John 3:16 means you have to be Christian to get into heaven

[BreezeWood]

God told Moses what the Israelites were up to back in camp, that they had turned aside quickly out of the way which God commanded them and he was going to destroy them and start a new people from Moses. Moses besought and pleaded that they should be spared (Exodus 32:11-14), and God "repented of the evil which He said He would do unto His people." Moses went down from the mountain, but upon seeing the calf, he became angry and threw down the two Tablets of Stone, breaking them.


God told Moses what the Israelites were up to back in camp ... Moses went down from the mountain, but upon seeing the calf, he became angry and threw down the two Tablets of Stone, breaking them.


that really makes little sense, if moses were told beforehand why would he become angry when he saw what was described ... and why would that be a reason to destroy the tablets - supposedly etched by the Almighty.

those tablets would have been the proof for all ages, moses by destroying them would have committed a greater crime than the crime he destroyed them for, the jews to this day are misled.

Indeependent is wrong about the revelation, that was only the words from an aspiring lunatic ...



* God "repented of the evil which He said He would do unto His people ...

sure, the Almighty's action would have been "evil" - that moses knew quite well how to keep his flock from ever turning on him - is the real story behind the "scripture".

Moshe saw them dancing.
They saw Moshe and didn't stop dancing.
If they stopped and apologized, Moshe would not have been so upset.
Moshe goes up to the mountain 2x for 40 days each to beg God for a do over.

What's your point?

.

Moshe saw them dancing.
They saw Moshe and didn't stop dancing.
If they stopped and apologized, Moshe would not have been so upset.
Moshe goes up to the mountain 2x for 40 days each to beg God for a do over.

What's your point?

What's your point?


"moshe" destroys tables etched by the Almighty and you ask "what's your point" ... did moshe have permission to do that - and you criticize "them" for dancing. why weren't some of them with moses up in the mountain ... who's fault was it they failed to apologies.

* there seems little difference between moses and mohamed, flip a coin for which religion is less trustworthy than the other.

The Rebbe On Why Moses Broke the Tablets
Of course you can't read Hebrew but the word God uses to remind Moshe that he broke the tablets means, "The Tablets that you fortunately broke."

.

"The Tablets that you fortunately broke."

Enigmatic Climax ...

it is not possible to know what was written when they were destroyed, you can not have both by the answer given. how is it they claim to know their content.

I study the entire Torah in depth every year.
You're way out of your league.

.

I study the entire Torah in depth every year.
You're way out of your league.

The Triumph of Good vs Evil is all there is necessary in reference to the religion of the Almighty. accomplished through the Apex of Knowledge, purity of a Freed Spirit.

the recorded history of your written desert religions speak otherwise.

 

[Care4all]

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Is there any support in the Bible for the opposite position, that a man or woman can obtain salvation without belief in Christ?

Because this is a pretty common belief, even among Christians, and I think it is wrong.

Another passage where Christ said,
''no one comes to the Father, but through me'' which implies what you are claiming but it also could simply mean that He is the judge of all mankind, so whether you are a Jew or Buddhist or Muslim or Christian you will still stand before Christ on judgement day, and in another passage Christ says He will judge Christians as Christians, and all others who are not Christian will be judged by the Law.... so basically by ones ''good works'' or evil doings.... because He also says in scripture that He will separate the sheep from the goats when He is judging the people within Nations....if they fed the poor, helped the stranger, visited the person in prison, took care of the sick etc He took them with Him or gave them a pass to Heaven, if they did not, then they went to be with Satan, their father.... All of that judgement included every body, including people of all religions or no religion at all...

SO true Christians are promised ever lasting life through grace and get to Heaven through their belief in their savior, Jesus Christ, but ALL others still have a chance on judgement day, to get a pass in to Heaven by Christ's mercy and by the Law.....when He judges them...

SO no body goes to heaven but through Christ, those who believe and those who may not....cuz He judges all....regardless of religion....

is how I view it....of course, I could be wrong!

 

[Vandalshandle]

The whole John 3:16 thing makes no sense at all. Has god become impotent, and can not have any more children? Would any father on earth father a son for the sole purpose of having him killed in a tortuous death? Why in the hell does god feel the need to have his own son killed because of his own failed creation of the world to his liking?

