Kavanaugh Asks if Texas Abortion Law Could Be Model for Bans on Gun Rights

[Rigby5]

abortion is a constitutional right?

Yes,
Anything that is not specifically allowed to be regulated by government is automatically a constitutional right, like privacy.
Constitutional rights are not enumerated because they are infinite and can't.
Constitutional rights are anything the government is not explicitly authorized to control.
They were not constitutional rights very clearly until the 14th amendment, and then it was specifically written that not only was the federal government restricted from infringing, but so were all levels of government.

 

[Rigby5]

Nowhere in the Constitution does it deny that these innocent human beings are what they clearly are. This denial comes from the exact same evil that once denied that blacks were fully human. The very same degenerate ideology is responsible for both. See also, “Untermenschen” in 1930s-1940s Germany. Or an of the other instance throughout history where one group denied the humanity of another, in order to excuse and justify horrific abuses against that other group. That, Incel Joe, is the side on which you stand.

Abortion is not about self sustaining people that some would like to attack as untermenschen.
This is about the fetus infringing on the rights of the woman.
And there the woman has to win.
Doesn't matter what the age of the fetus, infant, child, adult, is.
The woman's rights are supreme to be done with it if she wants.

 

[Rigby5]

That seems very dubious. Justifiable homicides are very few.

Justifiable homicides have nothing to do with it.
You do not have to kill people in order to deter crime by brandishing.
Do police always have to shoot and kill, or are they able to just arrest people by brandishing a firearm?

 

[Rigby5]

Yeah, funny thing, Afghanistan had a shitload of guns, has it brought them peace? Prosperity?

Do you really want to live like Afghan people do? I don't.



Sure they didn't...

View attachment 561443
YOu do realize why that was such a funny joke in the 1960's... it was all these Germans who claimed they had no idea what Hitler was doing.

Afghanistan is cold, rocky, mountainous, and poor.
But the guns in Afghanistan is not the cause of any of that, and obviously makes Afghanistan better than it would be.
If not for all the guns, then the British, Russians, and US would have enslaved them.
Peace is not prosperity if it is enslavement.

All countries used to be tyrannies.
That was because currency allowed for tyrants to be able to hired the mercenaries who wee strong and skilled with blade weapons.
We did not get democracies until firearms became the equalizer after about 1600 or so.
It was firearms that toppled every single evil monarchy.
If not for the general population getting firearms, the French Revolution, the American Revolution, the Russian Revolution, etc., would never have been possible.
We would still all have monarchies.
And if you disarm the general population, that is what it will return to, dictators.
We are almost there already.
We all know the War on Drugs, the invasion of Iraq, waterboarding, mandatory sentences, asset forfeiture, etc., are all totally illegal.
We all know eventually we are going to likely need another rebellion, on a regular basis, whether it is 100 years or 1000 years.

 

[Rigby5]

Actually, most history shows people are perfectly willing to go along with a bad government.

No Germans rushed out to save their Jewish neighbors from being turned into bars of soap and lampshades. They had guns, they just didn't want to get involved.

Wrong.
The Zionist traitors caused the anger against Jews in WWI, by collaborating with the British with the formula for synthetic acetone for cordite, and stealing the Zimmerman Letter from Berlin and giving it to the US.
Everyone in the world knows that is why the British made the Balfour Declaration, essentially giving Palestine that the British did not even own, to the Zionists.
Why else would the British have made the Balfour Declaration?
It was not because of all the Jews they hoped would enlist.

People are willing to go against bad government, once it gets bad enough.
The French, American, and Russian revolutions are prime examples.
Are you going to claim there armed rebellions were not necessary, not a good idea, or that they will never be needed to repeat in the future?
Seems to me, the half million we murdered in the illegal invasion of Iraq, proves we need another rebellion very badly in the US.
Do we still have people illegally held in Guantanamo?
Are we still illegally waterboarding?
How many illegal murders and crimes before one decides to act?
For me, Vietnam was enough.
If you were one of those illegally murdered by the government, I would bet you would be a little more pro-rebellion.

