JFK false flag victim

[Soupnazi630]

Once again, the simplest explanation is the most likely

Oswald read in the paper that the JFK motorcade would go by his workplace. So he brought his gun to work, fired three shots and blew JFKs brains out

A little more detail explains a lot.

The Dallas papers printed the motorcade route on Wed before the assassination but Oswald probably did not see it until Thursday. His coworkers stated it was his typical habit to pick up and read day old newspapers on the floor of the break room as he was too cheap to buy his own.

It was on thursday that his typical behavior changed dramatically and he decided to spend a weeknight with his wife at Ruth Payne's house which he had never done before, instead coming to visit only on weekends. Obvious this was to retrieve his rifle which was stored in a blanket in Ruth Payne's garage. HE also left his wedding ring ( which Marina said he had never removed ) in a teacup on his wife's dresser along with a little money.

Clearly he was planning his attempt on kennedy's life.

It was not quite spur of the moment but pretty close with only two days and a night to plan his attempt.

I mentioned before that he probably knew he had no hope of escaping or getting away with it but that does not preclude a desperate ATTEMPT to get away which he tried for, even if he knew the odds were overwhelming that he was going to get caught.

What makes all of this important is that conspiracy theorists insist that his behavior was erratic and not what one would expect but in fact it is EXACTLY what one would expect from someone who just pulled off the murder of the century and his brain is racing a thousand different ways wondering when he will be caught, while also wondering if there is even a snowball's chance that he can slip away and avoid capture.

 

[Soupnazi630]

The problem with all these JFK conspiracies is they fail at the level of conspiracy

A conspiracy implies careful planning. Would the Soviets, Cubans, Mafia or CIA select someone like Oswald to be the key to a political assasination that could start a war?
They would have selected a PROFESSIONAL assassin. Someone who would be in Dallas under a fake name. Someone who not only knew how to shoot, but had an escape plan that would either get him out of the country or kill him. Would a professional assassin use a $19.95 mail order bolt action rifle or a top line sniper rifle?
Instead we have Oswald. Undependable and mentally unstable. Oswald had no chance at escape. The police were going to check who worked at the Schoolbook Depository. Oswald would have been red flagged. Oswald wandered the city and shot a cop. He hid in a theater. Not what you would call a professional escape plan
If you were the Soviets, Cubans, Mafia or CIA.......would you trust Oswald with your conspiracy?

If Oswald were a “patsy” like he claimed, a conspirator like the USSR, Cuba, Mafia or CIA would have had him killed immediately after the shooting

Why allow your weakest link to go through two days of enhanced interrogation by the police?

One would also have to go a bt further.

The men who killed Oswald AND Kennedy would have to be removed from the country and killed or perhaps killed and disposed of so they would never be found. Otherwise they might talk. You might have to repeat the process a few times. There is no telling where it would end and sooner or later someone in the know would talk.

Obviously many have talked. Over 100 men have claimed to be the other assassin but not one of them has any credibility and most are proven to be attention seekers and liars.

Another inconvenient fact is that Ruby lived on for a couple of years after killing Oswald and had regular visitors who he talked to yet he maintained that he acted alone until he died.

 

[rightwinger]

Once again, the simplest explanation is the most likely

Oswald read in the paper that the JFK motorcade would go by his workplace. So he brought his gun to work, fired three shots and blew JFKs brains out

A little more detail explains a lot.

The Dallas papers printed the motorcade route on Wed before the assassination but Oswald probably did not see it until Thursday. His coworkers stated it was his typical habit to pick up and read day old newspapers on the floor of the break room as he was too cheap to buy his own.

It was on thursday that his typical behavior changed dramatically and he decided to spend a weeknight with his wife at Ruth Payne's house which he had never done before, instead coming to visit only on weekends. Obvious this was to retrieve his rifle which was stored in a blanket in Ruth Payne's garage. HE also left his wedding ring ( which Marina said he had never removed ) in a teacup on his wife's dresser along with a little money.

Clearly he was planning his attempt on kennedy's life.

It was not quite spur of the moment but pretty close with only two days and a night to plan his attempt.

I mentioned before that he probably knew he had no hope of escaping or getting away with it but that does not preclude a desperate ATTEMPT to get away which he tried for, even if he knew the odds were overwhelming that he was going to get caught.

What makes all of this important is that conspiracy theorists insist that his behavior was erratic and not what one would expect but in fact it is EXACTLY what one would expect from someone who just pulled off the murder of the century and his brain is racing a thousand different ways wondering when he will be caught, while also wondering if there is even a snowball's chance that he can slip away and avoid capture.

