Israel To Make Dramatic Decisions

[Lipush]

Israel will offer 95% of the West Bank and Arab sections of East Jerusalem.

They will allow some refugees to return to Israel.

The West Bank is not Israel's to offer.

The only thing the Israeli's need to do in regards to the West Bank, is leave.

How can the Jews not belong in Judea?

When our fathers dremt about the homeland when they were tortured in Auschwitz, they didn't dream about Hertzliya and Be'er Sheva and Tel Aviv and Ashdod. They dremt about Jerusalem, and Bethlehem, and Hebron and Judea.

The state of Israel is nothing without these inheritences.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Israel will offer 95% of the West Bank and Arab sections of East Jerusalem.

They will allow some refugees to return to Israel.

The West Bank is not Israel's to offer.

The only thing the Israeli's need to do in regards to the West Bank, is leave.

How can the Jews not belong in Judea?

When our fathers dremt about the homeland when they were tortured in Auschwitz, they didn't dream about Hertzliya and Be'er Sheva and Tel Aviv and Ashdod. They dremt about Jerusalem, and Bethlehem, and Hebron and Judea.

The state of Israel is nothing without these inheritences.

I agree completely. Be'er Sheva is a Biblical city, though.

 

[toastman]

Israel will offer 95% of the West Bank and Arab sections of East Jerusalem.

They will allow some refugees to return to Israel.

The West Bank is not Israel's to offer.

The only thing the Israeli's need to do in regards to the West Bank, is leave.

Good luck with that

 

[Hoffstra]

How can the Jews not belong in Judea?

The issue isn't Jews living in the West Bank, Gaza, Japan, Berlin, or Cairo.

The issue is Israeli sovereignty, and Israel has no right to sovereignty over the West Bank.

Especially since the land is 82% Arab Muslim.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

How can the Jews not belong in Judea?

The issue isn't Jews living in the West Bank, Gaza, Japan, Berlin, or Cairo.

The issue is Israeli sovereignty, and Israel has no right to sovereignty over the West Bank.

Especially since the land is 82% Arab Muslim.

You are obviously new to this forum, so probably not as clued up as you should be. Read this, then you will realize that Israel has every right to sovereignty of Judea and Samaria.

Mandate For Palestine - The Legal Aspects of Jewish Rights​

 

[Lipush]

The West Bank is not Israel's to offer.

The only thing the Israeli's need to do in regards to the West Bank, is leave.

How can the Jews not belong in Judea?

When our fathers dremt about the homeland when they were tortured in Auschwitz, they didn't dream about Hertzliya and Be'er Sheva and Tel Aviv and Ashdod. They dremt about Jerusalem, and Bethlehem, and Hebron and Judea.

The state of Israel is nothing without these inheritences.

I agree completely. Be'er Sheva is a Biblical city, though.

Tell that to the snotty ones who believe southern Israel doesn't count

 

[Lipush]

How can the Jews not belong in Judea?

The issue isn't Jews living in the West Bank, Gaza, Japan, Berlin, or Cairo.

The issue is Israeli sovereignty, and Israel has no right to sovereignty over the West Bank.

Especially since the land is 82% Arab Muslim.

The Palestinian try to deny any connection the Jews have to those places. They simply said that any Jew sitting there is 'illegal settler'.

And the world is more than happy to adopt this thinking.

So who exactly is the one trying to own the place? when every Jew trying to settle in the old homeland's lands is automatically a theif?

Who is the 'racism' targeting, really?

 

[RoccoR]

Hoffstra; et al,

The issue is not about Israel wanting the West Bank. It is an "Albatross." The issue is about Israeli security and defensible borders.

How can the Jews not belong in Judea?

The issue isn't Jews living in the West Bank, Gaza, Japan, Berlin, or Cairo.

The issue is Israeli sovereignty, and Israel has no right to sovereignty over the West Bank.

Especially since the land is 82% Arab Muslim.

(COMMENT)

• It cannot be overlooked that the Arab League and the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) have an established practice of periodically launching attacks against Israel.
  
