Jeb Bush: Next president should privatize Social Security

[OohPooPahDoo]

Moronic.........First, NO ONE is stating that SS should be your ONLY retirement asset.

Second, you or anyone else is free to gamble your other assets in the stock market or real estate or a winery.....

But that's what people believe. They think SS is there for them until they realize it's not enough by then they are screwed. I've seen it a million times. 2000 dollars a month to live on is not enough.

So what you're saying is people are generally irresponsible when it comes to retirement planning.

Likely so.
Why do you believe that people should not be responsible for their poor choices?

Investment choices are usually only known to be poor after the fact.

Not true. You should try investing sometime.

I have invested in stocks, bonds, and options for nearly the last 20 years.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

I'm sorry, but anyone who peruses this board for ten minutes realizes there are A LOT of rubes in this world. And those rubes are ripe for the plucking by financial frauds who will strip them and leave them naked in the street.

And then those millions upon million upon millions of bankrupt rubes will demand the government support them when they turn 65 and have no nest egg.

I'm sure Wall Street loooooooooves the idea of more money falling into their hands. Love, love, love it.

Why do you have to pay someone to invest for you when you can do it yourself.

Shit you can look up Warren Buffet's portfolio and copy it if you want just get an E trade account and pay a small fee for each trade

If you are pedestrian moron, yes, you can copy Warren Buffet's portfolio.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Investment choices are usually only known to be poor after the fact.

You did not answer my question. Please give it a shot.

Because their "poor choices" are only know to be poor after the fact. That's the answer.

How does that answer follow with any degree of soundness from the question?
You make a bad decision -- how am I responsible for it?

Whoever said you were?

You.
You want the state to cover people when they make poor choices.
That makes me responsible.

That's not what social security retirement does. Social security is an insurance system. Are you familiar with insurance? Ever heard of it? Its paid for by the people who use it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Jesus christ, what is wrong with this nut?

"
WASHINGTON – Jeb Bush thinks the next president will need to privatize Social Security, he said at a town hall meeting in New Hampshire on Tuesday – acknowledging that his brother attempted to do so and failed. It’s a position sure to be attacked by both Republicans and Democrats.

Bush has previously said he would support raising the retirement age to get Social Security benefits, a common position among Republicans. And he backed a partial privatization that House Republicans have proposed that would allow people to choose private accounts.

The future of Social Security has become one of the most hotly contested issues in national politics, and both parties have accused the other of threatening its survival. Republicans argue that Democrats’ refusal to change the program will lead to its bankruptcy. Democrats sayprivatization would kill the program and leave elderly Americans at the mercy of the stock market. Plus, any discussion of changing the system often creates fear in older Americans beyond or nearing the age of retirement, who also tend to vote in the greatest numbers.

Republicans have split on the answer to fix the program, which could begin to pay out more than it takes in as more baby boomers retire and younger generations aren’t able to pay enough into the system to keep it going. Understanding the fear privatization proposals create, some Republicans have argued that the retirement age should be increased or means-testing established instead. Many Democrats advocate raising the ceiling for the tax that funds it.
"

Jeb Bush Next president should privatize Social Security
The one good thing is, he will never get elected now..

Yeah god forbid people control the 15% of their lifetime income and actually be able to retire financially secure instead of the government stealing it for their off the books slush fund

This is really why its best for all. Morons like you look back and see "Oh, look, the stock market out-performed social security, in the PAST", and then you make predictions about the future based on that, completely ignoring three things 1) its the future 2) the past results would have been vastly different if ss funds had been dumped into the market 3) actual gains are never as good as the index because - people make less in bad economies and more in good economies, meaning they tend to invest more when stock prices are high and less when they are low.

Over ANY 40 year period the market has had positive returns well above Treasury Bills

That's awesome, when you figure out how I can invest $1 today in a stock present in 1975, let me know.

Look up dollar cost averaging maybe you'll learn something

That's great, you read a few pages on investing, and you think you're Warren Buffet now. This is exactly why its good morons like you are forced to buy retirement insurance - to insure you against your own false sense of intelligence.

