Jeb Bush: Next president should privatize Social Security

[NYcarbineer]

You said the 49 year old would get his payroll tax payments for 30 years back in a lump sum. With no interest?

And where will the money come from to pay SS benefits for everyone 50 and over, many who will collect for 20 years or more?

lol

The 49 year old is not in the withdrawal phase now is he? And you do realize that the interest on T bills has been about 1,something for most of the last 15 years and in the last 7 has been less than 1%

WOW what a fucking awesome return

And if there really is 2 trillion in the trust fund as you say why can't the government use that?

Interest Rates on Social Security Investments

The SS would use the Trust Fund if SS is privatized. They would cash in those treasuries, and every nickel of that has to come from general fund revenues,

just like any treasury bond or bill is paid off when it matures or is redeemed. That is the point.

Treasury Bills Constant Maturity Index Rate Yield Bonds Notes US 10 5 1 Year Rates

So now you're telling me that SS is paid from the general fund not the so called trust fund that only exists as an accounting entry.

Isn't that what I've been saying all along?

No, it's paid from the Trust Fund which invests its money in US securities. It's not an 'accounting entry' because the Trust Fund earns interest.

A Vanguard Money Market Fund:

Vanguard - Vanguard Federal Money Market Fund

96% invested in US securities. If you own this money market fund, you effectively own an IOU from the Federal Govt.

So the united states treasuy "invests" in itself?

IOW it's nothing but an accounting entry and therefore meaningless

Like I said if I used my employee's 401 K money to "invest" in my business and then paid any retirees from the money being contributed by current employees I'd be arrested. You wouldn't stand for it at your job but it's OK if the fucking government does it?

But I can't do that and do you know why?

Because my employees own their own accounts.

No. SS is separate distinct entity and is financed by dedicated funding. It is against the law for the general fund to take and spend payroll tax revenue as if it were income tax revenue.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Gamblers are not purchasing an asset. Investers are.

A lotto ticket is also an asset. Its worth $1 in my state.

Or do you think that those stocks do not actually represent anything?

They represent nothing more than the rights to a cash flow which is not known with certainty beforehand - thus - the same as gambling. The only real difference is the commissions and taxes are much higher on gambling.

Don't get me wrong - for professional investors, investing is more like blackjack than the slots. If you have a LOT of skill, you can gain a TINY edge, and if you work that edge enough, you can make a living off of it. But its still gambling.

You also do not invest in a single company or over very short terms for retirement investments. The only arguments that your side seem to have hinge on investing without a vehicle or any structure. A concept that should not and will not exist within a privatized SS system.

Most gamblers don't invest all their chips in one hand of blackjack or on one slot machine pull, either. What's your point?

So you don't understand long term investing either.

What a surprise

I understand it well enough to know there are millions of Americans like you blindly buying stock for long term investment without understanding much of anything about the underlying corporate entities or the even economy in general - and you appear to be one of them. The small minority of investors, mostly professionals, that spend incredulous amounts of time and energy digesting all of the markets informational inputs, are able to make a living off the millions of sheeple blindly buying stocks. When and if the shit hits the fan - even most of those investors will be put out of business, but the minority that remain and that profit off the disaster will be the ones who know well how unpredictable the market it and how blind most of its followers are.

I told you I don't buy a lot of individual stocks

I tend to concentrate on sectors of the economy and prefer ETFs

And if I'm making such poor decisions then why do I have funds that are consistently returning 9-13% over the past 15 years?

Well not every American can be a genius like you, lol.

btw, you're actually making the case that people can and should invest IN ADDITION to their SS,
and can do so successfully.

AND if they had some control over the 15% of their lifetime income that the government squanders they'd be able to retire with millions AND leave a legacy for future generations but the government can't have that now can it because the government does so much better when more people depend on it

And it has nothing to do with genius all it has to do with is taking some time to learn about money if you're too fucking stupid and or lazy to do that it's your own fault.

See if we owned our own accounts you'd be free to put it 100% in US treasuries and be guaranteed the poverty that SS promises.

