Just one question:

[progressive hunter]

Yeah, I was "still employed by the same people" (at the same command) while I had them, but, if I wanted to be stupid or grossly negligent, I could have "misplaced" or "lost" some exam material. But, like I said, wasn't about to do that as I really liked my career and wanted to get at least 20 so I could retire. Mishandling or misplacing any of those exams (or any of the other documents I had to handle on a regular basis) wasn't in the cards, since I wasn't stupid enough to make mistakes and was VERY careful to follow all procedures required. I liked where I was at and what I was doing the second half of my career (we won't talk about what a soup sandwich I was for the first 4 years).

and biden wasnt still employed and so was in illegal possession of classified documents and gross negligence in the way they were stored,,

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Yeah, I was "still employed by the same people" (at the same command) while I had them, but, if I wanted to be stupid or grossly negligent, I could have "misplaced" or "lost" some exam material. But, like I said, wasn't about to do that as I really liked my career and wanted to get at least 20 so I could retire. Mishandling or misplacing any of those exams (or any of the other documents I had to handle on a regular basis) wasn't in the cards, since I wasn't stupid enough to make mistakes and was VERY careful to follow all procedures required. I liked where I was at and what I was doing the second half of my career (we won't talk about what a soup sandwich I was for the first 4 years).

Again, I understand the point Biden was granted the authority to have those documents when he was VP but he did not have the authority to keep them, and by what you wrote you would admit Biden didn't do as you did.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I was trying to explain this to another prior service member the last few days who is a Trump faithful. I witnessed a fellow Marine leave classified material on his desk and go to the head. By the time he got back he was in deep dodo. Lost a stripe, and went to the brig and was not allowed to reenlist. The other service member was telling me mishandled classified material might get one yelled at, but no real repercussions. There are simply two realities out there. I am no longer sure which one is real.

Mishandling classified information that is NOFORN or Confidential (depending on what it was) MIGHT just get an ass chewing, but doubtful.

The stuff I was working with? Nope. Navy Wide Advancement exams that AREN'T classified are bad enough (can lose a stripe at the minimum for mishandling), but classified exams (which I had to handle) or anything above Confidential (Secret and above) WILL get a stripe at the minimum, kicked out more than likely, and if the documents were sensitive enough (depending on what you did with them), a bit of time at Leavenworth to boot.

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Mishandling classified information that is NOFORN or Confidential (depending on what it was) MIGHT just get an ass chewing, but doubtful.

The stuff I was working with? Nope. Navy Wide Advancement exams that AREN'T classified are bad enough (can lose a stripe at the minimum for mishandling), but classified exams (which I had to handle) or anything above Confidential (Secret and above) WILL get a stripe at the minimum, kicked out more than likely, and if the documents were sensitive enough (depending on what you did with them), a bit of time at Leavenworth to boot.

So you would agree what Biden has done is a Prison offense and if not how can the DOJ go after Trump?

Next, those running the National Archives are also on trouble, and should be fired.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Again, I understand the point Biden was granted the authority to have those documents when he was VP but he did not have the authority to keep them, and by what you wrote you would admit Biden didn't do as you did.

Already said in post 56 that when Biden was finished with the work requiring the documents that he had no authority to keep them, as well as said that he was sloppy and mishandled the documents in question.

And, even though I kept Secret and above material in my possession during most of that tour, those documents didn't make me nearly as nervous as when I had exams in my safe. Always breathed a sigh of relief after I'd finished processing them and got them sent out, but that was short lived, as I knew I had to start the whole process over in about 4 months. And that went on for 2 years during that tour.

 

[ABikerSailor]

So you would agree what Biden has done is a Prison offense and if not how can the DOJ go after Trump?

Next, those running the National Archives are also on trouble, and should be fired.

Nope. Wouldn't agree that it's a prison offense, as I don't know what was in the documents and what kind of impact it would have if they had gotten out. There are lots of things that are classified that won't do much if they somehow got out, but there are a lot of things that would. Like I said, it depends on what was in the documents in question. Same thing for Trump.

And, you should also remember that classified documents quite often have a "shelf life", meaning the severity of mishandling them goes down over time. I'm guessing that if he was stupid enough to misplace them with his other stuff, they couldn't have been that important. Having exams in my safe ALWAYS made me a bit apprehensive until they were done and processed and sent off. Having Secret and above information in my safe didn't really bother me much one way or the other as it was mostly ships schedules and stuff like that (not much damage if leaked), but the exams were a whole different level of information that had to be protected.

