Justice Roberts second guesses policy making decision on census, violates separation of powers

[Faun]

And still no answer to the question, how does adding a citizenship question help in terms of apportioning representation?

It distinguishes citizens from non-citizens as required by the Second Section of the 14th Amendment.

Why was it constitutional for Obama’s Census Bureau to ask “Is this person a citizen of the United States”, and un-constitutional for today’s Census Bureau to ask the very same question? Keep in mind that Section 2 of the 14th Amendment requires the distinction between citizens and non-citizens to be made with reference to apportionment.

It appears Justice Roberts believes he is vested with a power to strike down laws and policy making decisions that do not meet his personal sense of fairness, reasonableness and justice, which in fact is second guessing our Constitution which actually requires, by Section 2 of the 14th Amendment to make a distinction between citizens and non-citizens with reference to apportionment.

Justice Roberts, who also embraced our federal government entering the states and meddling with the people’s unalienable right to make their own medical choices and decisions, needs to be held accountable for his acts of sedition and personal war against our Constitution.

JWK

"The public welfare demands that constitutional cases must be decided according to the terms of the Constitution itself, and not according to judges’ views of fairness, reasonableness, or justice." – Justice Hugo L. Black ( U.S. Supreme Court Justice, 1886 - 1971) Source: Lecture, Columbia University, 1968

That doesn't answer the question since non-U.S. citizens are counted towards apportioning representatives.

 

[GreenAndBlue]

Wise people has a line in the sand to use to see who are the crooks

That issue is abortion

And that proves the democrats are the crooks

 

[basquebromance]

this is the most conservative SC in history. Thomas, Alito, Kavanaugh and Gorsuch are the most conservative justices ever. the problem is Roberts!

 

[Faun]

The ACS is not binding on redrawing districts, is not sent to everyone and is used as a test-bed for questions and methods. Who gives a shit? The actual census is key to the balance of power in this country and republicans are fucking with it and telling a bullshit story about why.

So, it was constitutional for Obama to ask the question but now it's not constitutional? Seems to me the Second Section of the 14th Amendment requires a distinction to be made between citizens and non-citizens.

JWK


The Democrat Party Leadership has been angry, stupid and obnoxious ever since the Republican Party Leadership freed democrat owned slaves. ___ Author unknown

So why doesn't president Trump get the information he wants from the ACS???

A correct census helps in many ways and an incorrect census harms in many ways and does not take much logic to understand this

The GDP scores will be faulty with incorrect counts

Health research and studies with patterns and the learning would be incorrect

Should be a world law that only citizens should be counted once and travelers could be counted many times

Justice Roberts has a severe problem of not wanting a nation and world to have prosperity

The question on the census will give you an inaccurate count..

Why do you want an inaccurate census count????

Tell us.

why do you not want to know how many who live here are legal or not?

tell us...wait....

nevermind. just keep on being a pimp for the left but everyone knows your hookers are diseased.

Explain how adding the citizenship question reveals the legal residency status of non-U.S. citizens?

 

[GreenAndBlue]

And still no answer to the question, how does adding a citizenship question help in terms of apportioning representation?

It distinguishes citizens from non-citizens as required by the Second Section of the 14th Amendment.

Why was it constitutional for Obama’s Census Bureau to ask “Is this person a citizen of the United States”, and un-constitutional for today’s Census Bureau to ask the very same question? Keep in mind that Section 2 of the 14th Amendment requires the distinction between citizens and non-citizens to be made with reference to apportionment.

It appears Justice Roberts believes he is vested with a power to strike down laws and policy making decisions that do not meet his personal sense of fairness, reasonableness and justice, which in fact is second guessing our Constitution which actually requires, by Section 2 of the 14th Amendment to make a distinction between citizens and non-citizens with reference to apportionment.

Justice Roberts, who also embraced our federal government entering the states and meddling with the people’s unalienable right to make their own medical choices and decisions, needs to be held accountable for his acts of sedition and personal war against our Constitution.

JWK

"The public welfare demands that constitutional cases must be decided according to the terms of the Constitution itself, and not according to judges’ views of fairness, reasonableness, or justice." – Justice Hugo L. Black ( U.S. Supreme Court Justice, 1886 - 1971) Source: Lecture, Columbia University, 1968

That doesn't answer the question since non-U.S. citizens are counted towards apportioning representatives.

