Israel attacks civilians

[Jos]

Oh dear, no link then it did not happen

Ignorance isn't a valid argument here.

thats not a link

 

[georgephillip]

So what if the proposed Jewish state contained 400,000 Arabs at its inception?

Seems like too many too, with the clear prospect of wanton arab settlement activity.

They would have held no rights of nationality which, by definition, apply only to the "chosen."

Baseless drivel.Drivel. Anywhere jewish development started there would be arabs claiming their family donkey had been pissing there for generations, of course.

Abdul Rahman Azzam also predicted an invading Muslim horde from outside Palestine that would be larger than Palestine's Arab population. His arrogance and error was matched only by his hyperbole.

Cool evidence that arabs started that war, and have been dumbass too. Thanks are due, of course.

"According to Pappé, plan Dalet was the master plan for the expulsion of the Palestinians."

Pappe is full of shitt, so's wikipedia, so are those quoting both of the former, of course. In memorable words of Benny Morris "Plan D has given rise over the decades to a minor historiographic controversy, with Palestinian and pro-Palestinian historians charging that it was the Haganah's master plan for the expulsion of the country's Arabs. But a cursory examination of the actual text leads to a different conclusion. The plan calls for securing the emergent state's territory and borders and the border areas ... Nowhere does the document speak of a policy or desire to expel 'the Arab inhabitants' of Palestine or any of its constituent regions; nowhere is any brigade instructed to clear out 'the Arabs'."

Just for you, Shitt-Headd:

"During Operation Hiram in the upper Galilee, Israeli military commanders received the order: 'Do all you can to immediately and quickly purge the conquered territories of all hostile elements in accordance with the orders issued.

The residents should be helped to leave the areas that have been conquered'. (31 October 1948, Moshe Carmel)

"The UN's acting Mediator, Ralph Bunche, reported that United Nations Observers had recorded extensive looting of villages in Galilee by Israeli forces, who carried away goats, sheep and mules. This looting, United Nations Observers report, appeared to have been systematic as army trucks were used for transportation.

"The situation, states the report, created a new influx of refugees into Lebanon. Israeli forces, he stated, have occupied the area in Galilee formerly occupied by Kaukji's forces, and have crossed the Lebanese frontier.

"Bunche goes on to say 'that Israeli forces now hold positions inside the south-east corner of Lebanon, involving some fifteen Lebanese villages which are occupied by small Israeli detachments'.[60]

"According to Morris[9]:492 altogether 200,000–230,000 Palestinians left in this stage.

"According to Ilan Pappé, 'In a matter of seven months, five hundred and thirty one villages were destroyed and eleven urban neighborhoods emptied […] The mass expulsion was accompanied by massacres, rape and [the] imprisonment of men […] in labor camps for periods [of] over a year'".

Did you get your share of goats and sheep?

1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[docmauser1]

Oh dear, no link then it did not happen

Ignorance isn't a valid argument here.

thats not a link

But amazon is, of course. My faithful readership should learn to provide for themselves.

 

[docmauser1]

So what if the proposed Jewish state contained 400,000 Arabs at its inception?

Seems like too many too, with the clear prospect of wanton arab settlement activity.Baseless drivel.Drivel. Anywhere jewish development started there would be arabs claiming their family donkey had been pissing there for generations, of course.Cool evidence that arabs started that war, and have been dumbass too. Thanks are due, of course.

"According to Pappé, plan Dalet was the master plan for the expulsion of the Palestinians."

Pappe is full of shitt, so's wikipedia, so are those quoting both of the former, of course. In memorable words of Benny Morris "Plan D has given rise over the decades to a minor historiographic controversy, with Palestinian and pro-Palestinian historians charging that it was the Haganah's master plan for the expulsion of the country's Arabs. But a cursory examination of the actual text leads to a different conclusion. The plan calls for securing the emergent state's territory and borders and the border areas ... Nowhere does the document speak of a policy or desire to expel 'the Arab inhabitants' of Palestine or any of its constituent regions; nowhere is any brigade instructed to clear out 'the Arabs'."

Just for you, Shitt-Headd:

Oh! Feisty drivel!