And I wouldn't have to give up my returns so you could do so

 

[Skull Pilot]

The 49 year old is not in the withdrawal phase now is he? And you do realize that the interest on T bills has been about 1,something for most of the last 15 years and in the last 7 has been less than 1%

WOW what a fucking awesome return

And if there really is 2 trillion in the trust fund as you say why can't the government use that?

Interest Rates on Social Security Investments

The SS would use the Trust Fund if SS is privatized. They would cash in those treasuries, and every nickel of that has to come from general fund revenues,

just like any treasury bond or bill is paid off when it matures or is redeemed. That is the point.

Treasury Bills Constant Maturity Index Rate Yield Bonds Notes US 10 5 1 Year Rates

So now you're telling me that SS is paid from the general fund not the so called trust fund that only exists as an accounting entry.

Isn't that what I've been saying all along?

No, it's paid from the Trust Fund which invests its money in US securities. It's not an 'accounting entry' because the Trust Fund earns interest.

A Vanguard Money Market Fund:

Vanguard - Vanguard Federal Money Market Fund

96% invested in US securities. If you own this money market fund, you effectively own an IOU from the Federal Govt.

So the united states treasuy "invests" in itself?

IOW it's nothing but an accounting entry and therefore meaningless

Like I said if I used my employee's 401 K money to "invest" in my business and then paid any retirees from the money being contributed by current employees I'd be arrested. You wouldn't stand for it at your job but it's OK if the fucking government does it?

But I can't do that and do you know why?

Because my employees own their own accounts.

No. SS is separate distinct entity and is financed by dedicated funding. It is against the law for the general fund to take and spend payroll tax revenue as if it were income tax revenue.

And yet it does just that.

It's nothing but 2 accounting entries in the ledger that's all

It's called cooking the books

 

[NYcarbineer]

You said the 49 year old would get his payroll tax payments for 30 years back in a lump sum. With no interest?

And where will the money come from to pay SS benefits for everyone 50 and over, many who will collect for 20 years or more?

lol

The 49 year old is not in the withdrawal phase now is he? And you do realize that the interest on T bills has been about 1,something for most of the last 15 years and in the last 7 has been less than 1%

WOW what a fucking awesome return

And if there really is 2 trillion in the trust fund as you say why can't the government use that?

Interest Rates on Social Security Investments

The SS would use the Trust Fund if SS is privatized. They would cash in those treasuries, and every nickel of that has to come from general fund revenues,

just like any treasury bond or bill is paid off when it matures or is redeemed. That is the point.

Treasury Bills Constant Maturity Index Rate Yield Bonds Notes US 10 5 1 Year Rates

So now you're telling me that SS is paid from the general fund not the so called trust fund that only exists as an accounting entry.

Isn't that what I've been saying all along?

No, it's paid from the Trust Fund which invests its money in US securities. It's not an 'accounting entry' because the Trust Fund earns interest.

A Vanguard Money Market Fund:

Vanguard - Vanguard Federal Money Market Fund

96% invested in US securities. If you own this money market fund, you effectively own an IOU from the Federal Govt.

So the united states treasuy "invests" in itself?

IOW it's nothing but an accounting entry and therefore meaningless

Like I said if I used my employee's 401 K money to "invest" in my business and then paid any retirees from the money being contributed by current employees I'd be arrested. You wouldn't stand for it at your job but it's OK if the fucking government does it?

But I can't do that and do you know why?

Because my employees own their own accounts.

Pension funds invest money in government securities all the time. Including government pension funds. Where do you think military retirement funds are invested?

 

[NYcarbineer]

A lotto ticket is also an asset. Its worth $1 in my state.

They represent nothing more than the rights to a cash flow which is not known with certainty beforehand - thus - the same as gambling. The only real difference is the commissions and taxes are much higher on gambling.

Don't get me wrong - for professional investors, investing is more like blackjack than the slots. If you have a LOT of skill, you can gain a TINY edge, and if you work that edge enough, you can make a living off of it. But its still gambling.