If it does not affect apportioning then that proves crookedness ALSO in other parts of the system

But it proves that the left is the guilty crooks who tries to stop the apportioning

So all this proves how the left is so crooked they make statements that gets theirselves CAUGHT again

Citizens must be counted in order to help a nation progress in many ways

Anyone trying to stop this is a crook

Trying to stop the count on the Census OR trying to stop it by not counting it correctly is simply a crook

So both ways proves one is a crook trying to weaken America

The wise can see it's the liberals as the crooks

 

[GreenAndBlue]

So, it was constitutional for Obama to ask the question but now it's not constitutional? Seems to me the Second Section of the 14th Amendment requires a distinction to be made between citizens and non-citizens.

JWK


The Democrat Party Leadership has been angry, stupid and obnoxious ever since the Republican Party Leadership freed democrat owned slaves. ___ Author unknown

So why doesn't president Trump get the information he wants from the ACS???

A correct census helps in many ways and an incorrect census harms in many ways and does not take much logic to understand this

The GDP scores will be faulty with incorrect counts

Health research and studies with patterns and the learning would be incorrect

Should be a world law that only citizens should be counted once and travelers could be counted many times

Justice Roberts has a severe problem of not wanting a nation and world to have prosperity

The question on the census will give you an inaccurate count..

Why do you want an inaccurate census count????

Tell us.

why do you not want to know how many who live here are legal or not?

tell us...wait....

nevermind. just keep on being a pimp for the left but everyone knows your hookers are diseased.

Explain how adding the citizenship question reveals the legal residency status of non-U.S. citizens?

That statement is a foolish statement designed to fool by making it seem that is a legitimate question

The point is not the count of other nations citizens .. The census count is just for this nation and has no bearing on who the non citizens are or from

Just a foolish statement that has no bearing on this question of citizens on the census

We need to know correct data for many reasons in order to progress correctly

 

[wamose]

I guess we should have figured Roberts would turn out to be an incompetent, neocon idiot. He was appointed by one.

 

[Faun]

So why doesn't president Trump get the information he wants from the ACS???

A correct census helps in many ways and an incorrect census harms in many ways and does not take much logic to understand this

The GDP scores will be faulty with incorrect counts

Health research and studies with patterns and the learning would be incorrect

Should be a world law that only citizens should be counted once and travelers could be counted many times

Justice Roberts has a severe problem of not wanting a nation and world to have prosperity

The question on the census will give you an inaccurate count..

Why do you want an inaccurate census count????

Tell us.

why do you not want to know how many who live here are legal or not?

tell us...wait....

nevermind. just keep on being a pimp for the left but everyone knows your hookers are diseased.

Explain how adding the citizenship question reveals the legal residency status of non-U.S. citizens?

That statement is a foolish statement designed to fool by making it seem that is a legitimate question

The point is not the count of other nations citizens .. The census count is just for this nation and has no bearing on who the non citizens are or from

Just a foolish statement that has no bearing on this question of citizens on the census

We need to know correct data for many reasons in order to progress correctly

Bitch about that to the poster I queried since he was the one to complain about lack of concern for illegal aliens.

 

[Dragonlady]

Wise people has a line in the sand to use to see who are the crooks

That issue is abortion

And that proves the democrats are the crooks

Wise people don’t view abortion as the line in the sand. Wise people view the rights of others as the line in the sand.

If you would strip a woman’s right to decide whether to have a baby, and force her to give birth to a child she cannot care for, you would strip any right from anyone, if it wasn’t to your liking.

God gave women the ability to choose the right time to have a baby. You would strip her of that God-given right.

Such a person is a clear and present danger to all personal freedom.

 

[bendog]

Except that legislative power had nothing to do with anything here.

Uhhh. Yes. It does.

It is the Congress legislative power to determine if a census question on citizenship is legal. And POTUS's power to sign or veto it. Not the SCOTUS's.

only pRESIDENT DONALD T TRUMP DECIDES WHAT'S LEGAL, YOU SNIVILLING PANSY LIP WRISTED SNOWFLAKE

 

[busybee01]

Yes, Roberts' reasoning was stunningly absurd. He argued that the Trump administration had to provide proof that it duly and consistently reasoned and analyzed when reaching its decision to include the citizenship question on the census. But that is utter nonsense. The issue is whether or not the executive branch has the right to include a question about citizenship on the census, not how it made its decision to include the question.

