Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

[Ernie S.]

And so make them illegal and they can't get guns, right Joe? I mean a mass murderer wouldn't break gun laws, that would just be wrong.

Yes, we should make military grade weapons illegal for civilians to own. We should also make other guns difficult to acquire.

Hey Joe, where you going with that gun in your hand?

So you're back to your point wanting to keep guns out of hands of non-criminals to reduce crime. Did you ever come up with a plan to keep guns out of the hands of actual criminals?

Define "criminals". If you mean anyone convicted of a crime, DUI, petty theft, vandalism - in fact any misdemeanor or felony that might work. But is it rational or doable? And, in fact it might not go far enough. Consider those detained as a danger to themselves or others (civil commitments are not criminal) would need to have their Second Amendment Rights infringed (to also include those who spent one night in the drunk tank).

For a rational argument on gun control, we need to keep Kaz and other like him out of the discussion. Suffice it to say, Kaz and the other gun nuts seem to believe this, and only this: Guns are a basic right, any effort or even discussion on gun control needs to be met with one voice, one echo: "Our right cannot be infringed no matter how many innocent lives are taken!"

Here is a link to a vast resource for those who want to have the background to have a knowledgeable, honest and rational debate on guns & gun control.

Mass murder shooting sprees and rampage violence Research roundup Journalist s Resource Research for Reporting from Harvard Shorenstein Center

I do not expect Kaz or any of the willfully ignorant, and those who echo those words in red above to open and consider the link, or any of the vast number of studies annotated.

Your emotionalism is noted but irrelevant. The US Constitution guarantees my right to keep and bear arms. Being convicted of certain crimes can and should infringe that right, just like a DUI conviction will infringe your privilege to drive.

BUT, infringing on my rights because gangbangers in Chicago are killing each other is as stupid as removing your privilege to drive because some idiot in South Bend got drunk and plowed into a bunch of kids at a school bus stop.

 

[2aguy]

The committee found that answers to some of the most pressing questions cannot be addressed with existing data and research methods, however well designed. For example, despite a large body of research, the committee found no credible evidence that the passage of right-to-carry laws decreases or increases violent crime, and there is almost no empirical evidence that the more than 80 prevention programs focused on gun-related violence have had any effect on children’s behavior, knowledge, attitudes or beliefs about firearms. The committee found that the data available on these questions are too weak to support unambiguous conclusions or strong policy statements.”

-

From your own source.........

 

[Lakhota]

Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

Plan? Somewhat like speed limits. Can't catch 'em all - but it helps.

 

[2aguy]

The most effective plan is long jail sentences for gun crimes....but for some reason the democrats object to this....it is one reason Japanese organized criminals don't carry guns.....they are afraid of long jail sentences....

stop and frisk use to keep gun crime down in New York....the thugs didn't want to carry cause they knew they would be stopped and frisked...and arrested....but that is over now....so expect their murder rate to go up.....

 

[Ernie S.]

What's that, redskin? is 1,440 ft/sec too fast?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Your source is crap....more anti self defense crap.....

Let me guess...background checks, gun registration......magazine limits.....those are your solutions...right? You know....crap that will not work to stop actual violence....but it sure will harrass the people you don't like...gun owners.....

I'm a gun owner, I like myself. I have no problem with obtaining a license to own, possess or have in my custody and control a gun, if my State had the authority to pass such a law.

By the way, I stand by my other statement that you're a liar and still wonder if you ignorance is willful or otherwise. I do suspect otherwise.

 

[2aguy]

And you are a dumb fuck....is that willful or congenital......coward....

your source, which I quoted from is crap......you don't like that so you call me a liar....hence you are a dumb fuck.....

 

[kaz]

For a rational argument on gun control, we need to keep Kaz and other like him out of the discussion. Suffice it to say, Kaz and the other gun nuts seem to believe this, and only this: Guns are a basic right, any effort or even discussion on gun control needs to be met with one voice, one echo: "Our right cannot be infringed no matter how many innocent lives are taken!"

Dude, it always amazes me how liberals don't grasp how our system operates. Right can be removes only with ... wait for it ... due process of law. Life liberty and property can be removed with due process of law. Voting can be removed with due process of law. The right to own a gun can be removed with due process of law. How do you not know that?

As for the rest of your post, it's a logical fallacy called begging the question. My question is how laws that only keep guns away from people who follow the law are going to protect anyone. Assuming the laws will work which is my challenge for you to show doesn't answer that.

 

[kaz]

And so make them illegal and they can't get guns, right Joe? I mean a mass murderer wouldn't break gun laws, that would just be wrong.