"According to Morris:492 altogether 200,000–230,000 Palestinians left in this stage.

Coll proof that bullets don't fly in one direction only! Besides the only palestinians that time were jews. Arabs demanded to be called "southern Syria". The aurhor of that wikidrivel should get an education, a life and a job, and promise not to make stuff up.

"According to Ilan Pappé, 'In a matter of seven months, five hundred and thirty one villages were destroyed and eleven urban neighborhoods emptied...

Pappe is full of shitt, so's wikipedia, so are those quoting both of the former, of course. In memorable words of D.Pryce-Jones "In interviews Pappe regularly explains: "We do [historiography] because of ideological reasons, not because we are truth seekers.""

Did you get your share of goats and sheep?

I've got more than my fair share reading "goats and sheep" here, of course!

 

[georgephillip]

"A group of Jews and Arabs are fighting in the Israeli courts to be recognized as 'Israelis,' a nationality currently denied them, in a case that officials fear may threaten the country's self-declared status as a Jewish state.

"Israel refused to recognize an Israeli nationality at the country's establishment in 1948, making an unusual distinction between 'citizenship' and 'nationality.'

"Although all Israelis qualify as 'citizens of Israel,' the state is defined as belonging to the 'Jewish nation,' meaning not only the 5.6 million Israeli Jews but also more than seven million Jews in the diaspora..."

"Uri Avnery, a peace activist and former member of the parliament, said the current nationality system gave Jews living abroad a far greater stake in Israel than its 1.3 million Arab citizens.

"The State of Israel cannot recognize an 'Israeli" nation because it is the state of the 'Jewish' nation . . . it belongs to the Jews of Brooklyn, Budapest and Buenos Aires, even though these consider themselves as belonging to the American, Hungarian or Argentine nations (states).

"International Zionist organizations representing the diaspora, such as the Jewish National Fund and the Jewish Agency, are given in Israeli law a special, quasi-governmental role, especially in relation to immigration and control over large areas of Israeli territory for the settlement of Jews only..."

Jonathan Cook, "'Israeli Nation' vs. 'Jewish State'"

 

[docmauser1]

"Uri Avnery, a peace activist and former member of the parliament, said the current nationality system gave Jews living abroad a far greater stake in Israel than its 1.3 million Arab citizens.

Let us recall the memorable words S.Plaut "... Avnery's late mother was a gallant woman of valor (actually, my own theory is that all leftists choose their political positions simply on the basis of their desire to make their mommies angry). A couple of weeks back, the rightish weekly Makor Rishon published a scoop. Seems that in Momma Avnery's will, she denounced Comrade Sonny and left him without a farthing because she considered him a vile traitor."
Mommy knows, indeed.

Jonathan Cook, "'Israeli Nation' vs. 'Jewish State'"

Cook is just a little vile shitt.

 

[georgephillip]

I'm guessing you have no explanation for why Israel refused to recognize an Israeli nationality at its inception.

"The head of the campaign for Israeli nationality, Uzzi Ornan, a retired linguistics professor, said: 'It is absurd that Israel, which recognizes dozens of different nationalities, refuses to recognize the one nationality it is supposed to represent.'"

Another vile mother-hating leftist, I'm sure.

Jonathan Cook, "'Israeli Nation' vs. 'Jewish State'"

 

[Wolverine1984]

"A group of Jews and Arabs are fighting in the Israeli courts to be recognized as 'Israelis,' a nationality currently denied them, in a case that officials fear may threaten the country's self-declared status as a Jewish state.

"Israel refused to recognize an Israeli nationality at the country's establishment in 1948, making an unusual distinction between 'citizenship' and 'nationality.'

"Although all Israelis qualify as 'citizens of Israel,' the state is defined as belonging to the 'Jewish nation,' meaning not only the 5.6 million Israeli Jews but also more than seven million Jews in the diaspora..."

"Uri Avnery, a peace activist and former member of the parliament, said the current nationality system gave Jews living abroad a far greater stake in Israel than its 1.3 million Arab citizens.

"The State of Israel cannot recognize an 'Israeli" nation because it is the state of the 'Jewish' nation . . . it belongs to the Jews of Brooklyn, Budapest and Buenos Aires, even though these consider themselves as belonging to the American, Hungarian or Argentine nations (states).