Dollar cost averaging fails the ordinary worker because the ordinary worker, on average, faces lay-offs and stagnant wages when stocks are priced low and tends to receive his pay raises and more hours when stocks are priced high - THEREFORE - the inescapable economic reality is that workers have less money to invest when stocks are priced low and more money to invest when stocks are priced high. This is in fact part of what drives the swings in the stock market. DERP. The average investor does not beat the market.


Tell me - honestly - you are doing dollar cost averaging, right? How long have you been investing the same amount of money in terms of total dollars? 5 years ? 10 years? You get a raise, you don't start investing more? If you get laid off - do you plan on keeping up your dollar cost investing?

I've been dollar cost averaging since I was 18 and could buy investments.

You see unlike you sheep I did put my pay raises and tax return refunds into savings and those months out of the year when I got 3 checks instead of two the entire third check went into my portfolio.

As it is today I own my own business and we invest about 30% of our gross income every year

Just because you don't have the discipline to save doesn't mean the government should take my money to prop you up.

And it's time in the market that makes you money.

Do the math start from when you were 18 and figure out how much you would have today if you put 15% of your income into a diversified portfolio with a conservative ROR of 7% and tell me you wouldn't be ahead of the game

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

People living off of social security alone do live in poverty.

If all you depend on is SSI you are poor dude.

Moronic.........First, NO ONE is stating that SS should be your ONLY retirement asset.

Second, you or anyone else is free to gamble your other assets in the stock market or real estate or a winery.....

But that's what people believe. They think SS is there for them until they realize it's not enough by then they are screwed. I've seen it a million times. 2000 dollars a month to live on is not enough.

So what you're saying is people are generally irresponsible when it comes to retirement planning.

BTW, most people in retirement get most of their cash income from social security.

Thats because they've been conditioned to think SS IS their retirement. If they didnt have SS they would know they had to provide for themselves.

They've been "conditioned" ? So you think of people like dogs, basically?

How exactly is that even true? Seems to be something you are presuming.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I'm sorry, but anyone who peruses this board for ten minutes realizes there are A LOT of rubes in this world. And those rubes are ripe for the plucking by financial frauds who will strip them and leave them naked in the street.

And then those millions upon million upon millions of bankrupt rubes will demand the government support them when they turn 65 and have no nest egg.

I'm sure Wall Street loooooooooves the idea of more money falling into their hands. Love, love, love it.

Why do you have to pay someone to invest for you when you can do it yourself.

Shit you can look up Warren Buffet's portfolio and copy it if you want just get an E trade account and pay a small fee for each trade

If you are pedestrian moron, yes, you can copy Warren Buffet's portfolio.

Yeah I'm sure you do better than he does right?

BTW that was simply an example to illustrate that you do not have to pay anyone to manage your money.

I didn't expect you to understand

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Jesus christ, what is wrong with this nut?
Jeb Bush Next president should privatize Social Security
The one good thing is, he will never get elected now..

Yeah god forbid people control the 15% of their lifetime income and actually be able to retire financially secure instead of the government stealing it for their off the books slush fund

This is really why its best for all. Morons like you look back and see "Oh, look, the stock market out-performed social security, in the PAST", and then you make predictions about the future based on that, completely ignoring three things 1) its the future 2) the past results would have been vastly different if ss funds had been dumped into the market 3) actual gains are never as good as the index because - people make less in bad economies and more in good economies, meaning they tend to invest more when stock prices are high and less when they are low.

Over ANY 40 year period the market has had positive returns well above Treasury Bills

That's awesome, when you figure out how I can invest $1 today in a stock present in 1975, let me know.

Look up dollar cost averaging maybe you'll learn something

That's great, you read a few pages on investing, and you think you're Warren Buffet now. This is exactly why its good morons like you are forced to buy retirement insurance - to insure you against your own false sense of intelligence.

Dollar cost averaging fails the ordinary worker because the ordinary worker, on average, faces lay-offs and stagnant wages when stocks are priced low and tends to receive his pay raises and more hours when stocks are priced high - THEREFORE - the inescapable economic reality is that workers have less money to invest when stocks are priced low and more money to invest when stocks are priced high. This is in fact part of what drives the swings in the stock market. DERP. The average investor does not beat the market.


Tell me - honestly - you are doing dollar cost averaging, right? How long have you been investing the same amount of money in terms of total dollars? 5 years ? 10 years? You get a raise, you don't start investing more? If you get laid off - do you plan on keeping up your dollar cost investing?

