Is Your God Limited to The God of Abraham?

[Dot Com]

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If believing in, for lack of a better term, "God" is necessary for you to maintain your sanity, why did you pick The God of Abraham?

Why pin your hopes, faith and destiny on a God who was first named the family stories of visions, risk and blessings told by a successful Arab patriarch nomad who lived in The Middle East more than 6,000 years ago?

What's the modern attraction? ​

I think that it's long past Time for Monkeys to bury The God of Abraham, as defined in The Torah, The New Testament and/or The Qur'an with Abraham and celebrate The God of (insert your name here).

The future is that way.

agree.

I think most people are just indoctrinated to it by their parents. Much like an arranged marriage.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Well with the exception of the Church of Satan and stuff like that (which I frankly laugh at). But that is because they take a specific anti-God stance.

islam specifically says to kill all non-believers. Surely you can not confuse their god with any other religion's god.

Islam worships The God of Abraham as defined in The Torah and The Qur'an.
Christianity worships The God of Abraham as defined in The Torah and The New Testament.

Same God / different pathways to His presence.

Step one in any religious discussion is to name the god under discussion.

On a side note... How effective is a Deity who can't even keep the kind of 'confusion' we see today between Jews, Christians and Muslims about how to seek Him from causing such destruction?

 

[AVG-JOE]

The divine archetype of YHWH is one that I choose to understand as ultimate Creation and ultimate Destruction. Ultimate "Good" and ultimate "Evil". Ultimate Balance.

Ultimate badassery.

YHWH is completely worthy of my worship, moreso than any other deity.

​

Is that based on the ancient stories?

Do you believe that Ancient Abraham was selected among all men by The Creator?

Do you believe in The Revelations of John in The New Testament?

 

[AVG-JOE]

2 Chronicles 15:12-13King James Version (KJV)
12 And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord God of their fathers with all their heart and with all their soul;

13 That whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

So... Islam doesn't fall to far from The Torah when it calls for the destruction of 'Infidels', eh?



I can't decide if The God of Abraham, as defined in The Torah, The New Testament and / or The Qur'an, is flakey or just plain cruel.

Either way... He seems like a god made in the image of Monkeys, not the other way 'round.

 

[RandomVariable]

No where does it say the LORD had any influence in the matter whatsoever.

"and the LORD gave them rest round about." Seems quite clear to me, maybe you should reread your own quote.

I really hate to make a whole post just to state the obvious but "round about" would seem to indicate an area with a border. "Don't bother me and I won't bother you." That is very different than being commanded to go hunt down every infidel on the planet.

 

[RandomVariable]

Well with the exception of the Church of Satan and stuff like that (which I frankly laugh at). But that is because they take a specific anti-God stance.

islam specifically says to kill all non-believers. Surely you can not confuse their god with any other religion's god.

Islam worships The God of Abraham as defined in The Torah and The Qur'an.
Christianity worships The God of Abraham as defined in The Torah and The New Testament.

Same God / different pathways to His presence.

Step one in any religious discussion is to name the god under discussion.

On a side note... How effective is a Deity who can't even keep the kind of 'confusion' we see today between Jews, Christians and Muslims about how to seek Him from causing such destruction?

Islam in no way accepts the Torah. The koran was written from the ground up from a single being claiming to be the angel Gabriel, he may or may not have actually been/be Gabriel. islam may claim to be from the God of Abraham, which in some ways might be true, but to say islam is related to Judaism and Christianity is to completely misunderstand the teachings of Mo. They also claim to follow Moses which is categorically false and I shutter with indignation every time that thought enters my mind.

 

[RandomVariable]

So ANY religion that worships a god that 'god' is automatically part of this one god system of yours?

Well with the exception of the Church of Satan and stuff like that (which I frankly laugh at). But that is because they take a specific anti-God stance.

islam specifically says to kill all non-believers. Surely you can not confuse their god with any other religion's god.

So does the Bible

Book, chapter, and verse(s) please.

Here you go....


"6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.

12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the Lord your God is giving you to live in 13 that troublemakers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock. 16 You are to gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the Lord your God. That town is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt, 17 and none of the condemned things[c] are to be found in your hands. Then the Lord will turn from his fierce anger, will show you mercy, and will have compassion on you. He will increase your numbers, as he promised on oath to your ancestors— 18 because you obey the Lord your God by keeping all his commands that I am giving you today and doing what is right in his eyes."

Deuteronomy 13 - Worshiping Other Gods - If a prophet - Bible Gateway

The LORD is talking to Moses on Mount Sinai. The LORD is referring to only the congregation of the LORD and only the towns the LORD has given Abraham. Yes, if a band of men have become numerous, to the number of thirteen, and have led the town, the whole town as it is worded, astray then the commandment of the LORD is to destroy the town.

Two verses you failed to mention:

10:18He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment. 19Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.
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islam is a completely different religion. The one they claim as their god is ruthless killer of all strangers and knows no borders.

