Jesus Camp

[Flopper]

[MENTION=40845]Jeremiah[/MENTION]: Thank you for 'inviting' me to this thread. It will be a refreshing alternative to the Israel/Palestine section where there is nothing but name calling; my brief perusal of this thread shows some actual discourse. I only wish you 'invited' me before you posted your 'review' as I have yet to watch the full video (thank you to ?? for posting the link) but I will just as soon as I am done with this post.

However my first take from just 'Goggling' it and watching the trailer and some other comments are this:

I am not so sure that such intense indoctrination of young children into an intense Christian belief is as productive as we believe it should or could be. Maybe productive is the wrong word. But young children's minds can be molded so easily it is . . . . or could be pathetic and wrong. Look to the teachings in 'Palestine' schools. I believe that young children should be informed, but also allowed to grow up on their own without too much influence one way or another. After all, they have a fresh slate, an open mind, and are innocents.

Of course who am I to say when or where Jesus should call his chosen. For me, I did have quite a bit of exposure to Jesus and Christianity while in those years, but it wasn't until I had grown up and made plenty of mistakes and sinned a-plenty that I could actually understand exactly what sin was and how to accept Jesus Christ as my personal saviour. So that's just me.

I'll go and watch the movie now. I am subscribed. See you folks tomorrow or so . . .

Although I'm a Christian, I think it is far better that children be raised to respect others and lead a moral life without having any religion pushed down their throat. When they are old enough, expose them to religious doctrine and let them choose their path. Six and eight year old children just follow in their parents footsteps, adopting whatever religion their parents push upon them.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Hi Flopper. Then there is this:

Mark 10:14-16 Suffer the little children to come unto me and forbid them not, for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.

Mt 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

He was referring to children in both passages, and them believing in Him at a young age. And suggested we all look upon the kingdom of God like they do.

The earlier you teach your children about Christ the sooner they can benefit from knowing Him in their daily lives. Wait to long and Satan may get to them before you do.

 

[AtheistBuddah]

If I remember it correctly, it was about the brainwashing of impressionable children. A difference between that and Jim Jones is that Jones attracted malleable and gullible adults as well as children.

One of the scenes I remember was some sort of praying to a big cardboard cut out of George Bush. Really wacky, as I remember, but then, I despise Bush.

As for satan - two points come to mind. One is that if you're able to suspend your logical mind in order to believe in a "good" god, its not much of a jump to believe in an evil god. And, a common thread in brainwashing is to name an enemy.

There are people who believe that the devil is present on earth, in the room with you, right beside you and that you must pray for protection.

I recently posted about another religious camp for kids who had some sort of misbehavior or who were gay. They were mistreated pretty badly and the camp was eventually closed only to reopen under a different name.

Pretty sad stuff and in some cases, I believe the parents could be charged with neglect or worse.

Are you talking about Escuela Caribe in the Dominican Republic? Parents should lose custody of their children and face criminal charges for that crap.

 

[Hossfly]

My video response is now posted on #28. Please view it in it's entirety and share your thoughts. Thank you again, Pennywise, for permitting the video response to be included on your thread. May the LORD bless you for it.

I'll add my two cents a little later but if you want some expert analysis, then [MENTION=36767]Bloodrock44[/MENTION] is the one to be discussing this subject.

 

[Noomi]

Those so called Jesus camps scare the life out of me. Brainwashing children like that.

 

[shart_attack]

Those so called Jesus camps scare the life out of me. Brainwashing children like that.

Unless the camps are being run by sex offenders or some such, I don't see how any adult has anything whatsoever to fear from letting his/ her child go to a camp that will give the child understanding of Judeo-Christian scriptures and through them, latent moral vicissitudes.

I have no doubt that had poor Charlie Manson had some sort of upbringing as a child, he may well have never turned out to be the monster he became.

Don't project your fears onto the children.

 

[AtheistBuddah]

Those so called Jesus camps scare the life out of me. Brainwashing children like that.

Unless the camps are being run by sex offenders or some such, I don't see how any adult has anything whatsoever to fear from letting his/ her child go to a camp that will give the child understanding of Judeo-Christian scriptures and through them, latent moral vicissitudes.