 

[JoeB131]

Afghanistan is cold, rocky, mountainous, and poor.
But the guns in Afghanistan is not the cause of any of that, and obviously makes Afghanistan better than it would be.
If not for all the guns, then the British, Russians, and US would have enslaved them.

Or they'd have functioning government that provides for its people... but again, dealing with a crazy person... can't really make that point.

Wrong.
The Zionist traitors caused the anger against Jews in WWI, by collaborating with the British with the formula for synthetic acetone for cordite, and stealing the Zimmerman Letter from Berlin and giving it to the US.
Everyone in the world knows that is why the British made the Balfour Declaration, essentially giving Palestine that the British did not even own, to the Zionists.

Oooohhhh.... you just went into crazy town, didn't you?

 

[Rigby5]

Or they'd have functioning government that provides for its people... but again, dealing with a crazy person... can't really make that point.



Oooohhhh.... you just went into crazy town, didn't you?

The Afghans did have a functioning government that provided for its people, the Taliban.
That is until we attacked and started murdering them.

Who is the crazy one?
The Germans do not have a history of abusing Jews like Poland, England, Russia, etc., did.
So then why do YOU think the Holocaust happened?
Are you trying to blame it on the German People?
You don't think the Zionists did anything to anger people?

 

[2aguy]

Politicians and a lot of Americans want to ban guns because we have 39,000 gun deaths, 70,000 gun injuries, 400,000 gun crimes...

And if you really think Afghanistan with 40 years of civil war is a model you want to emulate, where a gang of armed thugs can come in and behead your daughter because she was showing too much ankle, you have some real problems.



But most Germans were not. (ALso, if you were a GERMAN Jew, you had a 75% chance of getting out of Germany and surviving the war... Polish Jews, not so much.)

The point was, the Germans who kept their guns never once got out their houses, ran to their Jewish Neighbor's house and said, "You can't take Goldstein, he's my friend!!!"

You keep using that fake number......

gun suicide is that majority of gun deaths....23,941 in 2019.

Gun murder is primarily against criminals, murdered by criminals....70-80% of gun murder victims are criminals murdered by other criminals......

10,258 in 2019.......

The rest of the murder victims, the majority are friends, family and associates of the criminals....

Then you have the fact that cars kill more people each year than gun murders and gun suicides combined...

39,107

Then you have the fact that Americans use their legal guns to save far more lives.......about 176,000 every year saved by people using their legal guns...

Your numbers don't add up....

then you have this....

600 million guns in private hands......over 21.25 million Americans can carry guns legally in public for self defense.........



American use those legal guns 1.2 million times a year to stop rapes, stabbings, beatings, robberies, and murders, as well as also stopping mass public shootings when they are allowed to have their legal guns with them...



Gun deaths...the truth....



2019...



Gun murder...10,235



Gun accidents...486



Of the gun murder deaths....over 70-80% of the victims are not regular Americans....they are criminals...murdered by other criminals in primarily democrat party controlled cities....where the democrat party judges, prosecutors and politicians have released them over and over again no matter how many times they are arrested for felony, illegal gun possession and violent crimes with guns...that's on you and your political party...not normal gun owners.





Gun suicides... 23,491...





Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, robberies, beatings, knifings, murders......according to the Centers for Disease Control, and 1.5 million times according to the Department of Justice.



Lives saved....based on research? By law abiding gun owners using guns to stop criminals?



Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct





that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—



Money saved from people not being beaten, raped, murdered, robbed?.......





So figuring that the average DGU saves one half of a person’s life—as “gun violence” predominantly affects younger demographics—that gives us $3.465 million per half life.

Putting this all together, we find that the monetary benefit of guns (by way of DGUs) is roughly $1.02 trillion per year. That’s trillion. With a ‘T’.

I was going to go on and calculate the costs of incarceration ($50K/year) saved by people killing 1527 criminals annually, and then look at the lifetime cost to society of an average criminal (something in excess of $1 million). But all of that would be a drop in the bucket compared to the $1,000,000,000,000 ($1T) annual benefit of gun ownership.

When compared to the (inflation adjusted from 2002) $127.5 billion ‘cost’ of gun violence calculated by by our Ludwig-Cook buddies, guns save a little more than eight times what they “cost.”

