Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

[martybegan]

The equivalent would be liscencing guns, registering them with the DMV, and mandating insurance.

See how that equivalence thing works? All the components are the same. That is what equivalent means, not some absolutionist, catastrophizing, strawman bullshit.

driving is not a right, it is a privilege

law, learn it, embrace it

Guns aren't a right either. The right to bear arms doesn't mean you. A right can be regulated. And insured. And resricted.

The right to bear arms means EXACTLY me. Its amazing how people can ignore the constitution when it suits them.

 

[candycorn]

with your so-called proposal, you have just violated the 2nd, 14th & 24th Amendments. Nice work. Poll taxes were struck down as unconstitutional as they violated the right to vote. Rights can not be taxed so that only a few can enjoy them. Gun ownership by private citizens isn't the problem, when are you leftists going to understand that? We have had gun ownership in this country for over 200 years & until recently, it was never an issue. The problem is criminals will continue to have access to weaponry. The founding fathers understood this as well since the language of a free state was included in the 2nd Amendment. Crime takes away from the concept of a free state which is another reason why We The People can own weapons.

Fewer owners does not lead to fewer guns nor does it lead to fewer in circulation. That approach never worked during Prohibition & it never worked during the war on drugs. Criminals can merely import their weapons or even make them themselves. These are foolish ideas put forth by foolish people. If you don't want to own a gun, that is fine. That's your right. But you will not tell me that I can not own a gun when the Constitution clearly states I have that right.

You have a right to smoke also...its taxed crazily.

Fewer buyers will cause fewer guns being made.

Violations are for the courts to decide.

So what about answering my question this time?

Suppose we put a stiff tax on abortion. Is that Constitutional?

I would think it would be...yes.

However, one is a retail sale and another is a medical procedure; not sure how you'd go about taxing some medical procedures more than others but; okay. If you don't buy a gun, you go home and get upset. If you can't get your fetus aborted, the lives of 2 human beings are irrevocably changed... It's a bit of a false analogy.

 

[candycorn]

Name some modern democracies that have gone to tyranny. Not even the anti gun euro countries have. They should be the first right?

I'm simply going to answer that by asking if you've been watching the news at all lately.

Yes I'm not aware of any modern democracies in danger of tyranny. Name some.

It could happen at any moment. In fact the last one was the CSA in 1860 or so. The same one that a lot of the gun nuts are so proud of...and hope will come back ASAP. Strange huh.

 

[candycorn]

Every time there's a shooting, liberals run around saying this proves we need more gun laws. I ask liberals over and over how exactly you are going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals every time you say you want more gun laws.

In particular, address given that drugs are illegal, and yet any parent knows any kid can get as much pot as they want. There are millions of guns in the US, millions more in the world. So don't just say more laws, explain how more laws are going to actually work.

So, there have been 7 shootings killing at least 10 people in the last decade. The only thing you've achieved so far is that no one was shooting back.

I'm not a liberal but I have a plan.

My plan is less criminals.

A: Teach kids to be responsible in school vs. the current plan of teaching them to be liberals.
B: Eliminate all criminal activities of the government. Such as the redistribution of wealth schemes. These redistribution schemes make people of the left believe they are entitled to things they have not earned.
C: End the war on Drugs. Duh.
D: End government managed welfare.
E: Prosecute vagrancy as a felonious act. No job, no family, no assets, no ward? Fine you get to go on the chain gang.

I cannot begin to tell you how absurd you are.

The only way to preserve the 2nd Amendment is to do away with all of the lesser amendments like free speech, right to LL&H...flimsy ones.

 

[candycorn]

I'm sorry but your argument is horribly flawed candy. I'm sorry for whatever you experienced in life that gave you such a negative preception of guns. At some point I hope you gain the objectivity to realize that it is only that; a perception which does not neccessarily constitute reality. You say the above as if their is a realtionship between the number of guns in existence and death. That's simply not correct. You convenietly ignored my response, probably because you can't argue it, but to reiterate, if that were the case, there should have been death and violence all around growing up considering the number of guns in my neighborhood and that simply wasn't the case. You are wrong on to fronts here. A moral one in that it wrong to punish and stigmatize the law abiding in response to the non law abiding. You are no different than someone who would tax a person for being gay. It is also wrong from simple logical problem solving perspective. If you outlaw guns, only the lawless will have them.

