Issue 1 in Ohio

[NotfooledbyW]

And you want to rip his/her limbs off.

You are a liar. I do not want that. Just like I do not want any woman to suffer a miscarriage or still birth or give birth to a deformed fetus so much so to prevent its own sustained life. It happens to women who want to be a mother and you suck as a human being

Apparently the Orange Evangelicals worship a God who wants that and they bitch because a mere mortal who may not be saved by Jesus blood doesn’t want to suffer through it. You make no sense.

wthrmn.23.08.07
nf.36

The viability argument goes out the window when you remember that there are many people who are not viable without constant support and care by machines and other people, just like an unborn child.

You said a fetus is not part of its mother’s body.

So, if you remove a fetus from his mothers, body should not die

People are not fetuses. People were fetuses who transition to an infant person at live birth. They were likely viable as a fetus at around 24 weeks to be able to survive no longer being part of their mother’s body.

People on machines later in life have met the live birth requirements and become a person before losing unassisted natural body functions. They have a right to equally protected right to live with as long as their brain is still alive. They point of being human is having a brain with consciousness or as a minimum human consciousness potential.

A sixteen week fetus has no brain and thus no consciousness. That is a fact.

If you want to believe that life begins at conception, you have no right to interrupt it do you not elect to abort your fetus. I will never tell you what store choices you need to make.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Actor and political activist George Takei in a social media post called the election result a “political earthquake.”​

​

'Pro-democracy forces won!': Progressives laud victory over Ohio Issue 1 'power grab'

Progressives on Tuesday night lauded Ohio after Buckeye State voters decisively rejected an effort to raise the threshold for amending the state’s constitution ahead of a November referendum that would guarantee reproductive rights in the state’s constitution.Ohio Issue 1 would have raised the...

www.rawstory.com

“Ohio is creating a political earthquake today felt across the nation,” he wrote. “GOP: Your extremism and anti-democratic scheming are going down to crushing defeat. And it’s going to get worse for you from here.”​

Orange Evangelical Religious Extremism was handed its ass in Ohio today.
A fetus with no brain will never have a right to gestate to full term in any pregnancy in the red state of Ohio when the pregnant woman elects to avoid the risks that full term gestation will place on her life.

 

[otto105]

Issue 1 in Ohio that will be voted upon this Tuesday, is important for a myriad of reasons.

What is being attempted is to codify abortion into the Ohio Constitution via a mere majority. However, this Tuesday what is being attempted is to raise the bar for passing a Constitutional amendment to the state Constitution from a mere majority to 60% or higher. Only then will a mere majority of voters be prohibited from making such changes. This is key because most Ohio voters are being sold a lie about the abortion amendment, so obtaining a mere majority with a nation already divided using false propaganda should not be a problem for the Left.

With the nation divided on abortion, the Left seems confident they can obtain a majority to pass amending the Constitution this fall in November, by getting a majority to vote for abortion as a state Constitutional right. It is being sold as a return to Roe vs. Wade, but nothing could be further from the truth.

In 1973, the high court ruled that Texas was wrong. “The word ‘person,’ as used in the Fourteenth Amendment, does not include the unborn,” wrote Justice Harry Blackmun in his landmark opinion. The Supreme Court held that personhood could not be granted to a fetus before “viability”—the point around 24 weeks of pregnancy when a fetus can survive outside the womb—and established a constitutional right to abortion access.

Fetal Personhood Laws Are a New Frontier in the Battle Over Reproductive Rights

Fetal personhood laws extend the legal protections of people to a fetus or embryo before viability.

time.com

However, the new abortion laws to be codified into state Constitutions like Ohio will have no such verbiage.

Instead, the amendment prohibits the state of Ohio from banning abortion when, in the professional judgment of a physician, an abortion "is necessary to protect the pregnant patient’s life or health."

So, let's say the physician says that the woman needs to have the abortion because she is depressed about being pregnant. Then the woman will be allowed to have the abortion even if the unborn is viable, all in the interest of maintaining the woman's health.

For those who support pro-life, this is worse than what we had under Roe vs. Wade as women can obtain an abortion up to a partial birth abortion.

But millions of dollars are being pumped into Ohio from outside Ohio to convince everyone that it is a return to Roe vs. Wade. The problem is, most of the money is being pumped from outside the state into Ohio to get voters to vote on a lie.

