Jesus vs Muhammad: Who’s the moral exemplar?

[JoelT1]

A key characteristic of a prophet is that of moral exemplar for mankind to emulate. Based on this criterion, who was the true moral exemplar and prophet, Jesus or Muhammad?

Let’s compare and contrast: Jesus exhorted to love your enemies and pray for your persecutors, OTOH, Muhammad had his adversaries assassinated and even genocided in the case of the Jews. He had a female poet Asma bint Marwan stabbed to death, nursing her child, merely for criticizing him in poetry. He’s quoted as boasting that the way to paradise is by the sword. OTOH, Jesus warned that he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

Jesus preached to love your neighbor as yourself. Muhammad preached that only Muslims are liked by Allah. He killed his neighbors who disagreed

On a personal level, Jesus did not marry while Muhammad had a veritable harem with 10+ wives at the same time, during a long stage of his life. Perhaps most notorious among his wives were a 6-yr-old child Aisha (Muhammad was in his 50s) and a former daughter-in-law Zaynab, a scandal that shocked the public as it constituted incest in Arab culture

In terms of conduct, Muhammad and his followers robbed caravans in order to support themselves Indeed, the Koran entices Muslims with promises of “booty” and large-breasted maidens in paradise, sanctioned by “Allah” In fact, an entire book was needed to record Muhammad’s many raids, battles and wars, aptly called Book of Raids

Jesus and his followers supported themselves by doing honest, modest work.

Muhammad is quoted as sanctioning the rape of female slaves captured on such caravan raids and conflicts, and encouraged rape without birth control. Jesus did no such horrible thing

Muhammad was a warmonger who incited numerous battles including the first civil war, Medina and Mecca. Jesus was a man of peace who died for his beliefs while Muhammad murdered others for his beliefs

These are just a few contrasts between Jesus and Muhammad...Jesus was clearly the moral exemplar for humanity.

 

[irosie91]

A key characteristic of a prophet is that of moral exemplar for mankind to emulate. Based on this criterion, who was the true moral exemplar and prophet, Jesus or Muhammad?

Let’s compare and contrast: Jesus exhorted to love your enemies and pray for your persecutors, OTOH, Muhammad had his adversaries assassinated and even genocided in the case of the Jews. He had a female poet Asma bint Marwan stabbed to death, nursing her child, merely for criticizing him in poetry. He’s quoted as boasting that the way to paradise is by the sword. OTOH, Jesus warned that he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

Jesus preached to love your neighbor as yourself. Muhammad preached that only Muslims are liked by Allah. He killed his neighbors who disagreed

On a personal level, Jesus did not marry while Muhammad had a veritable harem with 10+ wives at the same time, during a long stage of his life. Perhaps most notorious among his wives were a 6-yr-old child Aisha (Muhammad was in his 50s) and a former daughter-in-law Zaynab, a scandal that shocked the public as it constituted incest in Arab culture

In terms of conduct, Muhammad and his followers robbed caravans in order to support themselves Indeed, the Koran entices Muslims with promises of “booty” and large-breasted maidens in paradise, sanctioned by “Allah” In fact, an entire book was needed to record Muhammad’s many raids, battles and wars, aptly called Book of Raids

Jesus and his followers supported themselves by doing honest, modest work.

Muhammad is quoted as sanctioning the rape of female slaves captured on such caravan raids and conflicts, and encouraged rape without birth control. Jesus did no such horrible thing

Muhammad was a warmonger who incited numerous battles including the first civil war, Medina and Mecca. Jesus was a man of peace who died for his beliefs while Muhammad murdered others for his beliefs

These are just a few contrasts between Jesus and Muhammad...Jesus was clearly the moral exemplar for humanity.

Joel----be reasonable-----Jesus was a jew----a Pharisee jew, no less-------muhummad was an ISHMAELITE -----I am not
a Talmud, gemara person -----but hubby is a little-----he told me that the term ISHMAELITE refers to nomadic illiterate
desert marauders who are considered dangerous criminals in
the "midbar"-----ie ---that is how it is used in the Talmud----before the rapist of mecca was born. Is that factoid not interesting?--------you probably already knew

 

[JoelT1]

A key characteristic of a prophet is that of moral exemplar for mankind to emulate. Based on this criterion, who was the true moral exemplar and prophet, Jesus or Muhammad?

