Judge Bans Use Of “Illegal” and “Aliens”

[sky dancer]

If we take a simple word, like "ILLEGAL" and add it to another simple word, "ALIEN", it magically transmogrifies into an vile and hateful slur. Wether or not this word is insulting is just a matter of opinion, isn't it? Sky, you and this judge may agree, I doubt either of you have to deal with this issue other than as a abstraction... It doesn't make me a minion of the great Satan, John Tanton, either. We all get lumped together because..., tell me again, something about...Guilt by association. So, what guilt do you ascribe too? Do you hire them to clean your pool or is it some white guilt complex? Hmm. If we see the Buddha, we kill him. Yeah, right. Tanton isn't my spiritual guide, I just despise liars and frauds. That's it. Forgive me. Why you apologize for them, some of us would like to know. Why all this...ya know...defensiveness and rationalizations? I know plenty of legal immigrants too, mostly European and they had to follow all the protocols to get in. They got all their immunizations. That had to prove they weren't violent criminals or mentally ill. Trivia like that, and I don't think NAFTA lets these pecker heads from Latin America off the immigration hook. And I doubt you that you do, either. Or you could just live with them and see just how wonderful they really arnen't. But you wont do THAT either.

My dear friend,

Unfortunately, the immigration debate is fraught with numerous side issues. Nativism, is one. John Tanton is behind many anti-immigration organizations that are given mainstream legitimacy, and many people have never heard of him.

Some folks purposely use inflammatory rhetoric when discussing immigration--so it is not strange that people who feel the hatred could be tuned down a notch recommend using words that Latinos and Hispanics--especially those unfortunately lumped together and who are American citizens may find less offensive.

Hispanic Journalists, Hispanic lawyers--as the ones in Arizona--and Latino civil rights organizations all ask that the less offensive terms--undocumented immigrants or even illegal immigrants be used instead of 'illegals' and 'illegal aliens'. I don't consider that so much to ask for.

I have been studying the history of immigration law. It is worth taking a look at. What is happening with the Hispanic/Mexican immigrants is not different that how every other immigrant group has gone through. There were derogatory terms used about the Irish, the Japanese and Chinese, the Italians, the Germans. Every immigrant group has been through this and Americans have adjusted the terminology eventually.

We discuss politics and subjects like immigration law because the topics interest us. We don't always have the same interest in the topic and we often disagree.

I have been talking about immigration on numerous forums for about two years. While the term 'illegal alien' may not seem like a hateful slur to you=--I have seen it used hatefully on other forums.

If you pick a label--any label--and slap it on to someone you diminish that person's individual humanity.

Some argue that all 'illegal aliens' are by definition 'criminal'. That's wrong. Some are--some are drug smugglers, human traffickers, and not people we are happy to see come to our country. Others are poor, and they want to work, and current immigration policy isn't working. They come at great personal risk to themselves and many die en route. They come for the same reasons our ancestors came to America--seeking a better life--seeking opportunity.

All I'd like to see happen is people able to discuss immigration without resorting to stereotyping all immigrants--legal and otherwise--the same.

 

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

I don't know what to say here. This isn't a abstraction. I won't mock or condescend, I read , I learn and I live with these people, and they don't respect us our lofty ideals or intellect. To them, it's some sort of materialistic free-for all. I have actually hade these people in my home. I talk to them. They seem like children that can do anything when the parents look away, but a hell of a lot more serious. A lot is at stake here. These people you seem to adore are not fleeing political oppression or death squads or oppression. They are just petty opportunists. The people WE know that immigrate legally, they do so because they respect US, our culture, and that is a beautifully thing . Respect is a two way street.

 

[Ravi]

I don't know what to say here. This isn't a abstraction. I won't mock or condescend, I read , I learn and I live with these people, and they don't respect us our lofty ideals or intellect. To them, it's some sort of materialistic free-for all. I have actually hade these people in my home. I talk to them. They seem like children that can do anything when the parents look away, but a hell of a lot more serious. A lot is at stake here. These people you seem to adore are not fleeing political oppression or death squads or oppression. They are just petty opportunists. The people WE know that immigrate legally, they do so because they respect US, our culture, and that is a beautifully thing . Respect is a two way street.

