Israel defends itself?

[percysunshine]

Let's use children as a political tool. What a great idea.

.

 

[georgephillip]

George, why is it hamas would not accept the cease fire. If they cared about their own they would have. But no, it is Israel's fault, right?

Hamas rejected the cease fire because it didn't address the belligerent occupation Israel imposes on Gaza. There's little to be gained with a "quiet for quiet" exchange as long as Jews control the airspace, coastal waters, and (surface) land borders with Gaza. As hard as it may be to believe, things could get much worse if Israel decides to transfer the 1.5 million Gazans beyond the borders of Greater Israel.

 

[Contumacious]

Let's use children as a political tool. What a great idea.

.

That's the tyrants' modus operandi.

Even though children lived in the Davidians compound it was Koresh's fault that Clinton incinerated them alive.

.

 

[Indeependent]

George, why is it hamas would not accept the cease fire. If they cared about their own they would have. But no, it is Israel's fault, right?

Hamas rejected the cease fire because it didn't address the belligerent occupation Israel imposes on Gaza. There's little to be gained with a "quiet for quiet" exchange as long as Jews control the airspace, coastal waters, and (surface) land borders with Gaza. As hard as it may be to believe, things could get much worse if Israel decides to transfer the 1.5 million Gazans beyond the borders of Greater Israel.

Try a map once in a while.
The ONLY place they can go is Egypt and Egypt DOESN'T WANT THEM.
Not even the CHILLLLLDREN.

 

[percysunshine]

Let's use children as a political tool. What a great idea.

.

That's the tyrants' modus operandi.

Even though children lived in the Davidians compound it was Koresh's fault that Clinton incinerated them alive.

.

Can you repeat the part where Koresh was launching missiles into Dallas?

Other than that, the analogy works just fine.

.

 

[Mustang]

I

No one can live peacefully with a neighbor who vows to kill you, and will do so at any opportunity. Israel isn't digging tunnels into Gaza so they can kill Palestinians. Israel isn't launching random rocket attacks against Gaza. None of those 10,000 plus missiles that the Palestinians have amassed, are defensive weapons.

However, the main element of this discussion, is the killing of children. Israel has given ample warning of where they intended to strike, and where they intended to assualt. The Palestinians who did not take their children out of those areas, are the only ones to blame for their children getting hurt.

Yeah, Israel doesn't dig tunnels. Know why? Because they have sophistocated military planes and helicopters that control the skies.

Maybe you might benefit from doing some research. Look up how many Israelis have been killed (and wounded) from years of rocket launches. The number is surprising low mostly because those rockets aren't very sophistocated to begin with. I'm not defending it. I'm just saying that there's a lightyear's worth of difference between the weapons both sides use.

As far as Israel's so-called warnings are concerned, I'd like to see one or hear one. Regardless, it's the height of insanity to try to blame the Palestinians for the deaths of their own children simply because they just so happened to be where the bombs or artillery landed.

If the dumbass Palestinians would cease attempting to kill Iraelis, they would need not fear any of Israel's super weapons.

Any parent who keeps their children in a war zone, likely to be bombed, is fully responsible for the safety of those children. Those children didn't just happen to be there, they were kept their by their parents, or possibly by Hamas fighters. There are large sections of Gaza that are not being targeted, or invaded.

You must be a fool. Where do you think these people are supposed to go? They live crowded into areas with no options of jumping into an SUV to stay in some motel somewhere.

One of the things I hear conservatives constantly say is that they have hard and fast principles, and that they believe in moral absolutes.

Consequently, what >I< want to know is where the hell is the moral outrage at IDF forces targeting and killing innocent civilians including women and children? Why aren't conservatives condemning this despite the fact that they support Israel? Or am I supposed to believe that the only way to support Israel is to defend this kind of military action as well?

 

[The Rabbi]

I

Yeah, Israel doesn't dig tunnels. Know why? Because they have sophistocated military planes and helicopters that control the skies.

