Bush didn’t make the law.

Yes Trump put sanctions back on Cuba after they backed the oppressive dictator of Venezuela

And properly so. That is the proper response to a nation that is an oppressive monster to it's own people
and tries to aid another dictator/butcher, Hugo Chavez, in Venezuela spread socialist misery to other nations.

You have to snicker at people who moan about the poor people of Cuba while advocating the same shit here in the US.

All I can do is smh

Who supports cutting people off from the things they need?

See Venezuela and how Socialism supplies the people's needs.

Good grief

If we couldn't have just printed, printed, printed, tell me how our needs would have been met after crashing the economy? What happens to GM if we couldn't print billions to give them?

they file for bankruptcy…like they did even after Obama and Xiden gave them billions…talk about a major f up

No idea who you are talking about.

taxpayers still gave them billions........or what we call Capitalism.

you weren’t talking about the auto bailout?

i am not sure what you are talking about.

Bank, auto, farmers, etc etc etc. If Venezuela could just print, print, print they would be fine also.

We can now but that isn't going to last.

i’m sorry you are gonna have to be more specific…the auto bailouts run by obama and xiden were stupid, and lead to the same result…agreed

what else are you talking about?

Venezuela could have, they had wealth…they have one of the largest oil reserves in the world. So it’s not that that was the issue…it’s the economic system and leftist policies

I have no idea who you are talking about.

you are the one that asked what would have happened had we not given the auto industry all that money.
i answered.


then you made this silly claim about how we are like venezuela…

it’s obvious you have no clue

I stated the only difference. You did nothing to dispute my position.

Your claim we aren't printing money was laughably wrong. You know zero about what is going it, that was nuts. We are printing money like crazy

 

[pknopp]

where did Bush do that?

the law at the time said US businesses couldn’t do business with Cuba. Bush didn’t make the law.

Yes Trump put sanctions back on Cuba after they backed the oppressive dictator of Venezuela

And properly so. That is the proper response to a nation that is an oppressive monster to it's own people
and tries to aid another dictator/butcher, Hugo Chavez, in Venezuela spread socialist misery to other nations.

You have to snicker at people who moan about the poor people of Cuba while advocating the same shit here in the US.

All I can do is smh

Who supports cutting people off from the things they need?

See Venezuela and how Socialism supplies the people's needs.

Good grief

If we couldn't have just printed, printed, printed, tell me how our needs would have been met after crashing the economy? What happens to GM if we couldn't print billions to give them?

they file for bankruptcy…like they did even after Obama and Xiden gave them billions…talk about a major f up

No idea who you are talking about.

taxpayers still gave them billions........or what we call Capitalism.

you weren’t talking about the auto bailout?

i am not sure what you are talking about.

Bank, auto, farmers, etc etc etc. If Venezuela could just print, print, print they would be fine also.

We can now but that isn't going to last.

i’m sorry you are gonna have to be more specific…the auto bailouts run by obama and xiden were stupid, and lead to the same result…agreed

what else are you talking about?

Venezuela could have, they had wealth…they have one of the largest oil reserves in the world. So it’s not that that was the issue…it’s the economic system and leftist policies

I have no idea who you are talking about.

you are the one that asked what would have happened had we not given the auto industry all that money.
i answered.


then you made this silly claim about how we are like venezuela…

it’s obvious you have no clue

I stated the only difference. You did nothing to dispute my position.

Your claim we aren't printing money was laughably wrong. You know zero about what is going it, that was nuts. We are printing money like crazy

Of course I never claimed that. It was my complaint.

 

[Rigby5]

Nonsense.
Individual corruption is what harmed Venezuela, and socialism had nothing at all to do with it.
The US also illegally caused a great deal of harm.
Most of the world is socialist, and all the good parts of the US are, like public transportation, education, social security, disability, ADC, food stamps, unemployment compensation, etc.

hahaha that's the problem isn't it? people are corrupt, people aren't angels....socialism just allows for it to flow widely, and always ends with the vast majority poor, and eating dogs.

China, USSR, Venezula, Cuba, Vietnam, every nation that has adopted Socialism.

Why do you think people being unemployment and getting UE benefits, and food stamps is a good part of America? I think it's horrible...we need less of it, and more people working.