Like children, huh, just like them darkies?

I'm curious, how did you know the immigration status of "these people" that you had in your home and why were they in your home?

 

[catzmeow]

Believe it or not, some people can welcome foreigners with open arms even though we pay taxes and have children in school.

You say we, when we both know that you don't do either of these things. So, basically, you expect OTHER PEOPLE to pay the cost of your values.

That's highly ethical.

 

[Zoom-boing]

If you pick a label--any label--and slap it on to someone you diminish that person's individual humanity.

So according to you we should stop calling criminals 'criminals', prostitutes 'prostitutes', Democrats 'Democrats', Republicans 'Republicans', etc. because 'any label diminishes that person's individual humanity'. Come again?

All I'd like to see happen is people able to discuss immigration without resorting to stereotyping all immigrants--legal and otherwise--the same.

Once again you are missing the point, or deliberately playing dumb. No one is 'stereotyping all immigrants'. We object to illegal aliens entering this country and living off of America like parasites. They come from poor situations, they want the American dream, they want a better life. But they come here illegally. Get it? Say it with me -- illegally. THAT is the point. And THOSE -- the illegals -- are who we are talking about.

 

[Againsheila]

Originally Posted by sky dancer: All I'd like to see happen is people able to discuss immigration without resorting to stereotyping all immigrants--legal and otherwise--the same.


<<<

You are the one trying to stereotype legal and illegal aliens as "immigrants". The rest of us want to call a spade a spade and an illegal alien, an illegal alien rather than an immigrant.

 

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

Like children, huh, just like them darkies?

I'm curious, how did you know the immigration status of "these people" that you had in your home and why were they in your home?

My, we are a little touchy, aren't we? I live in a barrio LONG before this flood of unwanted immigrants washed in. They turned it from a diverse community into an ethnic ghetto. It's the next best thing to going to Mexico without leaving the country. We all know that some of those nimrods aren't here legally. There are Millions of these people. They don't respect or recognize laws like immigration , or most other laws of the US, if they can get away with it. Sound Mature to YOU? They act just like kids, they are rude, selfish, insensitive, careless, reckless, thoughtless, illiterate (read: can't speak a lick of ENGLISH). That isn't a criticism. It is a fact. Just like them darkies? Skip the sarcasm, please. Let's just say that this issue is rife with ambiguity and contradictions, and leave it at that. These folks don't wear an armband declaring their status. And, we can't rely on them being honest enough to admit it, either. If they were HONEST, this wouldn't be an issue, now would it? Anyway, a relative of mine WAS married to an illegal alien, and this person and some of his family have come over to visit my home. Well, Long story short: divorce, deportation and he's right back here in the US and his status hasn't changed. So, it's a personal matter as well as a moral one for me. Have anymore sarcastic remarks for me, sweetheart?

 

[Cecilie1200]

What? You're saying the term alien isn't perjorative?

Only insofar as you consider breaking the law to be a bad thing.

There is nothing insulting about a factual statement as to someone's lawbreaking status. If I call someone an "inmate", and they are in fact residing in a correctional facility, have I insulted them merely because "inmate" is not a desirable thing to be?

 

[AllieBaba]

My, we are a little touchy, aren't we? I live in a barrio LONG before this flood of unwanted immigrants washed in. They turned it from a diverse community into an ethnic ghetto. It's the next best thing to going to Mexico without leaving the country. We all know that some of those nimrods aren't here legally. There are Millions of these people. They don't respect or recognize laws like immigration , or most other laws of the US, if they can get away with it. Sound Mature to YOU? They act just like kids, they are rude, selfish, insensitive, careless, reckless, thoughtless, illiterate (read: can't speak a lick of ENGLISH). That isn't a criticism. It is a fact. Just like them darkies? Skip the sarcasm, please. Let's just say that this issue is rife with ambiguity and contradictions, and leave it at that. These folks don't wear an armband declaring their status. And, we can't rely on them being honest enough to admit it, either. If they were HONEST, this wouldn't be an issue, now would it? Anyway, a relative of mine WAS married to an illegal alien, and this person and some of his family have come over to visit my home. Well, Long story short: divorce, deportation and he's right back here in the US and his status hasn't changed. So, it's a personal matter as well as a moral one for me. Have anymore sarcastic remarks for me, sweetheart?