Most gamblers don't invest all their chips in one hand of blackjack or on one slot machine pull, either. What's your point?

So you don't understand long term investing either.

What a surprise

I understand it well enough to know there are millions of Americans like you blindly buying stock for long term investment without understanding much of anything about the underlying corporate entities or the even economy in general - and you appear to be one of them. The small minority of investors, mostly professionals, that spend incredulous amounts of time and energy digesting all of the markets informational inputs, are able to make a living off the millions of sheeple blindly buying stocks. When and if the shit hits the fan - even most of those investors will be put out of business, but the minority that remain and that profit off the disaster will be the ones who know well how unpredictable the market it and how blind most of its followers are.

I told you I don't buy a lot of individual stocks

I tend to concentrate on sectors of the economy and prefer ETFs

And if I'm making such poor decisions then why do I have funds that are consistently returning 9-13% over the past 15 years?

Well not every American can be a genius like you, lol.

btw, you're actually making the case that people can and should invest IN ADDITION to their SS,
and can do so successfully.

AND if they had some control over the 15% of their lifetime income that the government squanders they'd be able to retire with millions AND leave a legacy for future generations but the government can't have that now can it because the government does so much better when more people depend on it

And it has nothing to do with genius all it has to do with is taking some time to learn about money if you're too fucking stupid and or lazy to do that it's your own fault.

See if we owned our own accounts you'd be free to put it 100% in US treasuries and be guaranteed the poverty that SS promises.

And I wouldn't have to give up my returns so you could do so

You can draw SS. What makes you think you can't?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Interest Rates on Social Security Investments

The SS would use the Trust Fund if SS is privatized. They would cash in those treasuries, and every nickel of that has to come from general fund revenues,

just like any treasury bond or bill is paid off when it matures or is redeemed. That is the point.

Treasury Bills Constant Maturity Index Rate Yield Bonds Notes US 10 5 1 Year Rates

So now you're telling me that SS is paid from the general fund not the so called trust fund that only exists as an accounting entry.

Isn't that what I've been saying all along?

No, it's paid from the Trust Fund which invests its money in US securities. It's not an 'accounting entry' because the Trust Fund earns interest.

A Vanguard Money Market Fund:

Vanguard - Vanguard Federal Money Market Fund

96% invested in US securities. If you own this money market fund, you effectively own an IOU from the Federal Govt.

So the united states treasuy "invests" in itself?

IOW it's nothing but an accounting entry and therefore meaningless

Like I said if I used my employee's 401 K money to "invest" in my business and then paid any retirees from the money being contributed by current employees I'd be arrested. You wouldn't stand for it at your job but it's OK if the fucking government does it?

But I can't do that and do you know why?

Because my employees own their own accounts.

No. SS is separate distinct entity and is financed by dedicated funding. It is against the law for the general fund to take and spend payroll tax revenue as if it were income tax revenue.

And yet it does just that.

It's nothing but 2 accounting entries in the ledger that's all

It's called cooking the books

So are my direct deposits to the credit union. Do you really think that when my pension is directly deposited into my credit union account that some guy drives from the pension office to the bank with a bag of money?

Goddam you are stupid.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The 49 year old is not in the withdrawal phase now is he? And you do realize that the interest on T bills has been about 1,something for most of the last 15 years and in the last 7 has been less than 1%

WOW what a fucking awesome return

And if there really is 2 trillion in the trust fund as you say why can't the government use that?

Interest Rates on Social Security Investments

The SS would use the Trust Fund if SS is privatized. They would cash in those treasuries, and every nickel of that has to come from general fund revenues,

just like any treasury bond or bill is paid off when it matures or is redeemed. That is the point.

Treasury Bills Constant Maturity Index Rate Yield Bonds Notes US 10 5 1 Year Rates

So now you're telling me that SS is paid from the general fund not the so called trust fund that only exists as an accounting entry.

Isn't that what I've been saying all along?

No, it's paid from the Trust Fund which invests its money in US securities. It's not an 'accounting entry' because the Trust Fund earns interest.