Yes, we should make military grade weapons illegal for civilians to own. We should also make other guns difficult to acquire.

Hey Joe, where you going with that gun in your hand?

So you're back to your point wanting to keep guns out of hands of non-criminals to reduce crime. Did you ever come up with a plan to keep guns out of the hands of actual criminals?

Define "criminals". If you mean anyone convicted of a crime, DUI, petty theft, vandalism - in fact any misdemeanor or felony that might work. But is it rational or doable? And, in fact it might not go far enough. Consider those detained as a danger to themselves or others (civil commitments are not criminal) would need to have their Second Amendment Rights infringed (to also include those who spent one night in the drunk tank).

For a rational argument on gun control, we need to keep Kaz and other like him out of the discussion. Suffice it to say, Kaz and the other gun nuts seem to believe this, and only this: Guns are a basic right, any effort or even discussion on gun control needs to be met with one voice, one echo: "Our right cannot be infringed no matter how many innocent lives are taken!"

Here is a link to a vast resource for those who want to have the background to have a knowledgeable, honest and rational debate on guns & gun control.

Mass murder shooting sprees and rampage violence Research roundup Journalist s Resource Research for Reporting from Harvard Shorenstein Center

I do not expect Kaz or any of the willfully ignorant, and those who echo those words in red above to open and consider the link, or any of the vast number of studies annotated.

Yeah....looked thru the source.....not helpful......

You proved one thing, you're a liar.

Now I have one question needing an answer, is your ignorance willful, or is it congenital?

Maybe you could be more specific?

 

[kaz]

Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

Plan? Somewhat like speed limits. Can't catch 'em all - but it helps.

Does it? It helps murderers to ensure no one is shooting back. You know, like the Washington Navy Yard where the military guy who knew there would be no guns went there and took out the only guy who he knew had one first then fired at people he knew were unarmed thanks to Slick Willy.

Why do shooters keep going to gun free zones? Virginia Tech, Colombine, Newtown, Aurora, malls, why is that? Coincidence?

Maybe you think you are safer when government ensures you are unarmed without doing anything about the criminals being unarmed, but, we already know that logic isn't your ... um ... forte ...

 

[kaz]

Your source is crap....more anti self defense crap.....

Let me guess...background checks, gun registration......magazine limits.....those are your solutions...right? You know....crap that will not work to stop actual violence....but it sure will harrass the people you don't like...gun owners.....

I'm a gun owner, I like myself. I have no problem with obtaining a license to own, possess or have in my custody and control a gun, if my State had the authority to pass such a law.

By the way, I stand by my other statement that you're a liar and still wonder if you ignorance is willful or otherwise. I do suspect otherwise.

Amazing how every anti-gun liberal is a gun owner

 

[Wry Catcher]

And so make them illegal and they can't get guns, right Joe? I mean a mass murderer wouldn't break gun laws, that would just be wrong.

Yes, we should make military grade weapons illegal for civilians to own. We should also make other guns difficult to acquire.

Hey Joe, where you going with that gun in your hand?

So you're back to your point wanting to keep guns out of hands of non-criminals to reduce crime. Did you ever come up with a plan to keep guns out of the hands of actual criminals?

Define "criminals". If you mean anyone convicted of a crime, DUI, petty theft, vandalism - in fact any misdemeanor or felony that might work. But is it rational or doable? And, in fact it might not go far enough. Consider those detained as a danger to themselves or others (civil commitments are not criminal) would need to have their Second Amendment Rights infringed (to also include those who spent one night in the drunk tank).

For a rational argument on gun control, we need to keep Kaz and other like him out of the discussion. Suffice it to say, Kaz and the other gun nuts seem to believe this, and only this: Guns are a basic right, any effort or even discussion on gun control needs to be met with one voice, one echo: "Our right cannot be infringed no matter how many innocent lives are taken!"

Here is a link to a vast resource for those who want to have the background to have a knowledgeable, honest and rational debate on guns & gun control.

Mass murder shooting sprees and rampage violence Research roundup Journalist s Resource Research for Reporting from Harvard Shorenstein Center

I do not expect Kaz or any of the willfully ignorant, and those who echo those words in red above to open and consider the link, or any of the vast number of studies annotated.

Your emotionalism is noted but irrelevant. The US Constitution guarantees my right to keep and bear arms. Being convicted of certain crimes can and should infringe that right, just like a DUI conviction will infringe your privilege to drive.