"International Zionist organizations representing the diaspora, such as the Jewish National Fund and the Jewish Agency, are given in Israeli law a special, quasi-governmental role, especially in relation to immigration and control over large areas of Israeli territory for the settlement of Jews only..."

Jonathan Cook, "'Israeli Nation' vs. 'Jewish State'"

Dude what are you talking about ? What rights are granted under 'Nationality' privilege as you call it ?
What rights do Jews abroad Israel enjoy that the Israeli citizens Arabs do not ?

 

[georgephillip]

Are you denying there are currently over 130 different nationalities recognized by the State of Israel for use in registering for an ID card? What other nation in the world recognizes "Arab" and "Unknown" but not "Israeli"?

Jonathon Cook is reporting on a group of Jews and Arabs who are petitioning the Israeli Supreme Court to be recognized as Israelis. Opponents argue against their petition by claiming it would threaten Israel's self-declared status as a Jewish state.

The Israeli government is waging a steadily escalating campaign to criminalize politically legitimate activities of Israeli-Palestinians. So far, no Jews living abroad have been subjected to similar tactics of apartheid. Maybe Chomsky should be worried?

 

[docmauser1]

I'm guessing

A euphemism for "I'm lost for the life of it".

you have no explanation for why Israel refused to recognize an Israeli nationality at its inception.

Of course, we have! Israel has been intended to be a safe place for jews, that's it. Senior judophobes in this respect are very much inconsistent - demanding of jews to get out of (your country here) and then getting upset they go to Israel. Very much inconsistent, indeed.

 

[Wolverine1984]

"In Israel Citizenship and nationality are two different things.

"Citizenship (ezrahut) may be held by Arabs or Jews. Nationality (le'um), bestows much greater rights than citizenship, is for Jews alone.

"In 1972 the Supreme Court that non-Jews cannot qualify for nationality rights in the state of Israel because there is no Israeli nation separate from the Jewish people."

Would Jews immigrating from other countries gain the rights bestowed by nationality, rights denied to native born Arabs or Christians?

Is there no Israeli nation separate from the Jewish people?

http://www.wake-up-america.net/ISRAEL- A THEOCRATIC RACIST STATE.htm

I'm sorry,but this is just a blunt lie, and even thought your source 'Wake-up-america' screams objectivity, it must be misinformed ... (And for some reason doesn't load.)

I don't know what your source was trying to say ... What i do know is this:
There is absolutely no differentiation between citizens of Israel under the law.

So to your question, the Jews immigrating from other countries will have the same rights as native born Arabs or Christians or Buddhist or Jews or any other human being who has Israeli citizenship.

Arab citizens of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'll even tell you one better, Arabs rights in Israel is much better that of any Arab living in the neighboring countries.

According to Ishmael Khaldi, an Arab citizen of Israel and the nation's first high ranking Muslim in the Israeli foreign service, while Israeli society is far from perfect, minorities in Israel fare far better than any other country in the Middle East. He wrote:

I am a proud Israeli – along with many other non-Jewish Israelis such as Druze, Bahai, Bedouin, Christians and Muslims, who live in one of the most culturally diversified societies and the only true democracy in the Middle East. Like America, Israeli society is far from perfect, but let us deal honestly. By any yardstick you choose – educational opportunity, economic development, women and gay's rights, freedom of speech and assembly, legislative representation – Israel's minorities fare far better than any other country in the Middle East.[196]
​

(from the same source)

There's little doubt Arab citizens of Israel enjoy democratic rights unimaginable in Bahrain and other US supported Arab dictatorships; however, that bar is pretty low. Defining the Israeli state as a Jewish state does seem to inject a de jure element of apartheid into the equation:

"Many Arab citizens feel that the state, as well as society at large, not only actively limits them to second-class citizenship, but treats them as enemies, impacting their perception of the de jure versus de facto quality of their citizenship.[153]

"The joint document The Future Vision of the Palestinian Arabs in Israel, asserts: 'Defining the Israeli State as a Jewish State and exploiting democracy in the service of its Jewishness excludes us, and creates tension between us and the nature and essence of the State.'