A Vanguard Money Market Fund:

Vanguard - Vanguard Federal Money Market Fund

96% invested in US securities. If you own this money market fund, you effectively own an IOU from the Federal Govt.

So the united states treasuy "invests" in itself?

IOW it's nothing but an accounting entry and therefore meaningless

Like I said if I used my employee's 401 K money to "invest" in my business and then paid any retirees from the money being contributed by current employees I'd be arrested. You wouldn't stand for it at your job but it's OK if the fucking government does it?

But I can't do that and do you know why?

Because my employees own their own accounts.

Pension funds invest money in government securities all the time. Including government pension funds. Where do you think military retirement funds are invested?

That has nothing to do with the so called SS trust fund now does it?

And it's not the investing it's the crooked accounting.

The USA buys it's own bonds with tax dollars and then buys them back with US tax dollars but they never really are bought back because all the FICA taxes go into the general fund it's circular accounting at its best

B

 

[Skull Pilot]

Treasury Bills Constant Maturity Index Rate Yield Bonds Notes US 10 5 1 Year Rates

So now you're telling me that SS is paid from the general fund not the so called trust fund that only exists as an accounting entry.

Isn't that what I've been saying all along?

No, it's paid from the Trust Fund which invests its money in US securities. It's not an 'accounting entry' because the Trust Fund earns interest.

A Vanguard Money Market Fund:

Vanguard - Vanguard Federal Money Market Fund

96% invested in US securities. If you own this money market fund, you effectively own an IOU from the Federal Govt.

So the united states treasuy "invests" in itself?

IOW it's nothing but an accounting entry and therefore meaningless

Like I said if I used my employee's 401 K money to "invest" in my business and then paid any retirees from the money being contributed by current employees I'd be arrested. You wouldn't stand for it at your job but it's OK if the fucking government does it?

But I can't do that and do you know why?

Because my employees own their own accounts.

No. SS is separate distinct entity and is financed by dedicated funding. It is against the law for the general fund to take and spend payroll tax revenue as if it were income tax revenue.

And yet it does just that.

It's nothing but 2 accounting entries in the ledger that's all

It's called cooking the books

So are my direct deposits to the credit union. Do you really think that when my pension is directly deposited into my credit union account that some guy drives from the pension office to the bank with a bag of money?

Goddam you are stupid.

An electronic deposit is still a deposit or didn't you know that?

There are no deposits made into the SS trust fund SS is paid from the general fund.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So you don't understand long term investing either.

What a surprise

I understand it well enough to know there are millions of Americans like you blindly buying stock for long term investment without understanding much of anything about the underlying corporate entities or the even economy in general - and you appear to be one of them. The small minority of investors, mostly professionals, that spend incredulous amounts of time and energy digesting all of the markets informational inputs, are able to make a living off the millions of sheeple blindly buying stocks. When and if the shit hits the fan - even most of those investors will be put out of business, but the minority that remain and that profit off the disaster will be the ones who know well how unpredictable the market it and how blind most of its followers are.

I told you I don't buy a lot of individual stocks

I tend to concentrate on sectors of the economy and prefer ETFs

And if I'm making such poor decisions then why do I have funds that are consistently returning 9-13% over the past 15 years?

Well not every American can be a genius like you, lol.

btw, you're actually making the case that people can and should invest IN ADDITION to their SS,
and can do so successfully.

AND if they had some control over the 15% of their lifetime income that the government squanders they'd be able to retire with millions AND leave a legacy for future generations but the government can't have that now can it because the government does so much better when more people depend on it

And it has nothing to do with genius all it has to do with is taking some time to learn about money if you're too fucking stupid and or lazy to do that it's your own fault.

See if we owned our own accounts you'd be free to put it 100% in US treasuries and be guaranteed the poverty that SS promises.

And I wouldn't have to give up my returns so you could do so

You can draw SS. What makes you think you can't?

Where did I say I can't?

