Is this a more comforting way to look at NSA spying capability?

[deltex1]

We give the US military enough firepower to kill everyone in the country. We trust them not to do that. If you don't trust those you MUST place your trust in...where does that leave you? Trust,verify and move on...no need to whine.

 

[NightFox]

Is this a more comforting way to look at NSA spying capability?

Ummmm.. No, as a student of history I have seen what the results of blindly trusting the state to "do the right thing" yields and none of it is beneficial to the citizenry.

"Eternal vigilance is the price we pay for liberty" -- Thomas Jefferson

 

[deltex1]

Is this a more comforting way to look at NSA spying capability?

Ummmm.. No, as a student of history I have seen what the results of blindly trusting the state to "do the right thing" yields and none of it is beneficial to the citizenry.

"Eternal vigilance is the price we pay for liberty" -- Thomas Jefferson

As a student of the seemingly futile practice of human communication I would humbly point out the absence of "blind trust" in my statement. I would reiterate the trust we put in our military not to kill us. Do not our "black world" patriots deserve the same "verified" trust?

 

[NightFox]

Is this a more comforting way to look at NSA spying capability?

Ummmm.. No, as a student of history I have seen what the results of blindly trusting the state to "do the right thing" yields and none of it is beneficial to the citizenry.

"Eternal vigilance is the price we pay for liberty" -- Thomas Jefferson

As a student of the seemingly futile practice of human communication I would humbly point out the absence of "blind trust" in my statement. I would reiterate the trust we put in our military not to kill us. Do not our "black world" patriots deserve the same "verified" trust?

You are correct I inappropriately added blind to trust, I apologize for that.

That being said it begs the question what your beef is with citizens who openly criticize the current practices of the NSA and demand further details as to its methods & objectives and the legality, morality and practicality of them.

 

[Sallow]

Is this a more comforting way to look at NSA spying capability?

Ummmm.. No, as a student of history I have seen what the results of blindly trusting the state to "do the right thing" yields and none of it is beneficial to the citizenry.

"Eternal vigilance is the price we pay for liberty" -- Thomas Jefferson

Absolutely.

 

[g5000]

We give the US military enough firepower to kill everyone in the country. We trust them not to do that. If you don't trust those you MUST place your trust in...where does that leave you? Trust,verify and move on...no need to whine.

Yes, let's all be obedient servants and trust the State. And while we are at it, let's force everyone to carry identity papers to make things easier for the security apparatus to control and track our movements.



You assholes are becoming more and more totalitarian with every passing day.

And now a message from your friends at the Department of Fatherland Security: DHS Determines 13 States Meet REAL ID Standards

On December 20, 2012, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) determined that thirteen states have met the standards of the REAL ID Act of 2005 (“Act&#8221 for driver’s licenses and identification cards and has granted a temporary deferment for all other states and territories.

Secure driver's licenses and identification documents are a vital component of a holistic national security strategy. Law enforcement must be able to rely on government-issued identification documents and know that the bearer of such a document is who he or she claims to be.

Sieg Heil!

 

[Sallow]

Is this a more comforting way to look at NSA spying capability?

Ummmm.. No, as a student of history I have seen what the results of blindly trusting the state to "do the right thing" yields and none of it is beneficial to the citizenry.

"Eternal vigilance is the price we pay for liberty" -- Thomas Jefferson

As a student of the seemingly futile practice of human communication I would humbly point out the absence of "blind trust" in my statement. I would reiterate the trust we put in our military not to kill us. Do not our "black world" patriots deserve the same "verified" trust?

The problem with the NSA is that there is no one to verify them.

There are strict guidelines for the way our military behaves on our soil. Nothing like that exists for the NSA. Quite the opposite. The Patriot Act gives them the power to circumvent the protections set up in the Constitution and FISA.

 

[g5000]

There is something our Founders knew that the modern day suck-ups to the State do not. They knew the functionaries of a totalitarian state have this really bad habit of finding what they are looking for, even if it isn't really there. Hell, just look how the rubes on this forum frequently see and believe things that aren't really there!

That's why our Founders gave us the Third, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, and Eighth amendments.

 

[g5000]

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

 

[deltex1]

Ummmm.. No, as a student of history I have seen what the results of blindly trusting the state to "do the right thing" yields and none of it is beneficial to the citizenry.

"Eternal vigilance is the price we pay for liberty" -- Thomas Jefferson

As a student of the seemingly futile practice of human communication I would humbly point out the absence of "blind trust" in my statement. I would reiterate the trust we put in our military not to kill us. Do not our "black world" patriots deserve the same "verified" trust?

You are correct I inappropriately added blind to trust, I apologize for that.

That being said it begs the question what your beef is with citizens who openly criticize the current practices of the NSA and demand further details as to its methods & objectives and the legality, morality and practicality of them.

The problem is determining where to draw the line in disclosing methods and objectives. We already fight wars with both hands tied behind our back...should we do that with the black world also?

 

[deltex1]

Ummmm.. No, as a student of history I have seen what the results of blindly trusting the state to "do the right thing" yields and none of it is beneficial to the citizenry.

"Eternal vigilance is the price we pay for liberty" -- Thomas Jefferson

As a student of the seemingly futile practice of human communication I would humbly point out the absence of "blind trust" in my statement. I would reiterate the trust we put in our military not to kill us. Do not our "black world" patriots deserve the same "verified" trust?