​

 

[AVG-JOE]

So, you're saying that the Muslims don't worship The God of Abraham?


What about all that Islamic crap about Ishmael being the older brother and therefore entitled to the blessings of The God of Abraham?

Everything I see points to two roads to the same Deity.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

​

If believing in, for lack of a better term, "God" is necessary for you to maintain your sanity, why did you pick The God of Abraham?

Why pin your hopes, faith and destiny on a God who was first named the family stories of visions, risk and blessings told by a successful Arab patriarch nomad who lived in The Middle East more than 6,000 years ago?

What's the modern attraction? ​

I think that it's long past Time for Monkeys to bury The God of Abraham, as defined in The Torah, The New Testament and/or The Qur'an with Abraham and celebrate The God of (insert your name here).

The future is that way.

Only god I'd ever worship is Dionysus or Aphrodite. Feasts and orgies, or wisdom and beauty. Why worship a deity who forbids those things? Where's the fun in that?

 

[RandomVariable]

So, you're saying that the Muslims don't worship The God of Abraham?


What about all that Islamic crap about Ishmael being the older brother and therefore entitled to the blessings of The God of Abraham?

Everything I see points to two roads to the same Deity.

The Old Testament and the koran refer to two complete different deities. Someone is giving their own interpretation of God, someone with an agenda.

Abraham petitioning on behalf of the people of Sodom. Genesis 18:

23And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked? 24Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein? 25That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? 26And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes. 27And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes: 28Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it. 29And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake. 30And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there. 31And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake. 32And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake. 33And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.
​

This is not the god of islam. This is God.

 

[BluePhantom]

Well with the exception of the Church of Satan and stuff like that (which I frankly laugh at). But that is because they take a specific anti-God stance.

islam specifically says to kill all non-believers. Surely you can not confuse their god with any other religion's god.

So does the Bible

Book, chapter, and verse(s) please.

Here you go....


"6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.

12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the Lord your God is giving you to live in 13 that troublemakers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock. 16 You are to gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the Lord your God. That town is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt, 17 and none of the condemned things[c] are to be found in your hands. Then the Lord will turn from his fierce anger, will show you mercy, and will have compassion on you. He will increase your numbers, as he promised on oath to your ancestors— 18 because you obey the Lord your God by keeping all his commands that I am giving you today and doing what is right in his eyes."

Deuteronomy 13 - Worshiping Other Gods - If a prophet - Bible Gateway

The LORD is talking to Moses on Mount Sinai. The LORD is referring to only the congregation of the LORD and only the towns the LORD has given Abraham. Yes, if a band of men have become numerous, to the number of thirteen, and have led the town, the whole town as it is worded, astray then the commandment of the LORD is to destroy the town.

Two verses you failed to mention:

10:18He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment. 19Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.
​

islam is a completely different religion. The one they claim as their god is ruthless killer of all strangers and knows no borders.

​

Similarly, the part in the Quran about killing everyone is restricted to a pagan culture that had broken a treaty with the Muslims. People often quote Surat 9:5 but they only do so partially and they leave out the rest Note: "And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush." But that's not the whole verse. The whole verse reads "And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."

Further they ignore the next verses that say "6 And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know. 7 How can there be for the polytheists a treaty in the sight of Allah and with His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at al-Masjid al-Haram? So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him]."

And of course they ignore the context of the entire Surat which is spelled out in "1 [This is a declaration of] disassociation, from Allah and His Messenger, to those with whom you had made a treaty among the polytheists."

So I am not seeing a whole lot of difference here between this and Deuteronomy 13. The specifics of the circumstances are different but the sentiment is the same. Someone went against God or God's people, so kill them.

 

[TrinityPower]

The God of Abraham refers to the faith Abraham demonstrated and it was then identified with him. That's why when it talks about being Abraham's seed it refers to the seed of faith, not his literal lineage

 

[RandomVariable]

islam specifically says to kill all non-believers. Surely you can not confuse their god with any other religion's god.

So does the Bible

Book, chapter, and verse(s) please.

Here you go....


"6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.

12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the Lord your God is giving you to live in 13 that troublemakers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock. 16 You are to gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the Lord your God. That town is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt, 17 and none of the condemned things[c] are to be found in your hands. Then the Lord will turn from his fierce anger, will show you mercy, and will have compassion on you. He will increase your numbers, as he promised on oath to your ancestors— 18 because you obey the Lord your God by keeping all his commands that I am giving you today and doing what is right in his eyes."

Deuteronomy 13 - Worshiping Other Gods - If a prophet - Bible Gateway

The LORD is talking to Moses on Mount Sinai. The LORD is referring to only the congregation of the LORD and only the towns the LORD has given Abraham. Yes, if a band of men have become numerous, to the number of thirteen, and have led the town, the whole town as it is worded, astray then the commandment of the LORD is to destroy the town.

