Zone1 I've been an atheist for 60 years and have never once been tempted to believe in any god

[Blues Man]

No, that's not what I believe. Each person has to take their own path. There is no right way. But you will be subject to impositions along the way. And consequences will continue to reoccur until lessons are learned. People of faith struggle less with this than people with no faith.

Not really but you believe that if you have to.

 

[Blues Man]

It's cyclical. Suffering has a way of bringing people back to God. There are so many benefits to faith that it is illogical to have no faith.

yeah poor starving people are religion's preferred victims

Then people get educated have food and a place to live and they realize that religions are all just made up stuff

 

[ding]

Not really but you believe that if you have to.

I've tested it. Experienced both sides of it. It's not a belief. It's an observation.

 

[Blues Man]

I've tested it. Experienced both sides of it. It's not a belief. It's an observation.

Anecdotal so no better than an opinion

 

[ding]

yeah poor starving people are religion's preferred victims

Then people get educated have food and a place to live and they realize that religions are all just made up stuff

That's a silly and cynical way of looking at it. Apparently you'd rather their suffering continue. Faith and hope turn on all the learning centers of the mind. Rising from ashes is a pretty common and logical.

 

[ding]

Anecdotal so no better than an opinion

No, direct experience of both paths backed by science and logic. Your position is based upon your experiences and no science. That's biased with only one point of reference.

 

[Blues Man]

That's a silly and cynical way of looking at it. Apparently you'd rather their suffering continue. Faith and hope turn on all the learning centers of the mind. Rising from ashes is a pretty common and logical.

And yet it is true.

Your religion was invented in the Iron Age after the societal collapse at the end of the Bronze Age after people suffered through generational famine, drought , natural disasters and wars.

Since that is where your religion was invented it thrives best in similar conditions

 

[Blues Man]

No, direct experience of both paths backed by science and logic. Your position is based upon your experiences and no science. That's biased with only one point of reference.

Your singular experience is meaningless.

Anecdotal evidence is worthless.

And there are billions of Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, past and present that never needed your god or your religion to thrive.

 

[ding]

And yet it is true.

Your religion was invented in the Iron Age after the societal collapse at the end of the Bronze Age after people suffered through generational famine, drought , natural disasters and wars.

Since that is where your religion was invented it thrives best in similar conditions

I disagree. It goes back to my point that if that were true religion would have been discarded long ago. And I backed it up with my own personal testimony and logic.

 

[ding]

Your singular experience is meaningless.

Anecdotal evidence is worthless.

And there are billions of Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, past and present that never needed your god or your religion to thrive.

Coupled with history and logic it is all that is needed. Look at how unhappy you are that religion exists. It's really sad. It must be miserable seeing churches everywhere for you.

 

[Blues Man]

I disagree. It goes back to my point that if that were true religion would have been discarded long ago. And I backed it up with my own personal testimony and logic.

And it is in the process of being discarded today.

You are ignoring the political and monetary power of religion and how religious institutions worked hand in hand with monarchs and emperors to consolidate power and wealth

The RCC in particular became expert in the use of psychological control with threats of excommunication and false charges of heresy and blasphemy which at the time could ruin a person's livelihood and standing in society.

People were more afraid of the church than they were of any gods. But that shit doesn;t work anymore because we see through it where the illiterate poor of the past never could

Your god will go the way of the thunder gods, water gods fertility gods and the many other thousands of gods humans have worshiped and replaced. It is inevitable.

 

[Blues Man]

Coupled with history and logic it is all that is needed. Look at how unhappy you are that religion exists. It's really sad. It must be miserable seeing churches everywhere for you.

And yet more churches are closing every year. That must make you sad

 

[ding]

And it is in the process of being discarded today.

You are ignoring the political and monetary power of religion and how religious institutions worked hand in hand with monarchs and emperors to consolidate power and wealth

The RCC in particular became expert in the use of psychological control with threats of excommunication and false charges of heresy and blasphemy which at the time could ruin a person's livelihood and standing in society.

People were more afraid of the church than they were of any gods. But that shit doesn;t work anymore because we see through it where the illiterate poor of the past never could

Your god will go the way of the thunder gods, water gods fertility gods and the many other thousands of gods humans have worshiped and replaced. It is inevitable.

I disagree. The more materialist we become the less satisfied we become because we were made for more. That's never going to change.