The problem with the NSA is that there is no one to verify them.

There are strict guidelines for the way our military behaves on our soil. Nothing like that exists for the NSA. Quite the opposite. The Patriot Act gives them the power to circumvent the protections set up in the Constitution and FISA.

Obabble say he be de head verifier...don't you trust him?

 

[NightFox]

As a student of the seemingly futile practice of human communication I would humbly point out the absence of "blind trust" in my statement. I would reiterate the trust we put in our military not to kill us. Do not our "black world" patriots deserve the same "verified" trust?

You are correct I inappropriately added blind to trust, I apologize for that.

That being said it begs the question what your beef is with citizens who openly criticize the current practices of the NSA and demand further details as to its methods & objectives and the legality, morality and practicality of them.

The problem is determining where to draw the line in disclosing methods and objectives.

That's not a "problem" , the constitution draws the line quite nicely and specifies no instance where the federal government can take it upon itself to step over that line no matter what it offers up as a justification.

We already fight wars with both hands tied behind our back...should we do that with the black world also?

So you want the citizenry to just accept the NSA waging war on our rights? I thought the objective of government was to protect the lives, liberty and property from those that would seek to violate them NOT the federal government becoming the perpetrator of violations of the liberty of the citizenry.

If someone offered me a choice between protecting me from "terrorists" and protecting me from the current incarnation of the federal government, I'd choose protection from the federal government since they have proven FAR more dangerous to the lives, liberty and property of the people.

 

[mudwhistle]

Is this a more comforting way to look at NSA spying capability?

Ummmm.. No, as a student of history I have seen what the results of blindly trusting the state to "do the right thing" yields and none of it is beneficial to the citizenry.

"Eternal vigilance is the price we pay for liberty" -- Thomas Jefferson

As a student of the seemingly futile practice of human communication I would humbly point out the absence of "blind trust" in my statement. I would reiterate the trust we put in our military not to kill us. Do not our "black world" patriots deserve the same "verified" trust?

I see no reason to trust the NSA under Obama.

 

[mudwhistle]

This administration was given the opportunity to earn our trust and proved they don't deserve it.

 

[deltex1]

At the risk of beating a dead horse (and acknowledging that I think our current government is befuddled) I am just asking why we have so much faith in the military to resist an unlawful order from the executive, but have no faith in the black world from doing the same.. They both take the same oath to protect and defend. Am I wrong in believing that what has been revealed ( to those not having my sources) is that the NSA has developed methods that if wrongly used could put private citizens at risk, but those same methods protect us from evil...and there has been no case of advertant abuse.

 

[shintao]

Ummmm.. No, as a student of history I have seen what the results of blindly trusting the state to "do the right thing" yields and none of it is beneficial to the citizenry.

"Eternal vigilance is the price we pay for liberty" -- Thomas Jefferson

As a student of the seemingly futile practice of human communication I would humbly point out the absence of "blind trust" in my statement. I would reiterate the trust we put in our military not to kill us. Do not our "black world" patriots deserve the same "verified" trust?

You are correct I inappropriately added blind to trust, I apologize for that.

That being said it begs the question what your beef is with citizens who openly criticize the current practices of the NSA and demand further details as to its methods & objectives and the legality, morality and practicality of them.

Maybe because it forces government to surrender information needed by your enemies. They call that treason. Is that what you advocate in the terrorist wars?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I am just asking why we have so much faith in the military to resist an unlawful order from the executive, but have no faith in the black world from doing the same..

What is this 'we' shit you keep after? I, for one, have no faith that the military will resist an unlawful order from the executive. Simply put, that's easily compartmentalized.

 

[NightFox]

As a student of the seemingly futile practice of human communication I would humbly point out the absence of "blind trust" in my statement. I would reiterate the trust we put in our military not to kill us. Do not our "black world" patriots deserve the same "verified" trust?

You are correct I inappropriately added blind to trust, I apologize for that.

That being said it begs the question what your beef is with citizens who openly criticize the current practices of the NSA and demand further details as to its methods & objectives and the legality, morality and practicality of them.

Maybe because it forces government to surrender information needed by your enemies. They call that treason. Is that what you advocate in the terrorist wars?

You're confused, government is answerable to it's citizenry (not the other way around) and cannot justify it's own criminality based on the dictates of external "enemies", thus the state acting in a criminal manner is treasonous no matter what its motivations. The citizenry on the other hand has the right to expect that the state will act within the boundaries of the authority that they have granted to it and no farther under all circumstances and when such boundaries are violated by the state the citizenry is justified in holding the state to account.

Your assertion on the other hand presupposes that the state has unlimited authority without accountability as long as it classifies it's criminality under the heading "national security".

 

[deltex1]

I am just asking why we have so much faith in the military to resist an unlawful order from the executive, but have no faith in the black world from doing the same..

What is this 'we' shit you keep after? I, for one, have no faith that the military will resist an unlawful order from the executive. Simply put, that's easily compartmentalized.

I was using the "royal" we...so if ou have no faith in the military...the most trusted of national entities, then you can have no faith in anything. I hope you have guns.

 

[deltex1]

"Your assertion on the other hand presupposes that the state has unlimited authority without accountability as long as it classifies it's criminality under the heading "national security"."



Now we're talking Benghazi.