Let’s compare and contrast: Jesus exhorted to love your enemies and pray for your persecutors, OTOH, Muhammad had his adversaries assassinated and even genocided in the case of the Jews. He had a female poet Asma bint Marwan stabbed to death, nursing her child, merely for criticizing him in poetry. He’s quoted as boasting that the way to paradise is by the sword. OTOH, Jesus warned that he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

Jesus preached to love your neighbor as yourself. Muhammad preached that only Muslims are liked by Allah. He killed his neighbors who disagreed

On a personal level, Jesus did not marry while Muhammad had a veritable harem with 10+ wives at the same time, during a long stage of his life. Perhaps most notorious among his wives were a 6-yr-old child Aisha (Muhammad was in his 50s) and a former daughter-in-law Zaynab, a scandal that shocked the public as it constituted incest in Arab culture

In terms of conduct, Muhammad and his followers robbed caravans in order to support themselves Indeed, the Koran entices Muslims with promises of “booty” and large-breasted maidens in paradise, sanctioned by “Allah” In fact, an entire book was needed to record Muhammad’s many raids, battles and wars, aptly called Book of Raids

Jesus and his followers supported themselves by doing honest, modest work.

Muhammad is quoted as sanctioning the rape of female slaves captured on such caravan raids and conflicts, and encouraged rape without birth control. Jesus did no such horrible thing

Muhammad was a warmonger who incited numerous battles including the first civil war, Medina and Mecca. Jesus was a man of peace who died for his beliefs while Muhammad murdered others for his beliefs

These are just a few contrasts between Jesus and Muhammad...Jesus was clearly the moral exemplar for humanity.

Joel----be reasonable-----Jesus was a jew----a Pharisee jew, no less-------muhummad was an ISHMAELITE -----I am not
a Talmud, gemara person -----but hubby is a little-----he told me that the term ISHMAELITE refers to nomadic illiterate
desert marauders who are considered dangerous criminals in
the "midbar"-----ie ---that is how it is used in the Talmud----before the rapist of mecca was born. Is that factoid not interesting?--------you probably already knew

Points taken. Interestingly, nowhere does the Koran say anything about Arabs or Muhammad descending from Ishmael. So, while Ishmael might have been a little rowdy, he was no child version of Muhammad

 

[alang1216]

A key characteristic of a prophet is that of moral exemplar for mankind to emulate. Based on this criterion, who was the true moral exemplar and prophet, Jesus or Muhammad?

Let’s compare and contrast: Jesus exhorted to love your enemies and pray for your persecutors, OTOH, Muhammad had his adversaries assassinated and even genocided in the case of the Jews. He had a female poet Asma bint Marwan stabbed to death, nursing her child, merely for criticizing him in poetry. He’s quoted as boasting that the way to paradise is by the sword. OTOH, Jesus warned that he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

Jesus preached to love your neighbor as yourself. Muhammad preached that only Muslims are liked by Allah. He killed his neighbors who disagreed

On a personal level, Jesus did not marry while Muhammad had a veritable harem with 10+ wives at the same time, during a long stage of his life. Perhaps most notorious among his wives were a 6-yr-old child Aisha (Muhammad was in his 50s) and a former daughter-in-law Zaynab, a scandal that shocked the public as it constituted incest in Arab culture

In terms of conduct, Muhammad and his followers robbed caravans in order to support themselves Indeed, the Koran entices Muslims with promises of “booty” and large-breasted maidens in paradise, sanctioned by “Allah” In fact, an entire book was needed to record Muhammad’s many raids, battles and wars, aptly called Book of Raids

Jesus and his followers supported themselves by doing honest, modest work.

Muhammad is quoted as sanctioning the rape of female slaves captured on such caravan raids and conflicts, and encouraged rape without birth control. Jesus did no such horrible thing

Muhammad was a warmonger who incited numerous battles including the first civil war, Medina and Mecca. Jesus was a man of peace who died for his beliefs while Muhammad murdered others for his beliefs

These are just a few contrasts between Jesus and Muhammad...Jesus was clearly the moral exemplar for humanity.

I think the best of Jesus is being compared to the worst of Muhammad. "I came not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" is one of statements attributed to Jesus according to Gospel of Matthew. Jesus was a Jewish zealot who wanted free Israel from Roman rule via the sword. If he was more successful in his mission we might have stories similar to those of Muhammad.

That being said, I think the take away should be that theology and politics is a very dangerous combination. I think you can look at any theocracy and find stories that would appall us today.

 

[JoelT1]

A key characteristic of a prophet is that of moral exemplar for mankind to emulate. Based on this criterion, who was the true moral exemplar and prophet, Jesus or Muhammad?

Let’s compare and contrast: Jesus exhorted to love your enemies and pray for your persecutors, OTOH, Muhammad had his adversaries assassinated and even genocided in the case of the Jews. He had a female poet Asma bint Marwan stabbed to death, nursing her child, merely for criticizing him in poetry. He’s quoted as boasting that the way to paradise is by the sword. OTOH, Jesus warned that he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

Jesus preached to love your neighbor as yourself. Muhammad preached that only Muslims are liked by Allah. He killed his neighbors who disagreed

On a personal level, Jesus did not marry while Muhammad had a veritable harem with 10+ wives at the same time, during a long stage of his life. Perhaps most notorious among his wives were a 6-yr-old child Aisha (Muhammad was in his 50s) and a former daughter-in-law Zaynab, a scandal that shocked the public as it constituted incest in Arab culture

In terms of conduct, Muhammad and his followers robbed caravans in order to support themselves Indeed, the Koran entices Muslims with promises of “booty” and large-breasted maidens in paradise, sanctioned by “Allah” In fact, an entire book was needed to record Muhammad’s many raids, battles and wars, aptly called Book of Raids

Jesus and his followers supported themselves by doing honest, modest work.