Society has long taxed behavior it sees as damaging and encouraged behavior it sees as beneficial.

Sorry you disagree with what I perceive as one or the other. I tend to think of body counts in the thousands as bad things and you do not...but there is NO danger of anything I'm proposing getting passed in this day and age.

Relax.

On the contrary. It is YOU who does not think about the body counts. Outlawing guns is not the logical response of someone who is concerned with that. The logical response would be to look at the root causes of violence, not focus solely on the object with which violence is carried out. You would also to a better job of priortizing these things that supposedly cause death. Guns are pretty low on the list of inanimate objects involved in injury and death in the U.S. Cars are significantly above guns in that respect. Why is it you are not motivated to ban those. To use your own words and simply changing a noun; The harder you make it to own a car, the fewer of them there will be and less death and injury as a result.

Great, lets ban cars too. Oh wait, the TT&L is unconstitutional since it prevents poor people from buying them.

This is how goofy the argument has gotten in the "defense" of life-robbing weapons.

Cars, at least in most states, have to have liability insurance which, at least holds the drivers somewhat financially responsible for their WMDs. Will you agree that there should be the same stipulation for gun owners and their WMDs then--if you're going to hold on to this analogy?

 

[JoeB131]

Do you jack off at night over the thought of 5 out of 9 people lording over your daily life, and deciding what is your right, and what is it?

Guy, you are the one who wants to hide behind Heller every time you see a poll that shows that 94% want stricter background checks and 70% would increase the amount of restrictions on guns.

I'd say, leave it to the people. Let's have national plebasites on this shit.

Shove your plebiscite up your ass. If you want to repeal the 2nd amendment do it the real way, 2/3 of congress and 3/4 of the states, or 3/4 of the states via conventions.

Any way else, piss off.

Or Scalia dies. We appoint a non-mouth-breather to replace him and we pass sensible laws to "well-Regulate" that militia.


GET IT?


We don't to do ANYTHING to the Second Amendment to get gun control, guy.


We just need to change attitudes. And really, you gun nuts are ALREADY marginalizing yourselves.

 

[JoeB131]

I repeat, since you dumb asses choice to ignore it. Washington DC, New York and Chicago prove that strict gun control does not work.

No, it proves that you need to have Gun control on a NATIONAL level, not a local one.

Russia, South Africa, Mexico and even England prove that strict gun control does not work.

The UK only had 48 gunmurders last year. Gun ownership is widespread in Russia and South Africa (Ranking 9th and 17th in Gun ownership). Mexico has a "Right to Bear Arms" in their constitution just like the US. So all your examples are kind of bad.

All around these areas are cities, states and Countries with less strict gun control and less crime, violence and murder. In fact studies show that less strict laws that allow law abiding citizens to own and carry firearms leads to less crime, less violence and less murder. Already posted them and you all ignore them.

All around these areas are places where not a lot of people live. Greater density of people, more violence. Human nature.

But Japan has strict gun control and very limited gun ownership. Despite being more densely crowded than the US, they had 11 gun murders in 2008.

Germany has very strict gun registration. They had only 258 gun murders.

The US has very weak gun laws overall. We had 11,101 Gun murders.

We ain't doing it right.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Guy, you are the one who wants to hide behind Heller every time you see a poll that shows that 94% want stricter background checks and 70% would increase the amount of restrictions on guns.

I'd say, leave it to the people. Let's have national plebasites on this shit.

Shove your plebiscite up your ass. If you want to repeal the 2nd amendment do it the real way, 2/3 of congress and 3/4 of the states, or 3/4 of the states via conventions.

Any way else, piss off.

