Is This For Real?

[Campbell]

Mark 16:

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

OK.............Let's see whether you believe or not!

 

[emilynghiem]

The serpents is symbolic, not literally. People are using spiritual healing to cast out demons that are making others very sick. Scott Peck wrote a book, testing out this process, and finding it to follow observable stages and steps, quantifiable by science, and recommended serious research into this as a valid process of therapy.

freespiritualhealing

As for drinking anything deadly, I would not test God on that.
Drinking tap water is risky enough. Let's not push our luck!

 

[Campbell]

The serpents is symbolic, not literally. People are using spiritual healing to cast out demons that are making others very sick. Scott Peck wrote a book, testing out this process, and finding it to follow observable stages and steps, quantifiable by science, and recommended serious research into this as a valid process of therapy.

freespiritualhealing

As for drinking anything deadly, I would not test God on that.
Drinking tap water is risky enough. Let's not push our luck!

That is simply not even close to what the new testament states.......Boldly!

Why am I not surprised. After billions of Hell Fire And Damnation sermons were preached and many a soul saved(hahahaha) now the church maintains that hell represents a separation from god. Just how stupid do you folks think the youth of today are? Like Thomas Jefferson boldly stated in a letter to John Adams:

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding."

 

[deltex1]

The serpents is symbolic, not literally. People are using spiritual healing to cast out demons that are making others very sick. Scott Peck wrote a book, testing out this process, and finding it to follow observable stages and steps, quantifiable by science, and recommended serious research into this as a valid process of therapy.

freespiritualhealing

As for drinking anything deadly, I would not test God on that.
Drinking tap water is risky enough. Let's not push our luck!

That is simply not even close to what the new testament states.......Boldly!

Why am I not surprised. After billions of Hell Fire And Damnation sermons were preached and many a soul saved(hahahaha) now the church maintains that hell represents a separation from god. Just how stupid do you folks think the youth of today are? Like Thomas Jefferson boldly stated in a letter to John Adams:

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding."

That day has not come...except for morons like you who stand in the shit....sans scaffolding.

 

[emilynghiem]

The serpents is symbolic, not literally. People are using spiritual healing to cast out demons that are making others very sick. Scott Peck wrote a book, testing out this process, and finding it to follow observable stages and steps, quantifiable by science, and recommended serious research into this as a valid process of therapy.

freespiritualhealing

As for drinking anything deadly, I would not test God on that.
Drinking tap water is risky enough. Let's not push our luck!

That is simply not even close to what the new testament states.......Boldly!

Why am I not surprised. After billions of Hell Fire And Damnation sermons were preached and many a soul saved(hahahaha) now the church maintains that hell represents a separation from god. Just how stupid do you folks think the youth of today are? Like Thomas Jefferson boldly stated in a letter to John Adams:

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding."

Dear Campbell
The way I make sense of these things:
(1) hell means suffering caused by unforgiveness and ill will
war is hell
Drug addiction and mental illness is hell
losing a child to murder and having to go through the crazy making criminal justice system is hell

hell happens all the time
We just overcome it
And yes, if it doesn't kill us or drive us insane (look at our PTSD vets and suicide rates),
it certainly makes us stronger. but it causes INTOLERABLE suffering in the meantime, ie hell

(2) Jesus is Justice
a double edged sword
if you live by retributive justice, you invoke the side of antichrist, that's what you get in return
people judge and attack you if you do so to others, that's one side of justice

If we live by restorative justice, with mercy forgiveness correction healing and restitution,
then we are granted the same opportunity in return

Last I checked, even secular humanists, atheists and agnostics
believe we should have justice for all humanity.

So that's a pretty "universal" ideal don't you think?
And Jesus, symbolic or historical, literal or figurative,
does serve as a symbol of Justice coming to save all humanity,
to unite us as one, where we all live in spiritual harmony and heavenly peace.

Makes sense to me that is what these things ultimately mean.
Then you can get as "religious" or as "secular" as you want to go with it.