Muhammad is quoted as sanctioning the rape of female slaves captured on such caravan raids and conflicts, and encouraged rape without birth control. Jesus did no such horrible thing

Muhammad was a warmonger who incited numerous battles including the first civil war, Medina and Mecca. Jesus was a man of peace who died for his beliefs while Muhammad murdered others for his beliefs

These are just a few contrasts between Jesus and Muhammad...Jesus was clearly the moral exemplar for humanity.

I think the best of Jesus is being compared to the worst of Muhammad. "I came not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" is one of statements attributed to Jesus according to Gospel of Matthew. Jesus was a Jewish zealot who wanted free Israel from Roman rule via the sword. If he was more successful in his mission we might have stories similar to those of Muhammad.

That being said, I think the take away should be that theology and politics is a very dangerous combination. I think you can look at any theocracy and find stories that would appall us today.

Jesus explicitly opposed the use of swords. His verbal reference to a sword was merely a metaphor

Flag of Saudi Arabia, birthplace of Islam, features a sword and a reference to Muhammad in Arabic

 

[alang1216]

Jesus explicitly opposed the use of swords. His verbal reference to a sword was merely a metaphor

Flag of Saudi Arabia, birthplace of Islam, features a sword and a reference to Muhammad in Arabic

That is certainly one interpretation. Here is another, more literal one...

Consider this: Crucifixion was a punishment that Rome reserved almost exclusively for the crime of sedition. The plaque the Romans placed above Jesus' head as he writhed in pain - "King of the Jews" - was called a titulus and, despite common perception, was not meant to be sarcastic. Every criminal who hung on a cross received a plaque declaring the specific crime for which he was being executed. Jesus' crime, in the eyes of Rome, was striving for kingly rule (i.e. treason), the same crime for which nearly every other messianic aspirant of the time was killed. Nor did Jesus die alone. The gospels claim that on either side of Jesus hung men who in Greek are called lestai, a word often rendered into English as "thieves" but that actually means "bandits" and was the most common Roman designation for an insurrectionist or rebel.

Is the sword on the flag also metaphorical?

 

[JoelT1]

Jesus explicitly opposed the use of swords. His verbal reference to a sword was merely a metaphor

Flag of Saudi Arabia, birthplace of Islam, features a sword and a reference to Muhammad in Arabic

That is certainly one interpretation. Here is another, more literal one...

Consider this: Crucifixion was a punishment that Rome reserved almost exclusively for the crime of sedition. The plaque the Romans placed above Jesus' head as he writhed in pain - "King of the Jews" - was called a titulus and, despite common perception, was not meant to be sarcastic. Every criminal who hung on a cross received a plaque declaring the specific crime for which he was being executed. Jesus' crime, in the eyes of Rome, was striving for kingly rule (i.e. treason), the same crime for which nearly every other messianic aspirant of the time was killed. Nor did Jesus die alone. The gospels claim that on either side of Jesus hung men who in Greek are called lestai, a word often rendered into English as "thieves" but that actually means "bandits" and was the most common Roman designation for an insurrectionist or rebel.

Is the sword on the flag also metaphorical?

Muhammad’s violent life and use of the sword is well-documented

 

[Likkmee]

Yeshua is a socialist. Momo was a Nazi.pedo

 

[alang1216]

Muhammad’s violent life and use of the sword is well-documented

True enough but Jesus said almost the same thing in Matthew 10:

• 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
  
• 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

 

[JoelT1]

Muhammad’s violent life and use of the sword is well-documented

True enough but Jesus said almost the same thing in Matthew 10:

• 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
  
• 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

Taking up the cross is equivalent to killing non-Muslims with a sword?

Forfeiting one’s life as a martyr is equivalent to killing non-Muslims and going to paradise?

 

[irosie91]

A key characteristic of a prophet is that of moral exemplar for mankind to emulate. Based on this criterion, who was the true moral exemplar and prophet, Jesus or Muhammad?