I have no doubt that had poor Charlie Manson had some sort of upbringing as a child, he may well have never turned out to be the monster he became.

Don't project your fears onto the children.

I seriously doubt any upbringing, no matter how wholesome, would have made much difference in Manson's case. Have you seen interviews of him? He is clearly not of sound mind. Nature won out over nurture in his case and probably would no matter what his upbringing.

 

[Pennywise]

Those so called Jesus camps scare the life out of me. Brainwashing children like that.

Unless the camps are being run by sex offenders or some such, I don't see how any adult has anything whatsoever to fear from letting his/ her child go to a camp that will give the child understanding of Judeo-Christian scriptures and through them, latent moral vicissitudes.

I have no doubt that had poor Charlie Manson had some sort of upbringing as a child, he may well have never turned out to be the monster he became.

Don't project your fears onto the children.

I seriously doubt any upbringing, no matter how wholesome, would have made much difference in Manson's case. Have you seen interviews of him? He is clearly not of sound mind. Nature won out over nurture in his case and probably would no matter what his upbringing.

In Charlie's case though his upbringing was so demented that it had to have played a huge role in what he became.

 

[JFK_USA]

The belief in a common enemy, delusional or not, unifies humans and makes them easier to manipulate.​

Very true. And it helps keep the power with the church. If you challenge what they do, they will say you are possessed by the devil. We're (hopefully) smarter than that nowadays but like in Jesus Camp, those people still exist.

 

[Flopper]

Hi Flopper. Then there is this:

Mark 10:14-16 Suffer the little children to come unto me and forbid them not, for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.

Mt 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

He was referring to children in both passages, and them believing in Him at a young age. And suggested we all look upon the kingdom of God like they do.

The earlier you teach your children about Christ the sooner they can benefit from knowing Him in their daily lives. Wait to long and Satan may get to them before you do.

There is nothing wrong with teaching young children about Christ but not to the exclusion of all other beliefs. Dedicating one's life to Christ is a personal decision and should be an informed decision.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Those so called Jesus camps scare the life out of me. Brainwashing children like that.

Why? Are you afraid they'll grow up and pray on your behalf?
Jesus teaches us to love one another and be kind. I would rather my child learned that than have him wrapped in an ammo belt, and told to kill everyone that disagrees with his religion when he grows up.

 

[JFK_USA]

Those so called Jesus camps scare the life out of me. Brainwashing children like that.

Why? Are you afraid they'll grow up and pray on your behalf?
Jesus teaches us to love one another and be kind. I would rather my child learned that than have him wrapped in an ammo belt, and told to kill everyone that disagrees with his religion when he grows up.

Jesus's teachings were great, his followers? Not so much.

Read ghandi's quote on that.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Really? Have you been accosted my them? Did one pull a gun on you, or beat you up? Were you robbed by a band of roving Christians? Did one un-friend you on face book? Tell me about your horrendous experiences with Christ's followers, and have you had any bad experiences with non Christians as well?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

[MENTION=40845]Jeremiah[/MENTION]: Thank you for 'inviting' me to this thread. It will be a refreshing alternative to the Israel/Palestine section where there is nothing but name calling; my brief perusal of this thread shows some actual discourse. I only wish you 'invited' me before you posted your 'review' as I have yet to watch the full video (thank you to ?? for posting the link) but I will just as soon as I am done with this post.

However my first take from just 'Goggling' it and watching the trailer and some other comments are this:

I am not so sure that such intense indoctrination of young children into an intense Christian belief is as productive as we believe it should or could be. Maybe productive is the wrong word. But young children's minds can be molded so easily it is . . . . or could be pathetic and wrong. Look to the teachings in 'Palestine' schools. I believe that young children should be informed, but also allowed to grow up on their own without too much influence one way or another. After all, they have a fresh slate, an open mind, and are innocents.

Of course who am I to say when or where Jesus should call his chosen. For me, I did have quite a bit of exposure to Jesus and Christianity while in those years, but it wasn't until I had grown up and made plenty of mistakes and sinned a-plenty that I could actually understand exactly what sin was and how to accept Jesus Christ as my personal saviour. So that's just me.