 

[buttercup]

........... Studying Tanach more closely led to the fact that the NT is a total lie. .........

If Tanach is true, then NT must be true .....
OR ....
The God of Israel let the Temple be destroyed and ancient Israel be dispersed while letting faith in an impostor (or total imaginary character) to spread "like wildfire" and endure for 2000 years.

I just wanted to add that unfortunately many Jews simply cannot see the truth (the Gospel) and that’s something that was prophesied long ago. The veil is removed in Christ.

2 Corinthians 3:14

 

[Indeependent]

Moshe saw them dancing.
They saw Moshe and didn't stop dancing.
If they stopped and apologized, Moshe would not have been so upset.
Moshe goes up to the mountain 2x for 40 days each to beg God for a do over.

What's your point?

.

Moshe saw them dancing.
They saw Moshe and didn't stop dancing.
If they stopped and apologized, Moshe would not have been so upset.
Moshe goes up to the mountain 2x for 40 days each to beg God for a do over.

What's your point?

What's your point?


"moshe" destroys tables etched by the Almighty and you ask "what's your point" ... did moshe have permission to do that - and you criticize "them" for dancing. why weren't some of them with moses up in the mountain ... who's fault was it they failed to apologies.

* there seems little difference between moses and mohamed, flip a coin for which religion is less trustworthy than the other.

The Rebbe On Why Moses Broke the Tablets
Of course you can't read Hebrew but the word God uses to remind Moshe that he broke the tablets means, "The Tablets that you fortunately broke."

.

"The Tablets that you fortunately broke."

Enigmatic Climax ...

it is not possible to know what was written when they were destroyed, you can not have both by the answer given. how is it they claim to know their content.

I study the entire Torah in depth every year.
You're way out of your league.

.

I study the entire Torah in depth every year.
You're way out of your league.

The Triumph of Good vs Evil is all there is necessary in reference to the religion of the Almighty. accomplished through the Apex of Knowledge, purity of a Freed Spirit.

the recorded history of your written desert religions speak otherwise.

Define good
Define evil.
I'll wait.

 

[Indeependent]

........... Studying Tanach more closely led to the fact that the NT is a total lie. .........

If Tanach is true, then NT must be true .....
OR ....
The God of Israel let the Temple be destroyed and ancient Israel be dispersed while letting faith in an impostor (or total imaginary character) to spread "like wildfire" and endure for 2000 years.

I just wanted to add that unfortunately many Jews simply cannot see the truth (the Gospel) and that’s something that was prophesied long ago. The veil is removed in Christ.

2 Corinthians 3:14

And you've studied the original how many times?
The NT is a bad joke.

 

[alang1216]

What you need is the Aish Hatorah Discovery Weekend.
Aish HaTorah's Discovery Seminar
But that would require you leaving your house.

What it requires is faith that I wouldn't be wasting my time. That I don't have.

The Torah is a life long pursuit, not a magic pill.
I also know you're not truly interested.

Actually I am interested but what little I know about Torah has not inspired me to continue to study.

But I ask you to allow me to get amused when someone says, "The Bible is a bunch of fairy tales" and I respond, "OK, start from Genesis 1:1." and all I get is a bunch of verses, out of context, thrown at the wall.

If your mission is truly to inform then please start a "OK, start from Genesis 1:1" thread. Let us all share your amusement.

 

[Indeependent]

What you need is the Aish Hatorah Discovery Weekend.
Aish HaTorah's Discovery Seminar
But that would require you leaving your house.

What it requires is faith that I wouldn't be wasting my time. That I don't have.

The Torah is a life long pursuit, not a magic pill.
I also know you're not truly interested.

Actually I am interested but what little I know about Torah has not inspired me to continue to study.

But I ask you to allow me to get amused when someone says, "The Bible is a bunch of fairy tales" and I respond, "OK, start from Genesis 1:1." and all I get is a bunch of verses, out of context, thrown at the wall.

If your mission is truly to inform then please start a "OK, start from Genesis 1:1" thread. Let us all share your amusement.

There are a plethora of sites including Chabad and Aish.
I presume you are on a limited income and don't want to buy books.
I also don't know what type of discussions interest you.
I can answer a few questions here and there but for me to simply parrot what's out there already is rather pointless.

