Zone1 I've been an atheist for 60 years and have never once been tempted to believe in any god

[Blues Man]

Not at all. It's cyclical. It's the saeculum cycle; winter, spring, summer fall.

Really? So when will it be on the upswing again ?

Religion has been dealt a mortal wound by reasoned secular thinking and will never be as prominent in society as it once was

 

[ding]

And is in decline even though you live in denial

By 2070 50% or less of Americans will be affiliated with religions. The trend is clear and the reasons are obvious.

Iron Age religions no longer can be forced to fit into modern society. The power of the Church is diminishing for the betterment of all

It's cyclical. When man becomes satisfied he becomes proud and forgets God and then he suffers. But from his suffering he remembers God, repents and returns to the behaviors that made them successful in the first place. And then the cycle repeats again.

 

[ding]

Really? So when will it be on the upswing again ?

Religion has been dealt a mortal wound by reasoned secular thinking and will never be as prominent in society as it once was

When we reach bottom and then rise from the ashes.

 

[Blues Man]

It's cyclical. When man becomes satisfied he becomes proud and forgets God and then he suffers. But from his suffering he remembers God, repents and returns to the behaviors that made them successful in the first place. And then the cycle repeats again.

Keep saying that if you need to.

 

[ding]

Religion has been dealt a mortal wound

I think that is wishful thinking on your part.

 

[Blues Man]

When we reach bottom and then rise from the ashes.

Not in your lifetime. You're just going to see the continued decline

 

[ding]

Keep saying that if you need to.

Been going on for thousands of years. The OT is literally the account of a people who cycled between remembering God and forgetting god. And described what happens because of it.

 

[ding]

Not in your lifetime. You're just going to see the continued decline

I wouldn't necessarily say that. I wouldn't be surprised if WWIII didn't start in the next 20 years.

 

[Blues Man]

I think that is wishful thinking on your part.

The numbers say differently.

Thousands of churches in the US closing down, the declining influence of the corrupt Catholic Church fewer children being indoctrinated by their parents

it's the death of 1000 cuts

 

[ding]

The numbers say differently.

Thousands of churches in the US closing down, the declining influence of the corrupt Catholic Church fewer children being indoctrinated by their parents

it's the death of 1000 cuts

Like I said, when they become satisfied they forget God. Not everyone everywhere is in our situation. And even then it is a massive reservoir of belief. You'd like to believe its demise is imminent but that just isn't the case. Religion and faith in God will continue despite your wish otherwise.

 

[BackAgain]

When I was 10 years old, we had a dog named Silver. A sealyham - sort of a largish Westie. He had been struck by a car when I was much younger and that had left him blind in one eye. We adapted. He adapted. But whenever he entered an unfamiliar space (the furniture moved, for instance) he would collide with things. I felt bad for him. Like most children my age I believed what I was told was the truth by my parents and the church they took me to. So I prayed as fervently and selflessly as I could manage that God would restore his vision. But, as would happen in any bad movie, his poor vision led Silver to wandering out in front of another car where he suffered another concussion which left him completely blind. Now all dogs go to heaven because all dogs are innocent. Every non-human form of life is innocent of the many sins the Bible spells out. Initially, I was angry. How could God cause my innocent dog to suffer, regardless of his motive or intent? The standard "mysterious ways" line didn't help at all. What did help was the realization that the best explanation was not that god was mysterious or unknowable, but that he simply wasn't there. The existence of the god described by the Bible and by our preacher and the believers I would talk with was simply not possible; not only because it violated all the laws of nature but because absolutely no evidence I could find supported the idea. Every thing I could learn about the world and how it worked refuted the idea of a caring, personal god who had created miraculous humans and a miraculous Earth to be their home and was everpresent, watching over us and, on proper supplication, violating the laws that he himself had set in place - if he felt like it.

As the years went by I simply became more and more convinced that there is a great deal about the working of the universe we do not yet know, but the basics - the principal of uniformitarianism, holds, everywhere and everywhen. Nothing is supernatural. No will directs or inspires the stream of events taking place over the passage of time. Only physics.

What signs or signals should I have caught that might have lured me back to my childhood faith? And how might my life have been different had I done so? I have lots of friends and I'm pretty sure most of them think I'm a nice guy. I buy fully and heartily into the Golden Rule. I believe it to be the sole basis of human civilization. How do you think my complete lack of divine faith hurt me? Will your god throw into a lake of fire because I led a good life but failed to do him obeisance? That is, of course, precisely what scriptures tells us. Why would ANY of you believe, much less WORSHIP such a god? He seems a monster. Would anyone care to correct me?

Why would anyone care about your atheism? What’s the point in sharing your basic disbelief?

Are you hoping to convert believers into becoming disbelievers? Why? What difference does it make in your life what other people believe?

 

[Blues Man]

Been going on for thousands of years. The OT is literally the account of a people who cycled between remembering God and forgetting god. And described what happens because of it.

The OT is nothing but an Iron Age religion invented in a time of horrific human suffering.

Did you never wonder why the OT never found footholds in China or India? It's because those societies didn't collapse like the Mesopotamian societies did.