I'll go and watch the movie now. I am subscribed. See you folks tomorrow or so . . .

Thank you for responding Teddyearp! I have to tell you I thought the thread on the Questionaire went very well and as I read through it I didn't see any fighting or name calling - it was very respectful throughout and it was on the Palestine & Israel thread so that tells me it can be done. As to this thread I watched the video and other than the music selections and the dance choreography, skits/ cardboard cut of George Bush Jr - ( Not Necessary At All! ) the ministry to the children was bar none excellent! The prayer ministry, teaching them how to be led by the Holy Spirit and sharing Christ with others was great - the children are well balanced, joyful, confident, respectful to authority, all the fruit looks good and is abounding with this particular ministry. It is what I would call a "Fruitful bough hanging over the wall"! To God be the Glory! If you watch my video on post #28 of this thread you'll see reason for concern with some children that look terrified - are being dragged along in a gay parade that is completely inappropriate for them to be exposed it - they look very frightened and troubled - it was a huge difference in atmosphere and I would consider that something that the Americans should be seriously concerned with. There are numerous interviews with mental health professionals throughout the video interjected throughout the sermon of Lester Sumrall as he explains what will brings judgment on a nation. It is a Romans 1 atmosphere that is taking place in America today and with it we are seeing a society that is bearing the fruits of Romans 1 which describes it. Romans 1: 28 - 32 As they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are inconvenient, being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignancy, whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful, who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same but take pleasure in them that do them.
-Romans 1: 28 - 32 - now I will bump up the Lester Sumrall comparison so you can see for yourself the difference between the praying children and what does offend God. Thank you again for reading and I hope that it is an enlightenment for some who perhaps do not clearly see "both sides" of this matter. I do agree with Irish Ram that we should teach our children at a young age to know the Lord Jesus Christ. Absolutely! It certainly beats the alterative! Be blessed! - Jere

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

The video response I was granted by the OP to respond with according to the first video and what constitutes a threat vs. what does not constitute a threat to America.

Thank you for permitting me to respond to the radio hosts video response with my own video, Pennywise. It is a lengthy presentation just as the video you gave me to watch was. I do hope the listeners will hear it to the conclusion as I believe the evidence it presents puts into proper perspective the radio broadcasters fear of praying children ( who believe in being born again according to Romans 10:9, 10 and John 3:16 ) being the most threatening political agenda of our time. This minister Lester Sumrall has a different opinion. So let us hear both sides of the matter now.



Lester Sumrall - The Homosexual Abomination - YouTube


Thank you for watching the video. This is what brings judgment on a nation. Not praying Christian children. May the truth expose the darkness of the hour we are living in. That is my prayer, In Jesus Name. Amen.

- Jeremiah

Teddyearp,

As you said you were watching the video - documentary that Pennywise put up, please be sure to click the Lester Sumrall - Homosexual abomination - youtube link - here in this post as it is also a documentary - video - sermon - which I did counter with to put the matter in proper perspective.

After you view this video which has eye witness testimony, interviews with leaders, Authors, Medical Doctor, mental health professionals, sermons, video footage of violence, Parades that are in my opinion exhibiting bizarre and inappropriate behavior which is happening in front of very young children, you may see the difference between what the radio broadcaster considers one of the greatest threats to the future of America and what one of the greatest evangelists of our time - Lester Sumrall considers the one of the greatest threats to America. I am in agreement with Sumrall for the record.

Best regards,

Jeremiah

 

[sealybobo]

I know this film is eight years old, but I saw it for the first time recently. Lots of thoughts occurred to me. On the surface it can seen as disturbing, but I also noted quite a bit of wisdom in a couple of the young kids who were featured. I can't relate at all to the evangelical movement, but maybe that's my problem, not theirs.

I have one question to anyone here who aligns themselves with this sect of Christianity, or just any other religious person who can shed some light-

What is the obsession with Satan? I know religious people. I have been to many services throughout my life, and I have never seen this kind of almost obsessive focus on The Devil. Any time I have ever been to church, I recall the focus being on how to be a better person through our thoughts and deeds, so this Satan stuff was a surprise.

