John 3:16 means you have to be Christian to get into heaven

[hobelim]

When Jesus said they were a long time off, wars and rumors of wars, the second temple destruction and diaspora, the gospel preach worldwide, the second ingathering, etc.... he was ridiculed and laughed to scorn.

I wasn't aware Jesus said the end times were a long time off. Would you please elucidate?

Hob's full of crap.

But I thought that you said that you loved me?

lol...

Were you full of crap?

 

[hobelim]

When Jesus said they were a long time off, wars and rumors of wars, the second temple destruction and diaspora, the gospel preach worldwide, the second ingathering, etc.... he was ridiculed and laughed to scorn.

I wasn't aware Jesus said the end times were a long time off. Would you please elucidate?

According to the story Jesus predicted the destruction of Jerusalem, the temple, their way of life, the slaughter, enslavement, and exile of hundreds of thousands of Jews at a time when everyone else thought the messiah was going to fly down from the sky with a host of fiery angels, and destroy the Romans oppressors, ANY MINUTE!

When he said "this generation will live to see it all", the litany of maledictions, he was referring to the generation of error, the age of darkness, where people conformed to the Law according to the instruction of the Talmud, what Jesus called the traditions of men, coincidentally the only branch of Judaism the Romans allowed to persist and continues to usurp a place of authority over the Jewish people to this day.

 

[alang1216]

When Jesus said they were a long time off, wars and rumors of wars, the second temple destruction and diaspora, the gospel preach worldwide, the second ingathering, etc.... he was ridiculed and laughed to scorn.

I wasn't aware Jesus said the end times were a long time off. Would you please elucidate?

When he said "this generation will live to see it all", he was referring to the generation of error, the age of darkness, where people conformed to the Law according to the instruction of the Talmud, what Jesus called the traditions of men, coincidentally the only branch of Judaism the Romans allowed to persist and continues to usurp a place of authority over the Jewish people to this day.

So you said before. However, that is not an answer to my question:

I wasn't aware Jesus said the end times were a long time off. Would you please elucidate?

Here's you chance to prove your detractors wrong.

 

[hobelim]

When Jesus said they were a long time off, wars and rumors of wars, the second temple destruction and diaspora, the gospel preach worldwide, the second ingathering, etc.... he was ridiculed and laughed to scorn.

I wasn't aware Jesus said the end times were a long time off. Would you please elucidate?

When he said "this generation will live to see it all", he was referring to the generation of error, the age of darkness, where people conformed to the Law according to the instruction of the Talmud, what Jesus called the traditions of men, coincidentally the only branch of Judaism the Romans allowed to persist and continues to usurp a place of authority over the Jewish people to this day.

So you said before. However, that is not an answer to my question:

I wasn't aware Jesus said the end times were a long time off. Would you please elucidate?

Here's you chance to prove your detractors wrong.

How can I make it anymore clear than I already did?

Jesus said the end ( of the age of darkness) was a long time off, wars and rumors of wars, The siege of Jerusalem, the second temple destruction, another diaspora, the gospel preach worldwide, the second ingathering, etc....

wtf! I have detractors? Your kidding me, right? lol...




And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Behold, I have told you before.

Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Indeependent]

When Jesus said they were a long time off, wars and rumors of wars, the second temple destruction and diaspora, the gospel preach worldwide, the second ingathering, etc.... he was ridiculed and laughed to scorn.

I wasn't aware Jesus said the end times were a long time off. Would you please elucidate?

Hob's full of crap.

But I thought that you said that you loved me?

lol...

Were you full of crap?

I love you when you're sane.

 

[hobelim]

When Jesus said they were a long time off, wars and rumors of wars, the second temple destruction and diaspora, the gospel preach worldwide, the second ingathering, etc.... he was ridiculed and laughed to scorn.

I wasn't aware Jesus said the end times were a long time off. Would you please elucidate?

Hob's full of crap.

But I thought that you said that you loved me?

lol...

Were you full of crap?

I love you when you're sane.

You actually thought at some point that I was sane? lol...

I suppose thats better than most...


I guess I will leave a trail of crumbs for you to follow.

By the time you have the sense to look up you will find yourself in another better reality...

You can thank me later.

 

[Vandalshandle]

The whole John 3:16 thing makes no sense at all. Has god become impotent, and can not have any more children? Would any father on earth father a son for the sole purpose of having him killed in a tortuous death? Why in the hell does god feel the need to have his own son killed because of his own failed creation of the world to his liking?