Roberts' reasoning on the census question was right. The Trump Administration was trying to manipulate the results of the census to benefit Republicans. That is not in the Constitution. Where Roberts' reasoning was absurd was in the gerrymandering case.

 

[busybee01]

It appears with all the noise about the question “Is this person a citizen of the United States?” we are overlooking Justice Roberts has usurped legislative power by second guessing a legitimate policy making decision.

In regard to this assumption of power Justice Stone reminds us that:

”The power of courts to declare a statute unconstitutional is subject to two guiding principles of decision which ought never to be absent from judicial consciousness. One is that courts are concerned only with the power to enact statutes, not with their wisdom. The other is that while unconstitutional exercise of power by the executive and legislative branches of the government is subject to judicial restraint, the only check upon our own exercise of power is our own sense of self-restraint. For the removal of unwise laws from the statute books appeal lies, not to the courts, but to the ballot and to the processes of democratic government.” U.S. v. Butler, 297 U.S. 1, 78-79 (1936)


Additionally, the court in Hillis v. Department of Ecology, 131 Wash. 2d 373, 932 P.2d 139 (1997) pointed out:


”Just because we [the courts] do not think the legislators have acted wisely or responsibly does not give us the right to assume their duties or to substitute our judgment for theirs.”

And, in ELDRED et al. v. ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL (2003) the court unmistakably confirmed:

…..we are not at liberty to second-guess congressional determinations and policy judgments of this order, however debatable or arguably unwise they may be…The wisdom of Congress' action, however, is not within our province to second guess.



And finally, Justice Black, quite eloquently addressed the issue as follows:

"The public welfare demands that constitutional cases must be decided according to the terms of the Constitution itself, and not according to judges' views of fairness, reasonableness, or justice." – Justice Hugo L. Black (U.S. Supreme Court Justice, 1886 - 1971) Source: Lecture, Columbia University, 1968


The bottom line is, Justice Obamacare-Roberts has repeatedly violate the most fundamental cannons and principles of our constitutionally limited system of government and the fundamental rules of constitutional construction by interfering with a legitimate question being replaced on our census form . . . “Is this person a citizen of the United States?”

JWK

Without a Fifth Column Media and Yellow Journalism [ourMSM], the crisis at our southern border would never have grown to what now amounts to an outright invasion and threatens the general welfare of the United States.

Nonsense.

The decision has nothing to do with determining the constitutionality of an act of Congress.

.

Baloney. Congress delegated almost unlimited power to the Executive Office over the censes. Additionally, we are talking about a policy making decision, which is not within the courts assigned duty to second guess.

JWK

So by your standard, the courts should have kept segregation in place. Trump was trying to use the census in a corrupt manner to favor Republicans. The courts are the last line of defense against power grabs like this. The shame is that 4 so-called conservatives agreed with the corruption and Roberts' reasoning on the gerrymandering case where he said motivations don't matter.

 

[busybee01]

Republicans fucked themselves on this by using any excuse to justify the question and acting as if the idea of a deliberate under-count of the census never occurred to them. No one likes to be bullshitted to their face.

Once the court said the question was legal, that should have been the end of it. You don't have to give a justification to ask a perfectly legal question on the census.

.

The fact is, the Court is not "supporting this Constitution" when it subjugates the very intentions and beliefs under which our Constitution, and laws made in pursuance thereof, have been adopted.

And in the case of Justice Roberts, it is not within his job to second guess the wisdom or merits of asking, on our census form, "Is this person a citizen of the United States". His only job is to confirm if putting the question on the census form is within the powers assigned to our federal government.

JWK

The Democrat Leadership is correct! The border crisis has been manufactured. It has been manufactured by the Democrat Leadership in Congress refusing to protect our borders against an ongoing invasion.

The Court's job is to ensure that the Constitution is not corrupted. Intent does matter. The Republicans made it clear that their intent for the census question was to produce a undercount, The fact is that this shows the corruption of the so-called conservative judges that they support corruption. Roberts showed he is a part time supporter of corruption by siding with Republicans on gerrymandering.