• It cannot be denied that both the major government bodies that claim to represent the HoAP believe that the entire State of Israel is "Occupied Territory" --- not just the discussion of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. As the Palestinian National Authority puts it:
  
  
  • Article 1. Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the greater Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.
    
  • Article 2: Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.

Granted, there are factions within Israel that make some ancient claim to the West Bank. And that mindset has to be suppressed. The League of Nations/UN never intended to allow the Jewish Agency to establish a homeland over the entire region. The intent was to establish a safe have for the Jewish people to protect them from further persecution by unscrupulous populations and leaderships (including both European and Arabian). And while the forward thinkers of the early 20th Century started this project early on, it wasn't actually established until after WWII; a time in which the Jewish People faced the Holocaust.

Yet again, the Allied Powers and the UN, face a critical moment in time. They face a people, the HoAP, which wants to again persecute the Jewish People. The world is faced with a people that have proclaimed:

• There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
• Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.

The Jewish People did what they were suppose to do according to General Assembly Resolution 181(II); in 1948. The HoAP did not, well --- not at that time. (They later did in 1988.) But then, the UN ad Allied Powers allowed the Arab League (none of them more than a decade old and all born of a similar process) to start yet another war.

6. The Secretary-General has been informed by the Arab Higher Committee that is determined to persist in its rejection of the partition plan and in its refusal to recognize the resolution of the Assembly and “anything deriving therefrom”. The Subsequent communication of 6 February (1948) to the Secretary-General from the representative of the Arab Higher Committee set forth the following conclusions of the Arab Higher Committee Delegation:

“a. The Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.

“b. The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power or group of powers to establish a Jewish State in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense by force.

c. It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said commission.

d. The United Nations or its commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.

e. The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.

f. The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.

g. The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.​

“The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out – man women and child."​

They scope and nature of the danger represented by the HoAP is not something I or the Israelis dreamed-up or exaggerate. It comes from them directly in their own words, and by demonstrated by more than a half century of hostile conflict and terrorism; to include 3 wars.

When we discuss the situation, keep in mind that we are following a HoAP and their political and military position. They set the conditions for today's reality. If there is a case for genocide, apartheid, ethnic cleansing, and all the other allegations the HoAP make on a daily basis, just reread the communique from the Arab Higher Committee. Both the Covenant and the Charter show that it has not changed in all this time.

Until such time that the HoAP abandons this pol-mil position, it still represents the greatest threat to peace and security the Middle East has seen since the end of WWII.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[georgephillip]

If Israel's upcoming "dramatic decision" involves maximum land with minimum Palestinians, will the "HoAps" be entitled to non-violent protest?

"Early this month Israeli human rights organization B’Tselem published a report on Israel’s policy in Area C and its implications for the population of the West Bank. Less then a week later Economy Minister Naftali Bennett, in the midst of Kerry’s attempts to start the stalled peace talks, reiterated his plan to annex all of Area C to the Israeli state, bringing with it the 350,000 some od settlers as well as 62% of land of the West Bank.

"In a conference held by the settler Yesha Council Bennett said 'the attempt to establish a Palestinian state in our land has ended .. That we need to Annex area C of the West Bank now because the idea of creating a Palestinian state there is over.'”

Maximum Land with Minimum Palestinians: The Annexation of Area C | Palestine Chronicle

Would the rest of the world (excluding its greatest purveyor of violence, of course) be entitled to impose the same economic sanctions on Israel as it currently imposes on Iran?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

If Israel's upcoming "dramatic decision" involves maximum land with minimum Palestinians, will the "HoAps" be entitled to non-violent protest?

"Early this month Israeli human rights organization B’Tselem published a report on Israel’s policy in Area C and its implications for the population of the West Bank. Less then a week later Economy Minister Naftali Bennett, in the midst of Kerry’s attempts to start the stalled peace talks, reiterated his plan to annex all of Area C to the Israeli state, bringing with it the 350,000 some od settlers as well as 62% of land of the West Bank.

"In a conference held by the settler Yesha Council Bennett said 'the attempt to establish a Palestinian state in our land has ended .. That we need to Annex area C of the West Bank now because the idea of creating a Palestinian state there is over.'”