If he had been the chosen assassin of USSR, Cuba, Mafia or CIA he would have at least been provided with a better weapon than a $19.95 surplus mail order bolt action rifle

 

[Soupnazi630]

The problem with all these JFK conspiracies is they fail at the level of conspiracy

A conspiracy implies careful planning. Would the Soviets, Cubans, Mafia or CIA select someone like Oswald to be the key to a political assasination that could start a war?
They would have selected a PROFESSIONAL assassin. Someone who would be in Dallas under a fake name. Someone who not only knew how to shoot, but had an escape plan that would either get him out of the country or kill him. Would a professional assassin use a $19.95 mail order bolt action rifle or a top line sniper rifle?
Instead we have Oswald. Undependable and mentally unstable. Oswald had no chance at escape. The police were going to check who worked at the Schoolbook Depository. Oswald would have been red flagged. Oswald wandered the city and shot a cop. He hid in a theater. Not what you would call a professional escape plan
If you were the Soviets, Cubans, Mafia or CIA.......would you trust Oswald with your conspiracy?

If Oswald were a “patsy” like he claimed, a conspirator like the USSR, Cuba, Mafia or CIA would have had him killed immediately after the shooting

Why allow your weakest link to go through two days of enhanced interrogation by the police?

Incidentally there is a great old movie which shows how it would have been done.

It's called " The Package " with gene Hackman and Tommy Lee Jones.

In this film some military types are trying to assassinate the russian president. The set up their Patsy as a nazi and give him an office overlooking where the Russian president will be shot.

Right before the assassination he is given a rifle identical to the murder weapon as a gift. After he picks it up and handles it he is shot to death with the rifle in his hands overlooking the sight of the murder.

Just a fictional movie but obviously the writers were smarter than the clumsy and sloppy conspiracy masterminds who some think killed Kennedy. Clumsy and stupid enough to leave clues all over but smart enough to leave ZERO evidence.

 

[Soupnazi630]

mm

Once again, the simplest explanation is the most likely

Oswald read in the paper that the JFK motorcade would go by his workplace. So he brought his gun to work, fired three shots and blew JFKs brains out

A little more detail explains a lot.

The Dallas papers printed the motorcade route on Wed before the assassination but Oswald probably did not see it until Thursday. His coworkers stated it was his typical habit to pick up and read day old newspapers on the floor of the break room as he was too cheap to buy his own.

It was on thursday that his typical behavior changed dramatically and he decided to spend a weeknight with his wife at Ruth Payne's house which he had never done before, instead coming to visit only on weekends. Obvious this was to retrieve his rifle which was stored in a blanket in Ruth Payne's garage. HE also left his wedding ring ( which Marina said he had never removed ) in a teacup on his wife's dresser along with a little money.

Clearly he was planning his attempt on kennedy's life.

It was not quite spur of the moment but pretty close with only two days and a night to plan his attempt.

I mentioned before that he probably knew he had no hope of escaping or getting away with it but that does not preclude a desperate ATTEMPT to get away which he tried for, even if he knew the odds were overwhelming that he was going to get caught.

What makes all of this important is that conspiracy theorists insist that his behavior was erratic and not what one would expect but in fact it is EXACTLY what one would expect from someone who just pulled off the murder of the century and his brain is racing a thousand different ways wondering when he will be caught, while also wondering if there is even a snowball's chance that he can slip away and avoid capture.

If he had been the chosen assassin of USSR, Cuba, Mafia or CIA he would have at least been provided with a better weapon than a $19.95 surplus mail order rifle

True.

The weapon was good enough to do the job but still not a very good rifle.

A conspiracy would also have provided a more clear motive. We can only make educated guesses about his motive. Conspiracy theorists will claim that this indicates a conspiracy as he was killed before he ever confessed or admitted it. But in fact it argues against a conspiracy.

Conspiracy planners would have built some sort of background story with a clear reason for Oswald to Hate Kennedy and to provide motivation.

They would want this in order to avoid having people dig deep and asking question which they had to do after Oswald died.

 

[candycorn]

The problem with all these JFK conspiracies is they fail at the level of conspiracy

A conspiracy implies careful planning. Would the Soviets, Cubans, Mafia or CIA select someone like Oswald to be the key to a political assasination that could start a war?