Maybe you might benefit from doing some research. Look up how many Israelis have been killed (and wounded) from years of rocket launches. The number is surprising low mostly because those rockets aren't very sophistocated to begin with. I'm not defending it. I'm just saying that there's a lightyear's worth of difference between the weapons both sides use.

As far as Israel's so-called warnings are concerned, I'd like to see one or hear one. Regardless, it's the height of insanity to try to blame the Palestinians for the deaths of their own children simply because they just so happened to be where the bombs or artillery landed.

If the dumbass Palestinians would cease attempting to kill Iraelis, they would need not fear any of Israel's super weapons.

Any parent who keeps their children in a war zone, likely to be bombed, is fully responsible for the safety of those children. Those children didn't just happen to be there, they were kept their by their parents, or possibly by Hamas fighters. There are large sections of Gaza that are not being targeted, or invaded.

You must be a fool. Where do you think these people are supposed to go? They live crowded into areas with no options of jumping into an SUV to stay in some motel somewhere.

One of the things I hear conservatives constantly say is that they have hard and fast principles, and that they believe in moral absolutes.

Consequently, what >I< want to know is where the hell is the moral outrage at IDF forces targeting and killing innocent civilians including women and children? Why aren't conservatives condemning this despite the fact that they support Israel? Or am I supposed to believe that the only way to support Israel is to defend this kind of military action as well?

The |DF is specifically NOT targeting women and children. WOmen and children are being killed because Hamas is targeting them, putting them into areas they know will make attractive targets for the Israelis.

 

[bripat9643]

George, why is it hamas would not accept the cease fire. If they cared about their own they would have. But no, it is Israel's fault, right?

Hamas rejected the cease fire because it didn't address the belligerent occupation Israel imposes on Gaza. There's little to be gained with a "quiet for quiet" exchange as long as Jews control the airspace, coastal waters, and (surface) land borders with Gaza. As hard as it may be to believe, things could get much worse if Israel decides to transfer the 1.5 million Gazans beyond the borders of Greater Israel.

You have to be delusional if you think Israel is going to give a nest of bloodthirsty pit vipers like Hamas free reign to import weapons. Hamas is a gang of murderers. So long as they behave like criminals, they will be treated like criminals. Israel would have to be insane to do as you suggest.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Who is it up to us to say rather israel can defend its self or not?

As long as they have a military of course they can!

 

[georgephillip]

George, why is it hamas would not accept the cease fire. If they cared about their own they would have. But no, it is Israel's fault, right?

Hamas rejected the cease fire because it didn't address the belligerent occupation Israel imposes on Gaza. There's little to be gained with a "quiet for quiet" exchange as long as Jews control the airspace, coastal waters, and (surface) land borders with Gaza. As hard as it may be to believe, things could get much worse if Israel decides to transfer the 1.5 million Gazans beyond the borders of Greater Israel.

Try a map once in a while.
The ONLY place they can go is Egypt and Egypt DOESN'T WANT THEM.
Not even the CHILLLLLDREN.

Does your map show Gaza as part of Israel?

 

[georgephillip]

George, why is it hamas would not accept the cease fire. If they cared about their own they would have. But no, it is Israel's fault, right?

Hamas rejected the cease fire because it didn't address the belligerent occupation Israel imposes on Gaza. There's little to be gained with a "quiet for quiet" exchange as long as Jews control the airspace, coastal waters, and (surface) land borders with Gaza. As hard as it may be to believe, things could get much worse if Israel decides to transfer the 1.5 million Gazans beyond the borders of Greater Israel.

You have to be delusional if you think Israel is going to give a nest of bloodthirsty pit vipers like Hamas free reign to import weapons. Hamas is a gang of murderers. So long as they behave like criminals, they will be treated like criminals. Israel would have to be insane to do as you suggest.

You would have to be more ignorant of Israel's illegal belligerent occupation of Gaza than you are of most things to confuse Hamas's resistance to the Jews delusion that they are entitled to all the land between the River and the sea with criminality.