Most of the money raised in Ohio's Issue 1 campaign — both for and against — is coming from out-of-state sources

More than $15 million has been been raised by the groups supporting and opposing Issue 1. But the money gap between the two sides is big.

www.statenews.org

Proabortion advocates outside Ohio have raised $14.8 million, compared to $4.8 million raised to pass issue one.

This appears to be the future of democracy, that is, to get a simple majority to codify things into state constitutional law as the Left outspends their opponents with propaganda and outright lies, but then, the Left is made up of mostly rich folk, like Soros and Gates.

But they won't stop with abortion. They will continue to turn the constitutions of red states into blue constitutions, as the states slowly turn purple using the same techniques.

So, what is next? Gun rights? The sky is the limit.

Just how is that cynical maga fuckup ballot charade going in Ohio?

 

[john doe 101]

This failed in what Fox called a "lopsided" vote. A lot of repubs voted "no" to get this done and it clears the way to codify abortion rights into the Ohio constitution.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Just how is that cynical maga fuckup ballot charade going in Ohio?

It’s aborted 2 to 1 Not even close,

The 2 are rational human beings with many being normal religious Americans

The 1 are irrational evangelical Christians for the most part who hopefully learned that they ought to mind their own Jesus business.

 

[Augustine_]

Issue 1 in Ohio that will be voted upon this Tuesday, is important for a myriad of reasons.

What is being attempted is to codify abortion into the Ohio Constitution via a mere majority. However, this Tuesday what is being attempted is to raise the bar for passing a Constitutional amendment to the state Constitution from a mere majority to 60% or higher. Only then will a mere majority of voters be prohibited from making such changes. This is key because most Ohio voters are being sold a lie about the abortion amendment, so obtaining a mere majority with a nation already divided using false propaganda should not be a problem for the Left.

With the nation divided on abortion, the Left seems confident they can obtain a majority to pass amending the Constitution this fall in November, by getting a majority to vote for abortion as a state Constitutional right. It is being sold as a return to Roe vs. Wade, but nothing could be further from the truth.

In 1973, the high court ruled that Texas was wrong. “The word ‘person,’ as used in the Fourteenth Amendment, does not include the unborn,” wrote Justice Harry Blackmun in his landmark opinion. The Supreme Court held that personhood could not be granted to a fetus before “viability”—the point around 24 weeks of pregnancy when a fetus can survive outside the womb—and established a constitutional right to abortion access.

Fetal Personhood Laws Are a New Frontier in the Battle Over Reproductive Rights

Fetal personhood laws extend the legal protections of people to a fetus or embryo before viability.

time.com

However, the new abortion laws to be codified into state Constitutions like Ohio will have no such verbiage.

Instead, the amendment prohibits the state of Ohio from banning abortion when, in the professional judgment of a physician, an abortion "is necessary to protect the pregnant patient’s life or health."

So, let's say the physician says that the woman needs to have the abortion because she is depressed about being pregnant. Then the woman will be allowed to have the abortion even if the unborn is viable, all in the interest of maintaining the woman's health.

For those who support pro-life, this is worse than what we had under Roe vs. Wade as women can obtain an abortion up to a partial birth abortion.

But millions of dollars are being pumped into Ohio from outside Ohio to convince everyone that it is a return to Roe vs. Wade. The problem is, most of the money is being pumped from outside the state into Ohio to get voters to vote on a lie.

Most of the money raised in Ohio's Issue 1 campaign — both for and against — is coming from out-of-state sources

More than $15 million has been been raised by the groups supporting and opposing Issue 1. But the money gap between the two sides is big.

www.statenews.org

Proabortion advocates outside Ohio have raised $14.8 million, compared to $4.8 million raised to pass issue one.

This appears to be the future of democracy, that is, to get a simple majority to codify things into state constitutional law as the Left outspends their opponents with propaganda and outright lies, but then, the Left is made up of mostly rich folk, like Soros and Gates.

But they won't stop with abortion. They will continue to turn the constitutions of red states into blue constitutions, as the states slowly turn purple using the same techniques.

So, what is next? Gun rights? The sky is the limit.

Thank you for highlighting the importance of this effort by the GOP to increase the power of big government against citizens

 

[Rigby5]

Issue 1 in Ohio that will be voted upon this Tuesday, is important for a myriad of reasons.