The process of establishing "peace and justice for all humanity"
is still universal and unique to each person's path in life at the same time.
Whatever we believe, as Jew or Gentile, believer or nontheist,
we all go through conflicts and issues, grief and recovery, to reach a state of maturity and peace.

So that is what the Bible symbolizes, with its hell and high water,
ups and downs, tragedies of war and genocide, and then promises of fulfillment and peace.
It's all there. it's the story of humanity's struggle, our history and future, told in symbols.

 

[Campbell]

The serpents is symbolic, not literally. People are using spiritual healing to cast out demons that are making others very sick. Scott Peck wrote a book, testing out this process, and finding it to follow observable stages and steps, quantifiable by science, and recommended serious research into this as a valid process of therapy.

freespiritualhealing

As for drinking anything deadly, I would not test God on that.
Drinking tap water is risky enough. Let's not push our luck!

That is simply not even close to what the new testament states.......Boldly!

Why am I not surprised. After billions of Hell Fire And Damnation sermons were preached and many a soul saved(hahahaha) now the church maintains that hell represents a separation from god. Just how stupid do you folks think the youth of today are? Like Thomas Jefferson boldly stated in a letter to John Adams:

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding."

Dear Campbell
The way I make sense of these things:
(1) hell means suffering caused by unforgiveness and ill will
war is hell
Drug addiction and mental illness is hell
losing a child to murder and having to go through the crazy making criminal justice system is hell

hell happens all the time
We just overcome it
And yes, if it doesn't kill us or drive us insane (look at our PTSD vets and suicide rates),
it certainly makes us stronger. but it causes INTOLERABLE suffering in the meantime, ie hell

(2) Jesus is Justice
a double edged sword
if you live by retributive justice, you invoke the side of antichrist, that's what you get in return
people judge and attack you if you do so to others, that's one side of justice

If we live by restorative justice, with mercy forgiveness correction healing and restitution,
then we are granted the same opportunity in return

Last I checked, even secular humanists, atheists and agnostics
believe we should have justice for all humanity.

So that's a pretty "universal" ideal don't you think?
And Jesus, symbolic or historical, literal or figurative,
does serve as a symbol of Justice coming to save all humanity,
to unite us as one, where we all live in spiritual harmony and heavenly peace.

Makes sense to me that is what these things ultimately mean.
Then you can get as "religious" or as "secular" as you want to go with it.

The process of establishing "peace and justice for all humanity"
is still universal and unique to each person's path in life at the same time.
Whatever we believe, as Jew or Gentile, believer or nontheist,
we all go through conflicts and issues, grief and recovery, to reach a state of maturity and peace.

So that is what the Bible symbolizes, with its hell and high water,
ups and downs, tragedies of war and genocide, and then promises of fulfillment and peace.
It's all there. it's the story of humanity's struggle, our history and future, told in symbols.

Well...that's fine for you but that's not what it says.....over and over and over etc.

Revelation 21:
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."


Matthew 25
[URL='http://www.biblestudytools.com/matthew/25-46.html']46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."[/URL]
[URL='http://www.biblestudytools.com/revelation/21-8.html'][URL='http://www.biblestudytools.com/revelation/21-8.html']
[URL='http://www.biblestudytools.com/revelation/21-8.html'][URL='http://www.biblestudytools.com/revelation/21-8.html'][URL='http://www.biblestudytools.com/revelation/21-8.html'][URL='http://www.biblestudytools.com/revelation/21-8.html'][URL='http://www.biblestudytools.com/revelation/21-8.html'][URL='http://www.biblestudytools.com/revelation/21-8.html'][URL='http://www.biblestudytools.com/revelation/21-8.html'][URL='http://www.biblestudytools.com/revelation/21-8.html'][URL='http://www.biblestudytools.com/revelation/21-8.html'][URL='http://www.biblestudytools.com/matthew/25-46.html'][URL='https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-10-28/']Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.[/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]
[URL='http://www.biblestudytools.com/revelation/21-8.html'][URL='http://www.biblestudytools.com/revelation/21-8.html'][URL='http://www.biblestudytools.com/revelation/21-8.html'][URL='http://www.biblestudytools.com/revelation/21-8.html'][URL='http://www.biblestudytools.com/revelation/21-8.html'][URL='http://www.biblestudytools.com/revelation/21-8.html'][URL='http://www.biblestudytools.com/revelation/21-8.html'][URL='http://www.biblestudytools.com/revelation/21-8.html'][URL='http://www.biblestudytools.com/revelation/21-8.html'][URL='http://www.biblestudytools.com/matthew/25-46.html'][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]