If Jews want peace, they should end their illegal occupation of Palestine.

Do you think that's likely?

Sure you are

 

[Mustang]

If the dumbass Palestinians would cease attempting to kill Iraelis, they would need not fear any of Israel's super weapons.

Any parent who keeps their children in a war zone, likely to be bombed, is fully responsible for the safety of those children. Those children didn't just happen to be there, they were kept their by their parents, or possibly by Hamas fighters. There are large sections of Gaza that are not being targeted, or invaded.

You must be a fool. Where do you think these people are supposed to go? They live crowded into areas with no options of jumping into an SUV to stay in some motel somewhere.

One of the things I hear conservatives constantly say is that they have hard and fast principles, and that they believe in moral absolutes.

Consequently, what >I< want to know is where the hell is the moral outrage at IDF forces targeting and killing innocent civilians including women and children? Why aren't conservatives condemning this despite the fact that they support Israel? Or am I supposed to believe that the only way to support Israel is to defend this kind of military action as well?

The |DF is specifically NOT targeting women and children. WOmen and children are being killed because Hamas is targeting them, putting them into areas they know will make attractive targets for the Israelis.

What your engaging in is commonly known as rationalization. What you're saying is that if and when Israeli civilians are killed at the hands of Palestinians, it's the fault of Hamas, but when Palestinian civilians are killed at the hands of Israeli's it's also the fault of Hamas. It's a semantic exercise which allows one side to avoid any and all moral culpability. It's also total BS.

 

[georgephillip]

Jews are doing some of their best work this morning (7/21/14) with more indiscriminate shelling of the civilian population of Gaza

"l-Beltaji Street, off the main road in Shujai'iya, is a scene of utter devastation – the site of Israel's bloodiest assault in almost two weeks of fighting in the coastal strip.

"An ambulance sat on shot-out tyres, shrapnel punched through its sides. A charred car lay flattened as if by a giant hand. Smoke rose from one end of the street in a dark billowing curtain.

"Fallen trees, tangled electricity cables and drifts of rubble covered the road, smashed, chopped and torn apart by Israeli shells and bombs that slammed into this Gaza City district at a rate of one every five seconds on Saturday night and the early hours of Sunday.

"A body was carried out of a ruined house, then a second and a third – seven in total from buildings within a hundred metres of each other during a brief agreed lull in the fighting to evacuate the dead and wounded.

"A little further along, bodies lay in the street where they had fallen, mostly scorched figures – one still in a yellow dressing gown – others missing limbs.

"'Come out it's safe,' rescue officials shouted as they picked their way along the street."

Israel kills scores in Gaza City suburb in deadliest assault of offensive so far | World news | The Guardian

 

[Claudette]

If the dumbass Palestinians would cease attempting to kill Iraelis, they would need not fear any of Israel's super weapons.

Any parent who keeps their children in a war zone, likely to be bombed, is fully responsible for the safety of those children. Those children didn't just happen to be there, they were kept their by their parents, or possibly by Hamas fighters. There are large sections of Gaza that are not being targeted, or invaded.

You must be a fool. Where do you think these people are supposed to go? They live crowded into areas with no options of jumping into an SUV to stay in some motel somewhere.

One of the things I hear conservatives constantly say is that they have hard and fast principles, and that they believe in moral absolutes.

Consequently, what >I< want to know is where the hell is the moral outrage at IDF forces targeting and killing innocent civilians including women and children? Why aren't conservatives condemning this despite the fact that they support Israel? Or am I supposed to believe that the only way to support Israel is to defend this kind of military action as well?

The |DF is specifically NOT targeting women and children. WOmen and children are being killed because Hamas is targeting them, putting them into areas they know will make attractive targets for the Israelis.

Of course they are. Its the MO now and always has been.

Get over it you bleeding hearts. People have been killed during fighting since the first battle was ever fought. How many did our bombs kill during WWII??