I guess the first question is why does the blueprint of creation start with the 2nd letter of the alphabet and why "In the beginning..." instead of simpy "God created the..."?

Google this question and see if anyone addresses this.

 

[alang1216]

I guess the first question is why does the blueprint of creation start with the 2nd letter of the alphabet and why "In the beginning..." instead of simpy "God created the..."?

Google this question and see if anyone addresses this.

None that I could find.

 

[hobelim]

I guess the first question is why does the blueprint of creation start with the 2nd letter of the alphabet and why "In the beginning..." instead of simpy "God created the..."?

Google this question and see if anyone addresses this.

None that I could find.

He's straining at a gnat while swallowing a camel...

Well done! Keep at it. The more you talk to him, the more you will understand Jesus and the teaching hidden in the NT.

 

[JohnPrewett]

............................I don't have to prove anything.
My duty as a Jew is to inform, not impose.
....................

At every form of intellectual endeavor, [such as: art, literature, banking/finance, technology, science, media, entertainment, music, academics]

Jews/Hebrews are either best in the world, or contenders for best in the world.


Concerning God, we all know Jews/Hebrews wrote the Bible.

So, it is understandable that Jews presume they must understand God better than non-Jews.

However, Hebrew scripture refutes that presumption.

Hebrew scripture reveals the Hebrews routinely rejected the leadership of God.

Hebrew scripture reveals those with the most pronounced "Hebrew mindset"

were the MOST RESISTANT to the leadership of God

Beginning with the brothers selling Joseph into slavery.

Joe the next youngest and most beloved of his father with the dreams of grandeur.

The brothers lied and said he was dead ... and were sure surprised when he became their savior and overlord !

Then Moses was initially rejected ... and had to flee Egypt. and Even after Moses was sent back empowered ... the Hebrews wanted to stone him a few times .....
the gold calf worshiping Hebrews angered God so much that none of them got into the promised land ...[except the two good spies]


The Lord said to Samuel, “Listen to the voice of the people in regard to all that they say to you,
for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me from being king over them.

they have rejected Me from being king over them.

they have rejected Me from being king over them.

they have rejected Me from being king over them. 1 Samuel 8:7


Then for centuries they routinely rejected God's word .. God's prophets ..

15 The Lord, the God of their fathers, sent word to them again and again by His messengers, because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place;
16 but they continually mocked the messengers of God, despised His words and scoffed at His prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against His people, until there was no remedy. 2 Chronicles 36


Alas, sinful nation, People weighed down with iniquity,

Offspring of evildoers, Sons who act corruptly!

They have abandoned the Lord, They have despised the Holy One of Israel, They have turned away from Him. Isaiah 1


Then those most expert in the Law ... men professing their fidelity to the Torah rejected Messiah and demanded His crucifixion


SO GET OFF THE HEBREW HIGH HORSE


If anything, in regard to getting to know God,

a "Hebrew mindset" is a retardant. An obstacle/hurdle to be overcome.

Stop telling the bs that I need a "Hebrew mindset"

or know Hebrew language to understand God.

Or need to call Messiah by some Hebrew name or some mongrel word meant to sound Hebrewish but spelled with English letters.


I don't. Nobody does.


We all need a rational mind led by the Holy Spirit to understand God

 

[JohnPrewett]

........... Studying Tanach more closely led to the fact that the NT is a total lie. .........

If Tanach is true, then NT must be true .....
OR ....
The God of Israel let the Temple be destroyed and ancient Israel be dispersed while letting faith in an impostor (or total imaginary character) to spread "like wildfire" and endure for 2000 years.

oh gee------billy graham "logic"

Billy Graham influences many millions .... OTOH you are a weightless nobody. Logic is logic ...."come let us reason together"

The Jewish establishment rejecting the God-sent Messiah is the ONLY rational reason for the God of Israel to allow the 70AD event to occur ....
while also allowing faith in Jesus to "spread like wildfire" all over the world .....

People who reject Jesus in fact also reject the OT .....

 

[alang1216]

He's straining at a gnat while swallowing a camel...

Well done! Keep at it. The more you talk to him, the more you will understand Jesus and the teaching hidden in the NT.