Which, I might add, is completely irrelevant since “the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right — subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility.”

So even taking Motherboard’s own total and multiplying it by 100, the benefits to society of civilian gun ownership dwarf the associated costs.


Annual Defensive Gun Use Savings Dwarf Study's "Gun Violence" Costs - The Truth About Guns

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Hate to break it to you but in the 1840's and up 14 was a marriable age Many people married that young, As for Smith he had numerous wives he never slept with and he married everyone including 60 year olds.

Of course Incel Joe sees no meaningful distinction between a man having appropriate intimate relations with his lawfully-wedded wife, and a middle-aged predator drugging, raping, and sodomizing a 13-year-old girl without her consent. Remember, he's a pathetic incel in his late fifties, who has never been married, and has repeatedly expressed nothing but contempt for the very concept of marriage.

I'm not going to get into any detail, but there were some rather odd practices in the early days of the church, that involved “marriages” in which those supposedly “married” did not live together as man and wife, and did not engage in marital relations. Most of what Incel Joe claims about early church leaders “marrying” young girls are outright lies, but what basis there is for truth of any such claims is not what Incel Joe claims it is, and does not support his outrageous lies about them “fucking 14-year-old girls”.

 

[JoeB131]

Who is the crazy one?
The Germans do not have a history of abusing Jews like Poland, England, Russia, etc., did.

Of course they did. Anti-semitism is kind of built into the German Culture. Martin Luther, the father of the German Church, wrote a book called "The Jews and their Lies", 400 years before Hitler. German passion plays routinely blamed the Jews for Jesus' death up until recently. (Think Mel Gibson's religious snuff film but worse). The ground was fertilized long before Hitler got there.

So then why do YOU think the Holocaust happened?
Are you trying to blame it on the German People?
You don't think the Zionists did anything to anger people?

I think the Zionists anger a lot of people... but that wasn't the case here. The "Stabbed in the Back Myth was exactly that, a myth.

 

[JoeB131]

Of course @Incel Joe sees no meaningful distinction between a man having appropriate intimate relations with his lawfully-wedded wife, and a middle-aged predator drugging, raping, and sodomizing a 13-year-old girl without her consent. Remember, he's a pathetic incel in his late fifties, who has never been married, and has repeatedly expressed nothing but contempt for the very concept of marriage.

The other marriages Joseph Smith had weren't LAWFUL, Mormon Bob. Polygamy was against the law in 1840's America. the only "Lawful" wife smith had was his first one, Emma Hale.

So the other women he married to scam old ladies out of their money or bang some 14 year old, was hardly Lawful. It's why the people of my fine state killed smith and drove the creepy ass cult out.

A middle aged predator giving a girl drugs is bad. So is a middle aged predator pressuring his cult members to hand over their daughters... in fact... that actually sounds kind of worse.

I'm not going to get into any detail, but there were some rather odd practices in the early days of the church, that involved “marriages” in which those supposedly “married” did not live together as man and wife, and did not engage in marital relations.

Okay, a bunch of issues here. First, you really have no proof that Smith wasn't banging all of his wives. He probably wasn't banging the old ladies... but his relationship with Fanny Alger (Wife #2, 16 years old) was definitely sexual.

Fanny Alger - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Nevertheless, historian Lawrence Foster disputed Compton's assumption, arguing that although "contemporary evidence strongly suggests" that Smith and Alger engaged in sexual relations, the evidence does not indicate that the relationship was "viewed either by Smith himself or by his associates at the time as a 'marriage.'" Foster noted that before Smith's first documented plural marriage to Louisa Beaman in April 1841, Smith's "earlier sexual relationships may have been considered marriages, but we lack convincing contemporary evidence supporting such an interpretation."

Most of what @Incel Joe claims about early church leaders “marrying” young girls are outright lies, but what basis there is for truth of any such claims is not what @Incel Joe claims it is, and does not support his outrageous lies about them “fucking 14-year-old girls”.

Actually, it's not in dispute by anyone at all. Smith was fucking teenage girls.

