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No arrogance involved. People of science explore the physical, and there are many things to explore: Sea, sky, micro-organism to get started. They are fascinated by the unknown and wish to make it known.The arrogance of the religious is that they truly believe they can know the unknowable
It has everything to do with religion when one defines religion and faith as a way of living.
Exactly! It is for the whole world which Christ redeemed, whether they be believers or not.was not reserved by christ for his believers.
Joy is the awareness that no matter what is going on in the physical world, all will be well, and awareness all is right with my soul/spirit just as things are.Joy is cultivated within.
No arrogance involved. People of science explore the physical, and there are many things to explore: Sea, sky, micro-organism to get started. They are fascinated by the unknown and wish to make it known.
In the same way, people of faith are exploring the unknown so that the unknowable can become known.
If science is not arrogant, then neither is religion. Both are areas of exploration.
ineffable and unknowable beliefs have resulted in the deaths of many young men.The arrogance of the religious is that they truly believe they can know the unknowable
Joy is the awareness that no matter what is going on in the physical world, all will be well, and awareness all is right with my soul/spirit just as things are.
Some have the habit of thinking, "I'll be happy when..." Unlike happiness or gladness, joy is not fleeting. It is ever present.
That is just reasoned humanism and has nothing to do with gods or religion.ineffable and unknowable beliefs have resulted in the deaths of many young men.
skepticism of "received wisdom" on such subjects as "the trinity" or the virgin birth is really immaterial to the more essential necessity of morality and the golden rule (the guiding principle of all the wise men of the east. )
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
matthew 7:12
the confucious quote is from analects 4 and, oh, here is a meme. i'd rather the quotes nut this is the idea , delivered to baby jesus by the "three wise men" ....
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Interesting belief system however I disagree and I prefer my way over you opinions. Thanks for sharing with us your journey.When I was 10 years old, we had a dog named Silver. A sealyham - sort of a largish Westie. He had been struck by a car when I was much younger and that had left him blind in one eye. We adapted. He adapted. But whenever he entered an unfamiliar space (the furniture moved, for instance) he would collide with things. I felt bad for him. Like most children my age I believed what I was told was the truth by my parents and the church they took me to. So I prayed as fervently and selflessly as I could manage that God would restore his vision. But, as would happen in any bad movie, his poor vision led Silver to wandering out in front of another car where he suffered another concussion which left him completely blind. Now all dogs go to heaven because all dogs are innocent. Every non-human form of life is innocent of the many sins the Bible spells out. Initially, I was angry. How could God cause my innocent dog to suffer, regardless of his motive or intent? The standard "mysterious ways" line didn't help at all. What did help was the realization that the best explanation was not that god was mysterious or unknowable, but that he simply wasn't there. The existence of the god described by the Bible and by our preacher and the believers I would talk with was simply not possible; not only because it violated all the laws of nature but because absolutely no evidence I could find supported the idea. Every thing I could learn about the world and how it worked refuted the idea of a caring, personal god who had created miraculous humans and a miraculous Earth to be their home and was everpresent, watching over us and, on proper supplication, violating the laws that he himself had set in place - if he felt like it.
As the years went by I simply became more and more convinced that there is a great deal about the working of the universe we do not yet know, but the basics - the principal of uniformitarianism, holds, everywhere and everywhen. Nothing is supernatural. No will directs or inspires the stream of events taking place over the passage of time. Only physics.
What signs or signals should I have caught that might have lured me back to my childhood faith? And how might my life have been different had I done so? I have lots of friends and I'm pretty sure most of them think I'm a nice guy. I buy fully and heartily into the Golden Rule. I believe it to be the sole basis of human civilization. How do you think my complete lack of divine faith hurt me? Will your god throw into a lake of fire because I led a good life but failed to do him obeisance? That is, of course, precisely what scriptures tells us. Why would ANY of you believe, much less WORSHIP such a god? He seems a monster. Would anyone care to correct me?
That's when I reflect on one of my favorite adages, I think said by Cicero. I never remember the exact words, but it something like, Don't work to join the majority. It's better to beware of joining the ranks of the insane.I know I have a real aversion to the "Because I said so" crowd.
