Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

[Wry Catcher]

Define Criminal.

Take a moment to think (I know, that gets in the way of your beliefs, but try)

Consider those recent mass murderers. How many were criminals before they committed their horrendous act of violence?

IMO, this thread is nothing more than a loaded question:

Example

How many school shootings should we tolerate before we change the gun laws?

Explanation: The presupposition is that changing the gun laws will decrease the number of school shootings. This may be the case, but it is a claim that is implied in the statement and hidden by a more complex question.

It is the basis for my contention that the OP's author is dishonest.

Government and Police have become lazy and arrogant. They're not doing their job. Taxpayers are fully behind them in taking guns away from criminals. But that's not happening enough. It's time for them to stop focusing on good people who acquire their firearms the right way. That's not what Taxpayers are paying them for.

Take your rant and move to a country which best fits your needs. Your first sentence is based on a foundation of very loose bullshit; if you feel government and every police officer in this country are lazy provide examples to your city manager, organize (gee you too could become a community organizer) your friends and neighbors to protest what you believe is basic incompetence - you could call yourselves Occupy Main Street (OMS).

And read my posts above, define criminal.

Government and Police need to stop being lazy and arrogant. It's time to do their job. Stop with the excuses and take the guns away from the criminals. That's what Taxpayers are paying them to do.

Rant #2. You've stated a problem, but offer no solution or evidence that your rant is in fact true. Of course some LE personnel are lazy and arrogant. That's true in some cases, it is not a universal truth.

Heard all the excuses. American Police have more than enough man-power and fire-power to take on thugs with guns. We're a damn Police State for God's sake. They have every advanced weapon known to man at their disposal. So leave law abiding Citizens alone and focus on taking on the criminals. Do the job. Period, end of story.

How would I are a local LE agent know that your are a law abiding citizen?

For that matter, how many previously law abiding citizens committed violent crimes?

One more question, if your state required all persons who wanted to own, possess or have in their custody or control a gun, would you obtain such a license?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Government and Police have become lazy and arrogant. They're not doing their job. Taxpayers are fully behind them in taking guns away from criminals. But that's not happening enough. It's time for them to stop focusing on good people who acquire their firearms the right way. That's not what Taxpayers are paying them for.

Take your rant and move to a country which best fits your needs. Your first sentence is based on a foundation of very loose bullshit; if you feel government and every police officer in this country are lazy provide examples to your city manager, organize (gee you too could become a community organizer) your friends and neighbors to protest what you believe is basic incompetence - you could call yourselves Occupy Main Street (OMS).

And read my posts above, define criminal.

Government and Police need to stop being lazy and arrogant. It's time to do their job. Stop with the excuses and take the guns away from the criminals. That's what Taxpayers are paying them to do.

Rant #2. You've stated a problem, but offer no solution or evidence that your rant is in fact true. Of course some LE personnel are lazy and arrogant. That's true in some cases, it is not a universal truth.

Heard all the excuses. American Police have more than enough man-power and fire-power to take on thugs with guns. We're a damn Police State for God's sake. They have every advanced weapon known to man at their disposal. So leave law abiding Citizens alone and focus on taking on the criminals. Do the job. Period, end of story.

How would I are a local LE agent know that your are a law abiding citizen?

Do you have probable cause to believe otherwise? No? There you go.

 

[paulitician]

Government and Police have become lazy and arrogant. They're not doing their job. Taxpayers are fully behind them in taking guns away from criminals. But that's not happening enough. It's time for them to stop focusing on good people who acquire their firearms the right way. That's not what Taxpayers are paying them for.

Take your rant and move to a country which best fits your needs. Your first sentence is based on a foundation of very loose bullshit; if you feel government and every police officer in this country are lazy provide examples to your city manager, organize (gee you too could become a community organizer) your friends and neighbors to protest what you believe is basic incompetence - you could call yourselves Occupy Main Street (OMS).

And read my posts above, define criminal.

Government and Police need to stop being lazy and arrogant. It's time to do their job. Stop with the excuses and take the guns away from the criminals. That's what Taxpayers are paying them to do.

Rant #2. You've stated a problem, but offer no solution or evidence that your rant is in fact true. Of course some LE personnel are lazy and arrogant. That's true in some cases, it is not a universal truth.

Heard all the excuses. American Police have more than enough man-power and fire-power to take on thugs with guns. We're a damn Police State for God's sake. They have every advanced weapon known to man at their disposal. So leave law abiding Citizens alone and focus on taking on the criminals. Do the job. Period, end of story.

How would I are a local LE agent know that your are a law abiding citizen?

For that matter, how many previously law abiding citizens committed violent crimes?

One more question, if your state required all persons who wanted to own, possess or have in their custody or control a gun, would you obtain such a license?

