Jeb Bush: Next president should privatize Social Security

[Judicial review]

Look no further than the Chilean model for Social Security. So successful people are retiring 50% earlier. I'm very shocked that Bush supports it. Very happy, though.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

11

People on retirement pensions, investment returns, Social Security, etc., live on their month to month checks. They can not afford to take large cuts during recessions and slow downs and wait years for things to get better. A person dependent on stock market returns can not tell the electric company, landlord, bank or whoever to wait about three of four years until the market rebounds.
The gamble is that if a recession hits anytime during you retirement, and you depend on a stock portfolio for income, you may have absolutely no income and be forced to sell your holdings at great losses just to survive. When the market rebounds you will have a shrunken portfolio and hence, a reduced retirement income.

What a steaming pile.

Leftism is truly based on ignorance and bigotry. People who retire move money into various sources. Money market, bond, secured equities. Your bullshit myth about retirees having all their funds in stock for Solyndra is a complete fabrication.

The VAST majority of people investing in IRA and 401K use brokerage funds which diversify by nature. for an 18 year old - the most unstable, fly by night stock is vastly more secure than Social Security. IF the USA exists in 50 years, Social Security sure won't.

Enron was a better investment than Social Security? pets.com? lol

Enron and Google better investments than SSN? Absolutely. Of course you only want to focus solely on companies that went out of business in the most extreme manner while ignoring anything else.

And since such an investment ‘strategy’ is simply not going to be the case you have nothing at all.

So you are saying just don't invest in companies that will fail. Brilliant strategy. Can I borrow your time machine?

None required. If you understood anything about investment, you would not need one.

Ahh, so if you just "understand" investment - you can actually predict the future. Is that some sort of Power Marketing New Brain scam?

All you have is focusing on short term disaster without ever looking at long term benefits of actually investing.

Most ordinary folks don't have the luxury of ignoring short term disasters.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Successful investment has very little to do with anyone's choices....

Right, Successful investors are just lucky.

Sarcasm aside, YES, they are just as "lucky" as the professional GAMBLER who plays the odds...sometimes it works and most of the time it does not.....NO casino ever went broke from "succesful" gamblers.

Sigh, again with the gambling reference that shows you are utterly ignorant of what investing is.

Investing is not gambling by any measure whatsoever.

Other than the more favorable tax treatment for investing, explain how it is different.

Gamblers are not purchasing an asset. Investers are.

A lotto ticket is also an asset. Its worth $1 in my state.

Or do you think that those stocks do not actually represent anything?

They represent nothing more than the rights to a cash flow which is not known with certainty beforehand - thus - the same as gambling. The only real difference is the commissions and taxes are much higher on gambling.

Don't get me wrong - for professional investors, investing is more like blackjack than the slots. If you have a LOT of skill, you can gain a TINY edge, and if you work that edge enough, you can make a living off of it. But its still gambling.

You also do not invest in a single company or over very short terms for retirement investments. The only arguments that your side seem to have hinge on investing without a vehicle or any structure. A concept that should not and will not exist within a privatized SS system.

Most gamblers don't invest all their chips in one hand of blackjack or on one slot machine pull, either. What's your point?

 

[FA_Q2]

11

What a steaming pile.

Leftism is truly based on ignorance and bigotry. People who retire move money into various sources. Money market, bond, secured equities. Your bullshit myth about retirees having all their funds in stock for Solyndra is a complete fabrication.

The VAST majority of people investing in IRA and 401K use brokerage funds which diversify by nature. for an 18 year old - the most unstable, fly by night stock is vastly more secure than Social Security. IF the USA exists in 50 years, Social Security sure won't.

Enron was a better investment than Social Security? pets.com? lol

Enron and Google better investments than SSN? Absolutely. Of course you only want to focus solely on companies that went out of business in the most extreme manner while ignoring anything else.

And since such an investment ‘strategy’ is simply not going to be the case you have nothing at all.

So you are saying just don't invest in companies that will fail. Brilliant strategy. Can I borrow your time machine?

None required. If you understood anything about investment, you would not need one.

Ahh, so if you just "understand" investment - you can actually predict the future. Is that some sort of Power Marketing New Brain scam?