Let’s compare and contrast: Jesus exhorted to love your enemies and pray for your persecutors, OTOH, Muhammad had his adversaries assassinated and even genocided in the case of the Jews. He had a female poet Asma bint Marwan stabbed to death, nursing her child, merely for criticizing him in poetry. He’s quoted as boasting that the way to paradise is by the sword. OTOH, Jesus warned that he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

Jesus preached to love your neighbor as yourself. Muhammad preached that only Muslims are liked by Allah. He killed his neighbors who disagreed

On a personal level, Jesus did not marry while Muhammad had a veritable harem with 10+ wives at the same time, during a long stage of his life. Perhaps most notorious among his wives were a 6-yr-old child Aisha (Muhammad was in his 50s) and a former daughter-in-law Zaynab, a scandal that shocked the public as it constituted incest in Arab culture

In terms of conduct, Muhammad and his followers robbed caravans in order to support themselves Indeed, the Koran entices Muslims with promises of “booty” and large-breasted maidens in paradise, sanctioned by “Allah” In fact, an entire book was needed to record Muhammad’s many raids, battles and wars, aptly called Book of Raids

Jesus and his followers supported themselves by doing honest, modest work.

Muhammad is quoted as sanctioning the rape of female slaves captured on such caravan raids and conflicts, and encouraged rape without birth control. Jesus did no such horrible thing

Muhammad was a warmonger who incited numerous battles including the first civil war, Medina and Mecca. Jesus was a man of peace who died for his beliefs while Muhammad murdered others for his beliefs

These are just a few contrasts between Jesus and Muhammad...Jesus was clearly the moral exemplar for humanity.

Joel----be reasonable-----Jesus was a jew----a Pharisee jew, no less-------muhummad was an ISHMAELITE -----I am not
a Talmud, gemara person -----but hubby is a little-----he told me that the term ISHMAELITE refers to nomadic illiterate
desert marauders who are considered dangerous criminals in
the "midbar"-----ie ---that is how it is used in the Talmud----before the rapist of mecca was born. Is that factoid not interesting?--------you probably already knew

Points taken. Interestingly, nowhere does the Koran say anything about Arabs or Muhammad descending from Ishmael. So, while Ishmael might have been a little rowdy, he was no child version of Muhammad

oh---its not in the Koran? I was under the impression that muhummad---went to great pains to ESTABLISH a "noble"
lineage-------which was a custom of ambitious arabs even back then. His claim to "ROYAL BLOOD"---must show up somewhere------hadith like??? Does any of this stuff
have an effect on the blood line claims of Saddam Hussein?

 

[JoelT1]

A key characteristic of a prophet is that of moral exemplar for mankind to emulate. Based on this criterion, who was the true moral exemplar and prophet, Jesus or Muhammad?

Let’s compare and contrast: Jesus exhorted to love your enemies and pray for your persecutors, OTOH, Muhammad had his adversaries assassinated and even genocided in the case of the Jews. He had a female poet Asma bint Marwan stabbed to death, nursing her child, merely for criticizing him in poetry. He’s quoted as boasting that the way to paradise is by the sword. OTOH, Jesus warned that he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

Jesus preached to love your neighbor as yourself. Muhammad preached that only Muslims are liked by Allah. He killed his neighbors who disagreed

On a personal level, Jesus did not marry while Muhammad had a veritable harem with 10+ wives at the same time, during a long stage of his life. Perhaps most notorious among his wives were a 6-yr-old child Aisha (Muhammad was in his 50s) and a former daughter-in-law Zaynab, a scandal that shocked the public as it constituted incest in Arab culture

In terms of conduct, Muhammad and his followers robbed caravans in order to support themselves Indeed, the Koran entices Muslims with promises of “booty” and large-breasted maidens in paradise, sanctioned by “Allah” In fact, an entire book was needed to record Muhammad’s many raids, battles and wars, aptly called Book of Raids

Jesus and his followers supported themselves by doing honest, modest work.

Muhammad is quoted as sanctioning the rape of female slaves captured on such caravan raids and conflicts, and encouraged rape without birth control. Jesus did no such horrible thing

Muhammad was a warmonger who incited numerous battles including the first civil war, Medina and Mecca. Jesus was a man of peace who died for his beliefs while Muhammad murdered others for his beliefs

These are just a few contrasts between Jesus and Muhammad...Jesus was clearly the moral exemplar for humanity.

Joel----be reasonable-----Jesus was a jew----a Pharisee jew, no less-------muhummad was an ISHMAELITE -----I am not
a Talmud, gemara person -----but hubby is a little-----he told me that the term ISHMAELITE refers to nomadic illiterate
desert marauders who are considered dangerous criminals in
the "midbar"-----ie ---that is how it is used in the Talmud----before the rapist of mecca was born. Is that factoid not interesting?--------you probably already knew

Points taken. Interestingly, nowhere does the Koran say anything about Arabs or Muhammad descending from Ishmael. So, while Ishmael might have been a little rowdy, he was no child version of Muhammad

oh---its not in the Koran? I was under the impression that muhummad---went to great pains to ESTABLISH a "noble"
lineage-------which was a custom of ambitious arabs even back then. His claim to "ROYAL BLOOD"---must show up somewhere------hadith like??? Does any of this stuff
have an effect on the blood line claims of Saddam Hussein?