 

[emilynghiem]

The serpents is symbolic, not literally. People are using spiritual healing to cast out demons that are making others very sick. Scott Peck wrote a book, testing out this process, and finding it to follow observable stages and steps, quantifiable by science, and recommended serious research into this as a valid process of therapy.

freespiritualhealing

As for drinking anything deadly, I would not test God on that.
Drinking tap water is risky enough. Let's not push our luck!

That is simply not even close to what the new testament states.......Boldly!

Why am I not surprised. After billions of Hell Fire And Damnation sermons were preached and many a soul saved(hahahaha) now the church maintains that hell represents a separation from god. Just how stupid do you folks think the youth of today are? Like Thomas Jefferson boldly stated in a letter to John Adams:

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding."

Dear Campbell
The way I make sense of these things:
(1) hell means suffering caused by unforgiveness and ill will
war is hell
Drug addiction and mental illness is hell
losing a child to murder and having to go through the crazy making criminal justice system is hell

hell happens all the time
We just overcome it
And yes, if it doesn't kill us or drive us insane (look at our PTSD vets and suicide rates),
it certainly makes us stronger. but it causes INTOLERABLE suffering in the meantime, ie hell

(2) Jesus is Justice
a double edged sword
if you live by retributive justice, you invoke the side of antichrist, that's what you get in return
people judge and attack you if you do so to others, that's one side of justice

If we live by restorative justice, with mercy forgiveness correction healing and restitution,
then we are granted the same opportunity in return

Last I checked, even secular humanists, atheists and agnostics
believe we should have justice for all humanity.

So that's a pretty "universal" ideal don't you think?
And Jesus, symbolic or historical, literal or figurative,
does serve as a symbol of Justice coming to save all humanity,
to unite us as one, where we all live in spiritual harmony and heavenly peace.

Makes sense to me that is what these things ultimately mean.
Then you can get as "religious" or as "secular" as you want to go with it.

The process of establishing "peace and justice for all humanity"
is still universal and unique to each person's path in life at the same time.
Whatever we believe, as Jew or Gentile, believer or nontheist,
we all go through conflicts and issues, grief and recovery, to reach a state of maturity and peace.

So that is what the Bible symbolizes, with its hell and high water,
ups and downs, tragedies of war and genocide, and then promises of fulfillment and peace.
It's all there. it's the story of humanity's struggle, our history and future, told in symbols.

Well...that's fine for you but that's not what it says.....over and over and over etc.

Revelation 21:
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."


Matthew 25
46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
http://www.biblestudytools.com/revelation/21-8.html
Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The second death is the second stage of cleansing.
And yes it feels like hell.

All the evil CAN be killed and burned away.
And still leave the spirit that is created pure to remain.

You sound like the people who can't separate the demonic entities
from the people infected like a host. When you kill the virus that's killing the
person, the point is to save the person, not kill them along with the sickness.

Campbell given that God's will is defined as SUPREME
the Bible ensures that it is NOT God's wish for ANY to perish
but for ALL to come to repentance (2 Peter 8-9)

…8But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance

So if God always wins, then all shall be saved, and NONE shall die.

All the hell and burning process can be used to PURIFY to kill off the evil
and save the pure spirit that was created in God's image and given new eternal life in Christ.

How could a God defined as perfect ordain anything less
than a perfect process of perfectly cleansing out all evil that causes hell
and leaving only that which is meant to sustain eternally in heaven.