I've been dollar cost averaging since I was 18 and could buy investments.

So you're only putting aside the same monthly amount in savings that you were when you were 18 ?

As it is today I own my own business and we invest about 30% of our gross income every year

Uhh, I hate to break it to you, but that's not dollar cost averaging dude.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

I'm sorry, but anyone who peruses this board for ten minutes realizes there are A LOT of rubes in this world. And those rubes are ripe for the plucking by financial frauds who will strip them and leave them naked in the street.

And then those millions upon million upon millions of bankrupt rubes will demand the government support them when they turn 65 and have no nest egg.

I'm sure Wall Street loooooooooves the idea of more money falling into their hands. Love, love, love it.

Why do you have to pay someone to invest for you when you can do it yourself.

Shit you can look up Warren Buffet's portfolio and copy it if you want just get an E trade account and pay a small fee for each trade

If you are pedestrian moron, yes, you can copy Warren Buffet's portfolio.

Yeah I'm sure you do better than he does right?

BTW that was simply an example to illustrate that you do not have to pay anyone to manage your money.

I didn't expect you to understand

It doesn't matter how Warren Buffet has done, it only matters how good he will do. Why do you insist that it is somehow possible to invest money in past returns?

Not to mention the fact that to really model his portfolio, you'd have to have BRK.A, not BRK.B, and that's not practical for most investors.

 

[M14 Shooter]

You did not answer my question. Please give it a shot.

Because their "poor choices" are only know to be poor after the fact. That's the answer.

How does that answer follow with any degree of soundness from the question?
You make a bad decision -- how am I responsible for it?

Whoever said you were?

You.
You want the state to cover people when they make poor choices.
That makes me responsible.

That's not what social security retirement does.

Social security does not cover people who make poor retirement investment choices?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

I'm sorry, but anyone who peruses this board for ten minutes realizes there are A LOT of rubes in this world. And those rubes are ripe for the plucking by financial frauds who will strip them and leave them naked in the street.

And then those millions upon million upon millions of bankrupt rubes will demand the government support them when they turn 65 and have no nest egg.

I'm sure Wall Street loooooooooves the idea of more money falling into their hands. Love, love, love it.

Why do you have to pay someone to invest for you when you can do it yourself.

Shit you can look up Warren Buffet's portfolio and copy it if you want just get an E trade account and pay a small fee for each trade

If you are pedestrian moron, yes, you can copy Warren Buffet's portfolio.

Yeah I'm sure you do better than he does right?

BTW that was simply an example to illustrate that you do not have to pay anyone to manage your money.

I didn't expect you to understand

It doesn't matter how Warren Buffet has done, it only matters how good he will do. Why do you insist that its possible

Because their "poor choices" are only know to be poor after the fact. That's the answer.

How does that answer follow with any degree of soundness from the question?
You make a bad decision -- how am I responsible for it?

Whoever said you were?

You.
You want the state to cover people when they make poor choices.
That makes me responsible.

That's not what social security retirement does.

Social security does not cover people who make poor retirement investment choices?

It prevents them from squandering 15% of their money on poor investment choices, yes.

Retirement insurance should be the foundation of any retirement portfolio, as the biggest uncertainty about retirement is how long one will live.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yeah god forbid people control the 15% of their lifetime income and actually be able to retire financially secure instead of the government stealing it for their off the books slush fund

This is really why its best for all. Morons like you look back and see "Oh, look, the stock market out-performed social security, in the PAST", and then you make predictions about the future based on that, completely ignoring three things 1) its the future 2) the past results would have been vastly different if ss funds had been dumped into the market 3) actual gains are never as good as the index because - people make less in bad economies and more in good economies, meaning they tend to invest more when stock prices are high and less when they are low.

Over ANY 40 year period the market has had positive returns well above Treasury Bills

That's awesome, when you figure out how I can invest $1 today in a stock present in 1975, let me know.

Look up dollar cost averaging maybe you'll learn something

That's great, you read a few pages on investing, and you think you're Warren Buffet now. This is exactly why its good morons like you are forced to buy retirement insurance - to insure you against your own false sense of intelligence.