All you have is focusing on short term disaster without ever looking at long term benefits of actually investing.

Most ordinary folks don't have the luxury of ignoring short term disasters.

Never mind.

You are obviously too happy with your complete ignorance and idiocy to even bother understanding what anyone else states.

We bow to your significant knowledge on this subject and ignore the vast sea of facts and history that shows you are utterly incorrect. The real world examples must be fake and the investment vehicles and their history are fabrications because it is obvious that your one liners and idiotic questions already answered that you are far beyond such a pithy thing like reality.

 

[nat4900]

Look no further than the Chilean model for Social Security. So successful people are retiring 50% earlier. I'm very shocked that Bush supports it. Very happy, though.

Yep.....there's a whole bunch of 30-35 years old Chilean just sitting around collecting their hefty retirement benefits, correct?

 

[nat4900]

t seems that they cannot understand such a simple concept. I don't know why I am still bothering.

Sure, nitwit get off the forum and go and count the millions you made off your sure-fire "investments."

 

[Skull Pilot]

Two final questions (had enough of right wing dimwits):

1. Prior to 1935 there was NO social security but...as we well know...there was a stock market......where individuals could do all (or most) the nifty things that thick-Skull is flaunting.................So, what the fuck happened?

2. Given the "independent" mindset of thick-Skull wanting to abolish the mandate of the Feds with SS....would he/she/it be willing to forgo (by lifetime endorsement) ANY safety nets established by the Feds.....such as FDIC, UE, Workers Comp, etc.?

Hey Sheep I said to keep the savings mandatory the only difference would be that instead of the government owning the money and using it as a slush fund the individual would own the account the money is in and be able to exercise some choice as to how it is invested.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Two final questions (had enough of right wing dimwits):

1. Prior to 1935 there was NO social security but...as we well know...there was a stock market......where individuals could do all (or most) the nifty things that thick-Skull is flaunting.................So, what the fuck happened?

2. Given the "independent" mindset of thick-Skull wanting to abolish the mandate of the Feds with SS....would he/she/it be willing to forgo (by lifetime endorsement) ANY safety nets established by the Feds.....such as FDIC, UE, Workers Comp, etc.?

What happened was, with rare exception, everyone all fucked up at the same time and bought stock at inflated prices - and - MORE IMPORTANTLY - people's incomes went down when the stocks were priced the best. Skull Pilot believes he is special - he believes his income is not subject to forces of the general economy - and he also believes the U.S. stock market is special and not subject to the same forces as the rest of the world's stock markets (OR - he hasn't bothered to evaluate the performance of the rest of the world's markets).

The dollar-average investing myth is perhaps the biggest investing lie ever told. It requires the investor exist in a vacuum, with his own income not subject to the same economic forces as the rest of the economy. Without that vacuum, the average investor's income would ten to go DOWN when stocks were priced the LOWEST - and would go UP when stocks are priced the HIGHEST - thus making the dollar averaged investing goal not possible over the long term for the typical retirement investor.

So your income is linked to the stock market?

Mine isn't and never was.

When the tech bubble burst I didn't get a cut in pay

I didn't get a cut in pay when the last financial meltdown happened

Did you?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Why ar you so fearful? Do you need a psychiatrist?

I've read history.

Really which history?

The history of the stock market than has had positive returns in any 40 year period of its existence?

There are only three independent 40 year periods over the history of reliable stock indices in the U.S. Are you claiming you can do statistics with only three sample points?

Then look at 20 year periods.

20 years means you've got 6 independent sample points. Wow. Not much of a sample buddy, can't do much statistics with that.

Over it's existence the market has returned about 10%

Shit even if you got 7% over your working career that money taken for SS would still amount to over a million dollars in your retirement fund

You are only looking at the U.S. stock market. The U.S. stock market isn't special, its subject to the same economic forces any stock market is. Its performance over the past 100 years or so is exceptional compared to the rest of the world - it is a statistical outlier.

Yes the stock market fluctuates so what?

When has it never come back?