Lots of thugs out there with guns wreaking havoc. Time to take em on. The Government and Police have no excuses. We're living in a Police State. They have all the weapons and money they need. They're only lacking the will and guts.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Q. [for all] Would you obtain a license if required by your state of all persons who want to, or currently own, a gun;

or, do you believe that your beliefs are above the law?

Q. Do you believe this County Clerk is acting responsibly?

Q. Should she be fired?

Federal judge orders Kentucky clerk and her staff to court

Q. Do you support the Clerk's husband's comment on his Second Amendment Rights?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Q. [for all] Would you obtain a license if required by your state of all persons who want to, or currently own, a gun;

Licensure of gun owners, for which there is no sound argument, violates the 2nd amendment.
Violate, take to court, win.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Take your rant and move to a country which best fits your needs. Your first sentence is based on a foundation of very loose bullshit; if you feel government and every police officer in this country are lazy provide examples to your city manager, organize (gee you too could become a community organizer) your friends and neighbors to protest what you believe is basic incompetence - you could call yourselves Occupy Main Street (OMS).

And read my posts above, define criminal.

Government and Police need to stop being lazy and arrogant. It's time to do their job. Stop with the excuses and take the guns away from the criminals. That's what Taxpayers are paying them to do.

Rant #2. You've stated a problem, but offer no solution or evidence that your rant is in fact true. Of course some LE personnel are lazy and arrogant. That's true in some cases, it is not a universal truth.

Heard all the excuses. American Police have more than enough man-power and fire-power to take on thugs with guns. We're a damn Police State for God's sake. They have every advanced weapon known to man at their disposal. So leave law abiding Citizens alone and focus on taking on the criminals. Do the job. Period, end of story.

How would I are a local LE agent know that your are a law abiding citizen?

Do you have probable cause to believe otherwise? No? There you go.

How does probable cause relate to may comment? It doesn't, thus you have once again asked a stupid question. Do you oppose licensing drivers, doctors, lawyers, contractors or dogs? Does a government need to wait until a driver runs a red light, a lay person does surgery or defends a client. a man or women build a structure which falls and kills someone or a dog bites someone?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Government and Police need to stop being lazy and arrogant. It's time to do their job. Stop with the excuses and take the guns away from the criminals. That's what Taxpayers are paying them to do.

Rant #2. You've stated a problem, but offer no solution or evidence that your rant is in fact true. Of course some LE personnel are lazy and arrogant. That's true in some cases, it is not a universal truth.

Heard all the excuses. American Police have more than enough man-power and fire-power to take on thugs with guns. We're a damn Police State for God's sake. They have every advanced weapon known to man at their disposal. So leave law abiding Citizens alone and focus on taking on the criminals. Do the job. Period, end of story.

How would I are a local LE agent know that your are a law abiding citizen?

Do you have probable cause to believe otherwise? No? There you go.

How does probable cause relate to may comment?

You asked how you know. You don't. And so, you act according to probable cause in that you assume they are unless you have reason to believe otherwise.
So much for your claim of being an LEO.

 

[Wry Catcher]

70% ? Your opinion once again?

2013
974,077 violent crimes
274,663 involved firearms
71.70 % of violent crimes did not involve firearms.
Table 19
Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Again you miss the point ONE REASON is the essential issue.

OK them.... where does that reason rank compared to the other reasons?

Read post #4395 and please try not to be the dishonest asshole you seem to be.

4395 does not answer my question.
Please do try again.

FU and your stupid questions. You've flunked the attitude test, punk.

 

[paulitician]

Government and Police need to stop being lazy and arrogant. It's time to do their job. Stop with the excuses and take the guns away from the criminals. That's what Taxpayers are paying them to do.

Rant #2. You've stated a problem, but offer no solution or evidence that your rant is in fact true. Of course some LE personnel are lazy and arrogant. That's true in some cases, it is not a universal truth.

Heard all the excuses. American Police have more than enough man-power and fire-power to take on thugs with guns. We're a damn Police State for God's sake. They have every advanced weapon known to man at their disposal. So leave law abiding Citizens alone and focus on taking on the criminals. Do the job. Period, end of story.

How would I are a local LE agent know that your are a law abiding citizen?

Do you have probable cause to believe otherwise? No? There you go.

How does probable cause relate to may comment? It doesn't, thus you have once again asked a stupid question. Do you oppose licensing drivers, doctors, lawyers, contractors or dogs? Does a government need to wait until a driver runs a red light, a lay person does surgery or defends a client. a man or women build a structure which falls and kills someone or a dog bites someone?

Acquiring a firearm the right way is legal, and a Constitutional right. You personally may not like that, but that's irrelevant. There's lots of things people do that i don't care for. But if it's legal and their Constitutional right, so be it. I have to live with it. Those who acquire their firearms illegally, will be dealt with. They're considered criminals. And that's who law enforcement should be focusing on.