Or Scalia dies. We appoint a non-mouth-breather to replace him and we pass sensible laws to "well-Regulate" that militia.


GET IT?


We don't to do ANYTHING to the Second Amendment to get gun control, guy.


We just need to change attitudes. And really, you gun nuts are ALREADY marginalizing yourselves.

Joe, you're deluded. What happens when the Government does disarm everyone? Do you think murders will magically disappear? Man, spare me your far fetched utopian fantasies. What stops them from killing you or using guns to oppress you? You overreact too much. You need to change your attitude. In the grand scheme of things, we are insignificant insects in the eyes of this autonomous government body. Your political views won't mean much if you don't have the necessary firepower to back them up.

 

[JoeB131]

Joe, you're deluded. What happens when the Government does disarm everyone? Do you think murders will magically disappear? Man, spare me your far fetched utopian fantasies. What stops them from killing you or using guns to oppress you? You overreact too much. You need to change your attitude. In the grand scheme of things, we are insignificant insects in the eyes of this autonomous government body. Your political views won't mean much if you don't have the necessary firepower to back them up.

Actually, you'll never have enough firepower to stop the government.

Never, ever, not once. The day you fight the government, your neighbors will be cheering the govenrment because you were frightening their children.

Now, for criminals, again, COMPARE the US to the other G-7 advanced industrialized democracies. Hardly a "Utopian Fantasy".

Japan bans guns. They only had 11 gun murders last year and less than 600 total murders.

Japan is a real place. It really exists.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Joe, you're deluded. What happens when the Government does disarm everyone? Do you think murders will magically disappear? Man, spare me your far fetched utopian fantasies. What stops them from killing you or using guns to oppress you? You overreact too much. You need to change your attitude. In the grand scheme of things, we are insignificant insects in the eyes of this autonomous government body. Your political views won't mean much if you don't have the necessary firepower to back them up.

Actually, you'll never have enough firepower to stop the government.

Are you an agent of the Government? There are over 80 million gun owners in the US. We only have a military of about 1.5 million men and women. You do the math, wiseass.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

Shove your plebiscite up your ass. If you want to repeal the 2nd amendment do it the real way, 2/3 of congress and 3/4 of the states, or 3/4 of the states via conventions.

Any way else, piss off.

Or Scalia dies. We appoint a non-mouth-breather to replace him and we pass sensible laws to "well-Regulate" that militia.


GET IT?


We don't to do ANYTHING to the Second Amendment to get gun control, guy.


We just need to change attitudes. And really, you gun nuts are ALREADY marginalizing yourselves.

Joe, you're deluded. What happens when the Government does disarm everyone? Do you think murders will magically disappear? Man, spare me your far fetched utopian fantasies. What stops them from killing you or using guns to oppress you? You overreact too much. You need to change your attitude. In the grand scheme of things, we are insignificant insects in the eyes of this autonomous government body. Your political views won't mean much if you don't have the necessary firepower to back them up.

You can't hide under a rock.

 

[Brain357]

Pot Grows in the ground.

Guns have to be manufactured.

Or you could just print one.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSMzGuboH9o]Plastic Guns - How Soon Until Criminals Use Them? - YouTube[/ame]

Yeah, it'll be very funny when the blow up in the faces of crooks.

Very expensive too.

 

[JoeB131]

Joe, you're deluded. What happens when the Government does disarm everyone? Do you think murders will magically disappear? Man, spare me your far fetched utopian fantasies. What stops them from killing you or using guns to oppress you? You overreact too much. You need to change your attitude. In the grand scheme of things, we are insignificant insects in the eyes of this autonomous government body. Your political views won't mean much if you don't have the necessary firepower to back them up.

Actually, you'll never have enough firepower to stop the government.

Are you an agent of the Government? There are over 80 million gun owners in the US. We only have a military of about 1.5 million men and women. You do the math, wiseass.

I have.


There are 80 million gun owners, most of who don't know what the fuck they are doing and have no business owning a gun to start with.

