Israel defends itself?

[The Rabbi]

LOL! What you're REALLY revealing is that the idea of conservative moral outrage is a joke if and when you're not outraged at the widespread death of innocent civilians including women and children simply because it's Palestinian women and children who are dying and Israelis who are doing the killing. If ANYTHING was to lend credence to the concept of your supposed moral outrage it would be if you actually stood up to take a moral stand regardless of who the victims were or from which side the violence came.

Here's the reality. An atrocity (or an atrocious act) is abhorrent regardless of who perpetrates it. You don't get the luxury of condemning one side while giving the other a pass and then get to proclaim yourself to be some kind of a moral agent. If you behave with moral indignation when innocent Israelis are killed, and then you make excuses when innocent Palestinians are killed in wholesale fashion, you're nothing but a hypocrite.

You're conflating accidental killings, which happen in war, with atrocities. You are not outraged that Hamas is not only targeting Israeli civilians but also putting their own civilians in danger to increase their propaganda value. That you are not outraged shows you are either pathetically stupid, a shit for brains jew hater, or a gross hypocrite Probably all of the above.

Are you a fool or an idiot? Maybe it's both. Labeling the killings as 'accidental' doesn't mean they were unintentional at all since depraved indifference is not recognized as a legitimate moral excuse. If you don't believe that, then perhaps you'll also take the side of the Russians in the downing of that civilian airliner if and when they say it was an accident.

Unlike you, I don't give Israel a pass for atrocities just because they have a history of being victimized by others. At this point, the Palestinians are the victims, and they have every right to defend themselves. I would say the exact same thing regardless of who the civilians were who found themselves in the cross hairs of a trigger-happy military and their civilian leaders who gave the orders. That includes American ones when they engage in heinous acts which have happened in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

Are you thoroughly stupid? Of course.
Israel deliberately does NOT target civilans. Some die mainly because Hamas puts them in harm's way. Which part of this are you not understanding?

 

[NYcarbineer]

You're conflating accidental killings, which happen in war, with atrocities. You are not outraged that Hamas is not only targeting Israeli civilians but also putting their own civilians in danger to increase their propaganda value. That you are not outraged shows you are either pathetically stupid, a shit for brains jew hater, or a gross hypocrite Probably all of the above.

Are you a fool or an idiot? Maybe it's both. Labeling the killings as 'accidental' doesn't mean they were unintentional at all since depraved indifference is not recognized as a legitimate moral excuse. If you don't believe that, then perhaps you'll also take the side of the Russians in the downing of that civilian airliner if and when they say it was an accident.

Unlike you, I don't give Israel a pass for atrocities just because they have a history of being victimized by others. At this point, the Palestinians are the victims, and they have every right to defend themselves. I would say the exact same thing regardless of who the civilians were who found themselves in the cross hairs of a trigger-happy military and their civilian leaders who gave the orders. That includes American ones when they engage in heinous acts which have happened in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

Are you thoroughly stupid? Of course.
Israel deliberately does NOT target civilans. Some die mainly because Hamas puts them in harm's way. Which part of this are you not understanding?

So any Hamas rocket that targets an area where any Israeli security force/military person might be, no matter how many civilians are also in the area,

can be justified on the same grounds.

 

[NYcarbineer]

One thing people should force through their thick skulls is that the Israelis are just one more group of Middle Eastern crazies. Don't confuse them with, say, Jewish-Americans...

There are thousands of "normal" Jewish-Americans who are now living in Israel.
They have a Hamas rocket with their morning coffee.
I'll bet you've never been to Israel.

That's what oppression wins you.

 

[The Rabbi]

Are you a fool or an idiot? Maybe it's both. Labeling the killings as 'accidental' doesn't mean they were unintentional at all since depraved indifference is not recognized as a legitimate moral excuse. If you don't believe that, then perhaps you'll also take the side of the Russians in the downing of that civilian airliner if and when they say it was an accident.

Unlike you, I don't give Israel a pass for atrocities just because they have a history of being victimized by others. At this point, the Palestinians are the victims, and they have every right to defend themselves. I would say the exact same thing regardless of who the civilians were who found themselves in the cross hairs of a trigger-happy military and their civilian leaders who gave the orders. That includes American ones when they engage in heinous acts which have happened in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

Are you thoroughly stupid? Of course.
Israel deliberately does NOT target civilans. Some die mainly because Hamas puts them in harm's way. Which part of this are you not understanding?

So any Hamas rocket that targets an area where any Israeli security force/military person might be, no matter how many civilians are also in the area,

can be justified on the same grounds.