BUT, infringing on my rights because gangbangers in Chicago are killing each other is as stupid as removing your privilege to drive because some idiot in South Bend got drunk and plowed into a bunch of kids at a school bus stop.

LOL, you need to make a rational argument. I made no mention of gangbangers or removing everyone's DL because of the actions of others.

Consider (once again, lol, of course you won't) a middle aged man with no criminal record, who keeps a handgun for protection and one day kills his wife 'cause she burned his toast.

Stuff like that happens, most time there is no warning and thus there is no prior reason to infringe on his Second Amendment Privilege (since you acknowledged being convicted of certain crimes can and should infringe, it must be a privilege).

But comprehensive background checks, done when someone applies for a license to own, possess or ever have in his or her custody and control gun, along with a flash notice suspending such a license whenever the licensee has been arrested or detained civilly, seems a reasonable effort to reduce gun violence.

I don't care what you keep in your home (within reason, no meth labs or fragmentation grenades, for example) or do in your bedroom; I am concerned when assholes, psychotics and others who may have a background making their ownership of a gun problematic, take guns into malls, cars, schools and movie theaters intent on doing harm.

 

[Lakhota]

Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

Plan? Somewhat like speed limits. Can't catch 'em all - but it helps.

Does it? It helps murderers to ensure no one is shooting back. You know, like the Washington Navy Yard where the military guy who knew there would be no guns went there and took out the only guy who he knew had one first then fired at people he knew were unarmed thanks to Slick Willy.

Why do shooters keep going to gun free zones? Virginia Tech, Colombine, Newtown, Aurora, malls, why is that? Coincidence?

Maybe you think you are safer when government ensures you are unarmed without doing anything about the criminals being unarmed, but, we already know that logic isn't your ... um ... forte ...

Dimwit, who said anything about disarming the populace? Do speed limits and associated enforcements prevent legal driving? No, they don't. They just help make the highways safer for all of us.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Your source is crap....more anti self defense crap.....

Let me guess...background checks, gun registration......magazine limits.....those are your solutions...right? You know....crap that will not work to stop actual violence....but it sure will harrass the people you don't like...gun owners.....

I'm a gun owner, I like myself. I have no problem with obtaining a license to own, possess or have in my custody and control a gun, if my State had the authority to pass such a law.

By the way, I stand by my other statement that you're a liar and still wonder if you ignorance is willful or otherwise. I do suspect otherwise.

Amazing how every anti-gun liberal is a gun owner

As you may know I'm retired LE, trained and vetted psychologically.

 

[2aguy]

And so make them illegal and they can't get guns, right Joe? I mean a mass murderer wouldn't break gun laws, that would just be wrong.

Yes, we should make military grade weapons illegal for civilians to own. We should also make other guns difficult to acquire.

Hey Joe, where you going with that gun in your hand?

So you're back to your point wanting to keep guns out of hands of non-criminals to reduce crime. Did you ever come up with a plan to keep guns out of the hands of actual criminals?

Define "criminals". If you mean anyone convicted of a crime, DUI, petty theft, vandalism - in fact any misdemeanor or felony that might work. But is it rational or doable? And, in fact it might not go far enough. Consider those detained as a danger to themselves or others (civil commitments are not criminal) would need to have their Second Amendment Rights infringed (to also include those who spent one night in the drunk tank).

For a rational argument on gun control, we need to keep Kaz and other like him out of the discussion. Suffice it to say, Kaz and the other gun nuts seem to believe this, and only this: Guns are a basic right, any effort or even discussion on gun control needs to be met with one voice, one echo: "Our right cannot be infringed no matter how many innocent lives are taken!"

Here is a link to a vast resource for those who want to have the background to have a knowledgeable, honest and rational debate on guns & gun control.

Mass murder shooting sprees and rampage violence Research roundup Journalist s Resource Research for Reporting from Harvard Shorenstein Center

I do not expect Kaz or any of the willfully ignorant, and those who echo those words in red above to open and consider the link, or any of the vast number of studies annotated.

Your emotionalism is noted but irrelevant. The US Constitution guarantees my right to keep and bear arms. Being convicted of certain crimes can and should infringe that right, just like a DUI conviction will infringe your privilege to drive.

BUT, infringing on my rights because gangbangers in Chicago are killing each other is as stupid as removing your privilege to drive because some idiot in South Bend got drunk and plowed into a bunch of kids at a school bus stop.

LOL, you need to make a rational argument. I made no mention of gangbangers or removing everyone's DL because of the actions of others.

Consider (once again, lol, of course you won't) a middle aged man with no criminal record, who keeps a handgun for protection and one day kills his wife 'cause she burned his toast.

