Let Me Get This Straight About Impeachment Over Trump's Ukraine Phone Call

[Dragonlady]

I think even most Republicans would admit that Trump is just plain stupid

His diplomatic skills are almost child like and left him open to impeachment charges. I can’t think of any other president from either party who would be so naive

1. Opens up with a reminder that the US is the only one in Ukraine’s corner and that Europe can’t be counted on
2. Enters a discussion on military aid (which he had frozen just a week before) and when the subject of Javelin missile sales comes up...
3. Trump immediately pounces with........I need a favor “though”
4. Rather than hide his personal favors in with some generic US policy favors, he lists two favors that only pertain to him and the coming election
5. Has his aides tie a personal visit to the President with progress on his “favors”

Any other President or Mafia Don would be more subtle in their requests and have the actual details handled by underlings

Trump deserves impeachment for shear stupidity

if we were to punish people for being stupid, pretty sure you'd only be allowed to post during your 5 minutes of exercise time from prison.

Do you honestly think Trump handled the conversation well?

thats irrelevant because its a matter of opinion,,,

It most definitly not is a "matter of opinion", it's a matter of the Constitution of the United States specifically forbids foreign interference in American elections. Impeachment was designed not only to remove a criminally corrupt President, it was also designed to remove a President who was a clear and present danger to the safety and security of the nation. That's why the Founders did not define specific crimes as impeachable offences, so that corrupt conduct, abuse of power, and other behaviour by a sitting President not acting in the interests of the nation, could also be impeachable. The difference here is that Trump is directly engaged in behaviour that the Founded found so odious that they actually put it into the Constitution - interference by a foreign power in a US election.

Trump is not just inviting Zelensky to interfere, he was demanding it in exchange for military aid approved by Congress and paid for by the American people. Then Trump and his aids conspired to hide the evidence of this extortion, all while working behind the scenes to corruptly fire the American Ambassador and have Trump operatives, like Volker and Sondland, carry out this subversion of American foreign policy.

 

[Faun]

It is clear that there is no corruption. Getting a $50,000 a month retainer to sit on the board of directors is not illegal. There is no evidence that Hunter Biden committed any crimes. Hunter Biden is not related to Barack Obama. Biden represented the views of Obama, many in the federal government, the world community and Ukrainian reformers. The prosecutor was corrupt and it was the right thing to do.

Daria Kaleniuk‏ @dkaleniuk
Replying to @OliverBullough
Thank you @OliverBullough - indeed it’s insane to use UKRAINE as a ball at the AMERICAN national political field. Prosecutor Shokin did not open the case on Zlochevskyi & Burisma. He dumped it. And he was fired for being corrupt and failing prosecution reform @kenvogel

She is a Ukrainian who has fought corruption in Ukraine longer than Trump has been President.

Trump cut military aide to Ukraine which was totally unexpected and before he spoke to Zelensky. Then he says we give you a lot of money and we would like you to investigate the Bidens. That clearly is a quid pro quo. Since the prosecutor in question was not investigating Burisma, Biden had no vested interest in kicking Shokin out.

no one said he committed a crime,,, it about joe Bidens ethics and pay to play,,,

and trump didnt withhold money for them to investigate,,,
its time to get your facts straight or shut up...

Then why did trump hold up the money?

That has been readily documented in several cases, not just one. The ambassadors to Ukraine and the EU sent each other texts saying the aid was being withheld to see if the new administration in Ukraine was serious about corruption. They were, and the aid was restored. Fact. EOS.

Great, so what corruption did Trump discuss with Zelensky?

if you dont already know that you should shut up until you do,,,

LOLOLOL

That's the answer given by someone who doesn't want to admit the truth.

The truth you're avoiding is....

The corruption Trump was interested I'm Zelensky investigating was Biden and the DNC server.

Why were you too afraid to admit that?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

The “political opponent” part of this is where this whole thing falls on its face. You aren’t sheltered from legal scrutiny just because you happen to be running for political office. This is where you and many other people are being led astray. I don’t care about whether or not trump gets impeached over this, the fact remains that asking for information about someone allegedly committing a crime transcends elections. But if you want to go ahead and support stopping anyone from being investigated because they happen to also be running in an election then go right ahead. But be honest with yourself about it.

"The “political opponent” part of this is where this whole thing falls on its face. You aren’t sheltered from legal scrutiny just because you happen to be running for political office."

That applies to Trump too.

No shit. But the president asked for info about a person who may have committed a crime. Adding in that he’s a candidate for president or “political opponent” is irrelevant. The executive branch is allowed to request information to investigate corruption. I’m not even trying to defend trump on this, I couldn’t possibly care less who sits in that office anymore. If you want joe fucking Biden to be your president you can have at it. At this point I would hope there’s no one left who would want biden to be the president after everything we’ve learned about him but I’m sure there’s still plenty of you who don’t care. I’m just glad some corruption has been exposed. If trump goes down for exposing it then that’s good enough for me. You can go back to fighting over dem and repub now

A candidate is not allowed by law to solicit foreign aid for their campaign. Trump cannot hide behind the Executive branch to violate the law.

The law says donations or contributions. Try reading the law instead of assuming what it says.

Providing a service is a contribution.

Read the law. It says no such thing. Libtards read things in laws, transcripts, and articles that simply do not exist, yet swear it is there!