No. Why would you think those are remotely similar?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Are you thoroughly stupid? Of course.
Israel deliberately does NOT target civilans. Some die mainly because Hamas puts them in harm's way. Which part of this are you not understanding?

So any Hamas rocket that targets an area where any Israeli security force/military person might be, no matter how many civilians are also in the area,

can be justified on the same grounds.

No. Why would you think those are remotely similar?

Because they are exactly the same.

 

[Mustang]

You're conflating accidental killings, which happen in war, with atrocities. You are not outraged that Hamas is not only targeting Israeli civilians but also putting their own civilians in danger to increase their propaganda value. That you are not outraged shows you are either pathetically stupid, a shit for brains jew hater, or a gross hypocrite Probably all of the above.

Are you a fool or an idiot? Maybe it's both. Labeling the killings as 'accidental' doesn't mean they were unintentional at all since depraved indifference is not recognized as a legitimate moral excuse. If you don't believe that, then perhaps you'll also take the side of the Russians in the downing of that civilian airliner if and when they say it was an accident.

Unlike you, I don't give Israel a pass for atrocities just because they have a history of being victimized by others. At this point, the Palestinians are the victims, and they have every right to defend themselves. I would say the exact same thing regardless of who the civilians were who found themselves in the cross hairs of a trigger-happy military and their civilian leaders who gave the orders. That includes American ones when they engage in heinous acts which have happened in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

Are you thoroughly stupid? Of course.
Israel deliberately does NOT target civilans. Some die mainly because Hamas puts them in harm's way. Which part of this are you not understanding?

What a crock. Unless you can specifically cite evidence to back up that claim, at best it's an attempt to gloss over careless collateral damage. But it's not even relevant since armies and militaries have been hiding munitions and the weapons of war everyplace from hospitals to churches in an effort to keep it from being discovered and/or destroyed. That's not a license to engage in long distance air strikes or artillery shelling of suspected areas. If Israel was REALLY trying to prevent civilian casualties, they could send in ground forces which could be considerably more circumspect about their targets.

 

[Ibentoken]

Blog: To the last drop of the blood of others

 

[The Rabbi]

So any Hamas rocket that targets an area where any Israeli security force/military person might be, no matter how many civilians are also in the area,

can be justified on the same grounds.

No. Why would you think those are remotely similar?

Because they are exactly the same.

They arent remotely similar. ONlyan idiot wouldnt be able to distinguish them. Then again...

 

[The Rabbi]

Are you a fool or an idiot? Maybe it's both. Labeling the killings as 'accidental' doesn't mean they were unintentional at all since depraved indifference is not recognized as a legitimate moral excuse. If you don't believe that, then perhaps you'll also take the side of the Russians in the downing of that civilian airliner if and when they say it was an accident.

Unlike you, I don't give Israel a pass for atrocities just because they have a history of being victimized by others. At this point, the Palestinians are the victims, and they have every right to defend themselves. I would say the exact same thing regardless of who the civilians were who found themselves in the cross hairs of a trigger-happy military and their civilian leaders who gave the orders. That includes American ones when they engage in heinous acts which have happened in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

Are you thoroughly stupid? Of course.
Israel deliberately does NOT target civilans. Some die mainly because Hamas puts them in harm's way. Which part of this are you not understanding?

What a crock. Unless you can specifically cite evidence to back up that claim, at best it's an attempt to gloss over careless collateral damage. But it's not even relevant since armies and militaries have been hiding munitions and the weapons of war everyplace from hospitals to churches in an effort to keep it from being discovered and/or destroyed. That's not a license to engage in long distance air strikes or artillery shelling of suspected areas. If Israel was REALLY trying to prevent civilian casualties, they could send in ground forces which could be considerably more circumspect about their targets.

Idiot. I posted proof.
Of course any proof I post will be dismissed as lies by Israel, right?

 

[Mustang]

Are you thoroughly stupid? Of course.
Israel deliberately does NOT target civilans. Some die mainly because Hamas puts them in harm's way. Which part of this are you not understanding?

So any Hamas rocket that targets an area where any Israeli security force/military person might be, no matter how many civilians are also in the area,

can be justified on the same grounds.

No. Why would you think those are remotely similar?

Your one-sided hypocritical fascist morality is peaking out from underneath your Medieval tunic.

