Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

[2aguy]

and make a firearm about as useful as a wet noodle for self defense.

The law provides paranoids to carry a loaded weapon within their home. So it is legal to get up, put on your slippers and gun belt and have a nice day.

Most people have to leave home to work, shop, care for others or go to school. They need the ability protect themselves everywhere.

Guns & Ammo are not the problem, nutjobs are. Since neither party will allow a publicized list of nutjobs but democrats love to publicize gun owners list, nothing will change.

We need a registered nutjob list just like the registered sex offender list that can be accessed by smartphone so any citizen can make sure the person they know has a gun is competent & allowed to have it. This would have prevented Sandy Hook school shooting & many others.

The tyranny of the majority is your solution to gun violence in America. I hate to use the term, but methinks such a plan would have appealed to Hermann Goring - putting a tracking bracelet on all mentally ill is squarely in the realm of Statists.

Why does someone need to take a gun wherever they go? At this moment there are hundreds of thousands of people walking the streets of San Francisco, New York and Dallas. How many will need a gun today (2aguy believes 5,400 + unsworn citizens will use a gun for self defense today and everyday in the US this year).

"tyranny of the majority" 5% is not "tyranny of the majority" you frigging idiot.

No gun control can work unless citizens know who is not supposed to have them. Adam Lanza was not supposed to have a gun. How in the hell was people at the shooting range, neighbors, friends, family & others supposed to know he was not supposed to be practicing with, carrying or have access to guns.

Why was Adam Lanza not supposed to have a gun? As far as I know there was nothing in his record that would have prohibited him from buying one legally.
That is true for most of the notorious shooters, like the one in Aurora: they bought guns legally. No background check in the world would have made them prohibited.

You know...I was thinking that myself.

All of the mass shooters either passed all the gun control laws, background checks, magazine limits, gun purchase limits per month......or they avoided them altogether, like the kids at columbine..........

They like to point to mass shootings because they can drag the dead in front of cameras......and because the press will not ask how their gun control laws did nothing to stop the shooter.

 

[2aguy]

Most people have to leave home to work, shop, care for others or go to school. They need the ability protect themselves everywhere.

Guns & Ammo are not the problem, nutjobs are. Since neither party will allow a publicized list of nutjobs but democrats love to publicize gun owners list, nothing will change.

We need a registered nutjob list just like the registered sex offender list that can be accessed by smartphone so any citizen can make sure the person they know has a gun is competent & allowed to have it. This would have prevented Sandy Hook school shooting & many others.

The tyranny of the majority is your solution to gun violence in America. I hate to use the term, but methinks such a plan would have appealed to Hermann Goring - putting a tracking bracelet on all mentally ill is squarely in the realm of Statists.

Why does someone need to take a gun wherever they go? At this moment there are hundreds of thousands of people walking the streets of San Francisco, New York and Dallas. How many will need a gun today (2aguy believes 5,400 + unsworn citizens will use a gun for self defense today and everyday in the US this year).

"tyranny of the majority" 5% is not "tyranny of the majority" you frigging idiot.

No gun control can work unless citizens know who is not supposed to have them. Adam Lanza was not supposed to have a gun. How in the hell was people at the shooting range, neighbors, friends, family & others supposed to know he was not supposed to be practicing with, carrying or have access to guns.

It amazes me that so many of the gun lovers need to call anyone who disagrees with them and supports efforts to mitigate gun violence idiots. Even some one who failed to graduate from high school must know such a response is at best childish.

BTW, there is a link attached to my post #4203. If you have the ability to read and comprehend, and then offer a thoughtful rebuttal to the link, you will become the only gun lover to respond as an educated, non hysterical adult on this thread.

People call you an idiot probably because your posts indicate you are. You insist on a 100% standard for pro gun solutions but excuse yourself from that standard yourself. When faced with counterarguments you simply name call or deflect. You post links that refute your own points. And you consistently fail to address the question of this thread: what is your solution to criminals with guns? Your solutions seem to be aimed at law abiding citizens with guns, not at criminals.