 

[busybee01]

Republicans fucked themselves on this by using any excuse to justify the question and acting as if the idea of a deliberate under-count of the census never occurred to them. No one likes to be bullshitted to their face.

Nobody said anything never occurred to them.

The point you ignore is that it's a legitimate question.

No it isn't. It's designed to skew the results. The mission of the census is to be as accurate as possible and totally non-partisan. There is no way the question would yield an accurate result so why have it? The answer is obvious. Republicans want an under-count in immigrant communities for when districts are redrawn and when federal money gets spent.

Wait you admit blue states are welfare states?

No.

Actually it's the red states that are the welfare states that take more money than they contribute. Most red states heavily depend on the federal government to balance their state budgets. Red states don't properly tax their populations and businesses.

It's us blue states who are self sufficient and don't heavily depend on federal tax dollars to balance our state budgets.

Most & Least Federally Dependent States

Nope, that's a fucking lie.

You use worn out leftist bullshit to fabricate a tale that has no relationship to reality, Military bases are not welfare. Aerospace contracts are not welfare. Research grants to universities, well maybe those ARE welfare, but they sure aren't going to normals.

What IS welfare is the federal government supplying the state taxes to the Marxist states.

Prior to the 2018 Tax Reform, people in the America states were paying the taxes of the coastal elites who so bitterly hate them. That's right, people in New York didn't mind a 22% state income tax, after all, they deducted it from their federal taxes, so that folks in Montana could pay it for them.

UNTIL tax reform capped SALT deductions to $10,000

That is not true. Deduction of state taxes has nothing to do with what you pay in federal taxes. Even Mark Levin has called that argument ridiculous. One reason that red states pay more in federal taxes is because they generally have higher incomes than red states.

 

[busybee01]

Can't win them all but on this I can see his point. He was brought a bullshit question. The government claimed it was trying to protect the voting rights act but could not really say how when anyone with a TV knows about the administration's already constitutionally fraught war on illegal immigrants. They were treating the court like they are stupid. Even conservative judges do not like that.

If we don't have consistency in the courts we have no courts. The question is legal and no justification should be required. Once again the question applies to all non-citizens, not just illegals. And again you ignore the 14th Amendment. Run along hypocrite.

.

When the Courts ignore corruption, the people have no recourse. They are the last line of defense. When the courts have been corrupted as they have been by Trump the country has been corrupted.

 

[busybee01]

Roberts has been compromised

SHAME ON HIM

Roberts did his job properly and stopped executive overreach.

Trump lied to the Court. Shame on Trump for lying to the Court and trying to subvert democracy. And shame on you for supporting such abuses.

^^^

TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome)

manifests itself in so many ways....

like in you, Dragonlady.

TDS only strikes Trump supporters. It causes them to say stupid things to defend him.

 

[Care4all]

The ACS is not binding on redrawing districts, is not sent to everyone and is used as a test-bed for questions and methods. Who gives a shit? The actual census is key to the balance of power in this country and republicans are fucking with it and telling a bullshit story about why.

So, it was constitutional for Obama to ask the question but now it's not constitutional? Seems to me the Second Section of the 14th Amendment requires a distinction to be made between citizens and non-citizens.

JWK


The Democrat Party Leadership has been angry, stupid and obnoxious ever since the Republican Party Leadership freed democrat owned slaves. ___ Author unknown

So why doesn't president Trump get the information he wants from the ACS???

A correct census helps in many ways and an incorrect census harms in many ways and does not take much logic to understand this

The GDP scores will be faulty with incorrect counts

Health research and studies with patterns and the learning would be incorrect

Should be a world law that only citizens should be counted once and travelers could be counted many times

Justice Roberts has a severe problem of not wanting a nation and world to have prosperity

The question on the census will give you an inaccurate count..

Why do you want an inaccurate census count????

Tell us.

why do you not want to know how many who live here are legal or not?

tell us...wait....

nevermind. just keep on being a pimp for the left but everyone knows your hookers are diseased.

What

The ACS is not binding on redrawing districts, is not sent to everyone and is used as a test-bed for questions and methods. Who gives a shit? The actual census is key to the balance of power in this country and republicans are fucking with it and telling a bullshit story about why.