Later Muslims falsely connected Muhammad and Ishmael. Most of Muhammad’s life was embellished or fabricated. However, nowhere in the Koran does it say Muhammad or even Arabs descended from Ishmael.

 

[irosie91]

A key characteristic of a prophet is that of moral exemplar for mankind to emulate. Based on this criterion, who was the true moral exemplar and prophet, Jesus or Muhammad?

Let’s compare and contrast: Jesus exhorted to love your enemies and pray for your persecutors, OTOH, Muhammad had his adversaries assassinated and even genocided in the case of the Jews. He had a female poet Asma bint Marwan stabbed to death, nursing her child, merely for criticizing him in poetry. He’s quoted as boasting that the way to paradise is by the sword. OTOH, Jesus warned that he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

Jesus preached to love your neighbor as yourself. Muhammad preached that only Muslims are liked by Allah. He killed his neighbors who disagreed

On a personal level, Jesus did not marry while Muhammad had a veritable harem with 10+ wives at the same time, during a long stage of his life. Perhaps most notorious among his wives were a 6-yr-old child Aisha (Muhammad was in his 50s) and a former daughter-in-law Zaynab, a scandal that shocked the public as it constituted incest in Arab culture

In terms of conduct, Muhammad and his followers robbed caravans in order to support themselves Indeed, the Koran entices Muslims with promises of “booty” and large-breasted maidens in paradise, sanctioned by “Allah” In fact, an entire book was needed to record Muhammad’s many raids, battles and wars, aptly called Book of Raids

Jesus and his followers supported themselves by doing honest, modest work.

Muhammad is quoted as sanctioning the rape of female slaves captured on such caravan raids and conflicts, and encouraged rape without birth control. Jesus did no such horrible thing

Muhammad was a warmonger who incited numerous battles including the first civil war, Medina and Mecca. Jesus was a man of peace who died for his beliefs while Muhammad murdered others for his beliefs

These are just a few contrasts between Jesus and Muhammad...Jesus was clearly the moral exemplar for humanity.

Joel----be reasonable-----Jesus was a jew----a Pharisee jew, no less-------muhummad was an ISHMAELITE -----I am not
a Talmud, gemara person -----but hubby is a little-----he told me that the term ISHMAELITE refers to nomadic illiterate
desert marauders who are considered dangerous criminals in
the "midbar"-----ie ---that is how it is used in the Talmud----before the rapist of mecca was born. Is that factoid not interesting?--------you probably already knew

Points taken. Interestingly, nowhere does the Koran say anything about Arabs or Muhammad descending from Ishmael. So, while Ishmael might have been a little rowdy, he was no child version of Muhammad

oh---its not in the Koran? I was under the impression that muhummad---went to great pains to ESTABLISH a "noble"
lineage-------which was a custom of ambitious arabs even back then. His claim to "ROYAL BLOOD"---must show up somewhere------hadith like??? Does any of this stuff
have an effect on the blood line claims of Saddam Hussein?

Later Muslims falsely connected Muhammad and Ishmael. Most of Muhammad’s life was embellished or fabricated. However, nowhere in the Koran does it say Muhammad or even Arabs descended from Ishmael.

oh. I wonder when muslims BEGAN to take that
idea as "gospel" Rambam called muslims
ISHMAELITES

 

[JoelT1]

A key characteristic of a prophet is that of moral exemplar for mankind to emulate. Based on this criterion, who was the true moral exemplar and prophet, Jesus or Muhammad?

Let’s compare and contrast: Jesus exhorted to love your enemies and pray for your persecutors, OTOH, Muhammad had his adversaries assassinated and even genocided in the case of the Jews. He had a female poet Asma bint Marwan stabbed to death, nursing her child, merely for criticizing him in poetry. He’s quoted as boasting that the way to paradise is by the sword. OTOH, Jesus warned that he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

Jesus preached to love your neighbor as yourself. Muhammad preached that only Muslims are liked by Allah. He killed his neighbors who disagreed

On a personal level, Jesus did not marry while Muhammad had a veritable harem with 10+ wives at the same time, during a long stage of his life. Perhaps most notorious among his wives were a 6-yr-old child Aisha (Muhammad was in his 50s) and a former daughter-in-law Zaynab, a scandal that shocked the public as it constituted incest in Arab culture

In terms of conduct, Muhammad and his followers robbed caravans in order to support themselves Indeed, the Koran entices Muslims with promises of “booty” and large-breasted maidens in paradise, sanctioned by “Allah” In fact, an entire book was needed to record Muhammad’s many raids, battles and wars, aptly called Book of Raids

Jesus and his followers supported themselves by doing honest, modest work.

Muhammad is quoted as sanctioning the rape of female slaves captured on such caravan raids and conflicts, and encouraged rape without birth control. Jesus did no such horrible thing

Muhammad was a warmonger who incited numerous battles including the first civil war, Medina and Mecca. Jesus was a man of peace who died for his beliefs while Muhammad murdered others for his beliefs

These are just a few contrasts between Jesus and Muhammad...Jesus was clearly the moral exemplar for humanity.