I said I'd have a lot more to retire on if I was able to exercise control over my own money instead of the fucking crooks in government

 

[NYcarbineer]

No, it's paid from the Trust Fund which invests its money in US securities. It's not an 'accounting entry' because the Trust Fund earns interest.

A Vanguard Money Market Fund:

Vanguard - Vanguard Federal Money Market Fund

96% invested in US securities. If you own this money market fund, you effectively own an IOU from the Federal Govt.

So the united states treasuy "invests" in itself?

IOW it's nothing but an accounting entry and therefore meaningless

Like I said if I used my employee's 401 K money to "invest" in my business and then paid any retirees from the money being contributed by current employees I'd be arrested. You wouldn't stand for it at your job but it's OK if the fucking government does it?

But I can't do that and do you know why?

Because my employees own their own accounts.

No. SS is separate distinct entity and is financed by dedicated funding. It is against the law for the general fund to take and spend payroll tax revenue as if it were income tax revenue.

And yet it does just that.

It's nothing but 2 accounting entries in the ledger that's all

It's called cooking the books

So are my direct deposits to the credit union. Do you really think that when my pension is directly deposited into my credit union account that some guy drives from the pension office to the bank with a bag of money?

Goddam you are stupid.

An electronic deposit is still a deposit or didn't you know that?

There are no deposits made into the SS trust fund SS is paid from the general fund.

No they are not. Payroll taxes cannot go into the general fund. They cannot be mixed. They can only be loaned to the general fund.

That is irrefutable fact. You need to get over it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Interest Rates on Social Security Investments

The SS would use the Trust Fund if SS is privatized. They would cash in those treasuries, and every nickel of that has to come from general fund revenues,

just like any treasury bond or bill is paid off when it matures or is redeemed. That is the point.

Treasury Bills Constant Maturity Index Rate Yield Bonds Notes US 10 5 1 Year Rates

So now you're telling me that SS is paid from the general fund not the so called trust fund that only exists as an accounting entry.

Isn't that what I've been saying all along?

No, it's paid from the Trust Fund which invests its money in US securities. It's not an 'accounting entry' because the Trust Fund earns interest.

A Vanguard Money Market Fund:

Vanguard - Vanguard Federal Money Market Fund

96% invested in US securities. If you own this money market fund, you effectively own an IOU from the Federal Govt.

So the united states treasuy "invests" in itself?

IOW it's nothing but an accounting entry and therefore meaningless

Like I said if I used my employee's 401 K money to "invest" in my business and then paid any retirees from the money being contributed by current employees I'd be arrested. You wouldn't stand for it at your job but it's OK if the fucking government does it?

But I can't do that and do you know why?

Because my employees own their own accounts.

Pension funds invest money in government securities all the time. Including government pension funds. Where do you think military retirement funds are invested?

That has nothing to do with the so called SS trust fund now does it?

And it's not the investing it's the crooked accounting.

The USA buys it's own bonds with tax dollars and then buys them back with US tax dollars but they never really are bought back because all the FICA taxes go into the general fund it's circular accounting at its best

B

Wrong. The payroll tax revenues buy the bonds. The bonds collect interest. The trust fund is the investment portfolio of the SSA.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

There are only three independent 40 year periods over the history of reliable stock indices in the U.S. Are you claiming you can do statistics with only three sample points?

Then look at 20 year periods.

20 years means you've got 6 independent sample points. Wow. Not much of a sample buddy, can't do much statistics with that.

Over it's existence the market has returned about 10%

Shit even if you got 7% over your working career that money taken for SS would still amount to over a million dollars in your retirement fund

You are only looking at the U.S. stock market. The U.S. stock market isn't special, its subject to the same economic forces any stock market is. Its performance over the past 100 years or so is exceptional compared to the rest of the world - it is a statistical outlier.

Yes the stock market fluctuates so what?

When has it never come back?

The Nikkei average still hasn't come back from its peak in late 1989. But I forget, you only do statistics with winners. The U.S. stock market is and special, like you.

Worst case scenario if your portfolio takes a hit right before you retire you put off retirement for a bit

Yeah, a bit, like until after you're dead.