 

[Steven_R]

I wonder how many people in pagan societies like the Greeks and Romans had would be fundamentalists today, how many people just paid lip service to the Gods out of the societal demands, how many people who were normal pagans and just thought the fundamentalist types were just nuts,

Me, I'd only be in it for the orgies and would be a happy member of the cult of Bacchus.

 

[AmericanFirst1]

The serpents is symbolic, not literally. People are using spiritual healing to cast out demons that are making others very sick. Scott Peck wrote a book, testing out this process, and finding it to follow observable stages and steps, quantifiable by science, and recommended serious research into this as a valid process of therapy.

freespiritualhealing

As for drinking anything deadly, I would not test God on that.
Drinking tap water is risky enough. Let's not push our luck!

That is simply not even close to what the new testament states.......Boldly!

Why am I not surprised. After billions of Hell Fire And Damnation sermons were preached and many a soul saved(hahahaha) now the church maintains that hell represents a separation from god. Just how stupid do you folks think the youth of today are? Like Thomas Jefferson boldly stated in a letter to John Adams:

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding."

Dear Campbell
The way I make sense of these things:
(1) hell means suffering caused by unforgiveness and ill will
war is hell
Drug addiction and mental illness is hell
losing a child to murder and having to go through the crazy making criminal justice system is hell

hell happens all the time
We just overcome it
And yes, if it doesn't kill us or drive us insane (look at our PTSD vets and suicide rates),
it certainly makes us stronger. but it causes INTOLERABLE suffering in the meantime, ie hell

(2) Jesus is Justice
a double edged sword
if you live by retributive justice, you invoke the side of antichrist, that's what you get in return
people judge and attack you if you do so to others, that's one side of justice

If we live by restorative justice, with mercy forgiveness correction healing and restitution,
then we are granted the same opportunity in return

Last I checked, even secular humanists, atheists and agnostics
believe we should have justice for all humanity.

So that's a pretty "universal" ideal don't you think?
And Jesus, symbolic or historical, literal or figurative,
does serve as a symbol of Justice coming to save all humanity,
to unite us as one, where we all live in spiritual harmony and heavenly peace.

Makes sense to me that is what these things ultimately mean.
Then you can get as "religious" or as "secular" as you want to go with it.

The process of establishing "peace and justice for all humanity"
is still universal and unique to each person's path in life at the same time.
Whatever we believe, as Jew or Gentile, believer or nontheist,
we all go through conflicts and issues, grief and recovery, to reach a state of maturity and peace.

So that is what the Bible symbolizes, with its hell and high water,
ups and downs, tragedies of war and genocide, and then promises of fulfillment and peace.
It's all there. it's the story of humanity's struggle, our history and future, told in symbols.

Well...that's fine for you but that's not what it says.....over and over and over etc.

Revelation 21:
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."


Matthew 25
46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The second death is the second stage of cleansing.
And yes it feels like hell.

All the evil CAN be killed and burned away.
And still leave the spirit that is created pure to remain.

You sound like the people who can't separate the demonic entities
from the people infected like a host. When you kill the virus that's killing the
person, the point is to save the person, not kill them along with the sickness.

Campbell given that God's will is defined as SUPREME
the Bible ensures that it is NOT God's wish for ANY to perish
but for ALL to come to repentance (2 Peter 8-9)

…8But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance

So if God always wins, then all shall be saved, and NONE shall die.

All the hell and burning process can be used to PURIFY to kill off the evil
and save the pure spirit that was created in God's image and given new eternal life in Christ.

How could a God defined as perfect ordain anything less
than a perfect process of perfectly cleansing out all evil that causes hell
and leaving only that which is meant to sustain eternally in heaven.

So you believe everyone goes to heaven? That is NOT what the Bible says. The Bible clearly talks about hell as eternal punishment.

 

[emilynghiem]

The serpents is symbolic, not literally. People are using spiritual healing to cast out demons that are making others very sick. Scott Peck wrote a book, testing out this process, and finding it to follow observable stages and steps, quantifiable by science, and recommended serious research into this as a valid process of therapy.

freespiritualhealing

As for drinking anything deadly, I would not test God on that.
Drinking tap water is risky enough. Let's not push our luck!