Joel----be reasonable-----Jesus was a jew----a Pharisee jew, no less-------muhummad was an ISHMAELITE -----I am not
a Talmud, gemara person -----but hubby is a little-----he told me that the term ISHMAELITE refers to nomadic illiterate
desert marauders who are considered dangerous criminals in
the "midbar"-----ie ---that is how it is used in the Talmud----before the rapist of mecca was born. Is that factoid not interesting?--------you probably already knew

Points taken. Interestingly, nowhere does the Koran say anything about Arabs or Muhammad descending from Ishmael. So, while Ishmael might have been a little rowdy, he was no child version of Muhammad

oh---its not in the Koran? I was under the impression that muhummad---went to great pains to ESTABLISH a "noble"
lineage-------which was a custom of ambitious arabs even back then. His claim to "ROYAL BLOOD"---must show up somewhere------hadith like??? Does any of this stuff
have an effect on the blood line claims of Saddam Hussein?

Incidentally, I

A key characteristic of a prophet is that of moral exemplar for mankind to emulate. Based on this criterion, who was the true moral exemplar and prophet, Jesus or Muhammad?

Let’s compare and contrast: Jesus exhorted to love your enemies and pray for your persecutors, OTOH, Muhammad had his adversaries assassinated and even genocided in the case of the Jews. He had a female poet Asma bint Marwan stabbed to death, nursing her child, merely for criticizing him in poetry. He’s quoted as boasting that the way to paradise is by the sword. OTOH, Jesus warned that he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

Jesus preached to love your neighbor as yourself. Muhammad preached that only Muslims are liked by Allah. He killed his neighbors who disagreed

On a personal level, Jesus did not marry while Muhammad had a veritable harem with 10+ wives at the same time, during a long stage of his life. Perhaps most notorious among his wives were a 6-yr-old child Aisha (Muhammad was in his 50s) and a former daughter-in-law Zaynab, a scandal that shocked the public as it constituted incest in Arab culture

In terms of conduct, Muhammad and his followers robbed caravans in order to support themselves Indeed, the Koran entices Muslims with promises of “booty” and large-breasted maidens in paradise, sanctioned by “Allah” In fact, an entire book was needed to record Muhammad’s many raids, battles and wars, aptly called Book of Raids

Jesus and his followers supported themselves by doing honest, modest work.

Muhammad is quoted as sanctioning the rape of female slaves captured on such caravan raids and conflicts, and encouraged rape without birth control. Jesus did no such horrible thing

Muhammad was a warmonger who incited numerous battles including the first civil war, Medina and Mecca. Jesus was a man of peace who died for his beliefs while Muhammad murdered others for his beliefs

These are just a few contrasts between Jesus and Muhammad...Jesus was clearly the moral exemplar for humanity.

Joel----be reasonable-----Jesus was a jew----a Pharisee jew, no less-------muhummad was an ISHMAELITE -----I am not
a Talmud, gemara person -----but hubby is a little-----he told me that the term ISHMAELITE refers to nomadic illiterate
desert marauders who are considered dangerous criminals in
the "midbar"-----ie ---that is how it is used in the Talmud----before the rapist of mecca was born. Is that factoid not interesting?--------you probably already knew

Points taken. Interestingly, nowhere does the Koran say anything about Arabs or Muhammad descending from Ishmael. So, while Ishmael might have been a little rowdy, he was no child version of Muhammad

oh---its not in the Koran? I was under the impression that muhummad---went to great pains to ESTABLISH a "noble"
lineage-------which was a custom of ambitious arabs even back then. His claim to "ROYAL BLOOD"---must show up somewhere------hadith like??? Does any of this stuff
have an effect on the blood line claims of Saddam Hussein?

Later Muslims falsely connected Muhammad and Ishmael. Most of Muhammad’s life was embellished or fabricated. However, nowhere in the Koran does it say Muhammad or even Arabs descended from Ishmael.

oh. I wonder when muslims BEGAN to take that
idea as "gospel" Rambam called muslims
ISHMAELITES

In Maimonides’ letter to the Yemenite Jews, he wrote poignantly about Arab/Muslim persecution of Jews

 

[JoelT1]

A key characteristic of a prophet is that of moral exemplar for mankind to emulate. Based on this criterion, who was the true moral exemplar and prophet, Jesus or Muhammad?

