Israel and weapons of mass destruction

[Toddsterpatriot]

What you are saying is simply false.

By half of the population i presume you talk about the Palestinians.
Palestinians are not citizens of Israel, nor they want to be.

There is no conceivable reason why people who are not citizens of the country should have a say in how the country is governed.

Your logic may apply to any democratic country , one can say France is not a democratic country because people from Zimbabwe are not allowed to vote in France.

Well, except France wasn't populated by Zimbabweans until a bunch of Frenchmen invaded and made them second class citizens in their own country.

If you applied the "one man, one vote" rule to the place, Israel would be gone.

So they come up with schemes to stop that from happening, I guess. Won't last forever.

If you applied the "one man, one vote" rule to the place, Israel would be gone.

Exactly how many Arabs do you think live in Israel?
Hint: The answer I'm looking for is a number....

 

[JoeB131]

Uh, bubba, you can keep drooling there... but I answered your question.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Uh, bubba, you can keep drooling there... but I answered your question.

Durr, numbers are hard.

 

[theHawk]

Guy, I can claim to be a Klingon, it doesn't make me a Klingon.

There are about 2000 years of Separation between European Jews and Israelites.

For example a black person doesn't suddenly become white if he speaks English and celebrates Christmas.

Nope, but he's no longer African at that point. My grandparents came over from Germany. I am not a German, I'm an American.

According to their tradition, the Jewish people originated from the Israelites of the Southern Levant,

According to their "Tradition". Not their actual ancestory. You make the comment about an American who learns to speak Japanese not being Japanese. I agree with that. And a European who picked Judaism (or his remote ancestors did) do not become "Israelites", because Judaism is closer to what the Israelites practiced than Christianity or Islam.

Did you know that there are 5000 Samaritans in Israel today? They read from the Torah, but they aren't Jews, they don't accept the latter writings of Judaism. So why aren't they getting their own country?

This fight over who the Magic Sky Pixie gave the land to is kind of silly.

It doesn't matter what their actual ancenstory is. The fact of the matter is they own the land now, and are willing to fight to maintain it. Same cannot be said of the Muslims who lost that land.

People can debate until they are blue in the face about what people are the "rightful" ones to own any scrap of land on this planet. The reality is the ones with the capability and the will are the ones who become the rightful owners.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Guy, I can claim to be a Klingon, it doesn't make me a Klingon.

There are about 2000 years of Separation between European Jews and Israelites.

For example a black person doesn't suddenly become white if he speaks English and celebrates Christmas.

Nope, but he's no longer African at that point. My grandparents came over from Germany. I am not a German, I'm an American.

According to their tradition, the Jewish people originated from the Israelites of the Southern Levant,

According to their "Tradition". Not their actual ancestory. You make the comment about an American who learns to speak Japanese not being Japanese. I agree with that. And a European who picked Judaism (or his remote ancestors did) do not become "Israelites", because Judaism is closer to what the Israelites practiced than Christianity or Islam.

Did you know that there are 5000 Samaritans in Israel today? They read from the Torah, but they aren't Jews, they don't accept the latter writings of Judaism. So why aren't they getting their own country?

This fight over who the Magic Sky Pixie gave the land to is kind of silly.

It doesn't matter what their actual ancenstory is. The fact of the matter is they own the land now, and are willing to fight to maintain it. Same cannot be said of the Muslims who lost that land.

People can debate until they are blue in the face about what people are the "rightful" ones to own any scrap of land on this planet. The reality is the ones with the capability and the will are the ones who become the rightful owners.

Same cannot be said of the Muslims who lost that land.

Everybody says that but no one has posted documents showing that it had actually happened.

 

[docmauser1]

Same cannot be said of the Muslims who lost that land.

Everybody says that but no one has posted documents showing that it had actually happened.

That's why I've always been maintaining that, all that arab "liberation-occupation" spiel is just pure lies.