 

[progressive hunter]

Nope. Wouldn't agree that it's a prison offense, as I don't know what was in the documents and what kind of impact it would have if they had gotten out. There are lots of things that are classified that won't do much if they somehow got out, but there are a lot of things that would. Like I said, it depends on what was in the documents in question. Same thing for Trump.

And, you should also remember that classified documents quite often have a "shelf life", meaning the severity of mishandling them goes down over time. I'm guessing that if he was stupid enough to misplace them with his other stuff, they couldn't have been that important. Having exams in my safe ALWAYS made me a bit apprehensive until they were done and processed and sent off. Having Secret and above information in my safe didn't really bother me much one way or the other as it was mostly ships schedules and stuff like that (not much damage if leaked), but the exams were a whole different level of information that had to be protected.

doesnt matter whats in the documents,, the crime is possession

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Nope. Wouldn't agree that it's a prison offense, as I don't know what was in the documents and what kind of impact it would have if they had gotten out. There are lots of things that are classified that won't do much if they somehow got out, but there are a lot of things that would. Like I said, it depends on what was in the documents in question. Same thing for Trump.

And, you should also remember that classified documents quite often have a "shelf life", meaning the severity of mishandling them goes down over time. I'm guessing that if he was stupid enough to misplace them with his other stuff, they couldn't have been that important. Having exams in my safe ALWAYS made me a bit apprehensive until they were done and processed and sent off. Having Secret and above information in my safe didn't really bother me much one way or the other as it was mostly ships schedules and stuff like that (not much damage if leaked), but the exams were a whole different level of information that had to be protected.

Already said in post 56 that when Biden was finished with the work requiring the documents that he had no authority to keep them, as well as said that he was sloppy and mishandled the documents in question.

And, even though I kept Secret and above material in my possession during most of that tour, those documents didn't make me nearly as nervous as when I had exams in my safe. Always breathed a sigh of relief after I'd finished processing them and got them sent out, but that was short lived, as I knew I had to start the whole process over in about 4 months. And that went on for 2 years during that tour.

The problem is the left is seeking Prison for Trump and his stupidity, and if they don’t seek the same for Biden then I hate to say it but the left is just helping Trump and his base.

Garland did the correct course of action by removing himself from the investigation and appointment someone else.

If I remember correctly the shelf life is from when a President declassifies the documents or seventy-five years but I could be mistaken on that part.

Biden's stupidity sunk the DOJ case against Trump and I am betting Garland isn’t happy.

 

[ABikerSailor]

doesnt matter whats in the documents,, the crime is possession

Actually, it kinda does. If you had found ship's schedules 4 years after I left the command in my moving boxes, yeah, I'd get a slap on the wrist and maybe lose a stripe (depending on the reason I had them, and the circumstances involved). However, if you found classified exam materials at the same time you found the ship's schedules, that would DEFINITELY result in loss of rank (maybe all the way down to E-1 and kicked out, especially if it had an impact on the exam results), but if it was exam information that was still classified because they were still using those procedures, definitely jail time.

 

[progressive hunter]

Actually, it kinda does. If you had found ship's schedules 4 years after I left the command in my moving boxes, yeah, I'd get a slap on the wrist and maybe lose a stripe (depending on the reason I had them, and the circumstances involved). However, if you found classified exam materials at the same time you found the ship's schedules, that would DEFINITELY result in loss of rank (maybe all the way down to E-1 and kicked out, especially if it had an impact on the exam results), but if it was exam information that was still classified because they were still using those procedures, definitely jail time.

you sure had to stretch a long ways to make that point,, still a fail,,

 

[mak2]

you sure had to stretch a long ways to make that point,, still a fail,,

Why is this a fail? I think he has done a very good job patiently explaining his points. Please explain.

 

[progressive hunter]

Why is this a fail? I think he has done a very good job patiently explaining his points. Please explain.

so far what youve thought has been laughable at best,,

 

[mak2]

so far what youve thought has been laughable at best,,

Ok, explain.

 

[ABikerSailor]

The problem is the left is seeking Prison for Trump and his stupidity, and if they don’t seek the same for Biden then I hate to say it but the left is just helping Trump and his base.

Garland did the correct course of action by removing himself from the investigation and appointment someone else.

If I remember correctly the shelf life is from when a President declassifies the documents or seventy-five years but I could be mistaken on that part.