But if you follow the strategy of reducing your exposure to equities as you near retirement you'll be able to weather any market turbulence

Really? That's all it takes, huh?

So if you convert your stocks into bank deposits - interest rates won't go down, right?
If you convert your stocks into corporate debt - corporations won't go bankrupt, right?
If you convert your stocks into government debt - well, you wouldn't do that, because government debt is worthless.

So just the Nikkei?

How about NASDAQ

You don't covert stocks to bank deposits.

You either sell them and cash out or sell them to buy another investment.

And how does buying a bond (debt) bankrupt a company?

Besides in a retirement account the point is to preserve capital as you near the age when you will need it then invest so as to get a stable ROR (optimally somewhere around 5%) while making withdrawals

You don't actually even follow any market news at all, do you? There is no fixed income investment that can "weather any market turbulence" and deliver 5%. Not to mention, since you are interested more in the history of the economy rather than its future, 5% would not have covered inflation on many ocassions in the past. Inflation is low now but to presume it will stay far enough below 5% that you won't have to start dipping into your principal is ludicrous. Even now, with inflation around 2%, you still only return 3% so you require 30 X your annual income requirements to retire an arbitrary number of years.

Far more sensible to invest your retirement in a life annuity with an insurance company (or multiple companies, to spread your risk). That way you only need the amount of money required for an average retirement length. Its a lot cheaper that way, unless your life plan is to work much more than you actually have to (or to die young)

 

[kaz]

That should be where the safety net kicks in.
And you obviously have to have limits on what you can invest in based on your age and ability to take care of yourself if you fail.
There are plenty of safe options out there that if taken advantage of early will provide a nice nest egg with very little risk.

So, if I understand you, you are saying that I should pay into social security but only be allowed to access it if I am desperate?

No,you should be able to use a portion of your money to invest leaving some as a safety net.

That is what we currently have.

No it's not.

Yes, it is. You pay into the system for the safety net. You use a portion of your money to invest. What is different?

No money is "invested," Sparky. The government gets it in and immediately spends it. There is no so called trust fund, there are no assets. Go figure, politicians are lying to you. Who saw that coming? Certainly not you.

 

[kaz]

Treasury Bills Constant Maturity Index Rate Yield Bonds Notes US 10 5 1 Year Rates

So now you're telling me that SS is paid from the general fund not the so called trust fund that only exists as an accounting entry.

Isn't that what I've been saying all along?

No, it's paid from the Trust Fund which invests its money in US securities. It's not an 'accounting entry' because the Trust Fund earns interest.

A Vanguard Money Market Fund:

Vanguard - Vanguard Federal Money Market Fund

96% invested in US securities. If you own this money market fund, you effectively own an IOU from the Federal Govt.

So the united states treasuy "invests" in itself?

IOW it's nothing but an accounting entry and therefore meaningless

Like I said if I used my employee's 401 K money to "invest" in my business and then paid any retirees from the money being contributed by current employees I'd be arrested. You wouldn't stand for it at your job but it's OK if the fucking government does it?

But I can't do that and do you know why?

Because my employees own their own accounts.

Pension funds invest money in government securities all the time. Including government pension funds. Where do you think military retirement funds are invested?

That has nothing to do with the so called SS trust fund now does it?

And it's not the investing it's the crooked accounting.

The USA buys it's own bonds with tax dollars and then buys them back with US tax dollars but they never really are bought back because all the FICA taxes go into the general fund it's circular accounting at its best

B

Wrong. The payroll tax revenues buy the bonds. The bonds collect interest. The trust fund is the investment portfolio of the SSA.

Government collects income tax and puts it in the general fund. Government collects payroll taxes and put them in the general fund. Government sends checks out of the general fund to retirees. Government sends checks out to everyone else they fund.

Explain where in that something is saved and interest is paid

 

[NYcarbineer]

No, it's paid from the Trust Fund which invests its money in US securities. It's not an 'accounting entry' because the Trust Fund earns interest.