"The document explains that by definition the 'Jewish State' concept is based on ethnically preferential treatment towards Jews enshrined in immigration (the Law of Return) and land policy (the Jewish National Fund), and calls for the establishment of minority rights protections enforced by an independent anti-discrimination commission."

Arab citizens of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sorry about that link.
It's not opening for me either.
I'll try to find another source.

We were talking about equality under the law , not feelings.
I'm sure many minorities in the US are feeling that they are a 2nd class citizens,it does not mean that the state law differentiate between them and other citizens.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I'm sorry,but this is just a blunt lie, and even thought your source 'Wake-up-america' screams objectivity, it must be misinformed ... (And for some reason doesn't load.)

I don't know what your source was trying to say ... What i do know is this:
There is absolutely no differentiation between citizens of Israel under the law.

So to your question, the Jews immigrating from other countries will have the same rights as native born Arabs or Christians or Buddhist or Jews or any other human being who has Israeli citizenship.

Arab citizens of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'll even tell you one better, Arabs rights in Israel is much better that of any Arab living in the neighboring countries.

(from the same source)

There's little doubt Arab citizens of Israel enjoy democratic rights unimaginable in Bahrain and other US supported Arab dictatorships; however, that bar is pretty low. Defining the Israeli state as a Jewish state does seem to inject a de jure element of apartheid into the equation:

"Many Arab citizens feel that the state, as well as society at large, not only actively limits them to second-class citizenship, but treats them as enemies, impacting their perception of the de jure versus de facto quality of their citizenship.[153]

"The joint document The Future Vision of the Palestinian Arabs in Israel, asserts: 'Defining the Israeli State as a Jewish State and exploiting democracy in the service of its Jewishness excludes us, and creates tension between us and the nature and essence of the State.'

"The document explains that by definition the 'Jewish State' concept is based on ethnically preferential treatment towards Jews enshrined in immigration (the Law of Return) and land policy (the Jewish National Fund), and calls for the establishment of minority rights protections enforced by an independent anti-discrimination commission."

Arab citizens of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sorry about that link.
It's not opening for me either.
I'll try to find another source.

We were talking about equality under the law , not feelings.
I'm sure many minorities in the US are feeling that they are a 2nd class citizens,it does not mean that the state law differentiate between them and other citizens.

We were talking about equality under the law...

You're joking, right?

 

[Wolverine1984]

Are you denying there are currently over 130 different nationalities recognized by the State of Israel for use in registering for an ID card? What other nation in the world recognizes "Arab" and "Unknown" but not "Israeli"?

Jonathon Cook is reporting on a group of Jews and Arabs who are petitioning the Israeli Supreme Court to be recognized as Israelis. Opponents argue against their petition by claiming it would threaten Israel's self-declared status as a Jewish state.

The Israeli government is waging a steadily escalating campaign to criminalize politically legitimate activities of Israeli-Palestinians. So far, no Jews living abroad have been subjected to similar tactics of apartheid. Maybe Chomsky should be worried?

You didn't answer my question

Dude what are you talking about ? What rights are granted under 'Nationality' privilege as you call it ?
What rights do Jews abroad Israel enjoy that the Israeli citizens Arabs do not ?

 

[georgephillip]

I'm sorry,but this is just a blunt lie, and even thought your source 'Wake-up-america' screams objectivity, it must be misinformed ... (And for some reason doesn't load.)

I don't know what your source was trying to say ... What i do know is this:
There is absolutely no differentiation between citizens of Israel under the law.

So to your question, the Jews immigrating from other countries will have the same rights as native born Arabs or Christians or Buddhist or Jews or any other human being who has Israeli citizenship.

Arab citizens of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'll even tell you one better, Arabs rights in Israel is much better that of any Arab living in the neighboring countries.