 

[dannyboys]

Before I start in on this thread, let me preface it by mentioning a variation of an old saying:

"We won the battle, but lost the war."​

Struggles and armed conflicts aren't just fought on a battlefield. They're fought in the court of public opinion too. In case anyone needs a history lesson on that front, it would behoove them to recall the American Civil Rights struggle. It was news images of water cannons and German Shepherd police dogs being unleashed on peaceful Black demonstrators which ultimately turned American public opinion against the gov'ts of the American South in the early 1960s. Israel faces a similar PR disaster despite the fact that most of these kind of reports don't get much airtime in the USA.

In truth, the story below isn't even the one I was looking for. I saw a report this morning on CNN about a 3 year old Palestinian child who was wrapped in bandages in a hospital. Obviously, the story below is from last month.

A Palestinian child, 7 years old, Ali Abed al-Awour, passed away last night as a result of injuries caused by an Israeli airstrike last Wednesday.

Palestinian sources reported that the child was with his uncle, Muhammad Ahmad al-Awour, on a motorcycle, when the Israeli airplane striked in the al-Sudanyeh neighborhood, northern Gaza. The Israeli army claimed that the uncle was a leader of Hamas, responsible for firing rockets to southern Israel. However, al-Awour's family said he had gone out to get food for dinner when he was killed.

This attack caused the immediate death of the uncle, 30 years old, and two other people were injured. One of them was Ali al-Awour, who passed away yesterday in a hospital in Gaza.

7-year old dies in Gaza 3 days after being injured in an Israeli airstrike

The POINT is clear as long as you're not too obtuse to see it or too partisan to acknowledge it. When a militarily far more powerful foe launches a military assault on a weaker opponent in the name of self-defense, it better be careful regarding its targets and the scale of its assault, or it's going to look like plain old brutality.

While I know that there are a lot of Israel supporter who are unapologetic regarding these assaults, at some point you have to ask yourself if it's doing more harm than good to the cause if it creates widespread sympathy for the Palestinians in the court of world public opinion in the process.

But this thread is not meant so much to be about Israel versus the Palestinians and who's right, or who's MORE right. This thread is meant to be about what's in America's interest. You see, the Israelis are using weapons systems that WE supplied to them to launch these military campaigns. Think how that makes Arabs view us when they see dead children at the hands of weapons we supplied to the people who are using the weapons against them. Think that might create a terrorism problem for us in the process?

Time for some facts:
The Arabs and the Jews have been fighting each other for CENTURIES!
The Jews have ALWAYS won. The Arabs put in with the Germans in two world wars hoping that if they couldn't defeat the Jews the Germans would when they could not. WRONG! TWICE!
You can never underestimate the Arab's capacity for continually fucking up.
As a sort of consolation prize the UN (League of Nations) seeded what is now the state of Israel to the jews. More than a consolation the message to every Arab was "you're a bunch of sand monkeys who put in with Hitler against the rest of the world and now you will fucking PAY!"
Which is what the sand monkeys are doing now and will continue to do forever.
Not to worry. The Arabs will be living like sand monkeys and the Jews will be enjoying their crops and shade for the rest of time. That's the way it is.

 

[Contumacious]

You're conflating accidental killings, which happen in war, with atrocities. You are not outraged that Hamas is not only targeting Israeli civilians but also putting their own civilians in danger to increase their propaganda value. That you are not outraged shows you are either pathetically stupid, a shit for brains jew hater, or a gross hypocrite Probably all of the above.

Are you a fool or an idiot? Maybe it's both. Labeling the killings as 'accidental' doesn't mean they were unintentional at all since depraved indifference is not recognized as a legitimate moral excuse. If you don't believe that, then perhaps you'll also take the side of the Russians in the downing of that civilian airliner if and when they say it was an accident.

Unlike you, I don't give Israel a pass for atrocities just because they have a history of being victimized by others. At this point, the Palestinians are the victims, and they have every right to defend themselves. I would say the exact same thing regardless of who the civilians were who found themselves in the cross hairs of a trigger-happy military and their civilian leaders who gave the orders. That includes American ones when they engage in heinous acts which have happened in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

Are you thoroughly stupid? Of course.
Israel deliberately does NOT target civilans. Some die mainly because Hamas puts them in harm's way. Which part of this are you not understanding?

Menachem Begin's Terrorist Emblem

King David Hotel bombing

The King David Hotel bombing was an attack carried out on Monday July 22, 1946 by the militant right-wing Zionist underground organization, the Irgun, on the British administrative headquarters for Palestine, which was housed in the southern wing[1] of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem.[2][3][4] 91 people of various nationalities were killed and 46 were injured.[5]

91 people were killed, most of them being staff of the hotel or Secretariat: 21 were first-rank government officials; 49 were second-rank clerks, typists and messengers, junior members of the Secretariat, employees of the hotel and canteen workers; 13 were soldiers; 3 policemen; and 5 were members of the public.


