Zone1 I've been an atheist for 60 years and have never once been tempted to believe in any god

[Blues Man]

Where did the "golden rule" arise? Consider this carefully and you may find that what allowed you to live your life and try to be generally good without an overt belief in G-d carried with it the underlying essense of G-d. Before the bible the Golden Rule didn't exist. Humans were even more savage-like in actions until G-d first spoke to Mlses.

Through reasoned humanism which religion claimed as its own

 

[Blues Man]

Also the structure of truth is telling you this. There's only one truth. Take science as an example: If a theory in physics and a theory in biology are in conflict with each other this has to be cleared. Reason: Scientists believe in one truth and not in many truthes. And they believe this truth is independent from human beings. We do not create the world - we are only able to use what's here.

There is nothing in the universe telling me there must be a single god.

 

[Blues Man]

But he is not [only] "real", he's the creator of reality. Tell me why something is at all and why not only is nothing.

We each create our own reality.

 

[zaangalewa]

There is nothing in the universe telling me there must be a single god.

Because you do not like to listen and you do not like to think, I guess. The advantage of your belief: You are not responsible. For nothing. But is this true? ... hmmm ... If you are not able to make something wrong then you are also not free. ... Are you sure you understand in which world you are living?

 

[zaangalewa]

... Atheists didn't invent the litany of gods that are worshipped today. Atheists didn't invent the 100s of different versions of the same magical god that you and the other sectarians slapfight over on this board.

I guess atheists have millions of sects with much more millions of weird ideas. And many of them fight violently for their ideas. In the French revolution for example were in the worst day executed more people than the Catholic church had executed in 500 years. Everyone critcizes Catholics - no one criticizes this people.

 

[zaangalewa]

only one truth?

Yes. With three categroeuis: True, false and not decdieable.

how does that fit into the "alternate realties" so colorfully displayed in the former presidents delusions?

I guess you speak here about Mr. president Joe Biden. Joe Biden is a Catholic like I. If he said so then I do not know now what he understands by using the word "reality". The future for example has many possible ways - the past has only one way. Between both is the universe (we are part of the universe) which produces facts now. And we are able to speak with the help of our reality simulator (our brain) "virtually" about alternatives to the currently existing reality.

both are myths,

The president and delusions are a myth?

but i might say that jesus

Ah - Jesus - my good old friend with the longest and most birthday celebrations the world ever had seen. You know him? Nice.

(the mystery god of sheep and fish, )

The what?

would be closer to the mysteries of persepine and dionesius

Jesus is closer to anyone as this one is close to oneselve. But in case of Kore and Denis I don't know. I never asked Jesus about other persons because I was always convinced Jesus will never answer such questions.

 

[zaangalewa]

We each create our own reality. ...

We each have some ideas about reality. That's all. And we should know what we speak about in this context because we are real on our own - what's not always only fun. We did by the way not create ourselves. We are just simple here and we are able to learn. I am for example the rectangle full of light in front of you and "speak" to you. But what you "hear" might be something else.

 

[Blues Man]

Because you do not like to listen and you do not like to think, I guess. The advantage of your belief: You are not responsible. For nothing. But is this true? ... hmmm ... If you are not able to make something wrong then you are also not free. ... Are you sure you understand in which world you are living?

That's is just more arrogant bullshit.

You obviously don't know what I believe or don't believe so don't try to tell me what I think.

 

[sealybobo]

But he is not [only] "real", he's the creator of reality. Tell me why something is at all and why not only is nothing.

Is your question unanswerable? Then you tell me.

 

[Blues Man]

We each have some ideas about realiyt. That's all-. And we should know what we speak about in thsi contextt because we are real on our own. We did by the way not create ourselves. We are just simple here and we are able to learn.

The universe you perceive is not the universe I or anyone else perceives.

 

[Blues Man]

Is your question unanswerable? Then you tell me.

The arrogance of the religious is that they truly believe they can know the unknowable

 

[Meriweather]

Which part of "reality" is this God? If he is a part of "reality", you'll be able to prove it, so, go ahead.