You have to forgive Ravi. The only way she can give vent to her nazi tendencies is to spout racist gibberish...and attribute it to others.

Ignore her. That's what the rest of us do.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Believe it or not, some people can welcome foreigners with open arms even though we pay taxes and have children in school.

Alien and 'illegals' are terms that are being used negatively-- along with the terms; 'invaders', 'swarms', 'hordes', 'wetbacks' and 'anchor babies'.

Believe it or not, some people can welcome foreigners with open arms without encouraging them to break our laws or be disrespectful of our hospitality and generosity.

"Alien" and "illegal" are used negatively because they are negative things to be. If you don't want to be seen as an invading swarm, may I respectfully suggest that you not invade in swarms? And if you don't wish your child to be viewed as an anchor baby, may I respectfully suggest that you not come here eight months pregnant for the express purpose of having the baby here so that he will be a citizen? That sort of thing gives people the wrong impression.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Really? You've got a thing about my avatars.

I'm open to new ideas. We haven't considered open borders.

Does our current immigration policy work well? I don't think so.

Inasmuch as our current immigration policy involves throwing up our hands and saying, "It's hopeless", you're right. I don't think that actually indicates a need for even more of the same, though.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You say we, when we both know that you don't do either of these things. So, basically, you expect OTHER PEOPLE to pay the cost of your values.

That's highly ethical.

I like how the "open arms" Sky wants to welcome them with take the practical form of MY tax dollars and MY state institutions, while she sits thousands of miles away from the problem, loftily pontificating on her compassion and generosity.

Hope she doesn't sprain an arm, patting herself on the back for her humanitarianism.

 

[sky dancer]

I don't think a thirty foot fence around all borders makes sense either. Build a thirty foot fence and someone will build a thirty foot ladder.

 

[AllieBaba]

It is not racist to tell the truth. If somebody is in the country illegally, he's an illegal alien. I think it's about the most idiotic thing I've ever heard to claim that if you truthfully label a lawbreaker as a lawbreaker, it's "RACIST" if that criminal happens to be a different color, or "BIGOTED" if that person is of a different nationality.

Illegal alien isn't a racial term. It's a legal term. And if you are one, grow some balls and quit whining when people call you one.

 

[sky dancer]

I like how the "open arms" Sky wants to welcome them with take the practical form of MY tax dollars and MY state institutions, while she sits thousands of miles away from the problem, loftily pontificating on her compassion and generosity.

Hope she doesn't sprain an arm, patting herself on the back for her humanitarianism.

Excuse me. It's OUR tax dollars. Yours and mine. We all vote in America.

 

[Againsheila]

I don't think a thirty foot fence around all borders makes sense either. Build a thirty foot fence and someone will build a thirty foot ladder.

Yes, but it's going to take him longer to climb that ladder than to just walk across the border. Time in which to catch him or stop him. We need a wall, like the Great Wall in China. Just stand up there and when they put a ladder against it, just push it back down, and if you want to be really mean, wait until they're almost at the top.

 

[sky dancer]

Yes, but it's going to take him longer to climb that ladder than to just walk across the border. Time in which to catch him or stop him. We need a wall, like the Great Wall in China. Just stand up there and when they put a ladder against it, just push it back down, and if you want to be really mean, wait until they're almost at the top.

Sheila--

If it would work I'd be in favor of it. It won't work.

 

[catzmeow]

Excuse me. It's OUR tax dollars. Yours and mine. We all vote in America.

Yes, dear, but I actually PAY them. You know, me and the other people who work for a living.

 

[sky dancer]

Yes, dear, but I actually PAY them. You know, me and the other people who work for a living.

You are funny. What makes you think I don't pay taxes?

 

[catzmeow]

You are funny. What makes you think I don't pay taxes?

Do you work for a living, Sky Dancer?