But you see, that's the problem. We have a gun industry that really thinks that a "Well-Regulated Militia" is Nancy Lanza prepping for the Zombie Apocolypse and taking her crazy son to the shooting range.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Actually, you'll never have enough firepower to stop the government.

Are you an agent of the Government? There are over 80 million gun owners in the US. We only have a military of about 1.5 million men and women. You do the math, wiseass.

I have.


There are 80 million gun owners, most of who don't know what the fuck they are doing and have no business owning a gun to start with.

But you see, that's the problem. We have a gun industry that really thinks that a "Well-Regulated Militia" is Nancy Lanza prepping for the Zombie Apocolypse and taking her crazy son to the shooting range.

Your argument has zero substance. Nothing but a vitriolic rant with no proof or hard evidence.

 

[JoeB131]

Are you an agent of the Government? There are over 80 million gun owners in the US. We only have a military of about 1.5 million men and women. You do the math, wiseass.

I have.

There are 80 million gun owners, most of who don't know what the fuck they are doing and have no business owning a gun to start with.

But you see, that's the problem. We have a gun industry that really thinks that a "Well-Regulated Militia" is Nancy Lanza prepping for the Zombie Apocolypse and taking her crazy son to the shooting range.

Your argument has zero substance. Nothing but a vitriolic rant with no proof or hard evidence.

Quite the contrary, the gun industry markets to the fringe now.

As I write about in my latest Rolling Stone feature, "The Gun Industry's Deadly Addiction," the firearms industry is in trouble. Its best customers are old Southern white men who are already armed to the teeth. To prop up sales, gunmakers today are marketing military-bred weaponry to civilians – guns which the industry touts for their high-tech precision and "stopping power." The firearms industry is also working feverishly to broaden its customer base, seeking to put these deadly weapons in the hands of kids, women of all ages, and a generation of young men raised on the virtual firepower of video games like Call of Duty.

Read on for a gallery documenting how the most dangerous industry in America markets its wares.



Read more: The Gun Industry's Nine Most Outrageous Marketing Ploys Pictures | Rolling Stone
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

 

[JoeB131]

The Gun Industry's Deadly Addiction | Politics News | Rolling Stone

For gunmakers, the political fight over assault rifles and high-capacity pistols is about more than just profits – it's about the militarization of the marketplace and represents a desperate bid by gunmakers to prop up a decaying business. The once-dependable market for traditional hunting guns has fallen off a cliff. To adapt, the firearms industry has embraced a business strategy that requires it to place the weapons of war favored by deranged killers like Adam Lanza and Jared Loughner into the homes and holsters of as many Americans as possible. "They're not selling your dad's hunting rifle or shotgun," says Josh Sugarmann, executive director of the Violence Policy Center, a top industry watchdog. "They're selling military-bred weaponry."

As recently as 2008, shotguns, rifles and other traditional hunting weapons made up half of all new civilian gun sales in America, according to SEC documents – a brisk billion-dollar business. Today, hunting guns account for less than a quarter of the market, and the hunting industry is forecasting a 24 percent drop in revenue by 2025. Gunmakers are on the wrong side of the same demographic curves that haunt the modern Republican Party. Its customer base is too old, too white, too male and too Southern. According to Gallup, 61 percent of white males in the South own guns today. Nationwide, just 18 percent of Latinos do. "The white males are aging and dying off," says Sugarmann. Flooding the market with battle-ready guns, he says, "is an effort to find one new, shiny thing to sell them."

 

[martybegan]

Joe, you're deluded. What happens when the Government does disarm everyone? Do you think murders will magically disappear? Man, spare me your far fetched utopian fantasies. What stops them from killing you or using guns to oppress you? You overreact too much. You need to change your attitude. In the grand scheme of things, we are insignificant insects in the eyes of this autonomous government body. Your political views won't mean much if you don't have the necessary firepower to back them up.

Actually, you'll never have enough firepower to stop the government.