What is being attempted is to codify abortion into the Ohio Constitution via a mere majority. However, this Tuesday what is being attempted is to raise the bar for passing a Constitutional amendment to the state Constitution from a mere majority to 60% or higher. Only then will a mere majority of voters be prohibited from making such changes. This is key because most Ohio voters are being sold a lie about the abortion amendment, so obtaining a mere majority with a nation already divided using false propaganda should not be a problem for the Left.

With the nation divided on abortion, the Left seems confident they can obtain a majority to pass amending the Constitution this fall in November, by getting a majority to vote for abortion as a state Constitutional right. It is being sold as a return to Roe vs. Wade, but nothing could be further from the truth.

In 1973, the high court ruled that Texas was wrong. “The word ‘person,’ as used in the Fourteenth Amendment, does not include the unborn,” wrote Justice Harry Blackmun in his landmark opinion. The Supreme Court held that personhood could not be granted to a fetus before “viability”—the point around 24 weeks of pregnancy when a fetus can survive outside the womb—and established a constitutional right to abortion access.

Fetal Personhood Laws Are a New Frontier in the Battle Over Reproductive Rights

Fetal personhood laws extend the legal protections of people to a fetus or embryo before viability.

time.com

However, the new abortion laws to be codified into state Constitutions like Ohio will have no such verbiage.

Instead, the amendment prohibits the state of Ohio from banning abortion when, in the professional judgment of a physician, an abortion "is necessary to protect the pregnant patient’s life or health."

So, let's say the physician says that the woman needs to have the abortion because she is depressed about being pregnant. Then the woman will be allowed to have the abortion even if the unborn is viable, all in the interest of maintaining the woman's health.

For those who support pro-life, this is worse than what we had under Roe vs. Wade as women can obtain an abortion up to a partial birth abortion.

But millions of dollars are being pumped into Ohio from outside Ohio to convince everyone that it is a return to Roe vs. Wade. The problem is, most of the money is being pumped from outside the state into Ohio to get voters to vote on a lie.

Most of the money raised in Ohio's Issue 1 campaign — both for and against — is coming from out-of-state sources

More than $15 million has been been raised by the groups supporting and opposing Issue 1. But the money gap between the two sides is big.

www.statenews.org

Proabortion advocates outside Ohio have raised $14.8 million, compared to $4.8 million raised to pass issue one.

This appears to be the future of democracy, that is, to get a simple majority to codify things into state constitutional law as the Left outspends their opponents with propaganda and outright lies, but then, the Left is made up of mostly rich folk, like Soros and Gates.

But they won't stop with abortion. They will continue to turn the constitutions of red states into blue constitutions, as the states slowly turn purple using the same techniques.

So, what is next? Gun rights? The sky is the limit.

Nonsense.
There is never any reason to ever force a woman to give birth, for any reason.
It is a private matter between her and her doctor.
And only they get any say.

If the woman decides her health is not up to giving birth, that is totally her call.
If the woman decides the child would be with Downs Syndrome and should be aborted, that is her call.

No one else gets any say or make a woman jump through any hoops.

 

[candycorn]

Issue 1 in Ohio that will be voted upon this Tuesday, is important for a myriad of reasons.

What is being attempted is to codify abortion into the Ohio Constitution via a mere majority. However, this Tuesday what is being attempted is to raise the bar for passing a Constitutional amendment to the state Constitution from a mere majority to 60% or higher. Only then will a mere majority of voters be prohibited from making such changes. This is key because most Ohio voters are being sold a lie about the abortion amendment, so obtaining a mere majority with a nation already divided using false propaganda should not be a problem for the Left.

With the nation divided on abortion, the Left seems confident they can obtain a majority to pass amending the Constitution this fall in November, by getting a majority to vote for abortion as a state Constitutional right. It is being sold as a return to Roe vs. Wade, but nothing could be further from the truth.

In 1973, the high court ruled that Texas was wrong. “The word ‘person,’ as used in the Fourteenth Amendment, does not include the unborn,” wrote Justice Harry Blackmun in his landmark opinion. The Supreme Court held that personhood could not be granted to a fetus before “viability”—the point around 24 weeks of pregnancy when a fetus can survive outside the womb—and established a constitutional right to abortion access.

Fetal Personhood Laws Are a New Frontier in the Battle Over Reproductive Rights

Fetal personhood laws extend the legal protections of people to a fetus or embryo before viability.

time.com

However, the new abortion laws to be codified into state Constitutions like Ohio will have no such verbiage.