 

[Wolverine1984]

So now you want to control the discussion based on your definition of a word.

Typical zionist tactics and double talk.

My definition ? Well it's mine definition and the online dictionary's
apartheid - definition of apartheid by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
Do you disagree with the definition?

So now you want to control the discussion based on your definition of a word.

Typical zionist tactics and double talk.

What you did now is called, An ad hominem in philosophy.
It means that you are attempting to negate the truth of a claim by pointing out a negative characteristic or belief of the person supporting it.
Ad hominem reasoning is normally described as a logical fallacy.

Basically it is a logic fail because your statement has nothing to do with the claim i made and nothing to do with the definition of the word 'apartheid'.
You are claiming that I'm wrong because i employ 'Zionist tactics' which is irrelevant.

You are a perfect example of why trying to deal with the Zionists who rule Israel is futile.

They just bog any negotiation down with tedious minuta and endless bickering about definitions and other nonsense.

Both the Torah and Quran talk about this proclivity for sophistry inherent in the Jewish psyche.

Let us recap:

You have claimed :

Israel is a fascist, apartheid state; masquerading as a democracy, much like the old South Africa.

-I have proved you wrong by stating facts that can be easily verified.
(Saying that Arabs and Jews In Israel have the same rights and are equal under the law.) http://www.usmessageboard.com/4732468-post244.html

-You countered my claim by giving an example of wrongfully convicted Arab:http://www.usmessageboard.com/4732496-post245.html

-I then pointed out that apartheid regime (like it was in south Africa) is a matter of policy and not a single example.Also I pointed out that your example did not counter my previous claims :http://www.usmessageboard.com/4732580-post246.html

-Your response to that was that my definition of 'apartheid' was not good
but instead of presenting an alternative definition, your argument was:

So now you want to control the discussion based on your definition of a word.

Typical zionist tactics and double talk.

-I pointed out that it is ad hominem (it means that the logic in your claim is faulty)and that your argument is irrelevant to the points we have previously discussed because it has nothing to do to the reason why Israel is apartheid or not.

And now you are saying :

You are a perfect example of why trying to deal with the Zionists who rule Israel is futile.

They just bog any negotiation down with tedious minuta and endless bickering about definitions and other nonsense.

Both the Torah and Quran talk about this proclivity for sophistry inherent in the Jewish psyche.

You were trying to prove that Israel is an apartheid state, failed to present any factual evidence to support your claim,instead you are saying that my argument is invalid becaouse 'it is imposible to deal with Zionists'

This time it is Abusive ad hominem: (also called personal abuse or personal attacks) usually involves insulting or belittling one's opponent in order to attack his claim or invalidate his argument, but can also involve pointing out true character flaws or actions that are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions.

 

[Wolverine1984]

What you are saying is simply false.

By half of the population i presume you talk about the Palestinians.
Palestinians are not citizens of Israel, nor they want to be.

There is no conceivable reason why people who are not citizens of the country should have a say in how the country is governed.

Your logic may apply to any democratic country , one can say France is not a democratic country because people from Zimbabwe are not allowed to vote in France.

Well, except France wasn't populated by Zimbabweans until a bunch of Frenchmen invaded and made them second class citizens in their own country.

If you applied the "one man, one vote" rule to the place, Israel would be gone.

So they come up with schemes to stop that from happening, I guess. Won't last forever.

Arab citizens in Israel are the same class as Jewish citizens.
Arab and Jews have the same rights and equal under the law.
so your claim about "second class citizens in their own country." is incorrect.

The rule "one man, one vote" is applied in Israel, everyone of it's citizens have the right to vote Arab, Jew or Zimbabwean.
so your assumption about it not being implemented is also incorrect.

It is unreasonable to say that people who are not citizens of the sate should get a vote.

 

[JoeB131]

Arab citizens in Israel are the same class as Jewish citizens.
Arab and Jews have the same rights and equal under the law.
so your claim about "second class citizens in their own country." is incorrect.