Start with the ideology of the time. Forgiveness of sins was dependent upon sacrifice, which is not so bad in good economic times. However, at the beginning of the first century, Israel was a conquered nation, and for most it was a time of Roman oppression and poverty. The exception: Some corrupt Jewish leaders who were making themselves wealthy in their dealings with the Romans. Enter Jesus at a time many Jews were between a rock (the Romans) and a hard place (their own corrupt leaders). Also recall that Temple revenue relied on the sacrificial offerings people brought in.

Enter Jesus with his compassion for those in poverty who were no longer able to afford to keep the law, let alone offer sacrifice for the forgiveness of these sins. Jesus began preaching, "Repentance (not sacrifice) for the forgiveness of sins." Jesus had many friends among the good people in the well-to-do class. However, he immediately made enemies among the corrupt leadership. They feared a decease in the much needed Temple revenue, and they also feared an uprising among the Jews which would result in their Roman masters removing them from power and wealth.

Their challenge right back to Jesus: Who are you to change our laws and customs, given to us by Moses from God? Jesus responded that he was the son of God, and that even Moses prophesied that God would send someone even greater than he (Moses). Jesus told them he was only speaking what God, Himself, willed for him to say.

Now let's talk Covenants. Whenever God made a Covenant with His people, a blood sacrifice (of an animal) was the seal of that covenant. Jesus was testifying that God intended that a new covenant (testament) be established between God and humans.

Jesus with his testimony was getting the leaders more and more riled up. They insisted he stop. They threatened him. But Jesus insisted that his message be heard, that this new covenant with God be recognized and accepted--that this was God's will that he carry out.

In the end, Jesus himself laid down his life as the blood sacrifice needed for people to recognize this new covenant between God and man. The fact that the Temple was destroyed less than forty years later gave additional credence for this new covenant of repentance instead of Temple sacrifice.

The idea that God sent his son to be punished for the sins of mankind was an idea that came from the so-called "Reformation." Jesus laid down his life so that we might be assured our sins are forgiven--not by his death, but by the Covenant of Repentance for the Forgiveness of Sins. We do what we can to repent (turn away from and make up for) the sins we have committed, and God will take care of that portion of that sin we are not able to fix ourselves. We are forgiven upon our repentance, which simply entails turning from sin and turning to God. Jesus gave his life that this message might become known to the ends of the earth and that by his blood it be truly recognized as God's New Covenant (Testament) with mankind.

Sounds to me to be more of a political and sociological issue than a religious issue. For example, I have seen it on TV, so I know that it is true that god does not care about sacrifice anymore. He just wasn't "seed money".

 

[Indeependent]

When Jesus said they were a long time off, wars and rumors of wars, the second temple destruction and diaspora, the gospel preach worldwide, the second ingathering, etc.... he was ridiculed and laughed to scorn.

I wasn't aware Jesus said the end times were a long time off. Would you please elucidate?

Hob's full of crap.

But I thought that you said that you loved me?

lol...

Were you full of crap?

I love you when you're sane.

You actually thought at some point that I was sane? lol...

I suppose thats better than most...


I guess I will leave a trail of crumbs for you to follow.

By the time you have the sense to look up you will find yourself in another better reality...

You can thank me later.

I already proved from Scripture that God isn't a bastard and you ignored the post.

 

[hobelim]

I wasn't aware Jesus said the end times were a long time off. Would you please elucidate?

Hob's full of crap.

But I thought that you said that you loved me?

lol...

Were you full of crap?

I love you when you're sane.

You actually thought at some point that I was sane? lol...

I suppose thats better than most...


I guess I will leave a trail of crumbs for you to follow.

By the time you have the sense to look up you will find yourself in another better reality...

You can thank me later.

I already proved from Scripture that God isn't a bastard and you ignored the post.

If you believe in a god that gives a crap about what people eat or wear and wants you to cut off the foreskins of infants to prove your faith, that would be a belief in a bastard.

 

[Indeependent]

When Jesus said they were a long time off, wars and rumors of wars, the second temple destruction and diaspora, the gospel preach worldwide, the second ingathering, etc.... he was ridiculed and laughed to scorn.

I wasn't aware Jesus said the end times were a long time off. Would you please elucidate?