That is simply not even close to what the new testament states.......Boldly!

Why am I not surprised. After billions of Hell Fire And Damnation sermons were preached and many a soul saved(hahahaha) now the church maintains that hell represents a separation from god. Just how stupid do you folks think the youth of today are? Like Thomas Jefferson boldly stated in a letter to John Adams:

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding."

Dear Campbell
The way I make sense of these things:
(1) hell means suffering caused by unforgiveness and ill will
war is hell
Drug addiction and mental illness is hell
losing a child to murder and having to go through the crazy making criminal justice system is hell

hell happens all the time
We just overcome it
And yes, if it doesn't kill us or drive us insane (look at our PTSD vets and suicide rates),
it certainly makes us stronger. but it causes INTOLERABLE suffering in the meantime, ie hell

(2) Jesus is Justice
a double edged sword
if you live by retributive justice, you invoke the side of antichrist, that's what you get in return
people judge and attack you if you do so to others, that's one side of justice

If we live by restorative justice, with mercy forgiveness correction healing and restitution,
then we are granted the same opportunity in return

Last I checked, even secular humanists, atheists and agnostics
believe we should have justice for all humanity.

So that's a pretty "universal" ideal don't you think?
And Jesus, symbolic or historical, literal or figurative,
does serve as a symbol of Justice coming to save all humanity,
to unite us as one, where we all live in spiritual harmony and heavenly peace.

Makes sense to me that is what these things ultimately mean.
Then you can get as "religious" or as "secular" as you want to go with it.

The process of establishing "peace and justice for all humanity"
is still universal and unique to each person's path in life at the same time.
Whatever we believe, as Jew or Gentile, believer or nontheist,
we all go through conflicts and issues, grief and recovery, to reach a state of maturity and peace.

So that is what the Bible symbolizes, with its hell and high water,
ups and downs, tragedies of war and genocide, and then promises of fulfillment and peace.
It's all there. it's the story of humanity's struggle, our history and future, told in symbols.

Well...that's fine for you but that's not what it says.....over and over and over etc.

Revelation 21:
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."


Matthew 25
46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The second death is the second stage of cleansing.
And yes it feels like hell.

All the evil CAN be killed and burned away.
And still leave the spirit that is created pure to remain.

You sound like the people who can't separate the demonic entities
from the people infected like a host. When you kill the virus that's killing the
person, the point is to save the person, not kill them along with the sickness.

Campbell given that God's will is defined as SUPREME
the Bible ensures that it is NOT God's wish for ANY to perish
but for ALL to come to repentance (2 Peter 8-9)

…8But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance

So if God always wins, then all shall be saved, and NONE shall die.

All the hell and burning process can be used to PURIFY to kill off the evil
and save the pure spirit that was created in God's image and given new eternal life in Christ.

How could a God defined as perfect ordain anything less
than a perfect process of perfectly cleansing out all evil that causes hell
and leaving only that which is meant to sustain eternally in heaven.

So you believe everyone goes to heaven? That is NOT what the Bible says. The Bible clearly talks about hell as eternal punishment.

The evils are BURNED AWAY in the lake of fire.
You are putting several ideas together to call it "eternal punishment" for souls.

The evil is separate from the soul.

Do you agree that man is made in the image of God?
And that since Jesus can atone for the sins where they don't hold us back,
then clearly the sins and evil can be SEPARATED from the people's souls and spirit.

So yes, the evil is BURNED AWAY FOREVER.
But that doesn't means souls are punished forever.

Where most people take issue with this, we don't all agree if this
cleansing all takes place in the here and now and earthly life,
or if all the Judgment Day and final process takes place in heaven after the life on earth is passed.

We may not agree on the timeline, but clearly it is within God's will
to finish the judgment, cleansing and burning away process either in this lifetime or beyond
where all souls can still be purified and the evil and sins are what get cut away and burned up.
Forever.