So, it was constitutional for Obama to ask the question but now it's not constitutional? Seems to me the Second Section of the 14th Amendment requires a distinction to be made between citizens and non-citizens.

JWK


The Democrat Party Leadership has been angry, stupid and obnoxious ever since the Republican Party Leadership freed democrat owned slaves. ___ Author unknown

So why doesn't president Trump get the information he wants from the ACS???

A correct census helps in many ways and an incorrect census harms in many ways and does not take much logic to understand this

The GDP scores will be faulty with incorrect counts

Health research and studies with patterns and the learning would be incorrect

Should be a world law that only citizens should be counted once and travelers could be counted many times

Justice Roberts has a severe problem of not wanting a nation and world to have prosperity

The question on the census will give you an inaccurate count..

Why do you want an inaccurate census count????

Tell us.

why do you not want to know how many who live here are legal or not?

tell us...wait....

nevermind. just keep on being a pimp for the left but everyone knows your hookers are diseased.

Is it not you, who is pimping for the 'right Trumpers' without no cause or purpose?

the Census question does not identify documented immigrants from undocumented immigrants from those on Refugee status....

So, ONCE AGAIN:

What is the purpose?

We already know what the purpose to do such was from the Republican operativer. Hofeller, who planned the question to be put on to the census... Hofeller's partner in crime friend went to work for and did work for Secretary Wilbur Ross as an advisor. The exact wording used by Ross to justify the question was in Hofeller's 2017 notes on his computer that his daughter found after he died, and she turned them over to shed light on them.

Court records show that Mr. Neuman, a decades-long friend of Mr. Hofeller’s, later became an informal adviser on census issues to Mr. Ross, the commerce secretary. By that summer, a top aide to Mr. Ross was pressing the Justice Department to say that it required detailed data from a census citizenship question to better enforce the Voting Rights Act.

It was to primarily disenfranchise the citizen Hispanic voter, (in Texas to start) thru computerized data gerrymandering drawn from the census...that would be used in the new redistricting maps that are to be drawn from the 2020 census.

History of Hofeller: Dead Republican operative’s electronic records at the core of two major legal battles




Opponents of the Trump administration's plan to include a citizenship question on the 2020 U.S. census say records found on a hard drive in Hofeller's home unmask partisan intent, including language nearly identical to the Justice Department's stated justification for the question: aiding enforcement of the Voting Rights Act. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled Thursday that the rationale seemed contrived and sent the case back to a lower court in New York.




Hofeller's records also prompted a new court filing in North Carolina’s redistricting litigation, suggesting that Republicans lied about how long drawing new maps would take.



In Republican political circles, Hofeller earned near-legendary status as a behind-the-scenes number cruncher who used voter and election data to draw maps he believed would comply with ever-changing redistricting rules over the decades — and help his party.



Through the Republican National Committee, the National Republican Congressional Committee and later a consulting firm, Hofeller said he had analyzed and drafted district plans in more than half the states. His resume included a role in more than 30 redistricting lawsuits, where he was usually defending a map that favored Republicans or finding fault with one that boosted Democrats.



In the late 2000s, he was involved in the so-called RedMap project, a full-throttled effort to win as many state legislative seats for the GOP in 2010 as possible. That class of lawmakers would control the formulation of new district boundaries for state and federal legislative seats, cementing GOP power for a decade.



The plan worked. As the tea party helped the GOP take control of the U.S. House of Representatives, the party also flipped control of 21 state legislative chambers. The resulting maps have helped keep the GOP in power even in some states where more votes are cast for Democrats.



"They were strategic in understanding the ramifications of redistricting. Tom understood that," said Tim Storey, a redistricting expert at the National Conference of State Legislatures (NCSL), who knew Hofeller for years. "There was no Tom Hofeller on the Democratic side."



The strategy weakened the political power of African Americans and Democrats, making Hofeller's work reviled among opponents who claimed it ran afoul of the Constitution.

And regarding this census, here was Hofeller's and the administration's purpose of under representing legal Hispanic voters and increasing the value of white citizen voters.