When he said "this generation will live to see it all", he was referring to the generation of error, the age of darkness, where people conformed to the Law according to the instruction of the Talmud, what Jesus called the traditions of men, coincidentally the only branch of Judaism the Romans allowed to persist and continues to usurp a place of authority over the Jewish people to this day.

So you said before. However, that is not an answer to my question:

I wasn't aware Jesus said the end times were a long time off. Would you please elucidate?

Here's you chance to prove your detractors wrong.

How can I make it anymore clear than I already did?

Jesus said the end ( of the age of darkness) was a long time off, wars and rumors of wars, The siege of Jerusalem, the second temple destruction, another diaspora, the gospel preach worldwide, the second ingathering, etc....

wtf! I have detractors? Your kidding me, right? lol...




And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Behold, I have told you before.

Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Isn't that John Galt's final speech from Atlas Shrugged?

 

[alang1216]

The whole John 3:16 thing makes no sense at all. Has god become impotent, and can not have any more children? Would any father on earth father a son for the sole purpose of having him killed in a tortuous death? Why in the hell does god feel the need to have his own son killed because of his own failed creation of the world to his liking?

Start with the ideology of the time. Forgiveness of sins was dependent upon sacrifice, which is not so bad in good economic times. However, at the beginning of the first century, Israel was a conquered nation, and for most it was a time of Roman oppression and poverty. The exception: Some corrupt Jewish leaders who were making themselves wealthy in their dealings with the Romans. Enter Jesus at a time many Jews were between a rock (the Romans) and a hard place (their own corrupt leaders). Also recall that Temple revenue relied on the sacrificial offerings people brought in.

Enter Jesus with his compassion for those in poverty who were no longer able to afford to keep the law, let alone offer sacrifice for the forgiveness of these sins. Jesus began preaching, "Repentance (not sacrifice) for the forgiveness of sins." Jesus had many friends among the good people in the well-to-do class. However, he immediately made enemies among the corrupt leadership. They feared a decease in the much needed Temple revenue, and they also feared an uprising among the Jews which would result in their Roman masters removing them from power and wealth.

Their challenge right back to Jesus: Who are you to change our laws and customs, given to us by Moses from God? Jesus responded that he was the son of God, and that even Moses prophesied that God would send someone even greater than he (Moses). Jesus told them he was only speaking what God, Himself, willed for him to say.

Now let's talk Covenants. Whenever God made a Covenant with His people, a blood sacrifice (of an animal) was the seal of that covenant. Jesus was testifying that God intended that a new covenant (testament) be established between God and humans.

Jesus with his testimony was getting the leaders more and more riled up. They insisted he stop. They threatened him. But Jesus insisted that his message be heard, that this new covenant with God be recognized and accepted--that this was God's will that he carry out.

In the end, Jesus himself laid down his life as the blood sacrifice needed for people to recognize this new covenant between God and man. The fact that the Temple was destroyed less than forty years later gave additional credence for this new covenant of repentance instead of Temple sacrifice.

The idea that God sent his son to be punished for the sins of mankind was an idea that came from the so-called "Reformation." Jesus laid down his life so that we might be assured our sins are forgiven--not by his death, but by the Covenant of Repentance for the Forgiveness of Sins. We do what we can to repent (turn away from and make up for) the sins we have committed, and God will take care of that portion of that sin we are not able to fix ourselves. We are forgiven upon our repentance, which simply entails turning from sin and turning to God. Jesus gave his life that this message might become known to the ends of the earth and that by his blood it be truly recognized as God's New Covenant (Testament) with mankind.

When Jesus said they were a long time off, wars and rumors of wars, the second temple destruction and diaspora, the gospel preach worldwide, the second ingathering, etc.... he was ridiculed and laughed to scorn.

I wasn't aware Jesus said the end times were a long time off. Would you please elucidate?

When he said "this generation will live to see it all", he was referring to the generation of error, the age of darkness, where people conformed to the Law according to the instruction of the Talmud, what Jesus called the traditions of men, coincidentally the only branch of Judaism the Romans allowed to persist and continues to usurp a place of authority over the Jewish people to this day.

So you said before. However, that is not an answer to my question:

I wasn't aware Jesus said the end times were a long time off. Would you please elucidate?

Here's you chance to prove your detractors wrong.

How can I make it anymore clear than I already did?