 

[M14 Shooter]

2013
974,077 violent crimes
274,663 involved firearms
71.70 % of violent crimes did not involve firearms.
Table 19
Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Again you miss the point ONE REASON is the essential issue.

OK them.... where does that reason rank compared to the other reasons?

Read post #4395 and please try not to be the dishonest asshole you seem to be.

4395 does not answer my question.
Please do try again.

FU and your stupid questions. You've flunked the attitude test, punk.

Translation:
You have no effective response.
As usual.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Q. [for all] Would you obtain a license if required by your state of all persons who want to, or currently own, a gun;

Licensure of gun owners, for which there is no sound argument, violates the 2nd amendment.
Violate, take to court, win.

There you go, posting an echo of all of your past echoes. That's your usual response and it takes us back pages. Stop being a punk and an asshole, I'm not going to post this again.

• A license is required today to own military style firearms, and the courts have not outlawed such requirements.
• I've never advocated the denial of a citizen to own a gun unless there is probable cause to do so
• Probable cause includes convictions for crimes of violence, habitual DUI's, Involuntary civil commitments as a danger to themselves or others, gang affiliation, drug trafficking an sales, rape, sexually battery and other crimes against a person
• A license is simply a means to show one has had a background check, something done today but not universally. It would allow a private sale assuring the seller that the buyer is not a terrorist, domestic or otherwise.
• A license can and should be revoked when the licensee has committed and been convicted of any crime by laws requires it
• A license can and should be suspended when a crime of violence is alleged, and in such a case the matter of any owned firearms will be up to the magistrate before bail or OR is considered.

Now F off; these are my opinions, thus you have no need to whine, piss and moan. This is a forum for all of us to express our opinion.

You have and in too many words have defaulted to The SECOND AMENDMENT. My advice to you to STFU about the Second, least more and more people decide it must be repealed or modified. Your obsession with guns, and that of a few others is to me pathological.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Q. [for all] Would you obtain a license if required by your state of all persons who want to, or currently own, a gun;

Licensure of gun owners, for which there is no sound argument, violates the 2nd amendment.
Violate, take to court, win.

There you go, posting an echo of all of your past echoes.

An echo that you have no capacity to soundly address.
Gun license / registration -- a sound argument? | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

You have and in too many words have defaulted to The SECOND AMENDMENT.

Another issue that you have no capacity to soundly address.
Gun control? Leave the 2nd amendment out of it! | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[Wry Catcher]

I didn't see either of your posts linked above.

That said, thank you for proving you are obsessed with guns, a pathology which may not be a psychosis, but is neurotic to the extreme.

Those who live by the gun, die by the gun (a paraphrase you may now used in your signature line, sans any context - a mendacity of lying by omission of which you have demonstrated a propensity to do).

 

[M14 Shooter]

I didn't see either of your posts linked above.

Nor have you responded..
Because you know you have no sound response.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Rant #2. You've stated a problem, but offer no solution or evidence that your rant is in fact true. Of course some LE personnel are lazy and arrogant. That's true in some cases, it is not a universal truth.

Heard all the excuses. American Police have more than enough man-power and fire-power to take on thugs with guns. We're a damn Police State for God's sake. They have every advanced weapon known to man at their disposal. So leave law abiding Citizens alone and focus on taking on the criminals. Do the job. Period, end of story.

How would I are a local LE agent know that your are a law abiding citizen?

Do you have probable cause to believe otherwise? No? There you go.

How does probable cause relate to may comment?

You asked how you know. You don't. And so, you act according to probable cause in that you assume they are unless you have reason to believe otherwise.
So much for your claim of being an LEO.

Would you like me to post my BADGE and DD-214? I won't because I value the privacy of my family, and when I call you obsessed, I'm serious. Too often we've seen obsessed people commit mass murder. I don't know you, but I wouldn't trust you under and condition.

Most LE follows policy, and that policy is called a use of force. Some agents/officers/deputies don't, as we have seen too often in recent months. Most agencies train LE and require that they qualify AND understand the use of force policy on a regular basis.

Most agencies require any sworn or non sworn employee to notify them of an arrest. Failure to do so, or if they do but plead the 5th, they are directed to answer the question or be fired.

You claim to own a gun, I don't believe you. I believe you sit in your bedroom in your parents home and pretend to be something your not - an adult. Probably a high school dropout who wants a gun but has been told by mommy and daddy, "no", because you would probably shot your own eye out.

Even if you are an adult and own firearms you do not have a use of force policy, you are not trained often on the use of force and any new legislation which impacts that policy. We've seen to many accidents when untrained fools kill an innocent person because they were scared or because they wanted to be seen as a hero.