(from the same source)

There's little doubt Arab citizens of Israel enjoy democratic rights unimaginable in Bahrain and other US supported Arab dictatorships; however, that bar is pretty low. Defining the Israeli state as a Jewish state does seem to inject a de jure element of apartheid into the equation:

"Many Arab citizens feel that the state, as well as society at large, not only actively limits them to second-class citizenship, but treats them as enemies, impacting their perception of the de jure versus de facto quality of their citizenship.[153]

"The joint document The Future Vision of the Palestinian Arabs in Israel, asserts: 'Defining the Israeli State as a Jewish State and exploiting democracy in the service of its Jewishness excludes us, and creates tension between us and the nature and essence of the State.'

"The document explains that by definition the 'Jewish State' concept is based on ethnically preferential treatment towards Jews enshrined in immigration (the Law of Return) and land policy (the Jewish National Fund), and calls for the establishment of minority rights protections enforced by an independent anti-discrimination commission."

Arab citizens of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sorry about that link.
It's not opening for me either.
I'll try to find another source.

We were talking about equality under the law , not feelings.
I'm sure many minorities in the US are feeling that they are a 2nd class citizens,it does not mean that the state law differentiate between them and other citizens.

The 1% rule in America the same way they do everywhere else on this planet, including Israel.
Americans don't have segregated roads or schools, and, as far as I know, all Americans share the same nationality. One's religion isn't noted on US identity cards.

"Close to 4 million Palestinian Muslims and Christians are being subjected to Israeli laws that are different than the laws governing the 4.5 million Israeli Jews? Is this a 'democratically' elected apartheid, or not, that is the question?

"In the occupied West Bank there are 'Jewish Roads' and 'Non-Jewish Roads'?

"Israel issues national identify cards where the religion of the card holder is clearly shown in bold type?

"Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza drive vehicles with license plates that have different coloring than the cars driven by Israeli settlers?

Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza hold ID cards that are of different colors than the cards held by Israeli settlers?"

Quiz Yourself on 'Israeli Democracy'

 

[Wolverine1984]

There's little doubt Arab citizens of Israel enjoy democratic rights unimaginable in Bahrain and other US supported Arab dictatorships; however, that bar is pretty low. Defining the Israeli state as a Jewish state does seem to inject a de jure element of apartheid into the equation:

"Many Arab citizens feel that the state, as well as society at large, not only actively limits them to second-class citizenship, but treats them as enemies, impacting their perception of the de jure versus de facto quality of their citizenship.[153]

"The joint document The Future Vision of the Palestinian Arabs in Israel, asserts: 'Defining the Israeli State as a Jewish State and exploiting democracy in the service of its Jewishness excludes us, and creates tension between us and the nature and essence of the State.'

"The document explains that by definition the 'Jewish State' concept is based on ethnically preferential treatment towards Jews enshrined in immigration (the Law of Return) and land policy (the Jewish National Fund), and calls for the establishment of minority rights protections enforced by an independent anti-discrimination commission."

Arab citizens of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sorry about that link.
It's not opening for me either.
I'll try to find another source.

We were talking about equality under the law , not feelings.
I'm sure many minorities in the US are feeling that they are a 2nd class citizens,it does not mean that the state law differentiate between them and other citizens.

The 1% rule in America the same way they do everywhere else on this planet, including Israel.
Americans don't have segregated roads or schools, and, as far as I know, all Americans share the same nationality. One's religion isn't noted on US identity cards.

This is an Israeli passport given to all Israeli citizens:

As you can see there is no mention of 'One's religion' as you said or ethnicity,
And the Nationality is Israeli.

I don't know what are your sources for your information about noting religion in the Id card, but those sources are clearly wrong.

"Close to 4 million Palestinian Muslims and Christians are being subjected to Israeli laws that are different than the laws governing the 4.5 million Israeli Jews? Is this a 'democratically' elected apartheid, or not, that is the question?

What ? Please clarify what you are talking about ... What 4 million Palestinians ?
The ones in the Territories ? We are talking about citizens.

"In the occupied West Bank there are 'Jewish Roads' and 'Non-Jewish Roads'?

Again we are talking about Israeli citizens and people who are not citizens.
There are no 'Jewish roads' and 'Non Jewish roads' - there are 'Israeli citizen' roads and 'Not Israeli citizen roads' I agree the Idea is dumb and is discriminating against people who are not citizens , but all is not black and white as you paint it.
The separation of roads were implemented due to numerous incidents where Palestinians where shooting on Israeli vehicles so bypass roads were build.
The road separation happened because of security reasons, and not racism.