Threads move past the OP all the time, and I have address the question in the OP several times. It is a loaded question, that you won't or can't understand.

That you can't refute it is on you. That you don't know what a loaded question is, and I've defined it several times, is enough evidence for me to conclude you are either dishonest or willfully ignorant.

You haven't addressed it at all. Each one of your points has been shown to be useless to achieve the thing you say you want......

 

[The Rabbi]

The tyranny of the majority is your solution to gun violence in America. I hate to use the term, but methinks such a plan would have appealed to Hermann Goring - putting a tracking bracelet on all mentally ill is squarely in the realm of Statists.

Why does someone need to take a gun wherever they go? At this moment there are hundreds of thousands of people walking the streets of San Francisco, New York and Dallas. How many will need a gun today (2aguy believes 5,400 + unsworn citizens will use a gun for self defense today and everyday in the US this year).

"tyranny of the majority" 5% is not "tyranny of the majority" you frigging idiot.

No gun control can work unless citizens know who is not supposed to have them. Adam Lanza was not supposed to have a gun. How in the hell was people at the shooting range, neighbors, friends, family & others supposed to know he was not supposed to be practicing with, carrying or have access to guns.

It amazes me that so many of the gun lovers need to call anyone who disagrees with them and supports efforts to mitigate gun violence idiots. Even some one who failed to graduate from high school must know such a response is at best childish.

BTW, there is a link attached to my post #4203. If you have the ability to read and comprehend, and then offer a thoughtful rebuttal to the link, you will become the only gun lover to respond as an educated, non hysterical adult on this thread.

People call you an idiot probably because your posts indicate you are. You insist on a 100% standard for pro gun solutions but excuse yourself from that standard yourself. When faced with counterarguments you simply name call or deflect. You post links that refute your own points. And you consistently fail to address the question of this thread: what is your solution to criminals with guns? Your solutions seem to be aimed at law abiding citizens with guns, not at criminals.

Threads move past the OP all the time, and I have address the question in the OP several times. It is a loaded question, that you won't or can't understand.

That you can't refute it is on you. That you don't know what a loaded question is, and I've defined it several times, is enough evidence for me to conclude you are either dishonest or willfully ignorant.

You haven't addressed it at all. Each one of your points has been shown to be useless to achieve the thing you say you want......

His response is it must be your fault you dont understand why he's right.

 

[kaz]

417 pages and the following is proved:

• The 2nd is NOT Sacrosanct

Not. That is a strawman you keep repeating. No one but you said criminals can gave guns Constitutionally. We keep saying you can remove the right to be armed like any other right, with due process. Gun ownership is no more or less protected than other Constitutional rights, only you say otherwise.

You came into this discussion with liberal, city snob bigotry over gun owners. You ran into a half dozen of us who are strong gun advocates, and the consistent discussion point was that all your bigotries were wrong. Yet your bigotries cannot be taken from your cold dead fingers, you continue to cling to them. You have done no learning here. The more wrong you are, the more smug you are about it

• Extreme gun lovers equate gun control as tyranny

Yes, like freedom of speech, the right to a jury trial, etc. Exactly the view and even the word, tyranny, used by the founding fathers when they wrote those

• Only criminals will have guns, if any effort to mitigate gun violence becomes law

That's your goal

• Man is not free unless s/he is not armed at all times

that was a product of when you were taking heroin during the debate, it was the voices in your head. Let that one go

• A trigger lock makes a gun as lethal as a wet noodle (not)

You willing to risk that with your life or your family's life on the line? You probably are, some of us are not.

• M14 Shooter's skills to debate begin and end with spam

Puts him ahead of you. For you, debate begins and ends with your failure to grasp anyone's opinion but your own

• 2aguy, Rabbi(t), M14 Shooter and Zimmerman should never own, possess or have in their custody and control a gun.

OK?