 

[AmericanFirst1]

That is simply not even close to what the new testament states.......Boldly!

Why am I not surprised. After billions of Hell Fire And Damnation sermons were preached and many a soul saved(hahahaha) now the church maintains that hell represents a separation from god. Just how stupid do you folks think the youth of today are? Like Thomas Jefferson boldly stated in a letter to John Adams:

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding."

Dear Campbell
The way I make sense of these things:
(1) hell means suffering caused by unforgiveness and ill will
war is hell
Drug addiction and mental illness is hell
losing a child to murder and having to go through the crazy making criminal justice system is hell

hell happens all the time
We just overcome it
And yes, if it doesn't kill us or drive us insane (look at our PTSD vets and suicide rates),
it certainly makes us stronger. but it causes INTOLERABLE suffering in the meantime, ie hell

(2) Jesus is Justice
a double edged sword
if you live by retributive justice, you invoke the side of antichrist, that's what you get in return
people judge and attack you if you do so to others, that's one side of justice

If we live by restorative justice, with mercy forgiveness correction healing and restitution,
then we are granted the same opportunity in return

Last I checked, even secular humanists, atheists and agnostics
believe we should have justice for all humanity.

So that's a pretty "universal" ideal don't you think?
And Jesus, symbolic or historical, literal or figurative,
does serve as a symbol of Justice coming to save all humanity,
to unite us as one, where we all live in spiritual harmony and heavenly peace.

Makes sense to me that is what these things ultimately mean.
Then you can get as "religious" or as "secular" as you want to go with it.

The process of establishing "peace and justice for all humanity"
is still universal and unique to each person's path in life at the same time.
Whatever we believe, as Jew or Gentile, believer or nontheist,
we all go through conflicts and issues, grief and recovery, to reach a state of maturity and peace.

So that is what the Bible symbolizes, with its hell and high water,
ups and downs, tragedies of war and genocide, and then promises of fulfillment and peace.
It's all there. it's the story of humanity's struggle, our history and future, told in symbols.

Well...that's fine for you but that's not what it says.....over and over and over etc.

Revelation 21:
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."


Matthew 25
46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The second death is the second stage of cleansing.
And yes it feels like hell.

All the evil CAN be killed and burned away.
And still leave the spirit that is created pure to remain.

You sound like the people who can't separate the demonic entities
from the people infected like a host. When you kill the virus that's killing the
person, the point is to save the person, not kill them along with the sickness.

Campbell given that God's will is defined as SUPREME
the Bible ensures that it is NOT God's wish for ANY to perish
but for ALL to come to repentance (2 Peter 8-9)

…8But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance

So if God always wins, then all shall be saved, and NONE shall die.

All the hell and burning process can be used to PURIFY to kill off the evil
and save the pure spirit that was created in God's image and given new eternal life in Christ.

How could a God defined as perfect ordain anything less
than a perfect process of perfectly cleansing out all evil that causes hell
and leaving only that which is meant to sustain eternally in heaven.

So you believe everyone goes to heaven? That is NOT what the Bible says. The Bible clearly talks about hell as eternal punishment.

The evils are BURNED AWAY in the lake of fire.
You are putting several ideas together to call it "eternal punishment" for souls.

The evil is separate from the soul.

Do you agree that man is made in the image of God?
And that since Jesus can atone for the sins where they don't hold us back,
then clearly the sins and evil can be SEPARATED from the people's souls and spirit.

So yes, the evil is BURNED AWAY FOREVER.
But that doesn't means souls are punished forever.

Where most people take issue with this, we don't all agree if this
cleansing all takes place in the here and now and earthly life,
or if all the Judgment Day and final process takes place in heaven after the life on earth is passed.

We may not agree on the timeline, but clearly it is within God's will
to finish the judgment, cleansing and burning away process either in this lifetime or beyond
where all souls can still be purified and the evil and sins are what get cut away and burned up.
Forever.

False teaching. You are wrong, the Bible plainly says you and your soul are punished forever.