Let’s compare and contrast: Jesus exhorted to love your enemies and pray for your persecutors, OTOH, Muhammad had his adversaries assassinated and even genocided in the case of the Jews. He had a female poet Asma bint Marwan stabbed to death, nursing her child, merely for criticizing him in poetry. He’s quoted as boasting that the way to paradise is by the sword. OTOH, Jesus warned that he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

Jesus preached to love your neighbor as yourself. Muhammad preached that only Muslims are liked by Allah. He killed his neighbors who disagreed

On a personal level, Jesus did not marry while Muhammad had a veritable harem with 10+ wives at the same time, during a long stage of his life. Perhaps most notorious among his wives were a 6-yr-old child Aisha (Muhammad was in his 50s) and a former daughter-in-law Zaynab, a scandal that shocked the public as it constituted incest in Arab culture

In terms of conduct, Muhammad and his followers robbed caravans in order to support themselves Indeed, the Koran entices Muslims with promises of “booty” and large-breasted maidens in paradise, sanctioned by “Allah” In fact, an entire book was needed to record Muhammad’s many raids, battles and wars, aptly called Book of Raids

Jesus and his followers supported themselves by doing honest, modest work.

Muhammad is quoted as sanctioning the rape of female slaves captured on such caravan raids and conflicts, and encouraged rape without birth control. Jesus did no such horrible thing

Muhammad was a warmonger who incited numerous battles including the first civil war, Medina and Mecca. Jesus was a man of peace who died for his beliefs while Muhammad murdered others for his beliefs

These are just a few contrasts between Jesus and Muhammad...Jesus was clearly the moral exemplar for humanity.

Joel----be reasonable-----Jesus was a jew----a Pharisee jew, no less-------muhummad was an ISHMAELITE -----I am not
a Talmud, gemara person -----but hubby is a little-----he told me that the term ISHMAELITE refers to nomadic illiterate
desert marauders who are considered dangerous criminals in
the "midbar"-----ie ---that is how it is used in the Talmud----before the rapist of mecca was born. Is that factoid not interesting?--------you probably already knew

Points taken. Interestingly, nowhere does the Koran say anything about Arabs or Muhammad descending from Ishmael. So, while Ishmael might have been a little rowdy, he was no child version of Muhammad

oh---its not in the Koran? I was under the impression that muhummad---went to great pains to ESTABLISH a "noble"
lineage-------which was a custom of ambitious arabs even back then. His claim to "ROYAL BLOOD"---must show up somewhere------hadith like??? Does any of this stuff
have an effect on the blood line claims of Saddam Hussein?

Later Muslims falsely connected Muhammad and Ishmael. Most of Muhammad’s life was embellished or fabricated. However, nowhere in the Koran does it say Muhammad or even Arabs descended from Ishmael.

oh. I wonder when muslims BEGAN to take that
idea as "gospel" Rambam called muslims
ISHMAELITES

Arabs first learned about Ishmael from Jews and Christians. Ishmael does not appear in any Arab records before the Koran. In fact, Ishmael or Ismail became common Arab names only a few centuries ago.

 

[JoelT1]

A key characteristic of a prophet is that of moral exemplar for mankind to emulate. Based on this criterion, who was the true moral exemplar and prophet, Jesus or Muhammad?

Let’s compare and contrast: Jesus exhorted to love your enemies and pray for your persecutors, OTOH, Muhammad had his adversaries assassinated and even genocided in the case of the Jews. He had a female poet Asma bint Marwan stabbed to death, nursing her child, merely for criticizing him in poetry. He’s quoted as boasting that the way to paradise is by the sword. OTOH, Jesus warned that he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

Jesus preached to love your neighbor as yourself. Muhammad preached that only Muslims are liked by Allah. He killed his neighbors who disagreed

On a personal level, Jesus did not marry while Muhammad had a veritable harem with 10+ wives at the same time, during a long stage of his life. Perhaps most notorious among his wives were a 6-yr-old child Aisha (Muhammad was in his 50s) and a former daughter-in-law Zaynab, a scandal that shocked the public as it constituted incest in Arab culture

In terms of conduct, Muhammad and his followers robbed caravans in order to support themselves Indeed, the Koran entices Muslims with promises of “booty” and large-breasted maidens in paradise, sanctioned by “Allah” In fact, an entire book was needed to record Muhammad’s many raids, battles and wars, aptly called Book of Raids

Jesus and his followers supported themselves by doing honest, modest work.

Muhammad is quoted as sanctioning the rape of female slaves captured on such caravan raids and conflicts, and encouraged rape without birth control. Jesus did no such horrible thing

Muhammad was a warmonger who incited numerous battles including the first civil war, Medina and Mecca. Jesus was a man of peace who died for his beliefs while Muhammad murdered others for his beliefs

These are just a few contrasts between Jesus and Muhammad...Jesus was clearly the moral exemplar for humanity.