No army on Gods green earth could ever say that no civilians were killed during battle.

People die. Put on your big boy pants and deal with it.

 

[Mustang]

What the news is reporting is this: A small number of Israeli soldiers are being killed while a large number of Palestinians are being killed. There are reports that the Israelis have even shelled or bombed a hospital. So, who's terrorizing whom?

Obama calls for immediate truce as Gaza toll soars

 

[The Rabbi]

You must be a fool. Where do you think these people are supposed to go? They live crowded into areas with no options of jumping into an SUV to stay in some motel somewhere.

One of the things I hear conservatives constantly say is that they have hard and fast principles, and that they believe in moral absolutes.

Consequently, what >I< want to know is where the hell is the moral outrage at IDF forces targeting and killing innocent civilians including women and children? Why aren't conservatives condemning this despite the fact that they support Israel? Or am I supposed to believe that the only way to support Israel is to defend this kind of military action as well?

The |DF is specifically NOT targeting women and children. WOmen and children are being killed because Hamas is targeting them, putting them into areas they know will make attractive targets for the Israelis.

What your engaging in is commonly known as rationalization. What you're saying is that if and when Israeli civilians are killed at the hands of Palestinians, it's the fault of Hamas, but when Palestinian civilians are killed at the hands of Israeli's it's also the fault of Hamas. It's a semantic exercise which allows one side to avoid any and all moral culpability. It's also total BS.

No, What I am engaging in is commonly known as "the truth." The truth is that Israel attempts to avoid civilian targets while Hamas attempts to target civilans, on both sides. If they kill Israeli civilians, good. If they end up getting Palestinian civilians killed, that's also good because it makes Israel look bad.

But dont take my word for it. Take this guy's:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97y8HhonadQ]"the IDF did more to save civilians than any other army in the history of warfare" - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Mustang]

The |DF is specifically NOT targeting women and children. WOmen and children are being killed because Hamas is targeting them, putting them into areas they know will make attractive targets for the Israelis.

What your engaging in is commonly known as rationalization. What you're saying is that if and when Israeli civilians are killed at the hands of Palestinians, it's the fault of Hamas, but when Palestinian civilians are killed at the hands of Israeli's it's also the fault of Hamas. It's a semantic exercise which allows one side to avoid any and all moral culpability. It's also total BS.

No, What I am engaging in is commonly known as "the truth." The truth is that Israel attempts to avoid civilian targets while Hamas attempts to target civilans, on both sides. If they kill Israeli civilians, good. If they end up getting Palestinian civilians killed, that's also good because it makes Israel look bad.

But dont take my word for it. Take this guy's:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97y8HhonadQ]"the IDF did more to save civilians than any other army in the history of warfare" - YouTube[/ame]

LOL! What you're REALLY revealing is that the idea of conservative moral outrage is a joke if and when you're not outraged at the widespread death of innocent civilians including women and children simply because it's Palestinian women and children who are dying and Israelis who are doing the killing. If ANYTHING was to lend credence to the concept of your supposed moral outrage it would be if you actually stood up to take a moral stand regardless of who the victims were or from which side the violence came.

Here's the reality. An atrocity (or an atrocious act) is abhorrent regardless of who perpetrates it. You don't get the luxury of condemning one side while giving the other a pass and then get to proclaim yourself to be some kind of a moral agent. If you behave with moral indignation when innocent Israelis are killed, and then you make excuses when innocent Palestinians are killed in wholesale fashion, you're nothing but a hypocrite.

 

[The Rabbi]

What your engaging in is commonly known as rationalization. What you're saying is that if and when Israeli civilians are killed at the hands of Palestinians, it's the fault of Hamas, but when Palestinian civilians are killed at the hands of Israeli's it's also the fault of Hamas. It's a semantic exercise which allows one side to avoid any and all moral culpability. It's also total BS.

No, What I am engaging in is commonly known as "the truth." The truth is that Israel attempts to avoid civilian targets while Hamas attempts to target civilans, on both sides. If they kill Israeli civilians, good. If they end up getting Palestinian civilians killed, that's also good because it makes Israel look bad.