 

[2aguy]

No one has proved that gun controls have not prevented violence. Gun violence occurs everyday and most of the arguments against gun control are lies, or simply gun lovers parroting the lies of others.

Evidence?

Here's some, but the willfully ignorant will ignore the link below and/or dispute it based on its source. Keep in mind the gun lovers fail to provide any evidence to support what they commonly believe:

11 essential facts about guns and mass shootings in the United States - The Washington Post

Your article is not loading for me, otherwise I would take each point apart...I'll try that later....

No one has proved that gun controls have not prevented violence.

With each mass shooting we point out how your gun control laws that you push did nothing to stop the shooting.

With the gun murder rate at 8,454 for 2013.....that many criminals got guns illegally, since most shooters are criminals with long criminal histories and are not allowed to own or carry guns.

Statistics show the record on background checks......more law abiding citizens are stopped than criminals...since criminals still get their guns while law abiding citizens have to go through even more hassle to clear their name to get their background checks cleared.

We have gun control in this country and it can be very effective when it is used.....if you use a gun to commit a crime you get arrested and put in jail. If you are a convicted criminal and are caught with a gun you are arrested and put in jail......that actually works, requires no licensing, registration or magazine limits....and it doesn't infringe on the rights of law abiding citizens and that is how all other crimes are handled.....

But for some reason you guys tell us...no...we just want criminals to not get guns....and then focus all of your attention on disarming law abiding citizens with laws that do just that...and do nothing to stop mass shooters or criminals.....

 

[2aguy]

Here you go Wry catcher....this picture refutes all of your arguments.....

And I love posting it...it is priceless, and says a lot more than 1,000 words.....

 

[2aguy]

1. Shooting sprees are not rare in the United States.

Mother Jones tracked and mapped shooting sprees over the three decades from 1982 to May of last year. They counted "at least 61 mass murders carried out with firearms across the country, with the killings unfolding in 30 states from Massachusetts to Hawaii," they found.

A Congressional Research Service report published in 2013 counted 78 incidents over roughly the same period, in which 547 were killed. Definitions of mass shootings vary.

78 mass shootings in 31 years = 2.5 a year....yes...that is rare.......

 

[M14 Shooter]

1. Shooting sprees are not rare in the United States.

Mother Jones tracked and mapped shooting sprees over the three decades from 1982 to May of last year. They counted "at least 61 mass murders carried out with firearms across the country, with the killings unfolding in 30 states from Massachusetts to Hawaii," they found.

A Congressional Research Service report published in 2013 counted 78 incidents over roughly the same period, in which 547 were killed. Definitions of mass shootings vary.

78 mass shootings in 31 years = 2.5 a year....yes...that is rare.......

Under 18 deaths per year.
It's an epidemic.

 

[2aguy]

2. Gun ownership in the United States is declining overall, but nearly a third of households still have a gun.

Not true...reporting ownership to surveys is declining....but all indicators show an increase in gun ownership...especially among women and minorities....and over 12.8 million people now carry guns for self defense...

This is a new tactic...try to say no one is buying guns....so politicians...you don't have to fear passing more gun control laws...

 

[2aguy]

11 essential facts about guns and mass shootings in the United States - The Washington Post

 

[2aguy]

11 essential facts about guns and mass shootings in the United States - The Washington Post

 

[M14 Shooter]

No one has proved that gun controls have not prevented violence.

You want more gun control; onus is on you to show that gun control prevents violence.

Gun violence occurs everyday and most of the arguments against gun control are lies, or simply gun lovers parroting the lies of others.

This is, of course, a lie.
You and I both know that you have never had an effective counter to any of my arguments; you and I both know that I have illustrated how all of your arguments are based on emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty.

 

[2aguy]

11 essential facts about guns and mass shootings in the United States - The Washington Post

3. Active shooter events have become more common in recent years.

Not true.....that FBI report was flawed and has been exposed as a flawed paper.....research shows that there hasn't been an increase and these incidents have stayed the same....