Dollar cost averaging fails the ordinary worker because the ordinary worker, on average, faces lay-offs and stagnant wages when stocks are priced low and tends to receive his pay raises and more hours when stocks are priced high - THEREFORE - the inescapable economic reality is that workers have less money to invest when stocks are priced low and more money to invest when stocks are priced high. This is in fact part of what drives the swings in the stock market. DERP. The average investor does not beat the market.


Tell me - honestly - you are doing dollar cost averaging, right? How long have you been investing the same amount of money in terms of total dollars? 5 years ? 10 years? You get a raise, you don't start investing more? If you get laid off - do you plan on keeping up your dollar cost investing?

I've been dollar cost averaging since I was 18 and could buy investments.

So you're only putting aside the same monthly amount in savings that you were when you were 18 ?

As it is today I own my own business and we invest about 30% of our gross income every year

Uhh, I hate to break it to you, but that's not dollar cost averaging dude.

I don't need to dollar cost average any more idiot.

When I was working for other people I did save a set amount of money every month. When I got a raise I added it to the savings. When I got those third paychecks in a month I saved those, I saved every dime of my tax returns as well.

It's called discipline.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I'm sorry, but anyone who peruses this board for ten minutes realizes there are A LOT of rubes in this world. And those rubes are ripe for the plucking by financial frauds who will strip them and leave them naked in the street.

And then those millions upon million upon millions of bankrupt rubes will demand the government support them when they turn 65 and have no nest egg.

I'm sure Wall Street loooooooooves the idea of more money falling into their hands. Love, love, love it.

Why do you have to pay someone to invest for you when you can do it yourself.

Shit you can look up Warren Buffet's portfolio and copy it if you want just get an E trade account and pay a small fee for each trade

If you are pedestrian moron, yes, you can copy Warren Buffet's portfolio.

Yeah I'm sure you do better than he does right?

BTW that was simply an example to illustrate that you do not have to pay anyone to manage your money.

I didn't expect you to understand

It doesn't matter how Warren Buffet has done, it only matters how good he will do. Why do you insist that its possible

How does that answer follow with any degree of soundness from the question?
You make a bad decision -- how am I responsible for it?

Whoever said you were?

You.
You want the state to cover people when they make poor choices.
That makes me responsible.

That's not what social security retirement does.

Social security does not cover people who make poor retirement investment choices?

It prevents them from squandering 15% of their money on poor investment choices, yes.

Retirement insurance should be the foundation of any retirement portfolio, as the biggest uncertainty about retirement is how long one will live.

You'd be better off putting that money into an equity indexed annuity (as poor of a decision that is) than giving it to the crooks in government.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

This is really why its best for all. Morons like you look back and see "Oh, look, the stock market out-performed social security, in the PAST", and then you make predictions about the future based on that, completely ignoring three things 1) its the future 2) the past results would have been vastly different if ss funds had been dumped into the market 3) actual gains are never as good as the index because - people make less in bad economies and more in good economies, meaning they tend to invest more when stock prices are high and less when they are low.

Over ANY 40 year period the market has had positive returns well above Treasury Bills

That's awesome, when you figure out how I can invest $1 today in a stock present in 1975, let me know.

Look up dollar cost averaging maybe you'll learn something

That's great, you read a few pages on investing, and you think you're Warren Buffet now. This is exactly why its good morons like you are forced to buy retirement insurance - to insure you against your own false sense of intelligence.

Dollar cost averaging fails the ordinary worker because the ordinary worker, on average, faces lay-offs and stagnant wages when stocks are priced low and tends to receive his pay raises and more hours when stocks are priced high - THEREFORE - the inescapable economic reality is that workers have less money to invest when stocks are priced low and more money to invest when stocks are priced high. This is in fact part of what drives the swings in the stock market. DERP. The average investor does not beat the market.


Tell me - honestly - you are doing dollar cost averaging, right? How long have you been investing the same amount of money in terms of total dollars? 5 years ? 10 years? You get a raise, you don't start investing more? If you get laid off - do you plan on keeping up your dollar cost investing?

I've been dollar cost averaging since I was 18 and could buy investments.

So you're only putting aside the same monthly amount in savings that you were when you were 18 ?

As it is today I own my own business and we invest about 30% of our gross income every year

Uhh, I hate to break it to you, but that's not dollar cost averaging dude.