Wrong.
China, USSR, Venezuela, Cuba were Stalinist, which is state capitalism.
Nothing socialist about them.
You can't have anything collaborative, cooperative, and communal without also being democratic.
Vietnam was not so Stalinist I believe.

Social welfare programs are always going to be temporary needs.
Without them you will have far more desperation and crime.
So they are always good to have as back up.
Without government, we would have far less work, such as no internet.
No private company could have invested what the internet took.

hahaa State Capitalism is socialism. It’s just another way to brand it that socialist came up with the deflect from the harms of socialism

The Govt owns the means and production. That’s socialism.

Social programs like welfare aren’t socialism…they don’t work the best, but they aren’t socialism

There is no difference between government "owning" the means of production and controlling it.

Yes, redistribution of wealth is a socialist policy. That alone doesn't make a government entirely socialist, but government is raping producers, that directly impacts the means of production and forces them into supporting government social policy

Socialism is NOT about central government.
Central government is fake and owned by the wealthy elite, so is the opposite of socialism.
Socialism is about local control over regulations in order to prevent abuses of individual liberties.
Laws that prevent slavery by force are useless if one can still force slavery by economic extortion.
And socialism is just about preventing economic slavery.
You can just as easily do that with regulations than with government industries.

If you think creating a central powerful government to dictate is socialism, you are totally wrong.
That is just giving the capitalist an even easier means of taking over because then there is only one company instead of many competing ones that neutralize each other a little.

 

[Donald H]

Funny how if this isn't a Republican or a Democrat thing the only issue to you is you want a Communist government propped up.

Why shouldn't any American want to defend Cuba's communist government when that government's revolution is bringing prosperity to Cuba's people?

The only reason it took so many years is because of America's evil sanctions being used to hurt the Cuban people.

And now the US has simply lost the ability to continue with it's cruelty due to China coming to their rescue with much needed support and economic aid.

It's no coincidence that America is fomenting trouble in Cuba at this time. America sees a huge loss in influence in it's own sphere of influence, right next door!

Will China harbour its nuclear armed warships in its new Cuban naval base?

Russia, China, Iran Warn U.S. Must Not Intervene in Cuba

Russia "stressed the inadmissibility of foreign interference" in Cuba, while China "firmly opposes foreign interference in Cuba's internal affairs."

www.newsweek.com

America is now involved in covert interference in Cuba that America is weakly attempting to keep hidden under the carpet.

But can that continue at that level when the loss to America is so large?
This thread could serve to discuss the impending possibilities if most Americans could rise above their 'domestic' politics bullshit sniping.

Will America tutn to the use of military force to hold some influence in Cuba? And if so on what possible pretense could be left that could sell to the rest of the world?

 

[Rigby5]

Nonsense.
Individual corruption is what harmed Venezuela, and socialism had nothing at all to do with it.
The US also illegally caused a great deal of harm.
Most of the world is socialist, and all the good parts of the US are, like public transportation, education, social security, disability, ADC, food stamps, unemployment compensation, etc.

hahaha that's the problem isn't it? people are corrupt, people aren't angels....socialism just allows for it to flow widely, and always ends with the vast majority poor, and eating dogs.

China, USSR, Venezula, Cuba, Vietnam, every nation that has adopted Socialism.

Why do you think people being unemployment and getting UE benefits, and food stamps is a good part of America? I think it's horrible...we need less of it, and more people working.

Wrong.
China, USSR, Venezuela, Cuba were Stalinist, which is state capitalism.
Nothing socialist about them.
You can't have anything collaborative, cooperative, and communal without also being democratic.
Vietnam was not so Stalinist I believe.

Social welfare programs are always going to be temporary needs.
Without them you will have far more desperation and crime.
So they are always good to have as back up.
Without government, we would have far less work, such as no internet.
No private company could have invested what the internet took.

hahaa State Capitalism is socialism. It’s just another way to brand it that socialist came up with the deflect from the harms of socialism

The Govt owns the means and production. That’s socialism.

Social programs like welfare aren’t socialism…they don’t work the best, but they aren’t socialism

There is no difference between government "owning" the means of production and controlling it.

Yes, redistribution of wealth is a socialist policy. That alone doesn't make a government entirely socialist, but government is raping producers, that directly impacts the means of production and forces them into supporting government social policy

The National Socialist Hitler perfected the modern day socialist approach to controlling corporations.