Any thoughts?

Sounds like you go to a church I would approve of, if I were a theist. I have been to both types of churches. Ones that preached a good message and ones who preached about sin. Seems the ones that preach about sin are trying to scare/attract new members, usually when they are at their lowest and most vulnerable.

My church doesn't preach too much on hell but I do recall during the baptism they ask 3 times "do you renounce Satin?" Oh and also funny that born agains say Christians like the ones at my church are not going to heaven because they/we were baptized at birth and not as adults. You HAVE TO be baptized when you are an adult. Says it right in the bible. Of course then you'd have to take the bible literally and take that to mean you have to be dunked by a preacher when you are older. I think you just have to accept Jesus in your heart as an adult to be "saved", but the born agains, that's just their twist to try and steal members from the Catholics and other denominations.

Me I'm an atheist but this is my take on why they talk about the Devil and Hell so much. Scaring you is part of the brainwashing process.

 

[sealybobo]

The video response I was granted by the OP to respond with according to the first video and what constitutes a threat vs. what does not constitute a threat to America.

Thank you for permitting me to respond to the radio hosts video response with my own video, Pennywise. It is a lengthy presentation just as the video you gave me to watch was. I do hope the listeners will hear it to the conclusion as I believe the evidence it presents puts into proper perspective the radio broadcasters fear of praying children ( who believe in being born again according to Romans 10:9, 10 and John 3:16 ) being the most threatening political agenda of our time. This minister Lester Sumrall has a different opinion. So let us hear both sides of the matter now.

Lester Sumrall - The Homosexual Abomination - YouTube


Thank you for watching the video. This is what brings judgment on a nation. Not praying Christian children. May the truth expose the darkness of the hour we are living in. That is my prayer, In Jesus Name. Amen.

- Jeremiah

Teddyearp,

as you said you were watching the video - documentary that Pennywise put up, please be sure to click the Lester Sumrall - Homosexual abomination - youtube link - here in this post as it is also a documentary - video - sermon - which I did counter with to put the matter in proper perspective.

After you view this video which has eye witness testimony, mental health professionals, sermons, video footage of violence, Parades that are in my opinion exhibiting bizarre and inappropriate behavior which is happening in front of very young children, you may see the difference between what the radio broadcaster considers one of the greatest threats to the future of America and what one of the greatest evangelists of our time - Lester Sumrall considers the one of the greatest threats to America. I am in agreement with Sumrall for the record.

Best regards,

Jeremiah

Homosexuality isn't what is wrong with America. HETEROS are what's wrong with America. 3 words will prove my point. GIRLS GONE WILD. Hetero men and women are the ones having babies they don't want and not raising them in 2 parent households. Orphanages are full of babies that hetero people had and gave up.

The streets of Detroit are full of violent murderers and rapists that straight men and women had but didn't raise properly.

Straight breeders are the problem not gays you faggot.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

The video response I was granted by the OP to respond with according to the first video and what constitutes a threat vs. what does not constitute a threat to America.

Thank you for permitting me to respond to the radio hosts video response with my own video, Pennywise. It is a lengthy presentation just as the video you gave me to watch was. I do hope the listeners will hear it to the conclusion as I believe the evidence it presents puts into proper perspective the radio broadcasters fear of praying children ( who believe in being born again according to Romans 10:9, 10 and John 3:16 ) being the most threatening political agenda of our time. This minister Lester Sumrall has a different opinion. So let us hear both sides of the matter now.

Lester Sumrall - The Homosexual Abomination - YouTube


Thank you for watching the video. This is what brings judgment on a nation. Not praying Christian children. May the truth expose the darkness of the hour we are living in. That is my prayer, In Jesus Name. Amen.

- Jeremiah

Teddyearp,

as you said you were watching the video - documentary that Pennywise put up, please be sure to click the Lester Sumrall - Homosexual abomination - youtube link - here in this post as it is also a documentary - video - sermon - which I did counter with to put the matter in proper perspective.