Maximum Land with Minimum Palestinians: The Annexation of Area C | Palestine Chronicle

Would the rest of the world (excluding its greatest purveyor of violence, of course) be entitled to impose the same economic sanctions on Israel as it currently imposes on Iran?

The two situations are different. You are just quoting the opinions of one hawkish Knesset member, as opposed to Iran building a nuclear bomb. Everyone knows there will be land swaps.

 

[Hoffstra]

You are obviously new to this forum, so probably not as clued up as you should be. Read this, then you will realize that Israel has every right to sovereignty of Judea and Samaria.

Mandate For Palestine - The Legal Aspects of Jewish Rights[/CENTER][/B]

Under the Mandate for Palestine, the Jews were given the right to settle in the lands between the River and Sea, conditioned upon their equal and fair treatment of non-Jews in those lands. Nothing will done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of non-Jewish communities, which Israel has of course violated.

Even the Israel Civil Administration has admitted that much of the land which current settlements were built is land stolen from Arabs. No one can deny that Israel has all sorts of regulations and restrictions directed towards the Palestinians and not the Israelis.

Israel is in gross violation of the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate for Palestine. She therefore doesn't have the right to profit from its benefits to the Jews.

Nevermind the fact that the Mandate for Palestine expired in 1948.

 

[docmauser1]

Under the Mandate for Palestine, the Jews were given the right to settle in the lands between the River and Sea, conditioned upon their equal and fair treatment of non-Jews in those lands. Nothing will done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of non-Jewish communities, which Israel has of course violated.

"So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population." Winnie Churchill.

Even the Israel Civil Administration has admitted that much of the land which current settlements were built is land stolen from Arabs.

Where did they say that? Regardless of the fact that their legal advisor, Shay Nitzan IIRC, is a wretched leftomaton, and as such, prone to getting quite creative, of course.

No one can deny that Israel has all sorts of regulations and restrictions directed towards the Palestinians and not the Israelis.

Did palistanians seriously think they could get away with their illegal settlements?

Israel is in gross violation of the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate for Palestine. She therefore doesn't have the right to profit from its benefits to the Jews.

Drivel.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

You are obviously new to this forum, so probably not as clued up as you should be. Read this, then you will realize that Israel has every right to sovereignty of Judea and Samaria.

Mandate For Palestine - The Legal Aspects of Jewish Rights[/CENTER][/B]

Under the Mandate for Palestine, the Jews were given the right to settle in the lands between the River and Sea, conditioned upon their equal and fair treatment of non-Jews in those lands. Nothing will done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of non-Jewish communities, which Israel has of course violated.

Lol, really???? How has civil and religious rights of non-Jewish communities been violated?

Even the Israel Civil Administration has admitted that much of the land which current settlements were built is land stolen from Arabs. No one can deny that Israel has all sorts of regulations and restrictions directed towards the Palestinians and not the Israelis.

Please show me a link from the Israel Civil Administration that claims that settlement land was stolen from Arabs.

Israel is in gross violation of the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate for Palestine. She therefore doesn't have the right to profit from its benefits to the Jews.
Nevermind the fact that the Mandate for Palestine expired in 1948.

No, we are not talking about the Mandate for Palestine but the San Remo Mandate that was ratified in 1922 by the League of Nations which became known as the UN, and which still legally applies.

Article 80 protects the rights of Jews to the land from the Jordan River to the Sea. Please read the link I showed you above. The word Mandate certainly seems to confuse you and others on here all too quick to run down Israel.

 

[Hoffstra]

Article 80 protects the rights of Jews to the land from the Jordan River to the Sea. Please read the link I showed you above. The word Mandate certainly seems to confuse you and others on here all too quick to run down Israel.

hey dumbass Glick, San Remo Conference also compels Israel to protect & respect the rights and freedoms of non-Jews between the River and the Sea.

Israel violates these rights and freedoms daily, by setting up roadblocks, creating embargos, discriminatory application of the need for building permits, building demolitions, building fences and walls that favor Jews over Arabs, etc etc.