Instead, the amendment prohibits the state of Ohio from banning abortion when, in the professional judgment of a physician, an abortion "is necessary to protect the pregnant patient’s life or health."

So, let's say the physician says that the woman needs to have the abortion because she is depressed about being pregnant. Then the woman will be allowed to have the abortion even if the unborn is viable, all in the interest of maintaining the woman's health.

For those who support pro-life, this is worse than what we had under Roe vs. Wade as women can obtain an abortion up to a partial birth abortion.

But millions of dollars are being pumped into Ohio from outside Ohio to convince everyone that it is a return to Roe vs. Wade. The problem is, most of the money is being pumped from outside the state into Ohio to get voters to vote on a lie.

Most of the money raised in Ohio's Issue 1 campaign — both for and against — is coming from out-of-state sources

More than $15 million has been been raised by the groups supporting and opposing Issue 1. But the money gap between the two sides is big.

www.statenews.org

Proabortion advocates outside Ohio have raised $14.8 million, compared to $4.8 million raised to pass issue one.

This appears to be the future of democracy, that is, to get a simple majority to codify things into state constitutional law as the Left outspends their opponents with propaganda and outright lies, but then, the Left is made up of mostly rich folk, like Soros and Gates.

But they won't stop with abortion. They will continue to turn the constitutions of red states into blue constitutions, as the states slowly turn purple using the same techniques.

So, what is next? Gun rights? The sky is the limit.

How'd it go?

 

[Rigby5]

It is generally conceded that, for one reason or another, the Founders had the smarts to conceive of, and implement, a brilliant form of government. We have separation of powers, checks and balances, and a way to accomplish anything that a government needs to accomplish.

And there is not one thing that The People get to decide under the U.S. Constitution. Nothing. Other countries have "plebiscites," whereby The People get to make laws. Not the U.S. The Founders knew better. Look at California and their idiotic "Propositions." Under our Constitution, The People elect representatives who make the policies and decisions. Because the Founders knew that The People, acting collectively, are an idiot. GIven the opportunity, a simple majority of Americans today would:

• Send people of black-African descent "back" to Africa - no particular country,
• Impose the death penalty (and/or castration) for hundreds of different crimes,
• Stop all immigration,
• Make "Christianity" the national religion, and roll it into the Constitution,
• Make it a crime to display a lack of patriotism (e.g., kneeling for the National Anthem),
• Bring back severe corporal punishment to public schools, and authorize expulsion of anyone "acting up" more than once,

You get the idea.

And this is why no major policy decision should EVER be decided by a simple majority of The People. As for abortion, a different result could hinge on one word in how the proposition is phrased, where people don't even know what they are voting for. It MUST be up to the legislature, and a simple majority in the legislature should not carry a proposition of this import. Look at ObamaCare. Carried without a single Republican vote, and impacted scores of political careers for a decade, and for what? The President LIED about it to get it sold, and the lies came home to roost.

You have a point that the majority should not be allowed to abuse a minority.
However, abortion restrictions are inherently abusive, so you are arguing a contradiction.

As for ObamaCare, I did not like it because it mandated private health insurance.
But now that the mandate is dropped, it is slightly better than the way it was.
There is still lots of room for improvement however.

 

[scruffy]

Anti-Democracy.

We get it.

If you're a Democrat you're a fucking idiot anyway, so yeah.

 

[otto105]

If you're a Democrat you're a fucking idiot anyway, so yeah.

Posts a fuckup from the lower educated fuckup party.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Cool then no majority rule for any election. Just those that can hack their way to office. I am starting to like this!

There can be only one!

 

[Weatherman2020]

You are a liar. I do not want that. Just like I do not want any woman to suffer a miscarriage or still birth or give birth to a deformed fetus so much so to prevent its own sustained life. It happens to women who want to be a mother and you suck as a human being

Apparently the Orange Evangelicals worship a God who wants that and they bitch because a mere mortal who may not be saved by Jesus blood doesn’t want to suffer through it. You make no sense.

wthrmn.23.08.07
nf.36



You said a fetus is not part of its mother’s body.

So, if you remove a fetus from his mothers, body should not die

People are not fetuses. People were fetuses who transition to an infant person at live birth. They were likely viable as a fetus at around 24 weeks to be able to survive no longer being part of their mother’s body.