Israeli citizens Arab or otherwise are treated the same as Jewish citizens , and that is what i have said all along.

"Israel issues national identify cards where the religion of the card holder is clearly shown in bold type?

Look at the Passport.

"Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza drive vehicles with license plates that have different coloring than the cars driven by Israeli settlers?

All non Israeli registered vehicles have different coloring license plates, like in any other country. What's the problem here ?

Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza hold ID cards that are of different colors than the cards held by Israeli settlers?"

Our discussion is about Israeli citizens, not Palestinians in general.
My claim was that all Israeli citizens are equal under the law, while your claim was that Israel differentiate it's civilians by race. How is this argument relevant ?

Either way as the Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza are not citizens, they don't have the same ID card as the Palestinians(Or other people) who are citizens.


Quiz Yourself on 'Israeli Democracy'[/QUOTE]


Would it kill you for once to use an objective source of information ?
I'm not saying Pro Israeli , but how about objective...
Your source is "http://www.palestineremembered.com/" how objective can it be ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

We were talking about equality under the law , not feelings.
I'm sure many minorities in the US are feeling that they are a 2nd class citizens,it does not mean that the state law differentiate between them and other citizens.

The 1% rule in America the same way they do everywhere else on this planet, including Israel.
Americans don't have segregated roads or schools, and, as far as I know, all Americans share the same nationality. One's religion isn't noted on US identity cards.

This is an Israeli passport given to all Israeli citizens:

As you can see there is no mention of 'One's religion' as you said or ethnicity,
And the Nationality is Israeli.

I don't know what are your sources for your information about noting religion in the Id card, but those sources are clearly wrong.



What ? Please clarify what you are talking about ... What 4 million Palestinians ?
The ones in the Territories ? We are talking about citizens.


Again we are talking about Israeli citizens and people who are not citizens.
There are no 'Jewish roads' and 'Non Jewish roads' - there are 'Israeli citizen' roads and 'Not Israeli citizen roads' I agree the Idea is dumb and is discriminating against people who are not citizens , but all is not black and white as you paint it.
The separation of roads were implemented due to numerous incidents where Palestinians where shooting on Israeli vehicles so bypass roads were build.
The road separation happened because of security reasons, and not racism.

Israeli citizens Arab or otherwise are treated the same as Jewish citizens , and that is what i have said all along.






Look at the Passport.

"Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza drive vehicles with license plates that have different coloring than the cars driven by Israeli settlers?

All non Israeli registered vehicles have different coloring license plates, like in any other country. What's the problem here ?

Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza hold ID cards that are of different colors than the cards held by Israeli settlers?"

Our discussion is about Israeli citizens, not Palestinians in general.
My claim was that all Israeli citizens are equal under the law, while your claim was that Israel differentiate it's civilians by race. How is this argument relevant ?

Either way as the Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza are not citizens, they don't have the same ID card as the Palestinians(Or other people) who are citizens.


Quiz Yourself on 'Israeli Democracy'

Would it kill you for once to use an objective source of information ?
I'm not saying Pro Israeli , but how about objective...
Your source is "http://www.palestineremembered.com/" how objective can it be ?[/QUOTE]

What sources would you consider objective?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpW409WOgwE]Israel's unwanted citizens - YouTube[/ame]

 

[georgephillip]

Are you denying there are currently over 130 different nationalities recognized by the State of Israel for use in registering for an ID card? What other nation in the world recognizes "Arab" and "Unknown" but not "Israeli"?

Jonathon Cook is reporting on a group of Jews and Arabs who are petitioning the Israeli Supreme Court to be recognized as Israelis. Opponents argue against their petition by claiming it would threaten Israel's self-declared status as a Jewish state.

The Israeli government is waging a steadily escalating campaign to criminalize politically legitimate activities of Israeli-Palestinians. So far, no Jews living abroad have been subjected to similar tactics of apartheid. Maybe Chomsky should be worried?

You didn't answer my question

Dude what are you talking about ? What rights are granted under 'Nationality' privilege as you call it ?
What rights do Jews abroad Israel enjoy that the Israeli citizens Arabs do not ?