Well, that is one way to look at it. Another way would be (if you’re a national superpower) is this: Americans have it very well in the world—which is the truth. At any one time 1/2 of the nation wishes the President were someone else.—which is true. A shocking amount of the time sees the VP who will, by law, become president if the President is killed….was a recent political rival of the President; which in the case of LBJ was the truth. I’m not sure that is enough to move the needle but if you take into account that

99% of the nation has it better than 100% of the rest of the world
50% the nation isn’t going to “miss” the President
and the VP is going to become the President who may or may not be part of the 50%

I would wonder if that wasn’t enough to sway some national actor.

They would have selected a PROFESSIONAL assassin. Someone who would be in Dallas under a fake name. Someone who not only knew how to shoot, but had an escape plan that would either get him out of the country or kill him. Would a professional assassin use a $19.95 mail order bolt action rifle or a top line sniper rifle?

All good points. We know Oswald said he was a patsy. Which would account for him not having an escape plan. Perhaps someone was supposed to meet him which would account for his going home and the erratic behavior after he shot the President.
As for the Professional Assassin, I think Rumsfeld put it best when he said (paraphrasing); you don’t go to war with the army you wish you had; you go with the one you got.

More about this later….

Instead we have Oswald. Undependable and mentally unstable. Oswald had no chance at escape. The police were going to check who worked at the Schoolbook Depository. Oswald would have been red flagged. Oswald wandered the city and shot a cop. He hid in a theater. Not what you would call a professional escape plan
If you were the Soviets, Cubans, Mafia or CIA.......would you trust Oswald with your conspiracy?

Would I trust Oswald with this job? Not sure. However, if you’re Cuba and you have limited resources…you bring up to Russia that you want blood for the Bay of Pigs but they turn you down…you look at your list of options. Oswald isn’t your mail-order assassin for darn sure….but if you’re Cuba, you don’t exactly have a bunch of options in the James Bond department do you?

I wouldn’t be surprised if he was a lone nut. I think that there are way too many coincidences for that to be the case and that any spy agency or surveillance service would have had him marked and accounted for if he was anywhere near Dallas when the President was visiting… I wouldn’t be surprised though if Cuba enlisted him and then left him to fend for himself.
Thanks to Jack Ruby; we never heard Oswald’s side of the story.

I just hold conspiracies to a higher threshold than Lee Harvey Oswald

A bunch of hotheads in a Dallas bar could have come up with a better assassin than Oswald

But USSR, Cuba, Mafia...CIA????
A botched assassination would have brought down any one of them. You would think they have better resources........Look how Putin kills people

See this is where I differ. If Cuba did do it and it was clear that Russia would intervene if we invaded, basically it would be the end of the world. If you’re LBJ, are you willing to end the world over the assassination?

 

[Wolfstrike]

this debate was over when I pointed out 4 of 4 brothers had assassination attempts.

if you say conspiracy doesn't exist here, then you may as well claim Dallas city doesn't exist

you done.
it's over.
accept your shame

 

[rightwinger]

this debate was over when I pointed out 4 of 4 brothers had assassination attempts.

if you say conspiracy doesn't exist here, then you may as well claim Dallas city doesn't exist

you done.
it's over.
accept your shame

Only JFK and RFK

Joe Jr died of stupidity
Ted was in a plane crash that had other Senators in it

 

[Soupnazi630]

this debate was over when I pointed out 4 of 4 brothers had assassination attempts.

if you say conspiracy doesn't exist here, then you may as well claim Dallas city doesn't exist

you done.
it's over.
accept your shame

Wrong.

You were incorrect about all four of them having assassination attempts.

No one tried to assassinate Joseph Kennedy.

In addition it would not matter as it would not prove a conspiracy period. Sorry you failed and it was over when facts proved you wrong.

 

[candycorn]

Once again, the simplest explanation is the most likely

Oswald read in the paper that the JFK motorcade would go by his workplace. So he brought his gun to work, fired three shots and blew JFKs brains out

Could be.

Maybe not.

 

[candycorn]

The problem with all these JFK conspiracies is they fail at the level of conspiracy

A conspiracy implies careful planning. Would the Soviets, Cubans, Mafia or CIA select someone like Oswald to be the key to a political assasination that could start a war?
They would have selected a PROFESSIONAL assassin. Someone who would be in Dallas under a fake name. Someone who not only knew how to shoot, but had an escape plan that would either get him out of the country or kill him. Would a professional assassin use a $19.95 mail order bolt action rifle or a top line sniper rifle?
Instead we have Oswald. Undependable and mentally unstable. Oswald had no chance at escape. The police were going to check who worked at the Schoolbook Depository. Oswald would have been red flagged. Oswald wandered the city and shot a cop. He hid in a theater. Not what you would call a professional escape plan
If you were the Soviets, Cubans, Mafia or CIA.......would you trust Oswald with your conspiracy?