Jesus said the end ( of the age of darkness) was a long time off, wars and rumors of wars, The siege of Jerusalem, the second temple destruction, another diaspora, the gospel preach worldwide, the second ingathering, etc....

wtf! I have detractors? Your kidding me, right? lol...




And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Behold, I have told you before.

Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Sane and lucid, no wonder you are so loved.
I can't say I agree with the interpretation but thanks.

 

[Indeependent]

Hob's full of crap.

But I thought that you said that you loved me?

lol...

Were you full of crap?

I love you when you're sane.

You actually thought at some point that I was sane? lol...

I suppose thats better than most...


I guess I will leave a trail of crumbs for you to follow.

By the time you have the sense to look up you will find yourself in another better reality...

You can thank me later.

I already proved from Scripture that God isn't a bastard and you ignored the post.

If you believe in a god that gives a crap about what people eat or wear and wants you to cut off the foreskins of infants to prove your faith, that would be a belief in a bastard.

Like a God that enabled His Church to murder tens of millions of people using The Gospels According to John & Matthew?

 

[hobelim]

But I thought that you said that you loved me?

lol...

Were you full of crap?

I love you when you're sane.

You actually thought at some point that I was sane? lol...

I suppose thats better than most...


I guess I will leave a trail of crumbs for you to follow.

By the time you have the sense to look up you will find yourself in another better reality...

You can thank me later.

I already proved from Scripture that God isn't a bastard and you ignored the post.

If you believe in a god that gives a crap about what people eat or wear and wants you to cut off the foreskins of infants to prove your faith, that would be a belief in a bastard.

Like a God that enabled His Church to murder tens of millions of people using The Gospels According to John & Matthew?

Yeah, thats pretty fucked up too.

I for one would demand an explanation from God (not you) before I ever went after an infant with a knife.

And God's church had nothing to do with the slaughter of tens of millions of people. Those were the guys who worship an edible mangod.

 

[Indeependent]

The whole John 3:16 thing makes no sense at all. Has god become impotent, and can not have any more children? Would any father on earth father a son for the sole purpose of having him killed in a tortuous death? Why in the hell does god feel the need to have his own son killed because of his own failed creation of the world to his liking?

Start with the ideology of the time. Forgiveness of sins was dependent upon sacrifice, which is not so bad in good economic times. However, at the beginning of the first century, Israel was a conquered nation, and for most it was a time of Roman oppression and poverty. The exception: Some corrupt Jewish leaders who were making themselves wealthy in their dealings with the Romans. Enter Jesus at a time many Jews were between a rock (the Romans) and a hard place (their own corrupt leaders). Also recall that Temple revenue relied on the sacrificial offerings people brought in.

Enter Jesus with his compassion for those in poverty who were no longer able to afford to keep the law, let alone offer sacrifice for the forgiveness of these sins. Jesus began preaching, "Repentance (not sacrifice) for the forgiveness of sins." Jesus had many friends among the good people in the well-to-do class. However, he immediately made enemies among the corrupt leadership. They feared a decease in the much needed Temple revenue, and they also feared an uprising among the Jews which would result in their Roman masters removing them from power and wealth.

Their challenge right back to Jesus: Who are you to change our laws and customs, given to us by Moses from God? Jesus responded that he was the son of God, and that even Moses prophesied that God would send someone even greater than he (Moses). Jesus told them he was only speaking what God, Himself, willed for him to say.

Now let's talk Covenants. Whenever God made a Covenant with His people, a blood sacrifice (of an animal) was the seal of that covenant. Jesus was testifying that God intended that a new covenant (testament) be established between God and humans.

Jesus with his testimony was getting the leaders more and more riled up. They insisted he stop. They threatened him. But Jesus insisted that his message be heard, that this new covenant with God be recognized and accepted--that this was God's will that he carry out.

In the end, Jesus himself laid down his life as the blood sacrifice needed for people to recognize this new covenant between God and man. The fact that the Temple was destroyed less than forty years later gave additional credence for this new covenant of repentance instead of Temple sacrifice.

The idea that God sent his son to be punished for the sins of mankind was an idea that came from the so-called "Reformation." Jesus laid down his life so that we might be assured our sins are forgiven--not by his death, but by the Covenant of Repentance for the Forgiveness of Sins. We do what we can to repent (turn away from and make up for) the sins we have committed, and God will take care of that portion of that sin we are not able to fix ourselves. We are forgiven upon our repentance, which simply entails turning from sin and turning to God. Jesus gave his life that this message might become known to the ends of the earth and that by his blood it be truly recognized as God's New Covenant (Testament) with mankind.