Joel----be reasonable-----Jesus was a jew----a Pharisee jew, no less-------muhummad was an ISHMAELITE -----I am not
a Talmud, gemara person -----but hubby is a little-----he told me that the term ISHMAELITE refers to nomadic illiterate
desert marauders who are considered dangerous criminals in
the "midbar"-----ie ---that is how it is used in the Talmud----before the rapist of mecca was born. Is that factoid not interesting?--------you probably already knew

Points taken. Interestingly, nowhere does the Koran say anything about Arabs or Muhammad descending from Ishmael. So, while Ishmael might have been a little rowdy, he was no child version of Muhammad

oh---its not in the Koran? I was under the impression that muhummad---went to great pains to ESTABLISH a "noble"
lineage-------which was a custom of ambitious arabs even back then. His claim to "ROYAL BLOOD"---must show up somewhere------hadith like??? Does any of this stuff
have an effect on the blood line claims of Saddam Hussein?

Later Muslims falsely connected Muhammad and Ishmael. Most of Muhammad’s life was embellished or fabricated. However, nowhere in the Koran does it say Muhammad or even Arabs descended from Ishmael.

oh. I wonder when muslims BEGAN to take that
idea as "gospel" Rambam called muslims
ISHMAELITES

Here in the Koran, Muhammad doesn’t yet know about Ishmael—And, he mistakenly makes Jacob the son of Abraham instead of the grandson, demonstrating the fraudulence of Muhammad, the Koran and Islam

 

[Lysistrata]

A key characteristic of a prophet is that of moral exemplar for mankind to emulate. Based on this criterion, who was the true moral exemplar and prophet, Jesus or Muhammad?

Let’s compare and contrast: Jesus exhorted to love your enemies and pray for your persecutors, OTOH, Muhammad had his adversaries assassinated and even genocided in the case of the Jews. He had a female poet Asma bint Marwan stabbed to death, nursing her child, merely for criticizing him in poetry. He’s quoted as boasting that the way to paradise is by the sword. OTOH, Jesus warned that he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

Jesus preached to love your neighbor as yourself. Muhammad preached that only Muslims are liked by Allah. He killed his neighbors who disagreed

On a personal level, Jesus did not marry while Muhammad had a veritable harem with 10+ wives at the same time, during a long stage of his life. Perhaps most notorious among his wives were a 6-yr-old child Aisha (Muhammad was in his 50s) and a former daughter-in-law Zaynab, a scandal that shocked the public as it constituted incest in Arab culture

In terms of conduct, Muhammad and his followers robbed caravans in order to support themselves Indeed, the Koran entices Muslims with promises of “booty” and large-breasted maidens in paradise, sanctioned by “Allah” In fact, an entire book was needed to record Muhammad’s many raids, battles and wars, aptly called Book of Raids

Jesus and his followers supported themselves by doing honest, modest work.

Muhammad is quoted as sanctioning the rape of female slaves captured on such caravan raids and conflicts, and encouraged rape without birth control. Jesus did no such horrible thing

Muhammad was a warmonger who incited numerous battles including the first civil war, Medina and Mecca. Jesus was a man of peace who died for his beliefs while Muhammad murdered others for his beliefs

These are just a few contrasts between Jesus and Muhammad...Jesus was clearly the moral exemplar for humanity.

I think the best of Jesus is being compared to the worst of Muhammad. "I came not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" is one of statements attributed to Jesus according to Gospel of Matthew. Jesus was a Jewish zealot who wanted free Israel from Roman rule via the sword. If he was more successful in his mission we might have stories similar to those of Muhammad.

That being said, I think the take away should be that theology and politics is a very dangerous combination. I think you can look at any theocracy and find stories that would appall us today.

Jesus explicitly opposed the use of swords. His verbal reference to a sword was merely a metaphor

Flag of Saudi Arabia, birthplace of Islam, features a sword and a reference to Muhammad in Arabic

 

[Lysistrata]

You have never answered my question as to why you are doing this. All religions have trash. The Christians in the U.S. have Frankie Graham, Tony Perkins, James dobson, pence, dolan, perry, devos,abbott, and the rest of the human garbage who try to destroy the religion supposedly founded upon the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. Nobody needs to go after Muslims when we have this filth here at home trying to destroy a great faith.

 

[JoelT1]

You have never answered my question as to why you are doing this. All religions have trash. The Christians in the U.S. have Frankie Graham, Tony Perkins, James dobson, pence, dolan, perry, devos,abbott, and the rest of the human garbage who try to destroy the religion supposedly founded upon the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. Nobody needs to go after Muslims when we have this filth here at home trying to destroy a great faith.

Muslims are compelled to emulate Muhammad as Islam’s Perfect Man. His serious moral failings discredit Islam’s integrity

 

[Lysistrata]

You have never answered my question as to why you are doing this. All religions have trash. The Christians in the U.S. have Frankie Graham, Tony Perkins, James dobson, pence, dolan, perry, devos,abbott, and the rest of the human garbage who try to destroy the religion supposedly founded upon the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. Nobody needs to go after Muslims when we have this filth here at home trying to destroy a great faith.

Muslims are compelled to emulate Muhammad as Islam’s Perfect Man. His serious moral failings discredit Islam’s integrity