He said, "Why nationalize industry when you can nationalize the people?" Hitler understood that bureaucrats can't even run government efficiently, let alone corporations. The only issue is controlling what those corporations do or do not do. Just let the experts be experts and mind your own business, unless you need them for something or need them to stop something. But the old style socialists like Cuba and North Korea still don't get it.

Hitler was an anti-socialist appointed Chancellor by the wealthy elite, in order to murder all the socialists and communists.
He never controlled any corporation except Junkers, whose CEO refused to support the war.
Military contracts were awarded on a capitalist bidding scheme just like the US now.

When you need to control people you just lie and claim there is some sort of threat, like Saddam having tons of anthrax and weeks away from nuclear weapons.

 

[Sunsettommy]

Yes the US is in part, to blame.

See all this white space here to type in is where you get to splain your point. I was not looking really for a short yes or no.

Continue

Okay no problem, but I just did that in another thread on this topic.

Are you aware the US has heavily sanctioned and stopped all trade with Cuba for 60 years? Now put the puzzle together. The world’s preeminent economic and military nation doing this to Cuba for 60 FUCKING YEARS, will have a negative impact.

No? Yes?

Really you believe there are no other nation on the planet, just Cuba and America?

Here is what YOU fail to realize, from Wikipedia:

Despite the existence of the embargo, Cuba can, and does, conduct international trade with many countries, including many US allies; however, US based companies, and companies that do business with the US, which trade in Cuba do so at the risk of US sanctions.[6] Cuba has been a member of the World Trade Organization since 1995.[7] The European Union is Cuba's largest trading partner, and the United States is the fifth-largest exporter to Cuba (6.6% of Cuba's imports come from the US).[8] Cuba must, however, pay cash for all imports, as credit is not allowed.[9]

bolding mine

Where have YOU been?

 

[surada]

Funny how if this isn't a Republican or a Democrat thing the only issue to you is you want a Communist government propped up.

Why shouldn't any American want to defend Cuba's communist government when that government's revolution is bringing prosperity to Cuba's people?

The only reason it took so many years is because of America's evil sanctions being used to hurt the Cuban people.

And now the US has simply lost the ability to continue with it's cruelty due to China coming to their rescue with much needed support and economic aid.

It's no coincidence that America is fomenting trouble in Cuba at this time. America sees a huge loss in influence in it's own sphere of influence, right next door!

Will China harbour its nuclear armed warships in its new Cuban naval base?

Russia, China, Iran Warn U.S. Must Not Intervene in Cuba

Russia "stressed the inadmissibility of foreign interference" in Cuba, while China "firmly opposes foreign interference in Cuba's internal affairs."

www.newsweek.com

America is now involved in covert interference in Cuba that America is weakly attempting to keep hidden under the carpet.

But can that continue at that level when the loss to America is so large?
This thread could serve to discuss the impending possibilities if most Americans could rise above their 'domestic' politics bullshit sniping.

Will America tutn to the use of military force to hold some influence in Cuba? And if so on what possible pretense could be left that could sell to the rest of the world?

Do you have any proof of that or just idle speculation?

 

[Donald H]

Funny how if this isn't a Republican or a Democrat thing the only issue to you is you want a Communist government propped up.

Why shouldn't any American want to defend Cuba's communist government when that government's revolution is bringing prosperity to Cuba's people?

The only reason it took so many years is because of America's evil sanctions being used to hurt the Cuban people.

And now the US has simply lost the ability to continue with it's cruelty due to China coming to their rescue with much needed support and economic aid.

It's no coincidence that America is fomenting trouble in Cuba at this time. America sees a huge loss in influence in it's own sphere of influence, right next door!

Will China harbour its nuclear armed warships in its new Cuban naval base?

Sadly that isn't a joke, is it?

That which is a joke to you is not likely a joke to me.

Obama was most likely intent on saving Cuba from China's expanding influence.

And now there's just no way of trying to say that Trump completely blew it on foreign policy regarding Cuba.

That is, unless some Americans are going to claim that Trump wasn't making critical decisions?

The rest of the world doesn't give a fk now. What is in Cuba, IS!