When Jesus said they were a long time off, wars and rumors of wars, the second temple destruction and diaspora, the gospel preach worldwide, the second ingathering, etc.... he was ridiculed and laughed to scorn.

I wasn't aware Jesus said the end times were a long time off. Would you please elucidate?

When he said "this generation will live to see it all", he was referring to the generation of error, the age of darkness, where people conformed to the Law according to the instruction of the Talmud, what Jesus called the traditions of men, coincidentally the only branch of Judaism the Romans allowed to persist and continues to usurp a place of authority over the Jewish people to this day.

So you said before. However, that is not an answer to my question:

I wasn't aware Jesus said the end times were a long time off. Would you please elucidate?

Here's you chance to prove your detractors wrong.

How can I make it anymore clear than I already did?

Jesus said the end ( of the age of darkness) was a long time off, wars and rumors of wars, The siege of Jerusalem, the second temple destruction, another diaspora, the gospel preach worldwide, the second ingathering, etc....

wtf! I have detractors? Your kidding me, right? lol...




And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Behold, I have told you before.

Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Sane and lucid, no wonder you are so loved.
I can't say I agree with the interpretation but thanks.

I'm not the one tossing out opinions based on vapor.

 

[Indeependent]

I love you when you're sane.

You actually thought at some point that I was sane? lol...

I suppose thats better than most...


I guess I will leave a trail of crumbs for you to follow.

By the time you have the sense to look up you will find yourself in another better reality...

You can thank me later.

I already proved from Scripture that God isn't a bastard and you ignored the post.

If you believe in a god that gives a crap about what people eat or wear and wants you to cut off the foreskins of infants to prove your faith, that would be a belief in a bastard.

Like a God that enabled His Church to murder tens of millions of people using The Gospels According to John & Matthew?

Yeah, thats pretty fucked up.

No Commandments, no path in life to follow.

 

[Meriweather]

Sounds to me to be more of a political and sociological issue than a religious issue. For example, I have seen it on TV, so I know that it is true that god does not care about sacrifice anymore. He just wasn't "seed money".

Yes, threes intertwine so much of the human condition.

 

[hobelim]

You actually thought at some point that I was sane? lol...

I suppose thats better than most...


I guess I will leave a trail of crumbs for you to follow.

By the time you have the sense to look up you will find yourself in another better reality...

You can thank me later.

I already proved from Scripture that God isn't a bastard and you ignored the post.

If you believe in a god that gives a crap about what people eat or wear and wants you to cut off the foreskins of infants to prove your faith, that would be a belief in a bastard.

Like a God that enabled His Church to murder tens of millions of people using The Gospels According to John & Matthew?

Yeah, thats pretty fucked up.

No Commandments, no path in life to follow.

I agree.

But which way is the right way to follow the law that leads to the fulfillment of the promise of life?

Is the subject of Kosher law teaching that eating or abstaining from certain foods is the way to a holy life?

Or, is Kosher law teaching that distinguishing between clean and unclean teaching is the way to a holy life?

It can't be both ways for the literal interpretation violates the deeper implications of the exact same law.


One way leads to life, the other death.


Whatever you have done in the past, what is your choice now?

 

[hobelim]

The whole John 3:16 thing makes no sense at all. Has god become impotent, and can not have any more children? Would any father on earth father a son for the sole purpose of having him killed in a tortuous death? Why in the hell does god feel the need to have his own son killed because of his own failed creation of the world to his liking?

Start with the ideology of the time. Forgiveness of sins was dependent upon sacrifice, which is not so bad in good economic times. However, at the beginning of the first century, Israel was a conquered nation, and for most it was a time of Roman oppression and poverty. The exception: Some corrupt Jewish leaders who were making themselves wealthy in their dealings with the Romans. Enter Jesus at a time many Jews were between a rock (the Romans) and a hard place (their own corrupt leaders). Also recall that Temple revenue relied on the sacrificial offerings people brought in.