Helen Mar Kimball - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Smith gave Helen 24 hours to respond to this request. The girl consented only after Smith explained to her that it would ensure her eternal salvation, along with that of her family. Helen was sealed to Smith in May 1843 when she was 14 and he was 37. The marriage was kept secret, and Helen continued to live with her parents (Anderson & Faulring 1998).

Initially, Helen despised the concept of polygamy, stating that, "seeing the trials of my mother, felt to rebel. I hated polygamy with my heart." Later in her life, however, she became a vigorous defender of the practice and wrote a number of publications praising it (Brodie 1971, pp. 479–480; Whitney 1884). With regard to her feelings about Smith's implementation of the practice, Kimball wrote,

It was a strange doctrine, and very dangerous too, to be introduced at such a time, when in the midst of the greatest trouble Joseph had ever encountered. The Missourians and Illinoisans were ready and determined to destroy him. They could but take his life, and that he considered a small thing when compared with the eternal punishment which he was doomed to suffer if he did not teach and obey this principle. No earthly inducement could be held forth to the women who entered this order. It was to be a life sacrifice for the sake of an everlasting glory and exaltation (Whitney & 1880-1883).

Sorry, man, Joseph Smith was fucking Teenage Girls....

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

Yeah, funny thing, Afghanistan had a shitload of guns, has it brought them peace? Prosperity?

Do you really want to live like Afghan people do? I don't.



Sure they didn't...

View attachment 561443
YOu do realize why that was such a funny joke in the 1960's... it was all these Germans who claimed they had no idea what Hitler was doing.

There are way more guns in the US than Afghanistan and we're nothing like Afghanistan. That wasn't the point, however. But, something you don't realize, not everyone is allowed to possess a gun in Afghanistan. If the Taliban doesn't want you to have a gun, they take your gun. So, banning guns has once again proved to be a bad idea.

Right. They didn't. Why do you think that none of the death camps (not to be confused with concentration camps) were located in Germany proper? So, yes, it's an historical fact that the average German had no idea of the extent of the Holocaust.

 

[Rigby5]

Of course they did. Anti-semitism is kind of built into the German Culture. Martin Luther, the father of the German Church, wrote a book called "The Jews and their Lies", 400 years before Hitler. German passion plays routinely blamed the Jews for Jesus' death up until recently. (Think Mel Gibson's religious snuff film but worse). The ground was fertilized long before Hitler got there.



I think the Zionists anger a lot of people... but that wasn't the case here. The "Stabbed in the Back Myth was exactly that, a myth.

Wrong.
The anti Jewish feelings were strong in all Christian countries, but Germany was the LEAST anti Jewish country in the world until WWI.
The Martin Luther book on Jewish lies is not fake, exaggerated, or based on bigotry.
The Old Testament is simply horrific and based on lies.
The Hebrew were horrific invaders of the Land of Canaan, such as the massacre of Canaanite women and children at Jericho, but Jews constantly try to spread the lies they were the natives, that they were the Chosen People, and the Land of Canaan was the Promised Land.
When the Romans brought the Jews back into power by using the Roman Herod, who pretended to convert to Judaism, then Jews tried to falsely claim they were always in power.

Whether or not the "stabbed in the back myth" was a myth or not, the point is German anger against Jews was not at all based on racism or bigotry.
But I do not believe it was a myth, because we know for certain that Chaim Weizmann gave the British the formula for synthetic acetone for cordite, and someone gave the US the Zimmerman Letter. Some people try to claim the US just intercepted and decoded it, but there were some syntax changes before being transmitted, and the US got the version from Berlin somehow. While no one knows for sure who stole it, the fact remains the British then release the Balfour Declaration, which made no sense otherwise. The British previously owed nothing to Zionists, and were always more hostile to them than the Germans were.

 

[JoeB131]

There are way more guns in the US than Afghanistan and we're nothing like Afghanistan. That wasn't the point, however. But, something you don't realize, not everyone is allowed to possess a gun in Afghanistan. If the Taliban doesn't want you to have a gun, they take your gun. So, banning guns has once again proved to be a bad idea.