 

[paulitician]

Heard all the excuses. American Police have more than enough man-power and fire-power to take on thugs with guns. We're a damn Police State for God's sake. They have every advanced weapon known to man at their disposal. So leave law abiding Citizens alone and focus on taking on the criminals. Do the job. Period, end of story.

How would I are a local LE agent know that your are a law abiding citizen?

Do you have probable cause to believe otherwise? No? There you go.

How does probable cause relate to may comment?

You asked how you know. You don't. And so, you act according to probable cause in that you assume they are unless you have reason to believe otherwise.
So much for your claim of being an LEO.

Would you like me to post my BADGE and DD-214? I won't because I value the privacy of my family, and when I call you obsessed, I'm serious. Too often we've seen obsessed people commit mass murder. I don't know you, but I wouldn't trust you under and condition.

Most LE follows policy, and that policy is called a use of force. Some agents/officers/deputies don't, as we have seen too often in recent months. Most agencies train LE and require that they qualify AND understand the use of force policy on a regular basis.

Most agencies require any sworn or non sworn employee to notify them of an arrest. Failure to do so, or if they do but plead the 5th, they are directed to answer the question or be fired.

You claim to own a gun, I don't believe you. I believe you sit in your bedroom in your parents home and pretend to be something your not - an adult. Probably a high school dropout who wants a gun but has been told by mommy and daddy, "no", because you would probably shot your own eye out.

Even if you are an adult and own firearms you do not have a use of force policy, you are not trained often on the use of force and any new legislation which impacts that policy. We've seen to many accidents when untrained fools kill an innocent person because they were scared or because they wanted to be seen as a hero.

Acquiring a firearm is and never has been a crime. It's every American Citizen's Constitutional right. However, we do have laws set up to make sure Citizens do it legally. If you acquire a firearm by way of non-legal means, you are a criminal. And it's time law enforcement starts focusing on those people. Law abiding Citizens should not be the targets.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Heard all the excuses. American Police have more than enough man-power and fire-power to take on thugs with guns. We're a damn Police State for God's sake. They have every advanced weapon known to man at their disposal. So leave law abiding Citizens alone and focus on taking on the criminals. Do the job. Period, end of story.

How would I are a local LE agent know that your are a law abiding citizen?

Do you have probable cause to believe otherwise? No? There you go.

How does probable cause relate to may comment?

You asked how you know. You don't. And so, you act according to probable cause in that you assume they are unless you have reason to believe otherwise.
So much for your claim of being an LEO.

Would you like me to post my BADGE and DD-214?

Internet credentials? LOL
Nothing you can post to that end makes up for your lack of knowledge, inability to argue knowledgeably and/or honestly, and your repeated failures to stand and deliver when challenged..

 

[Wry Catcher]

How would I are a local LE agent know that your are a law abiding citizen?

Do you have probable cause to believe otherwise? No? There you go.

How does probable cause relate to may comment?

You asked how you know. You don't. And so, you act according to probable cause in that you assume they are unless you have reason to believe otherwise.
So much for your claim of being an LEO.

Would you like me to post my BADGE and DD-214?

Internet credentials? LOL
Nothing you can post to that end makes up for your lack of knowledge, inability to argue knowledgeably and/or honestly, and your repeated failures to stand and deliver when challenged..

Your first sentence is true, that you're too stupid to evaluate the evidence with an unbiased eye is your problem, not mine. So take my advice and and quit whining, it makes you appear pitiful.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Guys on a Message board don't have an answer on drafting a bill? Well that settles it...There is no solution if one cant be found here by gosh

Actually if you read the op, I didn't ask anyone about "drafting a bill." I asked them to explain their plan.

Once again, a dishonest loaded question ^^^; which has not been addressed by Kaz, M14 or 2aguy:

A question that has a presupposition built in, which implies something but protects the one asking the question from accusations of false claims. It is a form of misleading discourse, and it is a fallacy when the audience does not detect the assumed information implicit in the question, and accepts it as a fact.

I have not accepted the question as fact, it is simply a dishonest effort to limit discourse on gun control.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Do you have probable cause to believe otherwise? No? There you go.

How does probable cause relate to may comment?

You asked how you know. You don't. And so, you act according to probable cause in that you assume they are unless you have reason to believe otherwise.
So much for your claim of being an LEO.

Would you like me to post my BADGE and DD-214?

Internet credentials? LOL
Nothing you can post to that end makes up for your lack of knowledge, inability to argue knowledgeably and/or honestly, and your repeated failures to stand and deliver when challenged..

Your first sentence is true, that you're too stupid to evaluate the evidence with an unbiased eye is your problem, not mine. So take my advice and and quit whining, it makes you appear pitiful.

Thank you for proving my point.