I don't need to dollar cost average any more idiot.

Then why did you say "I've been dollar cost averaging since I was 18" ?

When I was working for other people I did save a set amount of money every month. When I got a raise I added it to the savings.

That's not dollar cost averaging, either.

When I got those third paychecks is a month I saved those, I saved every dime of my tax returns as well.

Also, not dollar cost averaging.

It's called discipline.

But its definitely not called dollar cost averaging.

 

[NYcarbineer]

To privatize Social Security, you would have to end the payroll taxes going into the Trust Fund - because they would be going into private accounts or just back to the taxpayer.

That means the use of the annual payroll tax revenue to pay current retirees would end. That would mean the Trust Fund in its entirety, 2 billion+ currently, would have to be used. That is borrowed federal money everyone talks about...

...that would have to come out of the general fund, aka, your income taxes, etc.

 

[Davey T]

Jesus christ, what is wrong with this nut?

"
WASHINGTON – Jeb Bush thinks the next president will need to privatize Social Security, he said at a town hall meeting in New Hampshire on Tuesday – acknowledging that his brother attempted to do so and failed. It’s a position sure to be attacked by both Republicans and Democrats.

Bush has previously said he would support raising the retirement age to get Social Security benefits, a common position among Republicans. And he backed a partial privatization that House Republicans have proposed that would allow people to choose private accounts.

The future of Social Security has become one of the most hotly contested issues in national politics, and both parties have accused the other of threatening its survival. Republicans argue that Democrats’ refusal to change the program will lead to its bankruptcy. Democrats sayprivatization would kill the program and leave elderly Americans at the mercy of the stock market. Plus, any discussion of changing the system often creates fear in older Americans beyond or nearing the age of retirement, who also tend to vote in the greatest numbers.

Republicans have split on the answer to fix the program, which could begin to pay out more than it takes in as more baby boomers retire and younger generations aren’t able to pay enough into the system to keep it going. Understanding the fear privatization proposals create, some Republicans have argued that the retirement age should be increased or means-testing established instead. Many Democrats advocate raising the ceiling for the tax that funds it.
"

Jeb Bush Next president should privatize Social Security
The one good thing is, he will never get elected now..

SSI is the worst of immoral ponzi schemes that was set up as a lie and steals from one to give to another. It will not last and it cannot last. Those are the facts. Now, how to fix it? I say, the government destroyed it because it thought it needed the money more than the people who put it in. Now, we should not keep it in the government's dirty hands.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

I'm sorry, but anyone who peruses this board for ten minutes realizes there are A LOT of rubes in this world. And those rubes are ripe for the plucking by financial frauds who will strip them and leave them naked in the street.

And then those millions upon million upon millions of bankrupt rubes will demand the government support them when they turn 65 and have no nest egg.

I'm sure Wall Street loooooooooves the idea of more money falling into their hands. Love, love, love it.

Why do you have to pay someone to invest for you when you can do it yourself.

Shit you can look up Warren Buffet's portfolio and copy it if you want just get an E trade account and pay a small fee for each trade

If you are pedestrian moron, yes, you can copy Warren Buffet's portfolio.

Yeah I'm sure you do better than he does right?

BTW that was simply an example to illustrate that you do not have to pay anyone to manage your money.

I didn't expect you to understand

It doesn't matter how Warren Buffet has done, it only matters how good he will do. Why do you insist that its possible

Whoever said you were?

You.
You want the state to cover people when they make poor choices.
That makes me responsible.

That's not what social security retirement does.

Social security does not cover people who make poor retirement investment choices?

It prevents them from squandering 15% of their money on poor investment choices, yes.

Retirement insurance should be the foundation of any retirement portfolio, as the biggest uncertainty about retirement is how long one will live.

You'd be better off putting that money into an equity indexed annuity (as poor of a decision that is) than giving it to the crooks in government.

So your portfolio has zero government bonds in it?

 

[Skull Pilot]

I'm sorry, but anyone who peruses this board for ten minutes realizes there are A LOT of rubes in this world. And those rubes are ripe for the plucking by financial frauds who will strip them and leave them naked in the street.

And then those millions upon million upon millions of bankrupt rubes will demand the government support them when they turn 65 and have no nest egg.