Deceased G.O.P. Strategist’s Hard Drives Reveal New Details on the Census Citizenship Question


The documents cited in the Thursday court filing include an unpublished August 2015 analysis by Mr. Hofeller, who was hired by The Washington Free Beacon, a conservative news outlet financially backed by Paul Singer, a billionaire New York hedge fund manager and major Republican donor. Mr. Hofeller’s charge was to assess the impact of drawing political maps that were not based on a state’s total population — the current practice virtually everywhere in the nation — but on a slice of that population: American citizens of voting age.

At the time, the study’s sponsor was considering whether to finance a lawsuit by conservative legal advocates that argued that counting voting-age citizens was not merely acceptable, but required by the Constitution.

Mr. Hofeller’s exhaustive analysis of Texas state legislative districts concluded that such maps “would be advantageous to Republicans and non-Hispanic whites,” and would dilute the political power of the state’s Hispanics.

The reason, he wrote, was that the maps would exclude traditionally Democratic Hispanics and their children from the population count. That would force Democratic districts to expand to meet the Constitution’s one person, one vote requirement. In turn, that would translate into fewer districts in traditionally Democratic areas, and a new opportunity for Republican mapmakers to create even stronger gerrymanders.

The strategy carried a fatal flaw, however: The detailed citizenship data that was needed to draw the maps did not exist. The only existing tally of voting-age citizens, Mr. Hofeller's study stated, came from a statistical sample of the population largely used by the Justice Department to verify that the 1965 Voting Rights Act was ensuring the voting rights of minority groups.

“Without a question on citizenship being included on the 2020 Decennial Census questionnaire,” Mr. Hofeller wrote, “the use of citizen voting age population is functionally unworkable.”

Roughly 16 months later, as President-elect Trump prepared to take office, Mr. Hofeller urged Mr. Trump’s transition team to consider adding a citizenship question to the census, the transition official responsible for census issues, Mark Neuman, said last year in a deposition in the Manhattan census lawsuit.

 

[busybee01]

The removal of the citizenship question amounts to election tampering more than any gerrymandering or Russian meddling ever did. Not only that, but the flood of illegals and phony refugees that it encourages is destroying our country. And the only reason we're allowing it is because Democrats are getting a big electoral advantage from this invasion. There's nothing compassionate or fair about it and it will certainly destroy our economy if it continues. If you want to talk about fairness, lets talk about citizens of this country who are having their votes unfairly negated by illegal alien voters. Lets talk about the depressed wages and higher taxes that result from illegals. If a state wants to allow slave labor, they shouldn't be rewarded with a higher rate of representation. And as a taxpayer, I sure as hell don't want to subsidize illegal aliens or any state that promotes them in any way. We have our own poor people who should be our first priority.

The addition of the census question was about politics. The GOP consultant who pushed for it admitted it was political. The reason why the Democrats are winning is because Republicans have alienated every minority. They have lost blacks, Hispanics, and Asians. They only have white, uneducated voters.

 

[GreenAndBlue]

Wise people has a line in the sand to use to see who are the crooks

That issue is abortion

And that proves the democrats are the crooks

Wise people don’t view abortion as the line in the sand. Wise people view the rights of others as the line in the sand.

If you would strip a woman’s right to decide whether to have a baby, and force her to give birth to a child she cannot care for, you would strip any right from anyone, if it wasn’t to your liking.

God gave women the ability to choose the right time to have a baby. You would strip her of that God-given right.

Such a person is a clear and present danger to all personal freedom.

Oh yes they do

Abortion is indeed the line in the sand that proves who are the most corrupt

Abortion has killed more Americans than all the wars combined

Abortion has brought the death sentence of this monster imbalance of young to old

Hitler killed less people

As mother Teresa said abortion is humanity's greatest sin ever


So always look at which side promotes abortion the most and always vote against them try to stop their voting in the destruction of the nation

Women's vote was given and the abortion issue is a test if they have the ability to vote and not elect crooks

The wise founders would not let women vote and now humanity has the results of all women voting

This will result in a high logic test for voting and science says at the high level of logic ability is only a few of the women with a lot more men that would pass

The abortion issue will result in bringing logic tests for voting

 

[busybee01]

this is the most conservative SC in history. Thomas, Alito, Kavanaugh and Gorsuch are the most conservative justices ever. the problem is Roberts!

It is also the most corrupt. Roberts is only corrupt part of the time. Roberts got it right on the census question but was corrupt on the gerrymandering issue.