Your Diety is the God of Man Made Global Warming.When I was 10 years old, we had a dog named Silver. A sealyham - sort of a largish Westie. He had been struck by a car when I was much younger and that had left him blind in one eye. We adapted. He adapted. But whenever he entered an unfamiliar space (the furniture moved, for instance) he would collide with things. I felt bad for him. Like most children my age I believed what I was told was the truth by my parents and the church they took me to. So I prayed as fervently and selflessly as I could manage that God would restore his vision. But, as would happen in any bad movie, his poor vision led Silver to wandering out in front of another car where he suffered another concussion which left him completely blind. Now all dogs go to heaven because all dogs are innocent. Every non-human form of life is innocent of the many sins the Bible spells out. Initially, I was angry. How could God cause my innocent dog to suffer, regardless of his motive or intent? The standard "mysterious ways" line didn't help at all. What did help was the realization that the best explanation was not that god was mysterious or unknowable, but that he simply wasn't there. The existence of the god described by the Bible and by our preacher and the believers I would talk with was simply not possible; not only because it violated all the laws of nature but because absolutely no evidence I could find supported the idea. Every thing I could learn about the world and how it worked refuted the idea of a caring, personal god who had created miraculous humans and a miraculous Earth to be their home and was everpresent, watching over us and, on proper supplication, violating the laws that he himself had set in place - if he felt like it.
As the years went by I simply became more and more convinced that there is a great deal about the working of the universe we do not yet know, but the basics - the principal of uniformitarianism, holds, everywhere and everywhen. Nothing is supernatural. No will directs or inspires the stream of events taking place over the passage of time. Only physics.
What signs or signals should I have caught that might have lured me back to my childhood faith? And how might my life have been different had I done so? I have lots of friends and I'm pretty sure most of them think I'm a nice guy. I buy fully and heartily into the Golden Rule. I believe it to be the sole basis of human civilization. How do you think my complete lack of divine faith hurt me? Will your god throw into a lake of fire because I led a good life but failed to do him obeisance? That is, of course, precisely what scriptures tells us. Why would ANY of you believe, much less WORSHIP such a god? He seems a monster. Would anyone care to correct me?
Like a birthmark, joy is not a 'desire' but what is. It is either present or it is not. That's the difference between joy and happiness/gladness.The very desire to experience joy prevents you from experiencing
That's when I reflect on one of my favorite adages, I think said by Cicero. I never remember the exact words, but it something like, Don't work to join the majority. It's better to beware of joining the ranks of the insane.
I grew up with a family members who saw everything as either black or white. I marveled at that, because even as a child I was aware I saw everything in shades of grey. As a result I often heard the exasperated, "She's different!" I was loved all the same and was told what was black and what was white. While I knew that was not my reality, I did respect it as their reality. It had its advantages, as people who see in black and white often impetuously plunge forward. We "grey visualizers" often spend too much time on the fence thinking things over.
the revolutionaries certainly opposed the position of the clergy in french society.The French Revolution was an atheist movement?
Really?
So it's still external.Like a birthmark, joy is not a 'desire' but what is. It is either present or it is not. That's the difference between joy and happiness/gladness.
the revolutionaries certainly opposed the position of the clergy in french society.
as to actual religious "faith" the leading revolutionaries were free masons and diests (just as santa anna, bolivar, houston and the texas revolutionaries and our own founders.)
I work with students, so I sometimes hear the depressed, "I'm so stupid." Or, in PE, "I'll never be able to do that." No one is ever happy at such times, but depressed, thankfully, usually passing when assured they can learn, they can improve. Religion is an area of knowledge, a practice geared toward improvement. Take away any area of knowledge or practice--and that includes religion--may result in depression.Less religion does not imply more depression
I work with students, so I sometimes hear the depressed, "I'm so stupid." Or, in PE, "I'll never be able to do that." No one is ever happy at such times, but depressed, thankfully, usually passing when assured they can learn, they can improve. Religion is an area of knowledge, a practice geared toward improvement. Take away any area of knowledge or practice--and that includes religion--may result in depression.
Lack of religion is not the only lack that can cause societal depression, and everyone practicing a religion is not the cure-all, either. Depression often stems from feelings that something is lacking--and that "something" is not always religion. In some cases it may very well be, and let's not overlook those some.
Absolutely.To me that is a statement of fact that acknowledges what we can never know but that we can still live in harmony with the way of the universe without being able to know what we cannot.
another concept. i am quite old and think i must have experienced every possible emotion from relief to terror. perhaps i have been confusing "joy" with "gladness"?Like a birthmark, joy is not a 'desire' but what is. It is either present or it is not. That's the difference between joy and happiness/gladness.