Enter Jesus with his compassion for those in poverty who were no longer able to afford to keep the law, let alone offer sacrifice for the forgiveness of these sins. Jesus began preaching, "Repentance (not sacrifice) for the forgiveness of sins." Jesus had many friends among the good people in the well-to-do class. However, he immediately made enemies among the corrupt leadership. They feared a decease in the much needed Temple revenue, and they also feared an uprising among the Jews which would result in their Roman masters removing them from power and wealth.

Their challenge right back to Jesus: Who are you to change our laws and customs, given to us by Moses from God? Jesus responded that he was the son of God, and that even Moses prophesied that God would send someone even greater than he (Moses). Jesus told them he was only speaking what God, Himself, willed for him to say.

Now let's talk Covenants. Whenever God made a Covenant with His people, a blood sacrifice (of an animal) was the seal of that covenant. Jesus was testifying that God intended that a new covenant (testament) be established between God and humans.

Jesus with his testimony was getting the leaders more and more riled up. They insisted he stop. They threatened him. But Jesus insisted that his message be heard, that this new covenant with God be recognized and accepted--that this was God's will that he carry out.

In the end, Jesus himself laid down his life as the blood sacrifice needed for people to recognize this new covenant between God and man. The fact that the Temple was destroyed less than forty years later gave additional credence for this new covenant of repentance instead of Temple sacrifice.

The idea that God sent his son to be punished for the sins of mankind was an idea that came from the so-called "Reformation." Jesus laid down his life so that we might be assured our sins are forgiven--not by his death, but by the Covenant of Repentance for the Forgiveness of Sins. We do what we can to repent (turn away from and make up for) the sins we have committed, and God will take care of that portion of that sin we are not able to fix ourselves. We are forgiven upon our repentance, which simply entails turning from sin and turning to God. Jesus gave his life that this message might become known to the ends of the earth and that by his blood it be truly recognized as God's New Covenant (Testament) with mankind.

When Jesus said they were a long time off, wars and rumors of wars, the second temple destruction and diaspora, the gospel preach worldwide, the second ingathering, etc.... he was ridiculed and laughed to scorn.

I wasn't aware Jesus said the end times were a long time off. Would you please elucidate?

When he said "this generation will live to see it all", he was referring to the generation of error, the age of darkness, where people conformed to the Law according to the instruction of the Talmud, what Jesus called the traditions of men, coincidentally the only branch of Judaism the Romans allowed to persist and continues to usurp a place of authority over the Jewish people to this day.

So you said before. However, that is not an answer to my question:

I wasn't aware Jesus said the end times were a long time off. Would you please elucidate?

Here's you chance to prove your detractors wrong.

How can I make it anymore clear than I already did?

Jesus said the end ( of the age of darkness) was a long time off, wars and rumors of wars, The siege of Jerusalem, the second temple destruction, another diaspora, the gospel preach worldwide, the second ingathering, etc....

wtf! I have detractors? Your kidding me, right? lol...




And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Behold, I have told you before.

Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Sane and lucid, no wonder you are so loved.
I can't say I agree with the interpretation but thanks.

I didn't provide an interpretation. You pretended to be shocked that Jesus said the end was a long time off and then I showed you were he said it.

You can disagree with any interpretation you like but how can you disagree with what you saw with your own eyes?

Its all very strange if you ask me...

 

[alang1216]

I didn't provide an interpretation. You pretended to be shocked that Jesus said the end was a long time off and then I showed you were he said it.

You can disagree with any interpretation you like but how can you disagree with what you saw with your own eyes?

Its all very strange if you ask me...

Your interpretation was:

When he said "this generation will live to see it all", he was referring to the generation of error, the age of darkness, where people conformed to the Law according to the instruction of the Talmud, what Jesus called the traditions of men, coincidentally the only branch of Judaism the Romans allowed to persist and continues to usurp a place of authority over the Jewish people to this day.​

You're welcome to your interpretation but I prefer mine, that he thought the end of times was near the God would establish his kingdom on earth, Israel. I'm in very good company:

New Testament scholar Bart D. Ehrman argues that Jesus was an apocalyptic preacher, i.e., his main message was that the end of history was near, that God would shortly intervene to overthrow evil and establish his rule on earth, and that Jesus and his disciples all believed these end time events would occur in their lifetimes.

 

[jillian]

The Bible is not a literal text, and those who believe that it is so, are concrete learners and cannot abstract.

er... the issue here is that they're trying to use their own book to prove the validity of that book.