The rule "one man, one vote" is applied in Israel, everyone of it's citizens have the right to vote Arab, Jew or Zimbabwean.
so your assumption about it not being implemented is also incorrect.

It is unreasonable to say that people who are not citizens of the sate should get a vote.

Again, when Hamas and Fatah can put up candidates for the Knesset, then you might have a point.

Seriously, have you looked at film for how Jewish people in Tel Aviv live compared to Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. If you are really going to tell me that's equality, you're somewhat deluded, or deluding yourself.

 

[docmauser1]

Again, when Hamas and Fatah can put up candidates for the Knesset, then you might have a point.

Enjoying MS?

 

[Wolverine1984]

Arab citizens in Israel are the same class as Jewish citizens.
Arab and Jews have the same rights and equal under the law.
so your claim about "second class citizens in their own country." is incorrect.

The rule "one man, one vote" is applied in Israel, everyone of it's citizens have the right to vote Arab, Jew or Zimbabwean.
so your assumption about it not being implemented is also incorrect.

It is unreasonable to say that people who are not citizens of the sate should get a vote.

Again, when Hamas and Fatah can put up candidates for the Knesset, then you might have a point.

Seriously, have you looked at film for how Jewish people in Tel Aviv live compared to Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. If you are really going to tell me that's equality, you're somewhat deluded, or deluding yourself.

Your argument has no bearing on equality in Israel when you giving an example of people who are not citizens of the state.

Its the same thing as saying the US is not democratic because non-citizens are not allowed to vote.

 

[Ropey]

Arab citizens in Israel are the same class as Jewish citizens.
Arab and Jews have the same rights and equal under the law.
so your claim about "second class citizens in their own country." is incorrect.

The rule "one man, one vote" is applied in Israel, everyone of it's citizens have the right to vote Arab, Jew or Zimbabwean.
so your assumption about it not being implemented is also incorrect.

It is unreasonable to say that people who are not citizens of the sate should get a vote.

Again, when Hamas and Fatah can put up candidates for the Knesset, then you might have a point.

Seriously, have you looked at film for how Jewish people in Tel Aviv live compared to Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. If you are really going to tell me that's equality, you're somewhat deluded, or deluding yourself.

Your argument has no bearing on equality in Israel when you giving an example of people who are not citizens of the state.

Its the same thing as saying the US is not democratic because non-citizens are not allowed to vote.

Joe: How many pounds in a mile? If there are no pounds to miles then how are you supposed to be able to measure milk spread out over the mile?



That's why I seldom post in this section.

 

[JoeB131]

Arab citizens in Israel are the same class as Jewish citizens.
Arab and Jews have the same rights and equal under the law.
so your claim about "second class citizens in their own country." is incorrect.

The rule "one man, one vote" is applied in Israel, everyone of it's citizens have the right to vote Arab, Jew or Zimbabwean.
so your assumption about it not being implemented is also incorrect.

It is unreasonable to say that people who are not citizens of the sate should get a vote.

Again, when Hamas and Fatah can put up candidates for the Knesset, then you might have a point.

Seriously, have you looked at film for how Jewish people in Tel Aviv live compared to Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. If you are really going to tell me that's equality, you're somewhat deluded, or deluding yourself.

Your argument has no bearing on equality in Israel when you giving an example of people who are not citizens of the state.

Its the same thing as saying the US is not democratic because non-citizens are not allowed to vote.

That argument is ONLY valid if Israel pulls out of Gaza and the West Bank and leaves them to their own devices.

They are occupying their land, they have to give them full rights. Sorry. Just the only way to be fair. Otherwise, you have Aparatheid.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Arab citizens in Israel are the same class as Jewish citizens.
Arab and Jews have the same rights and equal under the law.
so your claim about "second class citizens in their own country." is incorrect.