How about building permits?
Why are Arab citizens denied permits to build on their land while Jews are not? According to PF's most recent video(#2816),30 percent of the citizens of Lod (Arabs) haven't received a building permit in the last ten years while Jews have faced no such discrimination.

 

[georgephillip]

We were talking about equality under the law , not feelings.
I'm sure many minorities in the US are feeling that they are a 2nd class citizens,it does not mean that the state law differentiate between them and other citizens.

The 1% rule in America the same way they do everywhere else on this planet, including Israel.
Americans don't have segregated roads or schools, and, as far as I know, all Americans share the same nationality. One's religion isn't noted on US identity cards.

This is an Israeli passport given to all Israeli citizens:

As you can see there is no mention of 'One's religion' as you said or ethnicity,
And the Nationality is Israeli.

I don't know what are your sources for your information about noting religion in the Id card, but those sources are clearly wrong.



What ? Please clarify what you are talking about ... What 4 million Palestinians ?
The ones in the Territories ? We are talking about citizens.


Again we are talking about Israeli citizens and people who are not citizens.
There are no 'Jewish roads' and 'Non Jewish roads' - there are 'Israeli citizen' roads and 'Not Israeli citizen roads' I agree the Idea is dumb and is discriminating against people who are not citizens , but all is not black and white as you paint it.
The separation of roads were implemented due to numerous incidents where Palestinians where shooting on Israeli vehicles so bypass roads were build.
The road separation happened because of security reasons, and not racism.

Israeli citizens Arab or otherwise are treated the same as Jewish citizens , and that is what i have said all along.






Look at the Passport.

"Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza drive vehicles with license plates that have different coloring than the cars driven by Israeli settlers?

All non Israeli registered vehicles have different coloring license plates, like in any other country. What's the problem here ?

Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza hold ID cards that are of different colors than the cards held by Israeli settlers?"

Our discussion is about Israeli citizens, not Palestinians in general.
My claim was that all Israeli citizens are equal under the law, while your claim was that Israel differentiate it's civilians by race. How is this argument relevant ?

Either way as the Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza are not citizens, they don't have the same ID card as the Palestinians(Or other people) who are citizens.


Quiz Yourself on 'Israeli Democracy'

Would it kill you for once to use an objective source of information ?
I'm not saying Pro Israeli , but how about objective...
Your source is "http://www.palestineremembered.com/" how objective can it be ?[/QUOTE]
"Nor can anyone serious maintain that the 1.3 million Arabs who live in Israel are equal citizens. With the exception of the right to vote and the right to stand for office, which was almost taken from some of their representatives this month, there is hardly a sphere in which they can be said to be citizens of a democracy. They are discriminated against in every realm of life, and they are excluded from the democratic public discourse. One of their newspapers was recently shut down for two years by the interior minister and a mass movement of the Arab population is under threat of being outlawed. "Democracy" doesn't seem to be the appropriate word here, either.

Even some of the new immigrants do not share in Israeli democracy. A soldier in the Israel Defense Forces named Michael Gorkin cannot become an Israeli citizen only because he is not a Jew.

"What's left? Democracy exists only for the state's (proven) Jewish residents. That is, for about 5.3 million people, half of the 10.6 million people who live here. They are the only intended beneficiaries of the rule of law, freedom of expression, civic freedoms, equality before the law and a fair and just legal system."

Any state that denies citizenship to one of its soldiers on the basis of religion is not democratic.

Half a democracy by Ha'aretz Daily

 

[docmauser1]

How about building permits?

Yeah! How'bout them illegal settlers?!

Why are Arab citizens denied permits to build on their land while Jews are not?

They have to have "land", obviously, first, but its a western concept they refuse to accept - "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth." Omar Ahmad, co-founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations. (CAIR), July, 1998.












According to PF's most recent video(#2816),30 percent of the citizens of Lod (Arabs) haven't received a building permit in the last ten years while Jews have faced no such discrimination.[/QUOTE]

 

[Wolverine1984]

The 1% rule in America the same way they do everywhere else on this planet, including Israel.
Americans don't have segregated roads or schools, and, as far as I know, all Americans share the same nationality. One's religion isn't noted on US identity cards.