But dont take my word for it. Take this guy's:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97y8HhonadQ]"the IDF did more to save civilians than any other army in the history of warfare" - YouTube[/ame]

LOL! What you're REALLY revealing is that the idea of conservative moral outrage is a joke if and when you're not outraged at the widespread death of innocent civilians including women and children simply because it's Palestinian women and children who are dying and Israelis who are doing the killing. If ANYTHING was to lend credence to the concept of your supposed moral outrage it would be if you actually stood up to take a moral stand regardless of who the victims were or from which side the violence came.

Here's the reality. An atrocity (or an atrocious act) is abhorrent regardless of who perpetrates it. You don't get the luxury of condemning one side while giving the other a pass and then get to proclaim yourself to be some kind of a moral agent. If you behave with moral indignation when innocent Israelis are killed, and then you make excuses when innocent Palestinians are killed in wholesale fashion, you're nothing but a hypocrite.

You're conflating accidental killings, which happen in war, with atrocities. You are not outraged that Hamas is not only targeting Israeli civilians but also putting their own civilians in danger to increase their propaganda value. That you are not outraged shows you are either pathetically stupid, a shit for brains jew hater, or a gross hypocrite Probably all of the above.

 

[GHook93]

The Palestinians place missiles in schools, mosques, hospitals and apartment buildings. They specifically launch missiles from these sites making them targets. They gather children around missiles being launched so they will gain a PR victory if Israel takes out the site.

They hide amongst children and use these children as shields.

They want dead children, they specifically make it so there will be as many dead kids as possible!

Blame Hamas!

I just pray Israel finally has the ballz to finish the job, kill as many Palestinians as need be to knock out Hamas!

 

[Mustang]

No, What I am engaging in is commonly known as "the truth." The truth is that Israel attempts to avoid civilian targets while Hamas attempts to target civilans, on both sides. If they kill Israeli civilians, good. If they end up getting Palestinian civilians killed, that's also good because it makes Israel look bad.

But dont take my word for it. Take this guy's:
"the IDF did more to save civilians than any other army in the history of warfare" - YouTube

LOL! What you're REALLY revealing is that the idea of conservative moral outrage is a joke if and when you're not outraged at the widespread death of innocent civilians including women and children simply because it's Palestinian women and children who are dying and Israelis who are doing the killing. If ANYTHING was to lend credence to the concept of your supposed moral outrage it would be if you actually stood up to take a moral stand regardless of who the victims were or from which side the violence came.

Here's the reality. An atrocity (or an atrocious act) is abhorrent regardless of who perpetrates it. You don't get the luxury of condemning one side while giving the other a pass and then get to proclaim yourself to be some kind of a moral agent. If you behave with moral indignation when innocent Israelis are killed, and then you make excuses when innocent Palestinians are killed in wholesale fashion, you're nothing but a hypocrite.

You're conflating accidental killings, which happen in war, with atrocities. You are not outraged that Hamas is not only targeting Israeli civilians but also putting their own civilians in danger to increase their propaganda value. That you are not outraged shows you are either pathetically stupid, a shit for brains jew hater, or a gross hypocrite Probably all of the above.

Are you a fool or an idiot? Maybe it's both. Labeling the killings as 'accidental' doesn't mean they were unintentional at all since depraved indifference is not recognized as a legitimate moral excuse. If you don't believe that, then perhaps you'll also take the side of the Russians in the downing of that civilian airliner if and when they say it was an accident.

Unlike you, I don't give Israel a pass for atrocities just because they have a history of being victimized by others. At this point, the Palestinians are the victims, and they have every right to defend themselves. I would say the exact same thing regardless of who the civilians were who found themselves in the cross hairs of a trigger-happy military and their civilian leaders who gave the orders. That includes American ones when they engage in heinous acts which have happened in both Iraq and Afghanistan.