The rule "one man, one vote" is applied in Israel, everyone of it's citizens have the right to vote Arab, Jew or Zimbabwean.
so your assumption about it not being implemented is also incorrect.

It is unreasonable to say that people who are not citizens of the sate should get a vote.

Again, when Hamas and Fatah can put up candidates for the Knesset, then you might have a point.

Seriously, have you looked at film for how Jewish people in Tel Aviv live compared to Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. If you are really going to tell me that's equality, you're somewhat deluded, or deluding yourself.

Again, when Hamas and Fatah can put up candidates for the Knesset, then you might have a point.

Again, how does that change the fact that Arabs can vote in Israel while blacks could not vote in South Africa?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Again, when Hamas and Fatah can put up candidates for the Knesset, then you might have a point.

Seriously, have you looked at film for how Jewish people in Tel Aviv live compared to Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. If you are really going to tell me that's equality, you're somewhat deluded, or deluding yourself.

Your argument has no bearing on equality in Israel when you giving an example of people who are not citizens of the state.

Its the same thing as saying the US is not democratic because non-citizens are not allowed to vote.

That argument is ONLY valid if Israel pulls out of Gaza and the West Bank and leaves them to their own devices.

They are occupying their land, they have to give them full rights. Sorry. Just the only way to be fair. Otherwise, you have Aparatheid.

They are occupying their land

Who gave them "their" land before "they" occupied it?

 

[JoeB131]

Again, when Hamas and Fatah can put up candidates for the Knesset, then you might have a point.

Seriously, have you looked at film for how Jewish people in Tel Aviv live compared to Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. If you are really going to tell me that's equality, you're somewhat deluded, or deluding yourself.

Again, when Hamas and Fatah can put up candidates for the Knesset, then you might have a point.

Again, how does that change the fact that Arabs can vote in Israel while blacks could not vote in South Africa?

Because it's not true.

Blacks were allowed to vote in South Africa. Just not for the ANC. only for parties the White government approved.

Arabs are allowed to vote with the Palestinian Authority, and the few who are Israeli citizens can vote for approved parties in the Knesset. But it's not real democracy.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Again, when Hamas and Fatah can put up candidates for the Knesset, then you might have a point.

Seriously, have you looked at film for how Jewish people in Tel Aviv live compared to Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. If you are really going to tell me that's equality, you're somewhat deluded, or deluding yourself.

Again, when Hamas and Fatah can put up candidates for the Knesset, then you might have a point.

Again, how does that change the fact that Arabs can vote in Israel while blacks could not vote in South Africa?

Because it's not true.

Blacks were allowed to vote in South Africa. Just not for the ANC. only for parties the White government approved.

Arabs are allowed to vote with the Palestinian Authority, and the few who are Israeli citizens can vote for approved parties in the Knesset. But it's not real democracy.

Really? There were black members of the apartheid government in South Africa?
I see you've discovered that Arab citizens can vote for Arab citizens in Israel.
And that some are even in the Knesset. Awesome!

 

[docmauser1]

That argument is ONLY valid if Israel pulls out of Gaza and the West Bank and leaves them to their own devices.They are occupying their land, they have to give them full rights. Sorry. Just the only way to be fair. Otherwise, you have Aparatheid.

Enjoying an ms explosion again?

 

[Jos]

That argument is ONLY valid if Israel pulls out of Gaza and the West Bank and leaves them to their own devices.They are occupying their land, they have to give them full rights. Sorry. Just the only way to be fair. Otherwise, you have Aparatheid.

Enjoying an ms explosion again?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBe2nHMr7wA]Ms explosion Man (Parte 1) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[JoeB131]

That argument is ONLY valid if Israel pulls out of Gaza and the West Bank and leaves them to their own devices.They are occupying their land, they have to give them full rights. Sorry. Just the only way to be fair. Otherwise, you have Aparatheid.

Enjoying an ms explosion again?

are you some kind of high grade retard?