Israel attacks civilians

[Jos]

The US conquered Iraq and left, they didn't start moving their people in and building settlements.
The Land was conquered but not acquired, got it now?

 

[toomuchtime_]

The US conquered Iraq and left, they didn't start moving their people in and building settlements.
The Land was conquered but not acquired, got it now?

Nor has Israel. Within a week of the end of the Six Day War Israel offered to return the land it had captured in return for peace. The Arabs said, no, thus abandoning their claims to the land. Nonetheless, when Egypt decided to opt for peace with Israel, Israel did not hesitate to return the Sinai, by far the most valuable piece of real estate it had acquired in the war, by sending in the IDF to forcefully remove Israelis who had established communities there.

The West Bank and Gaza were unincorporated remnants of the former UN protectorate for Palestine, and since the Six Day War the Arabs living in these territories have acquired more political and civil rights than they could ever have hoped to under the Egyptian and Jordanian occupations and have been offered a state of their own, something that could never have happened under the Egyptian or Jordanian occupations, in return for peace with Israel, but they have responded with nothing but atrocities against Jews in Israel and around the world, conspiring to raise generation after generation of children to admire and emulate terrorists who commit the most heinous crimes against Jews.

 

[Wolverine1984]

The US conquered Iraq and left, they didn't start moving their people in and building settlements.
The Land was conquered but not acquired, got it now?

Nor has Israel. Within a week of the end of the Six Day War Israel offered to return the land it had captured in return for peace. The Arabs said, no, thus abandoning their claims to the land. Nonetheless, when Egypt decided to opt for peace with Israel, Israel did not hesitate to return the Sinai, by far the most valuable piece of real estate it had acquired in the war, by sending in the IDF to forcefully remove Israelis who had established communities there.

The West Bank and Gaza were unincorporated remnants of the former UN protectorate for Palestine, and since the Six Day War the Arabs living in these territories have acquired more political and civil rights than they could ever have hoped to under the Egyptian and Jordanian occupations and have been offered a state of their own, something that could never have happened under the Egyptian or Jordanian occupations, in return for peace with Israel, but they have responded with nothing but atrocities against Jews in Israel and around the world, conspiring to raise generation after generation of children to admire and emulate terrorists who commit the most heinous crimes against Jews.

Very good argument that proves that Israel is prepared to give land in return for peace.

 

[georgephillip]

I would try to put it in layman's terms:

Lets say there is a sandbox in the park, and P F Tinmore is playing in the sandbox.

And then i come along, and i ask the people around "who owns this sandbox?"
The people are saying :"well mostly this kid, we call him Ottoman".
I come up to Ottoman, and tell him that i would like to play in the sandbox as well, so i ask him to sell me a portion of it.
Eventually he agrees, and i go and sit in the portion of the sandbox i just bought.
As time goes by, I by more of the sandbox from Ottoman and other people who apparently own portions of the sandbox.

I buy more and more portions of the sandbox ,friction between me and P F Tinmore rises.
The responsible adults who are standing around the sandbox agree that they should partion the sandbox to me and P F Tinmore in order to achieve peaceful resolution.
So they draw a line in the sand , saying this will be P F Tinmore part , and This will me my part.
I agreed , P F Tinmore does not.
The day after , P F Tinmore came along with some high school friends of his lets call them Jordan , Syria , Egypt and Lebanon.
And all of them started fighting me, as we fought we grew tiered and neither one of us wanted to proceed , so i asked his friend Lebanon , do you want to stop fighting? "Yes" he replied. "Alright" I said , but only if you don't cross this line, and he agreed.
Same thing happened with his other friends.
Those lines define the portion of the sandbox witch is mine as i have successfully defended it from people who tried to kick me out of it.

What percentage of the sandbox (Mandate Palestine) did the Jews own in 1948?

I don't know ... But you know what? that doesn't even really matters even if they owned 1% of the land , were attacked and in the end of the war they controlled 80% of the territory it makes this territory theirs.