Christianity was spread by the sword and forced upon untold millions of people thanks to the union of the church and monarchs and emperors,

It wasn't this peaceful realization that you seem to think it was.

 

[Blues Man]

Like I said, when they become satisfied they forget God. Not everyone everywhere is in our situation. And even then it is a massive reservoir of belief. You'd like to believe its demise is imminent but that just isn't the case. Religion and faith in God will continue despite your wish otherwise.

Yes I already agreed that the poor, the suffering and the uneducated are the perfect victims of religion.

But religion is dying among educated and will die a slow quiet death at the hands of reasoned secular humanism.

Too bad neither of us will be around in a century to see it.

 

[ding]

The OT is nothing but an Iron Age religion invented in a time of horrific human suffering.

Did you never wonder why the OT never found footholds in China or India? It's because those societies didn't collapse like the Mesopotamian societies did.


Christianity was spread by the sword and forced upon untold millions of people thanks to the union of the church and monarchs and emperors,

It wasn't this peaceful realization that you seem to think it was.

It literally records the history of a people who cycled between remembering and forgetting God. Literally.

 

[miketx]

When I was 10 years old, we had a dog named Silver. A sealyham - sort of a largish Westie. He had been struck by a car when I was much younger and that had left him blind in one eye. We adapted. He adapted. But whenever he entered an unfamiliar space (the furniture moved, for instance) he would collide with things. I felt bad for him. Like most children my age I believed what I was told was the truth by my parents and the church they took me to. So I prayed as fervently and selflessly as I could manage that God would restore his vision. But, as would happen in any bad movie, his poor vision led Silver to wandering out in front of another car where he suffered another concussion which left him completely blind. Now all dogs go to heaven because all dogs are innocent. Every non-human form of life is innocent of the many sins the Bible spells out. Initially, I was angry. How could God cause my innocent dog to suffer, regardless of his motive or intent? The standard "mysterious ways" line didn't help at all. What did help was the realization that the best explanation was not that god was mysterious or unknowable, but that he simply wasn't there. The existence of the god described by the Bible and by our preacher and the believers I would talk with was simply not possible; not only because it violated all the laws of nature but because absolutely no evidence I could find supported the idea. Every thing I could learn about the world and how it worked refuted the idea of a caring, personal god who had created miraculous humans and a miraculous Earth to be their home and was everpresent, watching over us and, on proper supplication, violating the laws that he himself had set in place - if he felt like it.

As the years went by I simply became more and more convinced that there is a great deal about the working of the universe we do not yet know, but the basics - the principal of uniformitarianism, holds, everywhere and everywhen. Nothing is supernatural. No will directs or inspires the stream of events taking place over the passage of time. Only physics.

What signs or signals should I have caught that might have lured me back to my childhood faith? And how might my life have been different had I done so? I have lots of friends and I'm pretty sure most of them think I'm a nice guy. I buy fully and heartily into the Golden Rule. I believe it to be the sole basis of human civilization. How do you think my complete lack of divine faith hurt me? Will your god throw into a lake of fire because I led a good life but failed to do him obeisance? That is, of course, precisely what scriptures tells us. Why would ANY of you believe, much less WORSHIP such a god? He seems a monster. Would anyone care to correct me?

No, you worship your God global warming.

 

[ding]

Yes I already agreed that the poor, the suffering and the uneducated are the perfect victims of religion.

But religion is dying among educated and will die a slow quiet death at the hands of reasoned secular humanism.

Too bad neither of us will be around in a century to see it.

Yes, I know you did and I addressed it. You just like to argue because you are a militant atheist who hates Christians.

 

[Meriweather]

I just told you; peace and joy.

You get those from other places than your religion. In fact there's no religion needed at all

Before Christianity there were related words, happiness, gladness, rejoice. But 'joy' essentially came with Christianity. It's interesting that Buddhism doesn't pursue emotions such as joy, but rather equanimity and peace of mind. Peace is also a hallmark of Christianity. Daily peace, daily joy.

No it just leads you into telling other people that only your way is the "right" way

As someone who grew up in a family of Buddhists, atheist, Catholics, and non-Catholic Christians, with Judaism tossed in along the way, anyone telling another that one's own way was the "right" way never surfaced. Being so unfamiliar with that ever taking place either at home, school, community, I find it utterly strange you keep harping about it. Who were all the people telling you their way was the "right" way? (I'm curious)

 

[Meriweather]

Not in your lifetime. You're just going to see the continued decline

Will we also continue to see the rise of depression and lack of joy? What say you?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Really? So when will it be on the upswing again ?

Religion has been dealt a mortal wound by reasoned secular thinking and will never be as prominent in society as it once was

That's right. Now that we no longer need to invent magical gods to explain the universe around us, their usefulness has all but disappeared. Now religion relies on brainwashing children. That cycle is breaking, as more children are born to atheists.

 

[Meriweather]

Now that we no longer need to invent magical gods

Isn't it ironic that it is atheists who invent/come up with magical versions of God. Meanwhile those who have experienced/believe in God are content with the reality.