If Oswald were a “patsy” like he claimed, a conspirator like the USSR, Cuba, Mafia or CIA would have had him killed immediately after the shooting

Why allow your weakest link to go through two days of enhanced interrogation by the police?

One can only talk if he knows something.

 

[Soupnazi630]

The problem with all these JFK conspiracies is they fail at the level of conspiracy

A conspiracy implies careful planning. Would the Soviets, Cubans, Mafia or CIA select someone like Oswald to be the key to a political assasination that could start a war?

Well, that is one way to look at it. Another way would be (if you’re a national superpower) is this: Americans have it very well in the world—which is the truth. At any one time 1/2 of the nation wishes the President were someone else.—which is true. A shocking amount of the time sees the VP who will, by law, become president if the President is killed….was a recent political rival of the President; which in the case of LBJ was the truth. I’m not sure that is enough to move the needle but if you take into account that

99% of the nation has it better than 100% of the rest of the world
50% the nation isn’t going to “miss” the President
and the VP is going to become the President who may or may not be part of the 50%

I would wonder if that wasn’t enough to sway some national actor.

They would have selected a PROFESSIONAL assassin. Someone who would be in Dallas under a fake name. Someone who not only knew how to shoot, but had an escape plan that would either get him out of the country or kill him. Would a professional assassin use a $19.95 mail order bolt action rifle or a top line sniper rifle?

All good points. We know Oswald said he was a patsy. Which would account for him not having an escape plan. Perhaps someone was supposed to meet him which would account for his going home and the erratic behavior after he shot the President.
As for the Professional Assassin, I think Rumsfeld put it best when he said (paraphrasing); you don’t go to war with the army you wish you had; you go with the one you got.

More about this later….

Instead we have Oswald. Undependable and mentally unstable. Oswald had no chance at escape. The police were going to check who worked at the Schoolbook Depository. Oswald would have been red flagged. Oswald wandered the city and shot a cop. He hid in a theater. Not what you would call a professional escape plan
If you were the Soviets, Cubans, Mafia or CIA.......would you trust Oswald with your conspiracy?

Would I trust Oswald with this job? Not sure. However, if you’re Cuba and you have limited resources…you bring up to Russia that you want blood for the Bay of Pigs but they turn you down…you look at your list of options. Oswald isn’t your mail-order assassin for darn sure….but if you’re Cuba, you don’t exactly have a bunch of options in the James Bond department do you?

I wouldn’t be surprised if he was a lone nut. I think that there are way too many coincidences for that to be the case and that any spy agency or surveillance service would have had him marked and accounted for if he was anywhere near Dallas when the President was visiting… I wouldn’t be surprised though if Cuba enlisted him and then left him to fend for himself.
Thanks to Jack Ruby; we never heard Oswald’s side of the story.

I just hold conspiracies to a higher threshold than Lee Harvey Oswald

A bunch of hotheads in a Dallas bar could have come up with a better assassin than Oswald

But USSR, Cuba, Mafia...CIA????
A botched assassination would have brought down any one of them. You would think they have better resources........Look how Putin kills people

See this is where I differ. If Cuba did do it and it was clear that Russia would intervene if we invaded, basically it would be the end of the world. If you’re LBJ, are you willing to end the world over the assassination?

Once again, the simplest explanation is the most likely

Oswald read in the paper that the JFK motorcade would go by his workplace. So he brought his gun to work, fired three shots and blew JFKs brains out

Could be.

Maybe not.

While it is true anything is possible the evidence shows Oswald did exactly that and acted alone.

No evidence exists of a conspiracy and it would have been illogical for there to be such a conspiracy.

 

[rightwinger]

this debate was over when I pointed out 4 of 4 brothers had assassination attempts.

if you say conspiracy doesn't exist here, then you may as well claim Dallas city doesn't exist

you done.
it's over.
accept your shame

Wrong.

You were incorrect about all four of them having assassination attempts.

No one tried to assassinate Joseph Kennedy.

In addition it would not matter as it would not prove a conspiracy period. Sorry you failed and it was over when facts proved you wrong.