This is an Israeli passport given to all Israeli citizens:

As you can see there is no mention of 'One's religion' as you said or ethnicity,
And the Nationality is Israeli.

I don't know what are your sources for your information about noting religion in the Id card, but those sources are clearly wrong.



What ? Please clarify what you are talking about ... What 4 million Palestinians ?
The ones in the Territories ? We are talking about citizens.


Again we are talking about Israeli citizens and people who are not citizens.
There are no 'Jewish roads' and 'Non Jewish roads' - there are 'Israeli citizen' roads and 'Not Israeli citizen roads' I agree the Idea is dumb and is discriminating against people who are not citizens , but all is not black and white as you paint it.
The separation of roads were implemented due to numerous incidents where Palestinians where shooting on Israeli vehicles so bypass roads were build.
The road separation happened because of security reasons, and not racism.

Israeli citizens Arab or otherwise are treated the same as Jewish citizens , and that is what i have said all along.






Look at the Passport.


All non Israeli registered vehicles have different coloring license plates, like in any other country. What's the problem here ?

Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza hold ID cards that are of different colors than the cards held by Israeli settlers?"

Our discussion is about Israeli citizens, not Palestinians in general.
My claim was that all Israeli citizens are equal under the law, while your claim was that Israel differentiate it's civilians by race. How is this argument relevant ?

Either way as the Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza are not citizens, they don't have the same ID card as the Palestinians(Or other people) who are citizens.


Quiz Yourself on 'Israeli Democracy'

Would it kill you for once to use an objective source of information ?
I'm not saying Pro Israeli , but how about objective...
Your source is "http://www.palestineremembered.com/" how objective can it be ?

"Nor can anyone serious maintain that the 1.3 million Arabs who live in Israel are equal citizens. With the exception of the right to vote and the right to stand for office, which was almost taken from some of their representatives this month, there is hardly a sphere in which they can be said to be citizens of a democracy. They are discriminated against in every realm of life, and they are excluded from the democratic public discourse. One of their newspapers was recently shut down for two years by the interior minister and a mass movement of the Arab population is under threat of being outlawed. "Democracy" doesn't seem to be the appropriate word here, either.

Even some of the new immigrants do not share in Israeli democracy. A soldier in the Israel Defense Forces named Michael Gorkin cannot become an Israeli citizen only because he is not a Jew.

"What's left? Democracy exists only for the state's (proven) Jewish residents. That is, for about 5.3 million people, half of the 10.6 million people who live here. They are the only intended beneficiaries of the rule of law, freedom of expression, civic freedoms, equality before the law and a fair and just legal system."

Any state that denies citizenship to one of its soldiers on the basis of religion is not democratic.

Half a democracy by Ha'aretz Daily

Again , you go on and on about Arab citizens being denied rights , but you don't specify what rights are being denied ...

You said before that because Arabs don't have Jewish Nationality they are not given the same rights, but I have yet to have seen any proof of that.

You have said that the religion of a person is written in the id card ,I have proven you are wrong about that.

About the solider: (I have tried to look for conformation of your claim about Michael Gorkin but didn't find anything about him.)
In addition, he or any other non Jewish soldier was not denied citizenship, like you imply he was not granted automatic citizenship and he will get his citizenship later. There is a big difference.
As i recall in the US if you volunteer for the army you are not immediately granted citizenship.

Interior Minister Avraham Poraz has begun to implement his promise to grant Israeli citizenship to the non-Jewish soldiers who have served for in the Israel Defense Forces at least 12 months.

Interior Minister Poraz grants citizenship to ten non-Jewish soldiers - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
12 months seems a very reasonable time frame.

Oh yes :

U.S. Soldier Denied Citizenship After 6 Yrs of Service
Just five days before Ekaterine Bautista planned to become an American citizen, she got a call from the federal government: Her swearing-in ceremony had been canceled pending further investigation.
Bautista was devastated. An illegal immigrant from Mexico, she had served six years in the U.S. military — including a 13-month tour of duty in Iraq

Ekaterine Bautista | Iraq war veteran may be denied citizenship - Los Angeles Times