You can't win this debate, Glick. You've lost.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

For Hoffstra and anyone who cares to know more about the legality
of the Jewish people's right to the land known as the 'West Bank.'

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubDhnM0MUmY]Howard Grief - EC4I middle east conflict documentary: Give Peace A Chance - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

Article 80 protects the rights of Jews to the land from the Jordan River to the Sea. Please read the link I showed you above. The word Mandate certainly seems to confuse you and others on here all too quick to run down Israel.

hey dumbass Glick, San Remo Conference also compels Israel to protect & respect the rights and freedoms of non-Jews between the River and the Sea.

Israel violates these rights and freedoms daily, by setting up roadblocks, creating embargos, discriminatory application of the need for building permits, building demolitions, building fences and walls that favor Jews over Arabs, etc etc.

You can't win this debate, Glick. You've lost.

Israel has a right to defend itself. If it did not set up totally legal roadblocks etc., it would be in grave danger of being wiped out. It is not too difficult to grasp.

 

[Hoffstra]

Lol, really???? How has civil and religious rights of non-Jewish communities been violated?

Please show me a link from the Israel Civil Administration that claims that settlement land was stolen from Arabs.

Glick, why are you LYING to the audience?

Israel has enforced rules and regulations that disadvantage Palestinians and advantage Israelis.

Roadblocks, discriminatory application of building permit laws and building demolitions, walls and fences that disproportionatrly affect Palesstinians more than Israelis, lending a blind eye to land theft. Who the fuck do you think you're kidding, Glick? You think the world is blind to the lies of the Israeli right? We know what's going on, its all been reported.

Here's the article in Haaretz detailing land theft by the settles and the Israel Civil Administration's acceptance of this.

Court case reveals how settlers illegally grab West Bank lands Israel News Broadcast | Haaretz

West Bank settlements have expanded their jurisdictions by taking control of private Palestinian land and allocating it to settlers. The land takeover - which the Civil Administration calls "theft" - has occured in an orderly manner, without any official authorization.

The method of taking over land is being publicized for the first time, based on testimony from a hearing on an appeal filed by a Kedumim resident, Michael Lesence, against a Civil Administration order to vacate 35 dunams (almost 9 acres) near the Mitzpe Yishai neighborhood of the settlement. Official records show the land as belonging to Palestinians from Kafr Qaddum.

Lesence's lawyer, Doron Nir Zvi, admitted at the hearing that the land in question was private Palestinian property

The land-takeover method was developed in Kedumim and neighboring settlements during the mid-1990s, after the Oslo Accords, and continues to this day.

Zeev Mushinsky, the "land coordinator" at the Kedumim local council, testified as to how it works: Council employees, Mushinsky in this case, would map the "abandoned lands" around the settlements, even if they were outside the council's jurisdiction, with the aim of taking them over. The council would "allocate" the lands to settlers, who would sign an official form stating that they have no ownership claim on the m, and that the council is entitled to evict them whenever it sees fit, in return for compensating them solely for their investment in cultivating the land.

Kedumim's former security chief, Michael Bar-Neder, testified that the land "allocation" was followed by an effort to expand the settlement. Bar-Neder said that once the settlers seized the lands, an application would be made to the military commander to declare them state-owned, since under the law covering the West Bank, anyone who does not cultivate his land for three years forfeits ownership of it.

 

[Hoffstra]

Israel has a right to defend itself. If it did not set up totally legal roadblocks etc., it would be in grave danger of being wiped out. It is not too difficult to grasp.

stealing private property has nothing to do with defending itself.

so save us the hyperbolic defense of theft.

 

[Hoffstra]

For Hoffstra and anyone who cares to know more about the legality
of the Jewish people's right to the land known as the 'West Bank.'...

yeah, and the Jewish peoples' right to settle Palestine is contingent upon their respect and honoring of non-Jewish civil and human rights!!!!!!!!!!!

its in the Balfour Declaration, San Remo Conference, and Palestine Mandate.

you can't run away from this fact, Glick!!

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

Again I refer you to the post above your Hoffstra. Israel is entitled to the land and any laws that violate that are illegal. I would advise you to read Howard Grief's book if you want to know more about the allocation of land.