Biden's stupidity sunk the DOJ case against Trump and I am betting Garland isn’t happy.

See post 69. Depends on the information contained in the documents and how old the information was. If the information found in Biden's possession hadn't been leaked, and it had already been superseded by new stuff and was no longer classified, probably just a slap on the wrist. If it was still current and still secret, throw him in jail.

Same for Trump. If the information had been superseded and replaced by newer stuff and was no longer classified, just a slap on the wrist and tell him he's a bad boy. If the information is still current and still classified, jail time.

Only problem in this scenario is that the documents found in Biden's possession are old, and probably no longer damaging. The stuff in Trump's possession could very well still be in effect and damaging to the security of this country since he left office just 2 years ago and was actually president (having access to everything, whereas Biden only had access to what he was allowed to have access to).

 

[progressive hunter]

Ok, explain.

nothing hes said is relevant to what biden did and youre just a fucking idiot,,

 

[progressive hunter]

See post 69. Depends on the information contained in the documents and how old the information was. If the information found in Biden's possession hadn't been leaked, and it had already been superseded by new stuff and was no longer classified, probably just a slap on the wrist. If it was still current and still secret, throw him in jail.

Same for Trump. If the information had been superseded and replaced by newer stuff and was no longer classified, just a slap on the wrist and tell him he's a bad boy. If the information is still current and still classified, jail time.

Only problem in this scenario is that the documents found in Biden's possession are old, and probably no longer damaging. The stuff in Trump's possession could very well still be in effect and damaging to the security of this country since he left office just 2 years ago and was actually president (having access to everything, whereas Biden only had access to what he was allowed to have access to).

the crime is possession not whats in it,,

nice try but still a fail,,

 

[mak2]

nothing hes said is relevant to what biden did and youre just a fucking idiot,,

Very intelligent, well thought out response. Really better and more thought provoking than I expected.

 

[Devils_Advocate]

See post 69. Depends on the information contained in the documents and how old the information was. If the information found in Biden's possession hadn't been leaked, and it had already been superseded by new stuff and was no longer classified, probably just a slap on the wrist. If it was still current and still secret, throw him in jail.

Same for Trump. If the information had been superseded and replaced by newer stuff and was no longer classified, just a slap on the wrist and tell him he's a bad boy. If the information is still current and still classified, jail time.

Only problem in this scenario is that the documents found in Biden's possession are old, and probably no longer damaging. The stuff in Trump's possession could very well still be in effect and damaging to the security of this country since he left office just 2 years ago and was actually president (having access to everything, whereas Biden only had access to what he was allowed to have access to).

Still, I am going to use Progressive argument about he knew it was illegal for him to keep the documents, so he broke the law.

Seeing Democrats would have impeached Trump over this then you would agree the same should be done to Biden?

Personally I believe the case against Trump is dropped when it come to the documents seeing Biden's stupidity has hurt the DOJ case.

 

[ABikerSailor]

you sure had to stretch a long ways to make that point,, still a fail,,

Wasn't a stretch at all. Different things have different classifications and different "shelf life". Ship's schedules are basically declassified as the ship makes various port visits as everyone knows when they were there (because they pulled in and let the crew go on liberty). Procedures for stuff on exams could still be current several years later, depending on what tech is replaced and what is kept.

Tom Clancy got a visit from the Secret Service when he wrote "Hunt for Red October" since he was so dead on as to how procedures are done on submarines. And he got his information from a lot of different sources that were declassified, but managed to put them together as to how they were actually done when he wrote his book. The US Navy had to change they way they did some things on subs because of his book.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Still, I am going to use Progressive argument about he knew it was illegal for him to keep the documents, so he broke the law.

Seeing Democrats would have impeached Trump over this then you would agree the same should be done to Biden?

Personally I believe the case against Trump is dropped when it come to the documents seeing Biden's stupidity has hurt the DOJ case.

Again, you would have to go over all the documents, see what was contained in each of them and determine what kind of threat each document was to our national security. Classified information isn't a "one size fits all" kind of thing.

Ship's schedules? Generally classified at confidential until the ship completes the schedule, because by then everyone knows where the ship visited since they let the crew off for liberty.

Information concerning procedures and other details for how various ratings do their jobs (which is part of the exams btw)? Classified until the procedures or details are changed or superseded by newer stuff, since some ratings are classified because of the various jobs they do.

Information I had when I was on active duty? Useless, since I've been retired for 20 years now. Information that a person currently on active duty has? Useful, since they are still in the loop.