 

[Campbell]

I wonder how many people in pagan societies like the Greeks and Romans had would be fundamentalists today, how many people just paid lip service to the Gods out of the societal demands, how many people who were normal pagans and just thought the fundamentalist types were just nuts,

Me, I'd only be in it for the orgies and would be a happy member of the cult of Bacchus.

It's the childhood brainwashing and human desperation. Without it all of that utter nonsense would be as dead as cannibalism is today. Anybody who is so arrogant and egotistical that they believe they have somehow been granted eternal bliss in a heavenly community behind golden gates while billions who simply believed something else will do an eternal dance in a roast pot has their heads so far up their asses that they're beyond any kind of help. In a way they are to be pitied. I don't believe in ghosts, holy or otherwise and I for damn sure don't believe in a heaven for those who believe some fairy tale.

 

[AmericanFirst1]

I wonder how many people in pagan societies like the Greeks and Romans had would be fundamentalists today, how many people just paid lip service to the Gods out of the societal demands, how many people who were normal pagans and just thought the fundamentalist types were just nuts,

Me, I'd only be in it for the orgies and would be a happy member of the cult of Bacchus.

It's the childhood brainwashing. Without it all of that utter nonsense would be as dead as cannibalism is today. Anybody who is so arrogant and egotistical that they believe they have somehow been granted eternal bliss in a heavenly community behind golden gates while billions who simply believed something else will do an eternal dance in a roast pot has their heads so far up their asses that they're beyond any kind of help. In a way they are to be pitied. I don't believe in ghosts, holy or otherwise and I for damn sure don't believe in a heaven for those who believe some fairy tale.

I see you are still as ignorant as always. Good luck.

 

[Campbell]

I wonder how many people in pagan societies like the Greeks and Romans had would be fundamentalists today, how many people just paid lip service to the Gods out of the societal demands, how many people who were normal pagans and just thought the fundamentalist types were just nuts,

Me, I'd only be in it for the orgies and would be a happy member of the cult of Bacchus.

It's the childhood brainwashing. Without it all of that utter nonsense would be as dead as cannibalism is today. Anybody who is so arrogant and egotistical that they believe they have somehow been granted eternal bliss in a heavenly community behind golden gates while billions who simply believed something else will do an eternal dance in a roast pot has their heads so far up their asses that they're beyond any kind of help. In a way they are to be pitied. I don't believe in ghosts, holy or otherwise and I for damn sure don't believe in a heaven for those who believe some fairy tale.

I see you are still as ignorant as always. Good luck.

And I see that you are one of the assholes who believe I'll burn in hell. Go somewhere and screw yourself.

 

[AmericanFirst1]

I wonder how many people in pagan societies like the Greeks and Romans had would be fundamentalists today, how many people just paid lip service to the Gods out of the societal demands, how many people who were normal pagans and just thought the fundamentalist types were just nuts,

Me, I'd only be in it for the orgies and would be a happy member of the cult of Bacchus.

It's the childhood brainwashing. Without it all of that utter nonsense would be as dead as cannibalism is today. Anybody who is so arrogant and egotistical that they believe they have somehow been granted eternal bliss in a heavenly community behind golden gates while billions who simply believed something else will do an eternal dance in a roast pot has their heads so far up their asses that they're beyond any kind of help. In a way they are to be pitied. I don't believe in ghosts, holy or otherwise and I for damn sure don't believe in a heaven for those who believe some fairy tale.

I see you are still as ignorant as always. Good luck.

And I see that you are one of the assholes who believe I'll burn in hell. Go somewhere and screw yourself.

Stay warm crispy.

 

[Campbell]

I wonder how many people in pagan societies like the Greeks and Romans had would be fundamentalists today, how many people just paid lip service to the Gods out of the societal demands, how many people who were normal pagans and just thought the fundamentalist types were just nuts,

Me, I'd only be in it for the orgies and would be a happy member of the cult of Bacchus.