You may have a point if there was no war.
Because this war actually stated the Arab point of view on the matter, and it was "we are not ready for a compromise and we will try to drive you out by force."
They tried and they failed, they can't just go around saying "well this land was ours" maybe some of it where theirs , but they lost it in battle.

I think it matters because the Jews were attacked after they inflicted a Jewish state on a majority of their non-Jewish neighbors. If I understand your argument, you're saying might makes right. It also seems obvious the role western imperialism played in the creation of the Jewish state; starting with the Balfour Declaration in 1917.

 

[Jos]

The US conquered Iraq and left, they didn't start moving their people in and building settlements.
The Land was conquered but not acquired, got it now?

Nor has Israel. Within a week of the end of the Six Day War Israel offered to return the land it had captured in return for peace. The Arabs said, no, thus abandoning their claims to the land. Nonetheless, when Egypt decided to opt for peace with Israel, Israel did not hesitate to return the Sinai, by far the most valuable piece of real estate it had acquired in the war, by sending in the IDF to forcefully remove Israelis who had established communities there.

The West Bank and Gaza were unincorporated remnants of the former UN protectorate for Palestine, and since the Six Day War the Arabs living in these territories have acquired more political and civil rights than they could ever have hoped to under the Egyptian and Jordanian occupations and have been offered a state of their own, something that could never have happened under the Egyptian or Jordanian occupations, in return for peace with Israel, but they have responded with nothing but atrocities against Jews in Israel and around the world, conspiring to raise generation after generation of children to admire and emulate terrorists who commit the most heinous crimes against Jews.

Very good argument that proves that Israel is prepared to give land in return for peace.

Its not theirs to give,Wilmoth

 

[toomuchtime_]

Nor has Israel. Within a week of the end of the Six Day War Israel offered to return the land it had captured in return for peace. The Arabs said, no, thus abandoning their claims to the land. Nonetheless, when Egypt decided to opt for peace with Israel, Israel did not hesitate to return the Sinai, by far the most valuable piece of real estate it had acquired in the war, by sending in the IDF to forcefully remove Israelis who had established communities there.

The West Bank and Gaza were unincorporated remnants of the former UN protectorate for Palestine, and since the Six Day War the Arabs living in these territories have acquired more political and civil rights than they could ever have hoped to under the Egyptian and Jordanian occupations and have been offered a state of their own, something that could never have happened under the Egyptian or Jordanian occupations, in return for peace with Israel, but they have responded with nothing but atrocities against Jews in Israel and around the world, conspiring to raise generation after generation of children to admire and emulate terrorists who commit the most heinous crimes against Jews.

Very good argument that proves that Israel is prepared to give land in return for peace.

Its not theirs to give,Wilmoth

That's right. Both sides say it's up to God.

What's that?

God says he's leaving it up to Netanyahu.

 

[Wolverine1984]

What percentage of the sandbox (Mandate Palestine) did the Jews own in 1948?

I don't know ... But you know what? that doesn't even really matters even if they owned 1% of the land , were attacked and in the end of the war they controlled 80% of the territory it makes this territory theirs.

You may have a point if there was no war.
Because this war actually stated the Arab point of view on the matter, and it was "we are not ready for a compromise and we will try to drive you out by force."
They tried and they failed, they can't just go around saying "well this land was ours" maybe some of it where theirs , but they lost it in battle.

I think it matters because the Jews were attacked after they inflicted a Jewish state on a majority of their non-Jewish neighbors. If I understand your argument, you're saying might makes right. It also seems obvious the role western imperialism played in the creation of the Jewish state; starting with the Balfour Declaration in 1917.

I'm saying that by attacking , Arabs said might makes right.
They have tried to push the Jews out by means of force , and what ever they have lost during that try is their responsibility.

 

[Wolverine1984]

Nor has Israel. Within a week of the end of the Six Day War Israel offered to return the land it had captured in return for peace. The Arabs said, no, thus abandoning their claims to the land. Nonetheless, when Egypt decided to opt for peace with Israel, Israel did not hesitate to return the Sinai, by far the most valuable piece of real estate it had acquired in the war, by sending in the IDF to forcefully remove Israelis who had established communities there.