Thanks but I think I do understand Jesus and the NT.

Jesus was a Jewish zealot attempting to re-establish Jewish ownership of the land promised to them. Faith in God's word was to be enough to throw off the yoke of Roman rule in the end time he believe was imminent.

The NT was the mosaic of early Christian thought that shows it's evolution. It took the religion of Jesus and turned it into the religion about Jesus.

 

[hobelim]

in the end time he believe was imminent.

No, the popular belief almost to the point of hysteria was that the end times were imminent.

When Jesus said they were a long time off, wars and rumors of wars, the second temple destruction and diaspora, the gospel preach worldwide, the second ingathering, etc.... he was ridiculed and laughed to scorn.

When he said "this generation will live to see it all", he was referring to the generation of error, the age of darkness, where people conformed to the Law according to the instruction of the Talmud, what Jesus called the traditions of men, coincidentally the only branch of Judaism the Romans allowed to persist and continues to usurp a place of authority over the Jewish people to this day.

 

[Indeependent]

............................I don't have to prove anything.
My duty as a Jew is to inform, not impose.
....................

At every form of intellectual endeavor, [such as: art, literature, banking/finance, technology, science, media, entertainment, music, academics]

Jews/Hebrews are either best in the world, or contenders for best in the world.


Concerning God, we all know Jews/Hebrews wrote the Bible.

So, it is understandable that Jews presume they must understand God better than non-Jews.

However, Hebrew scripture refutes that presumption.

Hebrew scripture reveals the Hebrews routinely rejected the leadership of God.

Hebrew scripture reveals those with the most pronounced "Hebrew mindset"

were the MOST RESISTANT to the leadership of God

Beginning with the brothers selling Joseph into slavery.

Joe the next youngest and most beloved of his father with the dreams of grandeur.

The brothers lied and said he was dead ... and were sure surprised when he became their savior and overlord !

Then Moses was initially rejected ... and had to flee Egypt. and Even after Moses was sent back empowered ... the Hebrews wanted to stone him a few times .....
the gold calf worshiping Hebrews angered God so much that none of them got into the promised land ...[except the two good spies]


The Lord said to Samuel, “Listen to the voice of the people in regard to all that they say to you,
for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me from being king over them.

they have rejected Me from being king over them.

they have rejected Me from being king over them.

they have rejected Me from being king over them. 1 Samuel 8:7


Then for centuries they routinely rejected God's word .. God's prophets ..

15 The Lord, the God of their fathers, sent word to them again and again by His messengers, because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place;
16 but they continually mocked the messengers of God, despised His words and scoffed at His prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against His people, until there was no remedy. 2 Chronicles 36


Alas, sinful nation, People weighed down with iniquity,

Offspring of evildoers, Sons who act corruptly!

They have abandoned the Lord, They have despised the Holy One of Israel, They have turned away from Him. Isaiah 1


Then those most expert in the Law ... men professing their fidelity to the Torah rejected Messiah and demanded His crucifixion


SO GET OFF THE HEBREW HIGH HORSE


If anything, in regard to getting to know God,

a "Hebrew mindset" is a retardant. An obstacle/hurdle to be overcome.

Stop telling the bs that I need a "Hebrew mindset"

or know Hebrew language to understand God.

Or need to call Messiah by some Hebrew name or some mongrel word meant to sound Hebrewish but spelled with English letters.


I don't. Nobody does.


We all need a rational mind led by the Holy Spirit to understand God

God dictated the Torah to Moshe.
God is honest.

Everybody in the NT shits gold...very realistic.

 

[Indeependent]

........... Studying Tanach more closely led to the fact that the NT is a total lie. .........

If Tanach is true, then NT must be true .....
OR ....
The God of Israel let the Temple be destroyed and ancient Israel be dispersed while letting faith in an impostor (or total imaginary character) to spread "like wildfire" and endure for 2000 years.

oh gee------billy graham "logic"

Billy Graham influences many millions .... OTOH you are a weightless nobody. Logic is logic ...."come let us reason together"

The Jewish establishment rejecting the God-sent Messiah is the ONLY rational reason for the God of Israel to allow the 70AD event to occur ....
while also allowing faith in Jesus to "spread like wildfire" all over the world .....