It's the childhood brainwashing. Without it all of that utter nonsense would be as dead as cannibalism is today. Anybody who is so arrogant and egotistical that they believe they have somehow been granted eternal bliss in a heavenly community behind golden gates while billions who simply believed something else will do an eternal dance in a roast pot has their heads so far up their asses that they're beyond any kind of help. In a way they are to be pitied. I don't believe in ghosts, holy or otherwise and I for damn sure don't believe in a heaven for those who believe some fairy tale.

I see you are still as ignorant as always. Good luck.

And I see that you are one of the assholes who believe I'll burn in hell. Go somewhere and screw yourself.

Stay warm crispy.

Eat Shit And Die!

 

[hobelim]

It's the childhood brainwashing and human desperation. Without it all of that utter nonsense would be as dead as cannibalism is today. Anybody who is so arrogant and egotistical that they believe they have somehow been granted eternal bliss in a heavenly community behind golden gates while billions who simply believed something else will do an eternal dance in a roast pot has their heads so far up their asses that they're beyond any kind of help. In a way they are to be pitied. I don't believe in ghosts, holy or otherwise and I for damn sure don't believe in a heaven for those who believe some fairy tale.

No hell below us, above us only sky?

Of course you are right, but you are also wrong.

Do you not think that your certainty that the stories in scripture are basically fairy tales that cannot be literally true is a position above that of superstitious and irrational people who 'just believe' the fairy tales without any comprehension of what they are actually about and even though reality, like a fire that will never go out, contradicts those stories and has contradicted those stories every day and night for thousands of years ?

Do you think its impossible that there could be an even higher ground than where you stand, a place of peace and understanding for those who find and act on the instruction in those fairy tales not directly connected to the literal meaning of the words used that conforms to and is confirmed by reality?? lessons from the past that are relevant and essential to a fruitful and fulfilled life that is above the grasp of the superstitious and derisive ? Teaching that is missed as completely by those who reject the stories entirely as by those who profess to believe every word?

Many people like yourself dismiss scripture as bronze age fairy tales for children. If that is the truth, and given the content I can find no reason to disagree, intelligent people living today with the benefit of a sound education should have no problem learning what bronze age people expected bronze age children to comprehend.

You could at least try.....

 

[AmericanFirst1]

I wonder how many people in pagan societies like the Greeks and Romans had would be fundamentalists today, how many people just paid lip service to the Gods out of the societal demands, how many people who were normal pagans and just thought the fundamentalist types were just nuts,

Me, I'd only be in it for the orgies and would be a happy member of the cult of Bacchus.

It's the childhood brainwashing. Without it all of that utter nonsense would be as dead as cannibalism is today. Anybody who is so arrogant and egotistical that they believe they have somehow been granted eternal bliss in a heavenly community behind golden gates while billions who simply believed something else will do an eternal dance in a roast pot has their heads so far up their asses that they're beyond any kind of help. In a way they are to be pitied. I don't believe in ghosts, holy or otherwise and I for damn sure don't believe in a heaven for those who believe some fairy tale.

I see you are still as ignorant as always. Good luck.

And I see that you are one of the assholes who believe I'll burn in hell. Go somewhere and screw yourself.

Stay warm crispy.

Eat Shit And Die!

At least I won't be toasty. Good luck crispy.

 

[BluePhantom]

Mark 16:

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

OK.............Let's see whether you believe or not!

Campbell, the verses you cite were not originally in the Gospel of Mark. The earliest copies of Mark end at 16:8 saying "8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid." and that's it...it just ends. No one knows when or by whom verses 9-20 were added. Presumably, someone thought Mark needed a happier or fuller ending and added those verses at a later time. The earliest they are referred to is the late 2nd Century by a Church father (whose name escapes my mind at the moment).

Take them as you will. I, personally, do not consider them scripture and I really wish all those Christian snake-handlers would do some historical research on those verses before tempting fate/God. Probably better that they know those verses are not original BEFORE they pick up the snake instead of in the ambulance afterwards.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Signs were for a specific time Campbell. Which is why preachers today aren't curing blindness, replacing limbs, raising the dead. Paul survived a bite from a deadly snake. You probably would not.