The West Bank and Gaza were unincorporated remnants of the former UN protectorate for Palestine, and since the Six Day War the Arabs living in these territories have acquired more political and civil rights than they could ever have hoped to under the Egyptian and Jordanian occupations and have been offered a state of their own, something that could never have happened under the Egyptian or Jordanian occupations, in return for peace with Israel, but they have responded with nothing but atrocities against Jews in Israel and around the world, conspiring to raise generation after generation of children to admire and emulate terrorists who commit the most heinous crimes against Jews.

Very good argument that proves that Israel is prepared to give land in return for peace.

Its not theirs to give,Wilmoth

Who's was it than ?

 

[georgephillip]

I don't know ... But you know what? that doesn't even really matters even if they owned 1% of the land , were attacked and in the end of the war they controlled 80% of the territory it makes this territory theirs.

You may have a point if there was no war.
Because this war actually stated the Arab point of view on the matter, and it was "we are not ready for a compromise and we will try to drive you out by force."
They tried and they failed, they can't just go around saying "well this land was ours" maybe some of it where theirs , but they lost it in battle.

I think it matters because the Jews were attacked after they inflicted a Jewish state on a majority of their non-Jewish neighbors. If I understand your argument, you're saying might makes right. It also seems obvious the role western imperialism played in the creation of the Jewish state; starting with the Balfour Declaration in 1917.

I'm saying that by attacking , Arabs said might makes right.
They have tried to push the Jews out by means of force , and what ever they have lost during that try is their responsibility.

I'm saying the Arab response was defensive in nature, possibly inspired by the late "47 Haganah offesives that seized control over all the territory allocated by the UN to the Jewish State and generating large numbers of Arab refugees.

Atrocities on both sides convinced Harry Truman to propose a UN trusteeship rather than partition:

"unfortunately, it has become clear that the partition plan cannot be carried out at this time by peaceful means...unless emergency action is taken, there will be no public authority in Palestine...capable of preserving law and order.

"Violence and bloodshed will descend upon the Holy Land."

Arab

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

What percentage of the sandbox (Mandate Palestine) did the Jews own in 1948?

I don't know ... But you know what? that doesn't even really matters even if they owned 1% of the land , were attacked and in the end of the war they controlled 80% of the territory it makes this territory theirs.

You may have a point if there was no war.
Because this war actually stated the Arab point of view on the matter, and it was "we are not ready for a compromise and we will try to drive you out by force."
They tried and they failed, they can't just go around saying "well this land was ours" maybe some of it where theirs , but they lost it in battle.

I think it matters because the Jews were attacked after they inflicted a Jewish state on a majority of their non-Jewish neighbors. If I understand your argument, you're saying might makes right. It also seems obvious the role western imperialism played in the creation of the Jewish state; starting with the Balfour Declaration in 1917.

The Ottoman Empire lost. So sad.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel won no land in the 1948 war.

That doesn't count. When did Israel win any land. When did it define its borders?

• 1948 Arab–Israeli War (November 1947 - July 1949) - Started as 6 months of civil war between Jewish and Arab militias at the end of the British Mandate of Palestine and turned into a regular war after the declaration of independence of Israel and the intervention of several Arab armies. In its conclusion, a set of agreements were signed between Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria, called the 1949 Armistice Agreements, which established the armistice lines between Israel and its neighbours, also known as the Green Line.

Also from your link.

The areas of Palestine not occupied by Israel (the Gaza Strip and West Bank) were occupied by Egypt and Jordan respectively until 1967. See the related articles Occupation of the Gaza Strip by Egypt and Occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem by Jordan.

The Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary,...

The armistice demarcation line was drawn for the most part along the 1922 international border between Egypt and Palestine,...

The armistice line ("Green Line", see also Blue Line (Lebanon)) was drawn along the international boundary between Lebanon and Palestine...

On 15 July when the Israeli Army expelled the population of Wadi Fukin after the village had been transferred to the Israeli-occupied area under the terms of the Armistice Agreement concluded between Israel and the Jordan...

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Israel won no land in the 1948 war.