Somehow, I don't think Afghanistan has an ATF. I realize you need to distract, but the argument you guys have is you need your gun to overthrow the government. Well, since 1973, the government of Afghanistan has been overthrown seven times... starting with the toppling of the last King. Only two of those were due to foreign invasions...

Right. They didn't. Why do you think that none of the death camps (not to be confused with concentration camps) were located in Germany proper? So, yes, it's an historical fact that the average German had no idea of the extent of the Holocaust.

The German people knew exactly what was going on, and they were fine with it... you don't massacre 12 million people and keep it a secret.

Wrong.
The anti Jewish feelings were strong in all Christian countries, but Germany was the LEAST anti Jewish country in the world until WWI.
The Martin Luther book on Jewish lies is not fake, exaggerated, or based on bigotry.
The Old Testament is simply horrific and based on lies.

Yes, Germany had a very small Jewish population because of centuries of oppression. of course, Yiddish is a corrupted form of German. it wasn't always that way.

I agree, the entire Bible is horrific and full of lies, (Although nowhere near the Book of Mormon) but Luther wasn't advocating throwing out the old testament.

 

[JoeB131]

Okay, this is a lot of weird conspriacy shit, and frankly, I don't know what to do with it, but here goes.

Whether or not the "stabbed in the back myth" was a myth or not, the point is German anger against Jews was not at all based on racism or bigotry.
But I do not believe it was a myth, because we know for certain that Chaim Weizmann gave the British the formula for synthetic acetone for cordite,

Okay, going off on this weird tangent that one Jew invented something once, the Stabbed in the Back Myth (Or in German, Dolchstoßlegende) had a lot more to do with the lies told by the German Military that they were really winning the war until the German Army was stabbed in the back by the November Revolution.

It was, of course, utter Bullshit. Germany was exhausted and starving at that point, the last major offensive had failed and Germany was simply out of time as American men and materials were flooding France. But like we saw after Vietnam, and we are starting to see now with Afghanistan, these kinds of lies are comforting.

and someone gave the US the Zimmerman Letter. Some people try to claim the US just intercepted and decoded it, but there were some syntax changes before being transmitted, and the US got the version from Berlin somehow.

Okay, but the point was, Zimmerman REALLY did try to encourage Mexico to go to war with the US. Germany was also resuming unrestricted submarine warfare on US Shipping after they promised they wouldn't. This is what nudged America away from neutrality and into the war, not "the Jews".

While no one knows for sure who stole it, the fact remains the British then release the Balfour Declaration, which made no sense otherwise. The British previously owed nothing to Zionists, and were always more hostile to them than the Germans were.

Actually, the Balfour Declaration made perfect sense in context.

First, after the February Revolution in Russia, keeping Russia in the war was a priority... and it was felt the Balfour declaration would keep the Jewish Revolutionaries in Russia in the war. It didn't work, the Bolsheviks then had their revolution in November and got Russia out of the war.

The British also saw resettlement of Jews in Palestine as a way to do colonialism by proxie. The British Empire had LONG been built on the concepts of playing tribes off against each other, especially in the Middle East and India.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

Somehow, I don't think Afghanistan has an ATF. I realize you need to distract, but the argument you guys have is you need your gun to overthrow the government. Well, since 1973, the government of Afghanistan has been overthrown seven times... starting with the toppling of the last King. Only two of those were due to foreign invasions...




The German people knew exactly what was going on, and they were fine with it... you don't massacre 12 million people and keep it a secret.



Yes, Germany had a very small Jewish population because of centuries of oppression. of course, Yiddish is a corrupted form of German. it wasn't always that way.

I agree, the entire Bible is horrific and full of lies, (Although nowhere near the Book of Mormon) but Luther wasn't advocating throwing out the old testament.

Do you think there is anything, law, government agency, etc that protects the rights of the people? Or, would you agree that the local warlords make up the rules as they go? There's no such thing as civil rights in Afghanistan. That's because the unarmed population is at the mercy of the tyrannical government.

 

[JoeB131]

Do you think there is anything, law, government agency, etc that protects the rights of the people? Or, would you agree that the local warlords make up the rules as they go? There's no such thing as civil rights in Afghanistan. That's because the unarmed population is at the mercy of the tyrannical government.