People who reject Jesus in fact also reject the OT .....

And God said that the Jews would always be few in number...
Try reading something once in a while.

 

[Indeependent]

........... Studying Tanach more closely led to the fact that the NT is a total lie. .........

If Tanach is true, then NT must be true .....
OR ....
The God of Israel let the Temple be destroyed and ancient Israel be dispersed while letting faith in an impostor (or total imaginary character) to spread "like wildfire" and endure for 2000 years.

oh gee------billy graham "logic"

Billy Graham influences many millions .... OTOH you are a weightless nobody. Logic is logic ...."come let us reason together"

The Jewish establishment rejecting the God-sent Messiah is the ONLY rational reason for the God of Israel to allow the 70AD event to occur ....
while also allowing faith in Jesus to "spread like wildfire" all over the world .....

People who reject Jesus in fact also reject the OT .....

That explains why Islam, Hiduism and Buddism are falling by the wayside...not.

 

[alang1216]

When Jesus said they were a long time off, wars and rumors of wars, the second temple destruction and diaspora, the gospel preach worldwide, the second ingathering, etc.... he was ridiculed and laughed to scorn.

I wasn't aware Jesus said the end times were a long time off. Would you please elucidate?

 

[Indeependent]

When Jesus said they were a long time off, wars and rumors of wars, the second temple destruction and diaspora, the gospel preach worldwide, the second ingathering, etc.... he was ridiculed and laughed to scorn.

I wasn't aware Jesus said the end times were a long time off. Would you please elucidate?

Hob's full of crap.

 

[Meriweather]

The whole John 3:16 thing makes no sense at all. Has god become impotent, and can not have any more children? Would any father on earth father a son for the sole purpose of having him killed in a tortuous death? Why in the hell does god feel the need to have his own son killed because of his own failed creation of the world to his liking?

Start with the ideology of the time. Forgiveness of sins was dependent upon sacrifice, which is not so bad in good economic times. However, at the beginning of the first century, Israel was a conquered nation, and for most it was a time of Roman oppression and poverty. The exception: Some corrupt Jewish leaders who were making themselves wealthy in their dealings with the Romans. Enter Jesus at a time many Jews were between a rock (the Romans) and a hard place (their own corrupt leaders). Also recall that Temple revenue relied on the sacrificial offerings people brought in.

Enter Jesus with his compassion for those in poverty who were no longer able to afford to keep the law, let alone offer sacrifice for the forgiveness of these sins. Jesus began preaching, "Repentance (not sacrifice) for the forgiveness of sins." Jesus had many friends among the good people in the well-to-do class. However, he immediately made enemies among the corrupt leadership. They feared a decease in the much needed Temple revenue, and they also feared an uprising among the Jews which would result in their Roman masters removing them from power and wealth.

Their challenge right back to Jesus: Who are you to change our laws and customs, given to us by Moses from God? Jesus responded that he was the son of God, and that even Moses prophesied that God would send someone even greater than he (Moses). Jesus told them he was only speaking what God, Himself, willed for him to say.

Now let's talk Covenants. Whenever God made a Covenant with His people, a blood sacrifice (of an animal) was the seal of that covenant. Jesus was testifying that God intended that a new covenant (testament) be established between God and humans.

Jesus with his testimony was getting the leaders more and more riled up. They insisted he stop. They threatened him. But Jesus insisted that his message be heard, that this new covenant with God be recognized and accepted--that this was God's will that he carry out.

In the end, Jesus himself laid down his life as the blood sacrifice needed for people to recognize this new covenant between God and man. The fact that the Temple was destroyed less than forty years later gave additional credence for this new covenant of repentance instead of Temple sacrifice.

The idea that God sent his son to be punished for the sins of mankind was an idea that came from the so-called "Reformation." Jesus laid down his life so that we might be assured our sins are forgiven--not by his death, but by the Covenant of Repentance for the Forgiveness of Sins. We do what we can to repent (turn away from and make up for) the sins we have committed, and God will take care of that portion of that sin we are not able to fix ourselves. We are forgiven upon our repentance, which simply entails turning from sin and turning to God. Jesus gave his life that this message might become known to the ends of the earth and that by his blood it be truly recognized as God's New Covenant (Testament) with mankind.