 

[2aguy]

4. Of the 12 deadliest shootings in the United States, six havehappened from 2007 onward.

What is the point to this......less than one per year....and these guys are getting smarter, learning from each other and targeting gun free zones still..........

 

[2aguy]

5. America is an unusually violent country. But we're not as violent as we used to be.

In fact...as more Americans have owned guns and now carry guns, over 12.8 million people now, gun murder has gone down, not up.....

Which shows you guys were wrong.....each time a state tried to pass concealed or open carry, you whined that there would be blood in the streets and more gun crime....

You were wrong...completely wrong.....guns in the hands of law abiding citizens do not increase crime....they lower it.

 

[2aguy]

6. The South is the most violent region in the United States.

Could that be because we share a border with a violent, corrupt Country that has violent drug cartels infiltrating our southern border....and I would like to see how they compute that.....since gun grabbers lie all the time.....

 

[2aguy]

7. More guns tend to mean more homicide.

This one is particularly stupid...

1) they quote the study by the gun control hack hemenway....

2) They just stated in # 5 that violence is going down....and we know that more Americans own and carry guns than ever before....the gun murder rate is going down, according to the FBI, the CDC......

So how in the fuck can they say that more guns mean more homicides?

 

[2aguy]

8. States with stricter gun control laws have fewer deaths from gun-related violence.

Then how do you explain cities with the strictest gun control laws having the highest crime and gun murder rates?

And the criteria they use...1) assault weapon ban, 2) trigger locks 3) safe storage of guns...

Are they fucking stupid.....more people are killed with knives and hands and feet than rifles of any kind, and "Assault rifles" kill far fewer than that......and how exactly do trigger locks and safe storage laws stop criminals from using them to commit crimes....

And of course, the most violent cities in the country...are all controlled by democrats...and have the strictest gun control laws...Chicago, D.C., Baltimore, New York, which will be increasing, and is since they ended stop and frisk....look at the cities with the most gun crime.....they have the strictest gun control....and have horrible police policies.

 

[The Rabbi]

417 pages and the following is proved:

• The 2nd is NOT Sacrosanct

Not. That is a strawman you keep repeating. No one but you said criminals can gave guns Constitutionally. We keep saying you can remove the right to be armed like any other right, with due process. Gun ownership is no more or less protected than other Constitutional rights, only you say otherwise.

You came into this discussion with liberal, city snob bigotry over gun owners. You ran into a half dozen of us who are strong gun advocates, and the consistent discussion point was that all your bigotries were wrong. Yet your bigotries cannot be taken from your cold dead fingers, you continue to cling to them. You have done no learning here. The more wrong you are, the more smug you are about it

• Extreme gun lovers equate gun control as tyranny

Yes, like freedom of speech, the right to a jury trial, etc. Exactly the view and even the word, tyranny, used by the founding fathers when they wrote those

• Only criminals will have guns, if any effort to mitigate gun violence becomes law

That's your goal

• Man is not free unless s/he is not armed at all times

that was a product of when you were taking heroin during the debate, it was the voices in your head. Let that one go

• A trigger lock makes a gun as lethal as a wet noodle (not)

You willing to risk that with your life or your family's life on the line? You probably are, some of us are not.

• M14 Shooter's skills to debate begin and end with spam

Puts him ahead of you. For you, debate begins and ends with your failure to grasp anyone's opinion but your own

• 2aguy, Rabbi(t), M14 Shooter and Zimmerman should never own, possess or have in their custody and control a gun.

OK?

Idiot doesnt get that I'm an FFL.

 

[Wry Catcher]

11 essential facts about guns and mass shootings in the United States - The Washington Post

3. Active shooter events have become more common in recent years.

Not true.....that FBI report was flawed and has been exposed as a flawed paper.....research shows that there hasn't been an increase and these incidents have stayed the same....

Your evidence is missing and less than convincing, much like everyone of your posts.