• 1948 Arab–Israeli War (November 1947 - July 1949) - Started as 6 months of civil war between Jewish and Arab militias at the end of the British Mandate of Palestine and turned into a regular war after the declaration of independence of Israel and the intervention of several Arab armies. In its conclusion, a set of agreements were signed between Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria, called the 1949 Armistice Agreements, which established the armistice lines between Israel and its neighbours, also known as the Green Line.

Also from your link.

The areas of Palestine not occupied by Israel (the Gaza Strip and West Bank) were occupied by Egypt and Jordan respectively until 1967. See the related articles Occupation of the Gaza Strip by Egypt and Occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem by Jordan.

The Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary,...

The armistice demarcation line was drawn for the most part along the 1922 international border between Egypt and Palestine,...

The armistice line ("Green Line", see also Blue Line (Lebanon)) was drawn along the international boundary between Lebanon and Palestine...

On 15 July when the Israeli Army expelled the population of Wadi Fukin after the village had been transferred to the Israeli-occupied area under the terms of the Armistice Agreement concluded between Israel and the Jordan...

Yes they did. And more in 1967.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel won no land in the 1948 war.

Also from your link.

Yes they did. And more in 1967.

Everybody says that but can provide no documentation to confirm that assertion.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Israel won no land in the 1948 war.

Yes they did. And more in 1967.

Everybody says that but can provide no documentation to confirm that assertion.

You need documentation? Haven't you seen the Israeli soldiers with guns walking around on the formerly Arab land?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Yes they did. And more in 1967.

Everybody says that but can provide no documentation to confirm that assertion.

You need documentation? Haven't you seen the Israeli soldiers with guns walking around on the formerly Arab land?

Yes, that is called a military occupation. That doesn't prove any ownership of that land.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Everybody says that but can provide no documentation to confirm that assertion.

You need documentation? Haven't you seen the Israeli soldiers with guns walking around on the formerly Arab land?

Yes, that is called a military occupation. That doesn't prove any ownership of that land.

Waaaaa.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You need documentation? Haven't you seen the Israeli soldiers with guns walking around on the formerly Arab land?

Yes, that is called a military occupation. That doesn't prove any ownership of that land.

Waaaaa.

Israel's biggest lie is that it won land.

You have heard that lie your whole life so I can understand that you believe it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yes, that is called a military occupation. That doesn't prove any ownership of that land.

Waaaaa.

Israel's biggest lie is that it won land.

You have heard that lie your whole life so I can understand that you believe it.

It's awful. Israelis in East Jerusalem. Israelis in the West Bank.
Just awful. Thinking they can live there.
Poor Arabs. Keep losing.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Waaaaa.

Israel's biggest lie is that it won land.

You have heard that lie your whole life so I can understand that you believe it.

It's awful. Israelis in East Jerusalem. Israelis in the West Bank.
Just awful. Thinking they can live there.
Poor Arabs. Keep losing.

And they used to be in Gaza.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybRMfwkS-kk&feature=related]Gaza: The fight for Israel - YouTube[/ame]

BTW, there are 6 parts to this. evacuation.

 

[georgephillip]

I don't know ... But you know what? that doesn't even really matters even if they owned 1% of the land , were attacked and in the end of the war they controlled 80% of the territory it makes this territory theirs.

You may have a point if there was no war.
Because this war actually stated the Arab point of view on the matter, and it was "we are not ready for a compromise and we will try to drive you out by force."
They tried and they failed, they can't just go around saying "well this land was ours" maybe some of it where theirs , but they lost it in battle.

I think it matters because the Jews were attacked after they inflicted a Jewish state on a majority of their non-Jewish neighbors. If I understand your argument, you're saying might makes right. It also seems obvious the role western imperialism played in the creation of the Jewish state; starting with the Balfour Declaration in 1917.

The Ottoman Empire lost. So sad.

Stop with the pathetic whining, already.
Ottoman lost in 1918.
Thirty years later, "Israel declared its independence and sovereignty, though without specifying borders."

How does a sovereign state declare its independence without defining its borders?

Arab