The Zionut's Motto

"when a zionut does it, it means its not a crime"

 

[Mustang]

No. Why would you think those are remotely similar?

Your one-sided hypocritical fascist morality is peaking out from underneath your Medieval tunic.

Thats incoherent ranting. Even for you.

Your jackboots fit Nazirella. That's not my fault. I just call 'em like I see 'em.

 

[The Rabbi]

Menachem Begin's Terrorist Emblem

King David Hotel bombing

The King David Hotel bombing was an attack carried out on Monday July 22, 1946 by the militant right-wing Zionist underground organization, the Irgun, on the British administrative headquarters for Palestine, which was housed in the southern wing[1] of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem.[2][3][4] 91 people of various nationalities were killed and 46 were injured.[5]

91 people were killed, most of them being staff of the hotel or Secretariat: 21 were first-rank government officials; 49 were second-rank clerks, typists and messengers, junior members of the Secretariat, employees of the hotel and canteen workers; 13 were soldiers; 3 policemen; and 5 were members of the public.


The Zionut's Motto

"when a zionut does it, it means its not a crime"

Constipation's symbol:

I knew it - you fantasize, correctly, that I have a big bulge in my pants.

How many gay websites did you cruise to get that picture?

..

You have a bulge in your pants from a bag. All I had to do was search for "Contumacious symbol" and that came up.

 

[The Rabbi]

Your one-sided hypocritical fascist morality is peaking out from underneath your Medieval tunic.

Thats incoherent ranting. Even for you.

Your jackboots fit Nazirella. That's not my fault. I just call 'em like I see 'em.

You are a mouthbreathing idiot. You see nothing except what your Aryan masters want you to see.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Before I start in on this thread, let me preface it by mentioning a variation of an old saying:

"We won the battle, but lost the war."​

Struggles and armed conflicts aren't just fought on a battlefield. They're fought in the court of public opinion too. In case anyone needs a history lesson on that front, it would behoove them to recall the American Civil Rights struggle. It was news images of water cannons and German Shepherd police dogs being unleashed on peaceful Black demonstrators which ultimately turned American public opinion against the gov'ts of the American South in the early 1960s. Israel faces a similar PR disaster despite the fact that most of these kind of reports don't get much airtime in the USA.

In truth, the story below isn't even the one I was looking for. I saw a report this morning on CNN about a 3 year old Palestinian child who was wrapped in bandages in a hospital. Obviously, the story below is from last month.

A Palestinian child, 7 years old, Ali Abed al-Awour, passed away last night as a result of injuries caused by an Israeli airstrike last Wednesday.

Palestinian sources reported that the child was with his uncle, Muhammad Ahmad al-Awour, on a motorcycle, when the Israeli airplane striked in the al-Sudanyeh neighborhood, northern Gaza. The Israeli army claimed that the uncle was a leader of Hamas, responsible for firing rockets to southern Israel. However, al-Awour's family said he had gone out to get food for dinner when he was killed.

This attack caused the immediate death of the uncle, 30 years old, and two other people were injured. One of them was Ali al-Awour, who passed away yesterday in a hospital in Gaza.

7-year old dies in Gaza 3 days after being injured in an Israeli airstrike

The POINT is clear as long as you're not too obtuse to see it or too partisan to acknowledge it. When a militarily far more powerful foe launches a military assault on a weaker opponent in the name of self-defense, it better be careful regarding its targets and the scale of its assault, or it's going to look like plain old brutality.

While I know that there are a lot of Israel supporter who are unapologetic regarding these assaults, at some point you have to ask yourself if it's doing more harm than good to the cause if it creates widespread sympathy for the Palestinians in the court of world public opinion in the process.

But this thread is not meant so much to be about Israel versus the Palestinians and who's right, or who's MORE right. This thread is meant to be about what's in America's interest. You see, the Israelis are using weapons systems that WE supplied to them to launch these military campaigns. Think how that makes Arabs view us when they see dead children at the hands of weapons we supplied to the people who are using the weapons against them. Think that might create a terrorism problem for us in the process?

Perhaps the terrorists at Hamas should stop lobbing missiles into Israel.. daily... and then hiding behind civilians.

I have no sympathy for these people... they allow this shit to go on day in and day out while the Hamas nutters get them killed.

 

[TemplarKormac]

By all means let's be fair. The Israelis should shut down their iron dome system so their dead can equal the raghead dead.

Your post is nonsensical.