Worst case scenario if your portfolio takes a hit right before you retire you put off retirement for a bit

But if you follow the strategy of reducing your exposure to equities as you near retirement you'll be able to weather any market turbulence

 

[Skull Pilot]

More liberal demagoguery. Bush is talking about privatizing SS for people who are under a certain age--like 50 or 55. If you already have SS, this would not affect you. If you are over 50 or 55, you could choose to stay in SS or opt out and get a reduced benefit. If you're under the age cutoff, then you would have the opportunity to take your SS tax money and invest it as you saw fit.

Are liberals not aware that most private companies have changed from defined-benefit plans to 401Ks? That is basically all the government would be doing by changing from SS to 401Ks and IRAs.

What happens to all the payroll tax the 49 year old made, possibly for 30 years?

You mean the payroll taxes that were taken from him don't you?

The payroll taxes he paid into SS.

The ones taken from him.

If he opts out he should get it all back in a lump sum as well as his employer's match to invest as he chooses

Okay, which further proves that the general fund will have to come up with trillions to pay off current recipients.

Oh, btw, you're going to force this guy OUT of the SS system he's been paying into for 30 years, without any return on the money he's been paying in for 30 years?

You are a fucking imbecile.

Do you not understand the concept of grandfathering?

People already collecting will not benefit from having their money in a private account as they are already in the withdrawal phase

 

[Skull Pilot]

No it costs nothing to privatize SS as each person will own his own account and there will be no government necessary

You have millions of Americans on SS now and millions who have paid in for years.

The annual revenue from payroll taxes is being used to pay current recipients and thus maintain the invested Trust Fund, which yields 100 billion in interest annually.

Privatization means the payroll tax no longer goes to recipients or the Trust Fund, it stays with the individual.

That means SS has to use up the Trust Fund, in other words, call in its notes at the expense of the general fund, aka you the taxpayer.

There is no trust fund and SS is paid out of the general fund.

You grandfather in everyone over a certain age and give everyone the option of going private

There's where you show your ignorance because there is a Trust Fund.

Yeah with ZERO dollars in it. So there really isn't one

There are 2 trillion dollars worth of US treasury securities in the Trust Fund. Are you too stupid to know their value?

Then tell me why do I make out the check for payroll taxes to the US treasury and not the Social Security Administration?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Right, Successful investors are just lucky.

Sarcasm aside, YES, they are just as "lucky" as the professional GAMBLER who plays the odds...sometimes it works and most of the time it does not.....NO casino ever went broke from "succesful" gamblers.

Sigh, again with the gambling reference that shows you are utterly ignorant of what investing is.

Investing is not gambling by any measure whatsoever.

Other than the more favorable tax treatment for investing, explain how it is different.

Gamblers are not purchasing an asset. Investers are.

A lotto ticket is also an asset. Its worth $1 in my state.

Or do you think that those stocks do not actually represent anything?

They represent nothing more than the rights to a cash flow which is not known with certainty beforehand - thus - the same as gambling. The only real difference is the commissions and taxes are much higher on gambling.

Don't get me wrong - for professional investors, investing is more like blackjack than the slots. If you have a LOT of skill, you can gain a TINY edge, and if you work that edge enough, you can make a living off of it. But its still gambling.

You also do not invest in a single company or over very short terms for retirement investments. The only arguments that your side seem to have hinge on investing without a vehicle or any structure. A concept that should not and will not exist within a privatized SS system.

Most gamblers don't invest all their chips in one hand of blackjack or on one slot machine pull, either. What's your point?

So you don't understand long term investing either.

What a surprise

 

[NYcarbineer]

What happens to all the payroll tax the 49 year old made, possibly for 30 years?

You mean the payroll taxes that were taken from him don't you?

The payroll taxes he paid into SS.

The ones taken from him.

If he opts out he should get it all back in a lump sum as well as his employer's match to invest as he chooses

Okay, which further proves that the general fund will have to come up with trillions to pay off current recipients.

Oh, btw, you're going to force this guy OUT of the SS system he's been paying into for 30 years, without any return on the money he's been paying in for 30 years?

You are a fucking imbecile.

Do you not understand the concept of grandfathering?