Never, ever, not once. The day you fight the government, your neighbors will be cheering the govenrment because you were frightening their children.

Now, for criminals, again, COMPARE the US to the other G-7 advanced industrialized democracies. Hardly a "Utopian Fantasy".

Japan bans guns. They only had 11 gun murders last year and less than 600 total murders.

Japan is a real place. It really exists.

Japan does not have a minority crime/gang problem. Thier gangs are far more organized and discreet.

Japan has a huge suicide problem that dwarfs suicides in the US.

Comparing a monolithic culture such as Japan to a nation of immigrants such as ours is fail on your part.

Another JoePussy post about being a pussy.

 

[Edgetho]

From 'Rolling Stoned'?

Gimme a fucking break.

I stayed out of this thread for 455 posts.

Know why? Because the answer to the OPs question is really simple.....

Confiscation. It's what dimocraps want.

Since they know they can't get away with that, they'll slowly and incrementally strangle your gun rights until you're as comfortable as the proverbial.....

And why not? They been getting away with it for the past 100+ years.

Oh, they'll play the "I'm truly concerned" bit. They'll do their best to convince you that all they really want is 'common sense' gun control.

They'll do everything they can to make you think they're being reasonable while publicly disagreeing with their far-left brethren who are telling you the truth about what the dimocraps want.

But, in the end, confiscation is what dimocraps want.

ALL of them. ALL.

And the honest ones...... My bad, there are no honest ones.

We're talking dimocraps here.

And you'll fall for it. Just like you always do.

 

[Edgetho]

Joe, you're deluded. What happens when the Government does disarm everyone? Do you think murders will magically disappear? Man, spare me your far fetched utopian fantasies. What stops them from killing you or using guns to oppress you? You overreact too much. You need to change your attitude. In the grand scheme of things, we are insignificant insects in the eyes of this autonomous government body. Your political views won't mean much if you don't have the necessary firepower to back them up.

Actually, you'll never have enough firepower to stop the government.

Never, ever, not once. The day you fight the government, your neighbors will be cheering the govenrment because you were frightening their children.

Now, for criminals, again, COMPARE the US to the other G-7 advanced industrialized democracies. Hardly a "Utopian Fantasy".

Japan bans guns. They only had 11 gun murders last year and less than 600 total murders.

Japan is a real place. It really exists.

Japan does not have a minority crime/gang problem. Thier gangs are far more organized and discreet.

Japan has a huge suicide problem that dwarfs suicides in the US.

Comparing a monolithic culture such as Japan to a nation of immigrants such as ours is fail on your part.

Another JoePussy post about being a pussy.

Japan is a sick culture.

Some people need to study it first before they hold it up as an example.

And no, I'm not talking about the Shoguns or the WWII Imperialists, I'm talking right now.

They're a fucked up culture.

Think "I'd Rather Eat Chocolate" but ten times worse. More like a 100 times worse

Coupled with their love of sadism and pedophilia.....

Just sayin'

 

[JoeB131]

[

Japan does not have a minority crime/gang problem. Thier gangs are far more organized and discreet.

The Yakuza are vastly more vicious than the street gangs or even the Mafia is. The thing is, they are "discreet" because they don't have easy access to guns and the police aren't wasting time running in guys who shoot their neighbors so they can concentrate on them.

[
Japan has a huge suicide problem that dwarfs suicides in the US.

Number of sucides in Japan- 23,502.
Number of suicides in US- 38,285

Now, true their rate his higher- 18/100K to our 12/100K, but not by that much.

Besides, I thought you didn't care about suicide.

[
Comparing a monolithic culture such as Japan to a nation of immigrants such as ours is fail on your part.

Not seeing how being "immigrants" is an issue. We're all human beings, capable of violence and cruelty. It's just that the Japanese don't let the apes have guns, so they have a lot less.

[
Another JoePussy post about being a pussy.

Another Marty Post about how tiny his penis is and how scared of the Negroes he is.

Oooh, get yourself a gun, there's a scary negro in the White House.