Who cared about Joe Kennedy in 1944?

 

[rightwinger]

The problem with all these JFK conspiracies is they fail at the level of conspiracy

A conspiracy implies careful planning. Would the Soviets, Cubans, Mafia or CIA select someone like Oswald to be the key to a political assasination that could start a war?
They would have selected a PROFESSIONAL assassin. Someone who would be in Dallas under a fake name. Someone who not only knew how to shoot, but had an escape plan that would either get him out of the country or kill him. Would a professional assassin use a $19.95 mail order bolt action rifle or a top line sniper rifle?
Instead we have Oswald. Undependable and mentally unstable. Oswald had no chance at escape. The police were going to check who worked at the Schoolbook Depository. Oswald would have been red flagged. Oswald wandered the city and shot a cop. He hid in a theater. Not what you would call a professional escape plan
If you were the Soviets, Cubans, Mafia or CIA.......would you trust Oswald with your conspiracy?

If Oswald were a “patsy” like he claimed, a conspirator like the USSR, Cuba, Mafia or CIA would have had him killed immediately after the shooting

Why allow your weakest link to go through two days of enhanced interrogation by the police?

One can only talk if he knows something.

Oswald didn’t know anything?

The murder weapon, HIS gun, was found on the sixth floor of TSBD
Why did he run from the scene and then kill a cop?

I dint do nuttin

 

[Soupnazi630]

The problem with all these JFK conspiracies is they fail at the level of conspiracy

A conspiracy implies careful planning. Would the Soviets, Cubans, Mafia or CIA select someone like Oswald to be the key to a political assasination that could start a war?
They would have selected a PROFESSIONAL assassin. Someone who would be in Dallas under a fake name. Someone who not only knew how to shoot, but had an escape plan that would either get him out of the country or kill him. Would a professional assassin use a $19.95 mail order bolt action rifle or a top line sniper rifle?
Instead we have Oswald. Undependable and mentally unstable. Oswald had no chance at escape. The police were going to check who worked at the Schoolbook Depository. Oswald would have been red flagged. Oswald wandered the city and shot a cop. He hid in a theater. Not what you would call a professional escape plan
If you were the Soviets, Cubans, Mafia or CIA.......would you trust Oswald with your conspiracy?

If Oswald were a “patsy” like he claimed, a conspirator like the USSR, Cuba, Mafia or CIA would have had him killed immediately after the shooting

Why allow your weakest link to go through two days of enhanced interrogation by the police?

One can only talk if he knows something.

Even if he were only a Patsy he was there and definetely would have known something.

Even if a lot of details were kept from him it would have all come together the moment Kennedy was shot. Even if information were compartmentalized on a need to know basis that sort of secrecy would have ended immediately. Much the same way everyone involved with the Manhattan project found out why they were doing what they were doing as soon as Hiroshima was nuked.

 

[Wolfstrike]

if the kennedys were raised from the grave and told you government elements killed them, you would still deny it

 

[Soupnazi630]

if the kennedys were raised from the grave and told you government elements killed them, you would still deny it

If dead people were rising from the grave the last thing I would be worried about is how they died or who killed them.

There is nothing to deny.

It is all about the evidence. There is no evidence of a conspiracy to kill Kennedy. Many people ( including you ) apparently have an ideological need to believe in such a conspiracy for others it is about the evidence.

 

[Wolfstrike]

Your buddy Zapruder

questions answered here. Zapruder knew

 

[Wolfstrike]

if the kennedys were raised from the grave and told you government elements killed them, you would still deny it

If dead people were rising from the grave the last thing I would be worried about is how they died or who killed them.

There is nothing to deny.

It is all about the evidence. There is no evidence of a conspiracy to kill Kennedy. Many people ( including you ) apparently have an ideological need to believe in such a conspiracy for others it is about the evidence.

I have a lot of evidence the government killed the Kennedys, going all the back the political career of joseph p kennedy, where the problems started.

the problem I have is people won't read a lot of information, and people only believe what they want

 

[Soupnazi630]

Your buddy Zapruder

questions answered here. Zapruder knew

Not really.

Instead of answering anything at all they simply draw silly conclusions.

As we have shown it is not abnormal for anyone to film a celebrity and the president is a huge celebrity. Amateur photographers or film makers often do try to find unique vantage points as opposed to standing in the thick of the crowd as the silly video claims he should have done.

There is simply nothing abnormal or suspicious about Zapruders film.