People already collecting will not benefit from having their money in a private account as they are already in the withdrawal phase

You said the 49 year old would get his payroll tax payments for 30 years back in a lump sum. With no interest?

And where will the money come from to pay SS benefits for everyone 50 and over, many who will collect for 20 years or more?

lol

 

[NYcarbineer]

You have millions of Americans on SS now and millions who have paid in for years.

The annual revenue from payroll taxes is being used to pay current recipients and thus maintain the invested Trust Fund, which yields 100 billion in interest annually.

Privatization means the payroll tax no longer goes to recipients or the Trust Fund, it stays with the individual.

That means SS has to use up the Trust Fund, in other words, call in its notes at the expense of the general fund, aka you the taxpayer.

There is no trust fund and SS is paid out of the general fund.

You grandfather in everyone over a certain age and give everyone the option of going private

There's where you show your ignorance because there is a Trust Fund.

Yeah with ZERO dollars in it. So there really isn't one

There are 2 trillion dollars worth of US treasury securities in the Trust Fund. Are you too stupid to know their value?

Then tell me why do I make out the check for payroll taxes to the US treasury and not the Social Security Administration?

Let's ask a certified public accountant:

Borenstein: Various payroll taxes are withheld from an employee’s wages. The rates for Social Security taxes and Medicare taxes in 2011 are 4.2 percent and 1.45 percent, respectively. These taxes are used to pay for the federal programs: They are credited to the Social Security and Medicare trust funds, and the employee is credited with having paid into both.

Where Do Payroll Taxes Go CPA Michael Borenstein Breaks Em Down QuickBooks

 

[Skull Pilot]

You mean the payroll taxes that were taken from him don't you?

The payroll taxes he paid into SS.

The ones taken from him.

If he opts out he should get it all back in a lump sum as well as his employer's match to invest as he chooses

Okay, which further proves that the general fund will have to come up with trillions to pay off current recipients.

Oh, btw, you're going to force this guy OUT of the SS system he's been paying into for 30 years, without any return on the money he's been paying in for 30 years?

You are a fucking imbecile.

Do you not understand the concept of grandfathering?

People already collecting will not benefit from having their money in a private account as they are already in the withdrawal phase

You said the 49 year old would get his payroll tax payments for 30 years back in a lump sum. With no interest?

And where will the money come from to pay SS benefits for everyone 50 and over, many who will collect for 20 years or more?

lol

The 49 year old is not in the withdrawal phase now is he? And you do realize that the interest on T bills has been about 1,something for most of the last 15 years and in the last 7 has been less than 1%

WOW what a fucking awesome return

And if there really is 2 trillion in the trust fund as you say why can't the government use that?

 

[Skull Pilot]

There is no trust fund and SS is paid out of the general fund.

You grandfather in everyone over a certain age and give everyone the option of going private

There's where you show your ignorance because there is a Trust Fund.

Yeah with ZERO dollars in it. So there really isn't one

There are 2 trillion dollars worth of US treasury securities in the Trust Fund. Are you too stupid to know their value?

Then tell me why do I make out the check for payroll taxes to the US treasury and not the Social Security Administration?

Let's ask a certified public accountant:

Borenstein: Various payroll taxes are withheld from an employee’s wages. The rates for Social Security taxes and Medicare taxes in 2011 are 4.2 percent and 1.45 percent, respectively. These taxes are used to pay for the federal programs: They are credited to the Social Security and Medicare trust funds, and the employee is credited with having paid into both.

Where Do Payroll Taxes Go CPA Michael Borenstein Breaks Em Down QuickBooks

You might want to check your numbers

FICA consists of a 6.2% tax for SS and a 1.45% tax for Medicare

And you said the trust only has T bills in it so I guess the government takes the money the buys T bills from itself and then "credits" the trust fund huh?

 

[NYcarbineer]

There's where you show your ignorance because there is a Trust Fund.

Yeah with ZERO dollars in it. So there really isn't one

There are 2 trillion dollars worth of US treasury securities in the Trust Fund. Are you too stupid to know their value?

Then tell me why do I make out the check for payroll taxes to the US treasury and not the Social Security Administration?