Two verses you failed to mention:

10:18He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment. 19Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.
​

islam is a completely different religion. The one they claim as their god is ruthless killer of all strangers and knows no borders.

​

Similarly, the part in the Quran about killing everyone is restricted to a pagan culture that had broken a treaty with the Muslims. People often quote Surat 9:5 but they only do so partially and they leave out the rest Note: "And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush." But that's not the whole verse. The whole verse reads "And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."

Further they ignore the next verses that say "6 And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know. 7 How can there be for the polytheists a treaty in the sight of Allah and with His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at al-Masjid al-Haram? So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him]."

And of course they ignore the context of the entire Surat which is spelled out in "1 [This is a declaration of] disassociation, from Allah and His Messenger, to those with whom you had made a treaty among the polytheists."

So I am not seeing a whole lot of difference here between this and Deuteronomy 13. The specifics of the circumstances are different but the sentiment is the same. Someone went against God or God's people, so kill them.

Are you that ignorant or are you being dishonest? I find it hard to believe you honestly believe that.

 

[BluePhantom]

Are you that ignorant or are you being dishonest? I find it hard to believe you honestly believe that.

Dude, it's the same God. Both religions, Christianity and Islam, worship the God of Abraham. They relate to Him differently. They have different beliefs about what God wants. But Judaism and Christianity trace their relationship to God through Isaac to Abraham where Muslims trace their relationship with God through Ishmael to Abraham, but both trace back to the God of Abraham. That's why they have been fighting for thousands of years.

Now it's not God's fault for what people write about Him. The Quran says that Jesus was not the Son of God and the Bible says he was. That's just a point of disagreement between the beliefs of Christianity and Islam. Neither is it the fault of the Bible nor the Quran if extremists take things out of context and screw the whole thing up. Most of those who argue that Allah and the Judeo-Christian God are different deities do so on the basis that the Bible and the Quran are vastly different, but that argument has no merit. All that means is that we have three groups of people who have three different ideas about the same God.

 

[RandomVariable]

Are you that ignorant or are you being dishonest? I find it hard to believe you honestly believe that.

Dude, it's the same God. Both religions, Christianity and Islam, worship the God of Abraham. They relate to Him differently. They have different beliefs about what God wants. But Judaism and Christianity trace their relationship to God through Isaac to Abraham where Muslims trace their relationship with God through Ishmael to Abraham, but both trace back to the God of Abraham. That's why they have been fighting for thousands of years.

Now it's not God's fault for what people write about Him. The Quran says that Jesus was not the Son of God and the Bible says he was. That's just a point of disagreement between the beliefs of Christianity and Islam. Neither is it the fault of the Bible nor the Quran if extremists take things out of context and screw the whole thing up. Most of those who argue that Allah and the Judeo-Christian God are different deities do so on the basis that the Bible and the Quran are vastly different, but that argument has no merit. All that means is that we have three groups of people who have three different ideas about the same God.

You are arguing with someone who talks to God. islam worships something completely different. Just like Goddess_Ashtara claims she worships the God of Abraham. She does not, or if she does he does not acknowledge her. So islam can claim all night and day they worship the God of Abraham but whoever that is he is not the same God, he is not even a god for that matter. Ask God yourself if you like.

 

[CMike]

2 Chronicles 15:12-13King James Version (KJV)
12 And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord God of their fathers with all their heart and with all their soul;

13 That whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

You are not giving the context.


It's referring to the Jews during the time of Asa.

Divrei Hayamim II - Chapter 15 - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

It also says

14And they swore to the Lord with a loud voice and with shouting, and with trumpets and with shopharoth.


15And all Judah rejoiced over the oath, because they had sworn with all their heart, and they sought Him with all their will, and He was found by them, and the Lord gave them rest from round about.

And the reward...

19And there was no war until the thirty-fifth year of Asa's reign.

Context

 

[CMike]

So ANY religion that worships a god that 'god' is automatically part of this one god system of yours?

Well with the exception of the Church of Satan and stuff like that (which I frankly laugh at). But that is because they take a specific anti-God stance.

islam specifically says to kill all non-believers. Surely you can not confuse their god with any other religion's god.

So does the Bible

Book, chapter, and verse(s) please.

Deuteronomy 13, verses 1-12 I believe. In fact if memory serves it says don't just kill them, kill their livestock, their families, and burn down the entire town. I may be wrong on those specifics. I would have to look it up

That has to do with people trying to get Jews to worship false prophets.

That has nothing to do with killing all non believers.

People who try to go after jews to worship false G-D are threat to their soul. They are worse than Al Qaida.

 

[there4eyeM]

Yahweh means "I am".
Allah does not translate into that verb.
It is not the same nuance.

 

[there4eyeM]

The Koran says Jesus is a prophet, but he cannot be.

 

[westwall]

Why?​

My God is Mother Nature. I can see her work in everything that's out there, the breath of wind through the tree branches, the rain falling on a pond, the birds pooping on my car...yes, even them! The interconnectedness is a wonder to behold!