People on machines later in life have met the live birth requirements and become a person before losing unassisted natural body functions. They have a right to equally protected right to live with as long as their brain is still alive. They point of being human is having a brain with consciousness or as a minimum human consciousness potential.

A sixteen week fetus has no brain and thus no consciousness. That is a fact.

If you want to believe that life begins at conception, you have no right to interrupt it do you not elect to abort your fetus. I will never tell you what store choices you need to make.

Ah, so you’re clueless as to how baby’s are butchered then.

 

[pknopp]

This failed in what Fox called a "lopsided" vote. A lot of repubs voted "no" to get this done and it clears the way to codify abortion rights into the Ohio constitution.

No, that is not why the issue lost in such a lopsided manner. A simple abortion vote will be a far different vote.

Some groups opposed to Tuesday's ballot question had emphasized that the referendum went beyond abortion, arguing it is simply undemocratic to curb citizens' power.

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/ohi...-measure-in-win-for-abortion-rights-advocates

I mentioned this issue a good while back (before the mods allowed this thread to go way off track).

If this had passed a right the voters of Ohio have had for decades would have been removed from them. A good portion of people wanted nothing to do with this. They were not voting on abortion rights, but their right overall.

In example:


"This is much larger than one issue; it's much larger than one party or one election," said Jen Miller, the executive director of the League of Women Voters of Ohio. "This is about a freedom that Ohioans have had for more than a century."

For instance, good government groups are working on a ballot question for 2024 that would amend the constitution to prevent gerrymandering, the process by which one party manipulates district lines to entrench power. If Tuesday's referendum had succeeded, getting that issue on the ballot would be far more challenging.

I've noted that Democrats will have a hard time in 2024 if they do get the multiple parties running (which I still absolutely hope happens) but now I'm less sure the Democrats can't win in that scenario.

The Republicans are going way, way, way too far in their desire to control people. People in Ohio last night said "Enough". Will Republicans listen? I doubt it.

 

[Frankenstein]

Tell us again how you do not believe a woman has an absolute right to make their own decisions about their bodies.

She made her decision when she had sex, just like the father but he get no rights! You, and all the others in favor of killing the most innocent among us, are the reason for child sex trafficking, when they are seen as disposable, why wouldn't the sex predators you enable see them differently?

 

[Frankenstein]

Any of you who support Abortion on demand, which is what this, among other things, and for any reason, are those who prop up child sex predators, when they are seen as disposable, those people use them that way!

 

[Weatherman2020]

No, that is not why the issue lost in such a lopsided manner. A simple abortion vote will be a far different vote.

Some groups opposed to Tuesday's ballot question had emphasized that the referendum went beyond abortion, arguing it is simply undemocratic to curb citizens' power.

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/ohi...-measure-in-win-for-abortion-rights-advocates

I mentioned this issue a good while back (before the mods allowed this thread to go way off track).

If this had passed a right the voters of Ohio have had for decades would have been removed from them. A good portion of people wanted nothing to do with this. They were not voting on abortion rights, but their right overall.

In example:


"This is much larger than one issue; it's much larger than one party or one election," said Jen Miller, the executive director of the League of Women Voters of Ohio. "This is about a freedom that Ohioans have had for more than a century."

For instance, good government groups are working on a ballot question for 2024 that would amend the constitution to prevent gerrymandering, the process by which one party manipulates district lines to entrench power. If Tuesday's referendum had succeeded, getting that issue on the ballot would be far more challenging.

I've noted that Democrats will have a hard time in 2024 if they do get the multiple parties running (which I still absolutely hope happens) but now I'm less sure the Democrats can't win in that scenario.

The Republicans are going way, way, way too far in their desire to control people. People in Ohio last night said "Enough". Will Republicans listen? I doubt it.

I don’t care what the issue. Any Constitutional change at State level should never be a 50% +1 vote to make the change.

Ohio blew it.

 

[pknopp]

I don’t care what the issue. Any Constitutional change at State level should never be a 50% +1 vote to make the change.

Ohio blew it.

Ohio said "mind your own business".

 

[Weatherman2020]

Ohio said "mind your own business".

So did South Carolina in 1861. Doesn’t make it a smart move.

 

[pknopp]

So did South Carolina in 1861. Doesn’t make it a smart move.

Giving the people the power over politicians is a good thing.