A Vanguard Money Market Fund:

Vanguard - Vanguard Federal Money Market Fund

96% invested in US securities. If you own this money market fund, you effectively own an IOU from the Federal Govt.

So the united states treasuy "invests" in itself?

IOW it's nothing but an accounting entry and therefore meaningless

Like I said if I used my employee's 401 K money to "invest" in my business and then paid any retirees from the money being contributed by current employees I'd be arrested. You wouldn't stand for it at your job but it's OK if the fucking government does it?

But I can't do that and do you know why?

Because my employees own their own accounts.

Pension funds invest money in government securities all the time. Including government pension funds. Where do you think military retirement funds are invested?

That has nothing to do with the so called SS trust fund now does it?

And it's not the investing it's the crooked accounting.

The USA buys it's own bonds with tax dollars and then buys them back with US tax dollars but they never really are bought back because all the FICA taxes go into the general fund it's circular accounting at its best

B

Wrong. The payroll tax revenues buy the bonds. The bonds collect interest. The trust fund is the investment portfolio of the SSA.

Government collects income tax and puts it in the general fund. Government collects payroll taxes and put them in the general fund. Government sends checks out of the general fund to retirees. Government sends checks out to everyone else they fund.

Explain where in that something is saved and interest is paid

No they do not .

"The Social Security Trust Fund was created in 1939 as part of the Amendments enacted in that year. From its inception, the Trust Fund has always worked the same way. The Social Security Trust Fund has never been "put into the general fund of the government."

Social Security History

 

[Toro]

Government collects income tax and puts it in the general fund. Government collects payroll taxes and put them in the general fund. Government sends checks out of the general fund to retirees. Government sends checks out to everyone else they fund.

Explain where in that something is saved and interest is paid

Social Security works like a government bond fund. The trusts are debited and credited based on cash flows in and out of the trusts plus interest. The only difference is that the government does not issue securities for the liabilities. Rather, the liabilities are a book entry on the government's balance sheet rather than as securities on the government's balance sheet.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Government collects income tax and puts it in the general fund. Government collects payroll taxes and put them in the general fund. Government sends checks out of the general fund to retirees. Government sends checks out to everyone else they fund.

Explain where in that something is saved and interest is paid

Social Security works like a government bond fund. The trusts are debited and credited based on cash flows in and out of the trusts plus interest. The only difference is that the government does not issue securities for the liabilities. Rather, the liabilities are a book entry on the government's balance sheet rather than as securities on the government's balance sheet.

Investments held at end of month

 

[BluesLegend]

So, if I understand you, you are saying that I should pay into social security but only be allowed to access it if I am desperate?

No,you should be able to use a portion of your money to invest leaving some as a safety net.

That is what we currently have.

No it's not.

Yes, it is. You pay into the system for the safety net. You use a portion of your money to invest. What is different?

No money is "invested," Sparky. The government gets it in and immediately spends it. There is no so called trust fund, there are no assets. Go figure, politicians are lying to you. Who saw that coming? Certainly not you.

Exactly and when SS benefits exceeded SS contributions during Obama's term they funded it by borrowing money and adding to the deficit. All the additional SS taxes Reagan asked us to make to build up a surplus to cover the baby boomer surge in SS benefits, those assholes in congress used OUR money as a damn slush fund and spent it all leaving us worthless IOU's they have no way of paying.

Now the options are, raise SS taxes again forcing us to pay the freaking money a 2nd time since the assholes spent it all, reduce or deny benefits via means testing stiffing people who were forced to pay into SS for decades, and push the retirement age higher hoping people will just die before they can collect a dime. A crime family mob boss could only dream of such a racket.

 

[nat4900]

those assholes in congress used OUR money as a damn slush fund and spent it all

Did you think that Bush's wars were cheap and no one needed to pay for the trillions wasted?

 

[The Rabbi]

those assholes in congress used OUR money as a damn slush fund and spent it all

Did you think that Bush's wars were cheap and no one needed to pay for the trillions wasted?

Do you think he's talking about the last 10 years only? Obama has spent more money than every other president combined.