 

[ding]

And yet more churches are closing every year. That must make you sad

The demise of religion is greatly exaggerated. And since I'm not the one crying about the demise of religion and you are the one who is crying religion hasn't gone away, who's the one really crying here?

 

[Blues Man]

I disagree. The more materialist we become the less satisfied we become because we were made for more. That's never going to change.

Religion’s Sudden Decline, Revisited | Center for Political Studies

cps.isr.umich.edu

From about 2007 to 2019, the overwhelming majority of the countries we studied—43 out of 49—became less religious. The decline in belief was not confined to high-income countries andappeared across most of the world.

Losing their religion: why US churches are on the decline

As the US adjusts to an increasingly non-religious population, thousands of churches are closing each year – probably accelerated by Covid

www.theguardian.com

As the US adjusts to an increasingly non-religious population, thousands of churches are closing each year in the country

In denial you are

 

[Blues Man]

The demise of religion is greatly exaggerated. And since I'm not the one crying about the demise of religion and you are the one who is crying religion hasn't gone away, who's the one really crying here?

Reason wins over superstition every time

 

[EvilCat Breath]

When I was 10 years old, we had a dog named Silver. A sealyham - sort of a largish Westie. He had been struck by a car when I was much younger and that had left him blind in one eye. We adapted. He adapted. But whenever he entered an unfamiliar space (the furniture moved, for instance) he would collide with things. I felt bad for him. Like most children my age I believed what I was told was the truth by my parents and the church they took me to. So I prayed as fervently and selflessly as I could manage that God would restore his vision. But, as would happen in any bad movie, his poor vision led Silver to wandering out in front of another car where he suffered another concussion which left him completely blind. Now all dogs go to heaven because all dogs are innocent. Every non-human form of life is innocent of the many sins the Bible spells out. Initially, I was angry. How could God cause my innocent dog to suffer, regardless of his motive or intent? The standard "mysterious ways" line didn't help at all. What did help was the realization that the best explanation was not that god was mysterious or unknowable, but that he simply wasn't there. The existence of the god described by the Bible and by our preacher and the believers I would talk with was simply not possible; not only because it violated all the laws of nature but because absolutely no evidence I could find supported the idea. Every thing I could learn about the world and how it worked refuted the idea of a caring, personal god who had created miraculous humans and a miraculous Earth to be their home and was everpresent, watching over us and, on proper supplication, violating the laws that he himself had set in place - if he felt like it.

As the years went by I simply became more and more convinced that there is a great deal about the working of the universe we do not yet know, but the basics - the principal of uniformitarianism, holds, everywhere and everywhen. Nothing is supernatural. No will directs or inspires the stream of events taking place over the passage of time. Only physics.

What signs or signals should I have caught that might have lured me back to my childhood faith? And how might my life have been different had I done so? I have lots of friends and I'm pretty sure most of them think I'm a nice guy. I buy fully and heartily into the Golden Rule. I believe it to be the sole basis of human civilization. How do you think my complete lack of divine faith hurt me? Will your god throw into a lake of fire because I led a good life but failed to do him obeisance? That is, of course, precisely what scriptures tells us. Why would ANY of you believe, much less WORSHIP such a god? He seems a monster. Would anyone care to correct me?

Odd that you don't believe in God but you do believe in mythic climate change.

Are the two connected in some way?

 

[ding]

Reason wins over superstition every time

Which is why religion still exists. Logical reasons.

 

[ding]

Religion’s Sudden Decline, Revisited | Center for Political Studies

cps.isr.umich.edu

From about 2007 to 2019, the overwhelming majority of the countries we studied—43 out of 49—became less religious. The decline in belief was not confined to high-income countries andappeared across most of the world.

Losing their religion: why US churches are on the decline

As the US adjusts to an increasingly non-religious population, thousands of churches are closing each year – probably accelerated by Covid

www.theguardian.com

As the US adjusts to an increasingly non-religious population, thousands of churches are closing each year in the country

In denial you are

Not at all. It's cyclical. It's the saeculum cycle; winter, spring, summer fall.

 

[Blues Man]

Which is why religion still exists. Logical reasons.

And is in decline even though you live in denial

By 2070 50% or less of Americans will be affiliated with religions. The trend is clear and the reasons are obvious.

Iron Age religions no longer can be forced to fit into modern society. The power of the Church is diminishing for the betterment of all