God is often termed "spiritual", as in, it's from something that does not conform to current science knowledge. Others would call that "magic", as, Harry Potter flying is "magic" because it's impossible for a human to pick up a broomstick and fly around, science does not allow it.

The spiritual world is the greater reality over the physical world. We are sojourners here, and for a brief time only. What is the greater reality in your life: Your body,body or your mind and soul?

 

[rampart]

We each create our own reality.

The actual universe we perceive does not exist but through electrochemical impulses interpreted in our brains we each create our own reality.

In that sense we are the Creators and artists of the universe

i need to think a bit about the religious implications, but certainly external stimuli (good news, the culmination of a project, etc) can cause "joy." i also perceive an objective universe independent of our electrical impulses, but

"joy" existed in eden (real or allegorical) and was not reserved by christ for his believers.

i think we may be closer than i thought in philosophical; terms despite the divergence of our preferred solutions.

 

[Blues Man]

I guess atheists have millions of sects with much more millions of weird ideas. And many of them fight violently for their ideas. In the French revolution for example were in the worst day executed more people than the Catholic church had executed in 500 years. Everyone critcizes Catholics - no one criticizes this people.

The French Revolution was an atheist movement?

Really?

 

[Blues Man]

i need to think a bit about the religious implications, but certainly external stimuli (good news, the culmination of a project, etc) can cause "joy." i also perceive an objective universe independent of our electrical impulses, but

"joy" existed in eden (real or allegorical) and was not reserved by christ for his believers.

i think we may be closer than i thought in philosophical; terms despite the divergence of our preferred solutions.

Joy is cultivated within.

When you look for joy in external stimuli you are actually first creating unhappiness within while you look for a remedy for that suffering outside yourself.

 

[Meriweather]

And don't deny that there are posters here who have told me flat out that their religion, namely Christianity, is the only path to salvation (whatever that is).

I don't deny it, but I do ignore it. When someone tells you the earth is flat, that there was no moon landing, does that upset you? Or, do you let it be because you know the reality? If people want to believe the earth is flat, what is it to me? No moon landing? What is it to me? All Catholics go to hell? That is their reality, but it is not the reality. Nothing to angst about, so I wonder why it gets to you.

 

[Blues Man]

I don't deny it, but I do ignore it. When someone tells you the earth is flat, that there was no moon landing, does that upset you? Or, do you let it be because you know the reality? If people want to believe the earth is flat, what is it to me? No moon landing? What is it to me? All Catholics go to hell? That is their reality, but it is not the reality. Nothing to angst about, so I wonder why it gets to you.

I know I have a real aversion to the "Because I said so" crowd.

Like Lady Gaga I was born that way and I'm working on it

 

[Meriweather]

Joy was not invented by Christianity.

Did I say it was an invention? There is a difference between inventing something and learning that something is within reach. I know a few Buddhists. While they can't speak for all, they are clear that their goal is equanimity and peace of mind. That doesn't mean they don't experience happiness or gladness either. I am speaking of an ultimate level for which one can strive. Perhaps you know more Buddhists. Ask them if the ultimate level is joy or if it is peace.

 

[Meriweather]

That has nothing to do with religion,

It has everything to do with religion when one defines religion and faith as a way of living.

 

[Blues Man]

Did I say it was an invention? There is a difference between inventing something and learning that something is within reach. I know a few Buddhists. While they can't speak for all, they are clear that their goal is equanimity and peace of mind. That doesn't mean they don't experience happiness or gladness either. I am speaking of an ultimate level for which one can strive. Perhaps you know more Buddhists. Ask them if the ultimate level is joy or if it is peace.

Enlightenment is joy.

I'm going into Buddhist speak for a minute

Enlightenment is the freedom from all clinging and desire and therefore the freedom from all suffering.

The very desire to experience joy prevents you from experiencing it because it that desire you cultivate the opposite of the very thing you desire.

But that does not imply that joy cannot be experienced it simply is not the end goal.