Not really. Afghanistan isn't a case of a dictatorship, it's a case of anarchy.

I doubt the current Taliban government is going to last more than a year... they are desperately begging the rest of the world for money because they can't provide services like an actual government does.

Then some other Mob will overthrow them.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

Not really. Afghanistan isn't a case of a dictatorship, it's a case of anarchy.

I doubt the current Taliban government is going to last more than a year... they are desperately begging the rest of the world for money because they can't provide services like an actual government does.

Then some other Mob will overthrow them.

Who controls Afghanistan? Is it the Taliban? They're not going anywhere.

 

[Borillar]

Justice Brett Kavanaugh floated the possibility of Texas's abortion law becoming a model for states to restrict other constitutional rights, such as gun rights under the Second Amendment.

The associate justice, appointed by former President Donald Trump, specifically posed a theoretical law that would allow the seller of an AR-15 semi-automatic weapon to be sued for $1 million.

The Texas solicitor general acknowledged the possibility but said Congress could pass laws to protect such rights. Kavanaugh seemed wary of such intervention.

"Some of those examples, I think, would be quite difficult to get legislation through Congress," Kavanaugh said.

Kavanaugh Poses Possibility That Texas Abortion Law Can Apply to Gun Rights

U.S. Solicitor General Elizabeth Prelogar told the Supreme Court Monday that "no constitutional right is safe" if the Texas law is allowed to stand.

www.newsweek.com

So you could use a Texas abortion style law to restrict guns in California? It gets around the Constitution.

I did not see this coming. Did you?

I think this is quite predictable. If a law can be used to do an end run around one Constitutional right, in this case the right to privacy, a law could be taylored to negate other rights.

 

[Rigby5]

Somehow, I don't think Afghanistan has an ATF. I realize you need to distract, but the argument you guys have is you need your gun to overthrow the government. Well, since 1973, the government of Afghanistan has been overthrown seven times... starting with the toppling of the last King. Only two of those were due to foreign invasions...




The German people knew exactly what was going on, and they were fine with it... you don't massacre 12 million people and keep it a secret.



Yes, Germany had a very small Jewish population because of centuries of oppression. of course, Yiddish is a corrupted form of German. it wasn't always that way.

I agree, the entire Bible is horrific and full of lies, (Although nowhere near the Book of Mormon) but Luther wasn't advocating throwing out the old testament.

Wrong.

Changing government by over throwing them is not at all a bad or evil tradition as you are implying.
It is just like the US elections every 4 years, and is not bad or evil.

Obviously everyone needs guns to overthrow evil corruption.
There are hardly any countries that did not become modern democracies by anything but violent revolution.
And there is still a very long way to go.
The US is still very corrupt, racist, lacking in egalitarian government, taxes, laws, legal representation, medical access, etc.
I personally think we are going to need at least 2 or 3 more revolutions, and only hesitate because of the risk of getting someone like Stalin instead of an improvement.

And absolute wrong about the German people. They most certainly did NOT know of the death camps.
They were hundreds of miles outside of Germany, in the east.
They were kept so secret, not a one has ever been seen.
They were all totally and completely destroyed before being over run.
The only camps ever found were work camps instead.
For example, Dachau and Auschwitz were NOT death camps.
Birkenau death camp was not far from Auschwitz, but they were not in sight of each other.
And since the work camps had hundreds of thousands of people, there is not way people could know how many had been killed.

And wrong, Germany did not have a small Jewish population, but millions of Jews, and there had NEVER been any oppression of Jews until AFTER WWI.
Yiddish is not a corrupted form of German, but the ancient form of Germanic languages the Scythians spoke in the Balkans, which is where the Ashkenazi came from.
They did not come from Germany, but came from Poland and Russia, where they were badly treated, and went to Germany due to better treatment there.

The Khazars are Scythians who did a mass conversion to Judaism around 800 AD.
{...
. The ruling elite of the Khazars was said by Judah Halevi and Abraham ibn Daud to have converted to Rabbinic Judaism in the 8th century,[18] but the scope of the conversion to Judaism within the Khazar Khanate remains uncertain.
...}

Khazars - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org