Stuff like that happens, most time there is no warning and thus there is no prior reason to infringe on his Second Amendment Privilege (since you acknowledged being convicted of certain crimes can and should infringe, it must be a privilege).

But comprehensive background checks, done when someone applies for a license to own, possess or ever have in his or her custody and control gun, along with a flash notice suspending such a license whenever the licensee has been arrested or detained civilly, seems a reasonable effort to reduce gun violence.

I don't care what you keep in your home (within reason, no meth labs or fragmentation grenades, for example) or do in your bedroom; I am concerned when assholes, psychotics and others who may have a background making their ownership of a gun problematic, take guns into malls, cars, schools and movie theaters intent on doing harm.

See, you just don't do the research.....in homes where there is a domestic violence death there have been several visits by law enforcement, there is drug and alcohol abuse, and a long history of violence before the death....people just don't snap over toast one day........that is the fear of people part of the anti gun agenda...they fear people, they think people are too emotional and out of control....but they can't control people, not really, especially criminals....but they can try to control guns.....so they do what they have to to control their irrational fear of people....by being irrationally afraid of guns...

But comprehensive background checks, done when someone applies for a license to own, possess or ever have in his or her custody and control gun, along with a flash notice suspending such a license whenever the licensee has been arrested or detained civilly, seems a reasonable effort to reduce gun violence.

There is no way this stops or even reduces the murder rate......how does this work if the guy has a gun......of course as is the reality today...more false postitives against law abiding citizens will pop up than against real threats...as is already happening.....

And explain the glory of this system to the women stabbed to death, or beaten to death or who are set on fire with $2.00 worth of gasoline...or the woman who was killed with the $9.00 hatchet in Wisconsin....

 

[2aguy]

Okay Wry Catcher....your other anti gun nut fellow travelers haven't answered this question....maybe you will....

A woman was killed at the Chicago Nordstrom store....her ex boyfreind was stalking her for a year, broke some of her ribs and put a gun in her mouth as well as calling and threatening her and her family over the course of this year....

The police could not help her...the courts would not give her a restraining order....which wouldn't have stopped the attack anyway....

He walked into her job...at a gun free zone...Nordstroms...and shot her twice, killing her...

Okay, Wry Catcher....how do you help keep this woman alive...bearing in mind the other Illinois woman killed by her husband with a $9.00 hatchet in Wisconsin where she was hiding from him....

 

[2aguy]

Your source is crap....more anti self defense crap.....

Let me guess...background checks, gun registration......magazine limits.....those are your solutions...right? You know....crap that will not work to stop actual violence....but it sure will harrass the people you don't like...gun owners.....

I'm a gun owner, I like myself. I have no problem with obtaining a license to own, possess or have in my custody and control a gun, if my State had the authority to pass such a law.

By the way, I stand by my other statement that you're a liar and still wonder if you ignorance is willful or otherwise. I do suspect otherwise.

Amazing how every anti-gun liberal is a gun owner

As you may know I'm retired LE, trained and vetted psychologically.

Oh.....so according to the democrats you like to just walk up and kill minorities.....do you vote democrat?

 

[2aguy]

Wry Catcher...I see you are still online...please be brave and unlike your anti gun nut comrades...answer the question.....

 

[Wry Catcher]

The committee found that answers to some of the most pressing questions cannot be addressed with existing data and research methods, however well designed. For example, despite a large body of research, the committee found no credible evidence that the passage of right-to-carry laws decreases or increases violent crime, and there is almost no empirical evidence that the more than 80 prevention programs focused on gun-related violence have had any effect on children’s behavior, knowledge, attitudes or beliefs about firearms. The committee found that the data available on these questions are too weak to support unambiguous conclusions or strong policy statements.”

-

From your own source.........

Wow, you're really are not very bright. Did the first plane fly, did many attempts result in failures, on the ground or in the air? Variables, dependent and independent need to be factored in, in any rational discussion.

Your responses proves the NRA effort to safely train is a failure too: " there is almost no empirical evidence that the more than 80 prevention programs focused on gun-related violence have had any effect on children’s behavior, knowledge, attitudes or beliefs about firearms."

I haven't argued that a panacea exists, though we now an epidemic exists in our country which is not a world wide pandemic. We need to have a knowledgeable, informed, rational discussion on the issue of guns and their control. That won't happen with someone like you or kaz or the others who refuse to admit what exists today needs improvement.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Wry Catcher...I see you are still online...please be brave and unlike your anti gun nut comrades...answer the question.....

Ask the question, and I will respond.