After you view this video which has eye witness testimony, mental health professionals, sermons, video footage of violence, Parades that are in my opinion exhibiting bizarre and inappropriate behavior which is happening in front of very young children, you may see the difference between what the radio broadcaster considers one of the greatest threats to the future of America and what one of the greatest evangelists of our time - Lester Sumrall considers the one of the greatest threats to America. I am in agreement with Sumrall for the record.

Best regards,

Jeremiah

Homosexuality isn't what is wrong with America. HETEROS are what's wrong with America. 3 words will prove my point. GIRLS GONE WILD. Hetero men and women are the ones having babies they don't want and not raising them in 2 parent households. Orphanages are full of babies that hetero people had and gave up.

The streets of Detroit are full of violent murderers and rapists that straight men and women had but didn't raise properly.

Straight breeders are the problem not gays you faggot.

With all due respect, Sealybobo, have you viewed the video? If you have not viewed the video then how do you know the facts as presented from an outside source and not your own circle of friends, etc.? The video contains excellent documentation and is based on facts. You can see for yourself. The video has been done very respectfully and there is no reason to go on the personal attack over it.

None of the Christians here went on a rant against Pennywise for providing the documentary - radio host who was quite rude in his projection of the Jesus Camp video - which was done by an independent source - mind you.. So please show the same respect the Christians have shown to the Jesus Camp documentary by allowing others here to view the video and determine for themsleves what constitutes a threat to the future of the America family, society, and what does not. There are two sides to this matter. Let us hear both sides and not condemn something without first examining it. I watched the Jesus Camp video and you can watch the Lester Sumrall video I have presented to counter it with. Thank you.

 

[Flopper]

I know this film is eight years old, but I saw it for the first time recently. Lots of thoughts occurred to me. On the surface it can seen as disturbing, but I also noted quite a bit of wisdom in a couple of the young kids who were featured. I can't relate at all to the evangelical movement, but maybe that's my problem, not theirs.

I have one question to anyone here who aligns themselves with this sect of Christianity, or just any other religious person who can shed some light-

What is the obsession with Satan? I know religious people. I have been to many services throughout my life, and I have never seen this kind of almost obsessive focus on The Devil. Any time I have ever been to church, I recall the focus being on how to be a better person through our thoughts and deeds, so this Satan stuff was a surprise.

Any thoughts?

Sounds like you go to a church I would approve of, if I were a theist. I have been to both types of churches. Ones that preached a good message and ones who preached about sin. Seems the ones that preach about sin are trying to scare/attract new members, usually when they are at their lowest and most vulnerable.

My church doesn't preach too much on hell but I do recall during the baptism they ask 3 times "do you renounce Satin?" Oh and also funny that born agains say Christians like the ones at my church are not going to heaven because they/we were baptized at birth and not as adults. You HAVE TO be baptized when you are an adult. Says it right in the bible. Of course then you'd have to take the bible literally and take that to mean you have to be dunked by a preacher when you are older. I think you just have to accept Jesus in your heart as an adult to be "saved", but the born agains, that's just their twist to try and steal members from the Catholics and other denominations.

Me I'm an atheist but this is my take on why they talk about the Devil and Hell so much. Scaring you is part of the brainwashing process.

My major problem with an aggressive pursuit of the conversion of youngsters to Christ is that it often centers around convincing the child that they are sinful, evil, and hell bound. As parents we should be building a child's self-esteem, not convincing them that they're bad. A person should come to Christ out of love and desire to live a better and happier life, not out of guilt and fear.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Excuse me, Flopper, but the children in the video were already born again believers. They were crying out in prayer for the unborn who are being murdered in this country through abortion. Their prayers were for the lost, not themselves. There was only one short clip of their repenting before the LORD for having gotten into some sinful activities at a public school they attended. They repented and were joyful after they repented. Just as you and I are joyful after we repent before the LORD for our own sins. We are born into this world with the sin of Adam. All of us. The bible declared Ye must be born again. I did not the radio broadcaster didn't believe that either. Even though Jesus said, Ye must be born again. The Gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing but to those who believe it is the very power of God. Which one are you?

http://biblehub.com/john/3-7.htm

Context

Jesus and Nicodemus
…6"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7"Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' 8"The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."…