I'm sure Wall Street loooooooooves the idea of more money falling into their hands. Love, love, love it.

Why do you have to pay someone to invest for you when you can do it yourself.

Shit you can look up Warren Buffet's portfolio and copy it if you want just get an E trade account and pay a small fee for each trade

If you are pedestrian moron, yes, you can copy Warren Buffet's portfolio.

Yeah I'm sure you do better than he does right?

BTW that was simply an example to illustrate that you do not have to pay anyone to manage your money.

I didn't expect you to understand

It doesn't matter how Warren Buffet has done, it only matters how good he will do. Why do you insist that its possible

How does that answer follow with any degree of soundness from the question?
You make a bad decision -- how am I responsible for it?

Whoever said you were?

You.
You want the state to cover people when they make poor choices.
That makes me responsible.

That's not what social security retirement does.

Social security does not cover people who make poor retirement investment choices?

It prevents them from squandering 15% of their money on poor investment choices, yes.

Retirement insurance should be the foundation of any retirement portfolio, as the biggest uncertainty about retirement is how long one will live.

Sorry but if you took the 15% the government steals from you and saved another 15% you'd have plenty to live on no matter how logn you lived and you'd be able to leave some to your family

 

[M14 Shooter]

I'm sorry, but anyone who peruses this board for ten minutes realizes there are A LOT of rubes in this world. And those rubes are ripe for the plucking by financial frauds who will strip them and leave them naked in the street.

And then those millions upon million upon millions of bankrupt rubes will demand the government support them when they turn 65 and have no nest egg.

I'm sure Wall Street loooooooooves the idea of more money falling into their hands. Love, love, love it.

Why do you have to pay someone to invest for you when you can do it yourself.

Shit you can look up Warren Buffet's portfolio and copy it if you want just get an E trade account and pay a small fee for each trade

If you are pedestrian moron, yes, you can copy Warren Buffet's portfolio.

Yeah I'm sure you do better than he does right?

BTW that was simply an example to illustrate that you do not have to pay anyone to manage your money.

I didn't expect you to understand

It doesn't matter how Warren Buffet has done, it only matters how good he will do. Why do you insist that its possible

How does that answer follow with any degree of soundness from the question?
You make a bad decision -- how am I responsible for it?

Whoever said you were?

You.
You want the state to cover people when they make poor choices.
That makes me responsible.

That's not what social security retirement does.

Social security does not cover people who make poor retirement investment choices?

It prevents them from squandering 15% of their money on poor investment choices, yes.

And so, its not really insurance. Thank you.

I ask again: You make a bad decision -- how am I responsible for it?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Why do you have to pay someone to invest for you when you can do it yourself.

Shit you can look up Warren Buffet's portfolio and copy it if you want just get an E trade account and pay a small fee for each trade

If you are pedestrian moron, yes, you can copy Warren Buffet's portfolio.

Yeah I'm sure you do better than he does right?

BTW that was simply an example to illustrate that you do not have to pay anyone to manage your money.

I didn't expect you to understand

It doesn't matter how Warren Buffet has done, it only matters how good he will do. Why do you insist that its possible

You.
You want the state to cover people when they make poor choices.
That makes me responsible.

That's not what social security retirement does.

Social security does not cover people who make poor retirement investment choices?

It prevents them from squandering 15% of their money on poor investment choices, yes.

Retirement insurance should be the foundation of any retirement portfolio, as the biggest uncertainty about retirement is how long one will live.

You'd be better off putting that money into an equity indexed annuity (as poor of a decision that is) than giving it to the crooks in government.

So your portfolio has zero government bonds in it?

Bonds are a very small part of my portfolio right now. Less than 10%

 

[NYcarbineer]

Hey Sheep do some math.

Take 15% of your lifetime income and do a calculation of how much you would have if you got a 7% return on that over your life time then tell me that SS is a better deal

The current payroll tax is 6.2%. Not 15%. You can put the other 8.8% wherever you want.

Your employer matches it or didn't you know that?

The total of all FICA taxes is 7.5 from the employee and 7.5% from the employer or 15% of the employee's income.

Let people have that 15% to invest and no one would need medicare.

People wouldn't invest it.

You are aware aren't you that seniors without income get all the welfare benefits that anyone else gets.