Let's ask a certified public accountant:

Borenstein: Various payroll taxes are withheld from an employee’s wages. The rates for Social Security taxes and Medicare taxes in 2011 are 4.2 percent and 1.45 percent, respectively. These taxes are used to pay for the federal programs: They are credited to the Social Security and Medicare trust funds, and the employee is credited with having paid into both.

Where Do Payroll Taxes Go CPA Michael Borenstein Breaks Em Down QuickBooks

You might want to check your numbers

FICA consists of a 6.2% tax for SS and a 1.45% tax for Medicare

And you said the trust only has T bills in it so I guess the government takes the money the buys T bills from itself and then "credits" the trust fund huh?

That link is from 2011 when the payroll tax cut was in effect. You're flailing now.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yeah with ZERO dollars in it. So there really isn't one

There are 2 trillion dollars worth of US treasury securities in the Trust Fund. Are you too stupid to know their value?

Then tell me why do I make out the check for payroll taxes to the US treasury and not the Social Security Administration?

Let's ask a certified public accountant:

Borenstein: Various payroll taxes are withheld from an employee’s wages. The rates for Social Security taxes and Medicare taxes in 2011 are 4.2 percent and 1.45 percent, respectively. These taxes are used to pay for the federal programs: They are credited to the Social Security and Medicare trust funds, and the employee is credited with having paid into both.

Where Do Payroll Taxes Go CPA Michael Borenstein Breaks Em Down QuickBooks

You might want to check your numbers

FICA consists of a 6.2% tax for SS and a 1.45% tax for Medicare

And you said the trust only has T bills in it so I guess the government takes the money the buys T bills from itself and then "credits" the trust fund huh?

That link is from 2011 when the payroll tax cut was in effect. You're flailing now.

So why would you use that instead of the correct number?

At least i use accurate numbers

 

[NYcarbineer]

The payroll taxes he paid into SS.

The ones taken from him.

If he opts out he should get it all back in a lump sum as well as his employer's match to invest as he chooses

Okay, which further proves that the general fund will have to come up with trillions to pay off current recipients.

Oh, btw, you're going to force this guy OUT of the SS system he's been paying into for 30 years, without any return on the money he's been paying in for 30 years?

You are a fucking imbecile.

Do you not understand the concept of grandfathering?

People already collecting will not benefit from having their money in a private account as they are already in the withdrawal phase

You said the 49 year old would get his payroll tax payments for 30 years back in a lump sum. With no interest?

And where will the money come from to pay SS benefits for everyone 50 and over, many who will collect for 20 years or more?

lol

The 49 year old is not in the withdrawal phase now is he? And you do realize that the interest on T bills has been about 1,something for most of the last 15 years and in the last 7 has been less than 1%

WOW what a fucking awesome return

And if there really is 2 trillion in the trust fund as you say why can't the government use that?

Interest Rates on Social Security Investments

The SS would use the Trust Fund if SS is privatized. They would cash in those treasuries, and every nickel of that has to come from general fund revenues,

just like any treasury bond or bill is paid off when it matures or is redeemed. That is the point.

 

[NYcarbineer]

There are 2 trillion dollars worth of US treasury securities in the Trust Fund. Are you too stupid to know their value?

Then tell me why do I make out the check for payroll taxes to the US treasury and not the Social Security Administration?

Let's ask a certified public accountant:

Borenstein: Various payroll taxes are withheld from an employee’s wages. The rates for Social Security taxes and Medicare taxes in 2011 are 4.2 percent and 1.45 percent, respectively. These taxes are used to pay for the federal programs: They are credited to the Social Security and Medicare trust funds, and the employee is credited with having paid into both.

Where Do Payroll Taxes Go CPA Michael Borenstein Breaks Em Down QuickBooks

You might want to check your numbers

FICA consists of a 6.2% tax for SS and a 1.45% tax for Medicare

And you said the trust only has T bills in it so I guess the government takes the money the buys T bills from itself and then "credits" the trust fund huh?

That link is from 2011 when the payroll tax cut was in effect. You're flailing now.

So why would you use that instead of the correct number?

At least i use accurate numbers

The link was from 2011. The facts about where he says the money goes are the same today as they were then. Stop being a shit.