To begin with the Iron Dome system is TRULY a defensive weapons, unlike the weapon systems used to attack Gaza. Secondly, Iron Dome can NOT be used AS an offensive weapon. So, it's not even relevant to this thread.

Which leads me to the following question: Why do conservatives post so much irrelevant BS?

My final point is this: Your post is not only silly, it's racist, as well.

This post has me wondering.

How much do really know about the Israeli Palestinians conflict? First of all the Iron Dome system is purely defensive. It shoots down incoming rockets from Palestine and Gaza. So, I guess we should ask them to shut it down so the two sides can be on a level playing field eh? Perhaps you should read the post before commenting on it.

And why do you liberals post so much Palestinian propaganda? And yes, Hamas is a collective of rag heads. Cry racism all you wish, but it doesn't change the fact that Israel is defending itself, and Hamas is defending itself by standing innocent civilians in the line of fire.

Please feel free to debate me on the conflict. I have more material in my room on the subject than you could ever hope to find in a Google search.

 

[TemplarKormac]

So any Hamas rocket that targets an area where any Israeli security force/military person might be, no matter how many civilians are also in the area,

can be justified on the same grounds.

No. Why would you think those are remotely similar?

Your one-sided hypocritical fascist morality is peaking out from underneath your Medieval tunic.

Your name calling indicates your lack of an argument. Do you know who you are defending? Hamas has a well documented history of intentionally setting up bases of operations in Hospitals, Schools, and Mosques-- in hope of getting innocent civilians killed if they are bombed into oblivion. Seriously? Why are you people defending a bunch of terrorists with no regard for human life?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Are you a fool or an idiot? Maybe it's both. Labeling the killings as 'accidental' doesn't mean they were unintentional at all since depraved indifference is not recognized as a legitimate moral excuse. If you don't believe that, then perhaps you'll also take the side of the Russians in the downing of that civilian airliner if and when they say it was an accident.

Unlike you, I don't give Israel a pass for atrocities just because they have a history of being victimized by others. At this point, the Palestinians are the victims, and they have every right to defend themselves. I would say the exact same thing regardless of who the civilians were who found themselves in the cross hairs of a trigger-happy military and their civilian leaders who gave the orders. That includes American ones when they engage in heinous acts which have happened in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

Are you thoroughly stupid? Of course.
Israel deliberately does NOT target civilans. Some die mainly because Hamas puts them in harm's way. Which part of this are you not understanding?

What a crock. Unless you can specifically cite evidence to back up that claim, at best it's an attempt to gloss over careless collateral damage. But it's not even relevant since armies and militaries have been hiding munitions and the weapons of war everyplace from hospitals to churches in an effort to keep it from being discovered and/or destroyed. That's not a license to engage in long distance air strikes or artillery shelling of suspected areas. If Israel was REALLY trying to prevent civilian casualties, they could send in ground forces which could be considerably more circumspect about their targets.

All too easy:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vHDyuSTneA]Cast Lead Video: Hamas Terrorist uses Children as Human Shield - YouTube[/ame]

 

[TemplarKormac]

Are you a fool or an idiot? Maybe it's both. Labeling the killings as 'accidental' doesn't mean they were unintentional at all since depraved indifference is not recognized as a legitimate moral excuse. If you don't believe that, then perhaps you'll also take the side of the Russians in the downing of that civilian airliner if and when they say it was an accident.

Unlike you, I don't give Israel a pass for atrocities just because they have a history of being victimized by others. At this point, the Palestinians are the victims, and they have every right to defend themselves. I would say the exact same thing regardless of who the civilians were who found themselves in the cross hairs of a trigger-happy military and their civilian leaders who gave the orders. That includes American ones when they engage in heinous acts which have happened in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

Are you thoroughly stupid? Of course.
Israel deliberately does NOT target civilans. Some die mainly because Hamas puts them in harm's way. Which part of this are you not understanding?

Menachem Begin's Terrorist Emblem

King David Hotel bombing

The King David Hotel bombing was an attack carried out on Monday July 22, 1946 by the militant right-wing Zionist underground organization, the Irgun, on the British administrative headquarters for Palestine, which was housed in the southern wing[1] of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem.[2][3][4] 91 people of various nationalities were killed and 46 were injured.[5]

91 people were killed, most of them being staff of the hotel or Secretariat: 21 were first-rank government officials; 49 were second-rank clerks, typists and messengers, junior members of the Secretariat, employees of the hotel and canteen workers; 13 were soldiers; 3 policemen; and 5 were members of the public.


The Zionut's Motto

"when a zionut does it, it means its not a crime"

Hamas motto:

"We love death more than they love life."