 

[Weatherman2020]

Yes the US is in part, to blame.

I agree! One capitalist nation on earth can bring any Commie nation to its knees without trying.

 

[Rigby5]

Wrong.
China, USSR, Venezuela, Cuba were Stalinist, which is state capitalism.
Nothing socialist about them.
You can't have anything collaborative, cooperative, and communal without also being democratic.
Vietnam was not so Stalinist I believe.

Social welfare programs are always going to be temporary needs.
Without them you will have far more desperation and crime.
So they are always good to have as back up.
Without government, we would have far less work, such as no internet.
No private company could have invested what the internet took.

hahaa State Capitalism is socialism. It’s just another way to brand it that socialist came up with the deflect from the harms of socialism

The Govt owns the means and production. That’s socialism.

Social programs like welfare aren’t socialism…they don’t work the best, but they aren’t socialism

There is no difference between government "owning" the means of production and controlling it.

Yes, redistribution of wealth is a socialist policy. That alone doesn't make a government entirely socialist, but government is raping producers, that directly impacts the means of production and forces them into supporting government social policy

The National Socialist Hitler perfected the modern day socialist approach to controlling corporations.

He said, "Why nationalize industry when you can nationalize the people?" Hitler understood that bureaucrats can't even run government efficiently, let alone corporations. The only issue is controlling what those corporations do or do not do. Just let the experts be experts and mind your own business, unless you need them for something or need them to stop something. But the old style socialists like Cuba and North Korea still don't get it.

Hitler gave the Industrialists free labor.

Government doesn't create anything. Nothing is "free," it is confiscated from the companies to start with.

I'd have thought as a Republican for 35 years you'd have known that. Guess not

Oh come on, the government created lots of things, like the internet, computers, TVA, Hoover Damn, the St. Lawrence Seaway, the Panama Canal, NASA, etc.

 

[surada]

Funny how if this isn't a Republican or a Democrat thing the only issue to you is you want a Communist government propped up.

Why shouldn't any American want to defend Cuba's communist government when that government's revolution is bringing prosperity to Cuba's people?

The only reason it took so many years is because of America's evil sanctions being used to hurt the Cuban people.

And now the US has simply lost the ability to continue with it's cruelty due to China coming to their rescue with much needed support and economic aid.

It's no coincidence that America is fomenting trouble in Cuba at this time. America sees a huge loss in influence in it's own sphere of influence, right next door!

Will China harbour its nuclear armed warships in its new Cuban naval base?

Sadly that isn't a joke, is it?

That which is a joke to you is not likely a joke to me.

Obama was most likely intent on saving Cuba from China's expanding influence.

And now there's just no way of trying to say that Trump completely blew it on foreign policy regarding Cuba.

That is, unless some Americans are going to claim that Trump wasn't making critical decisions?

The rest of the world doesn't give a fk now. What is in Cuba, IS!

Partners: China and Cuba | MR Online

Partners: China and Cuba | MR Online

In the 1960s, the main forms of the Chinese assistance offered to Cuba were preferential trade and interest-free loans. From 1961 to 1965, China gave Cuba an interest-free loan of 60 million U.S. dollars.

mronline.org

Feb 22, 2021 · In the 1960s, the main forms of the Chinese assistance offered to Cuba were preferential trade and interest-free loans. From 1961 to 1965, China gave Cuba an interest-free loan of 60 million U.S. dollars. The two sides signed the China-Cuba Economic Cooperation Agreement, Trade and Payment Agreement, and Technology Cooperation Protocol.

 

[Donald H]

America is now involved in covert interference in Cuba that America is weakly attempting to keep hidden under the carpet.

But can that continue at that level when the loss to America is so large?
This thread could serve to discuss the impending possibilities if most Americans could rise above their 'domestic' politics bullshit sniping.

Will America tutn to the use of military force to hold some influence in Cuba? And if so on what possible pretense could be left that could sell to the rest of the world?

Do you have any proof of that or just idle speculation?

No, I haven't any proof on any of it, and that's not relative to something specific I said.

If the Chinese naval base in Cuban is your concern then you can definitely take it as speculation on my part.

If it's America's use of military force that concerns you then you can read what I said as a question.

Or if it's US covert interference in Cuba that's behind the demonstrations then same.