Where is the quid pro quo in the transcript of Trump's call to the Ukrainian president? Libtards swear it is there. Shifty Schiff swears it is there. Anyone with a room temp IQ can easily see that it is NOT there.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I think even most Republicans would admit that Trump is just plain stupid

His diplomatic skills are almost child like and left him open to impeachment charges. I can’t think of any other president from either party who would be so naive

1. Opens up with a reminder that the US is the only one in Ukraine’s corner and that Europe can’t be counted on
2. Enters a discussion on military aid (which he had frozen just a week before) and when the subject of Javelin missile sales comes up...
3. Trump immediately pounces with........I need a favor “though”
4. Rather than hide his personal favors in with some generic US policy favors, he lists two favors that only pertain to him and the coming election
5. Has his aides tie a personal visit to the President with progress on his “favors”

Any other President or Mafia Don would be more subtle in their requests and have the actual details handled by underlings

Trump deserves impeachment for shear stupidity

if we were to punish people for being stupid, pretty sure you'd only be allowed to post during your 5 minutes of exercise time from prison.

Do you honestly think Trump handled the conversation well?

thats irrelevant because its a matter of opinion,,,

It most definitly not is a "matter of opinion", it's a matter of the Constitution of the United States specifically forbids foreign interference in American elections. Impeachment was designed not only to remove a criminally corrupt President, it was also designed to remove a President who was a clear and present danger to the safety and security of the nation. That's why the Founders did not define specific crimes as impeachable offences, so that corrupt conduct, abuse of power, and other behaviour by a sitting President not acting in the interests of the nation, could also be impeachable. The difference here is that Trump is directly engaged in behaviour that the Founded found so odious that they actually put it into the Constitution - interference by a foreign power in a US election.

Trump is not just inviting Zelensky to interfere, he was demanding it in exchange for military aid approved by Congress and paid for by the American people. Then Trump and his aids conspired to hide the evidence of this extortion, all while working behind the scenes to corruptly fire the American Ambassador and have Trump operatives, like Volker and Sondland, carry out this subversion of American foreign policy.

Which ambassador was fired?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

no one said he committed a crime,,, it about joe Bidens ethics and pay to play,,,

and trump didnt withhold money for them to investigate,,,
its time to get your facts straight or shut up...

Then why did trump hold up the money?

That has been readily documented in several cases, not just one. The ambassadors to Ukraine and the EU sent each other texts saying the aid was being withheld to see if the new administration in Ukraine was serious about corruption. They were, and the aid was restored. Fact. EOS.

Great, so what corruption did Trump discuss with Zelensky?

if you dont already know that you should shut up until you do,,,

LOLOLOL

That's the answer given by someone who doesn't want to admit the truth.

The truth you're avoiding is....

The corruption Trump was interested I'm Zelensky investigating was Biden and the DNC server.

Why were you too afraid to admit that?

Why don't you convince the millions of other libtards of that fact first?

 

[NotYourBody]

Apparently it’s because the blob asked a foreign power to investigate the son of a political opponent in return for military aid.

to bad those arent the facts,,,

Facts???? Republicans wouldn't know a fact if it hit them in the head If the misfit in our WH repeats some bullshit often enough trumpettes believe it's fact Wait till all the whistle blowers get through with the trump garbage

Trumpettes have a bad case of TDSS - Trump Dick Suck Syndrome. The only cure is to remove their lips from his peenie and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

They are not able to process the facts right in front of them, even when they come straight from Trump's piggy mouth. I think it's probably all just too much for them to understand.

 

[iceberg]

Apparently it’s because the blob asked a foreign power to investigate the son of a political opponent in return for military aid.

to bad those arent the facts,,,

Facts???? Republicans wouldn't know a fact if it hit them in the head If the misfit in our WH repeats some bullshit often enough trumpettes believe it's fact Wait till all the whistle blowers get through with the trump garbage

Trumpettes have a bad case of TDSS - Trump Dick Suck Syndrome. The only cure is to remove their lips from his peenie and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

They are not able to process the facts right in front of them, even when they come straight from Trump's piggy mouth. I think it's probably all just too much for them to understand.

what a useless asshole.

you that is.

 

[Care4all]

We have a right to a Sovereign Election, without ANY foreign gvt interference...

The President trying to pull in China and the Ukraine governments, and giving the Russians a clean bill of health to go forward with their 2020 interference, is an ABUSE OF POWER and breaks our constitution and his oath of office....

It's just simply WRONG

Regardless of any law breaking, though that occurred as well.

 

[Olde Europe]

He's pissed because now he is pulled in to it, and won't be able to cover Trump's corruption, if they make him recuse himself from this mess.

Quite. Recent history also informs him that he can have his cushy job, or recuse himself, but not both.

 

[iceberg]

We have a right to a Sovereign Election,without ANY foreign interference...

The President trying to pull in China and the Ukraine governments, and giving the Russians a clean bill of health to go forward with their 2020 interference, is an ABUSE OF POWER and breaks our constitution and his oath of office....

It's just simply WRONG

Regardless of any law breaking, though that occurred as well.

man, this is throwing some emotional darts as a fictitious dartboard.

you really need to put your emotions down for awhile.

 

[progressive hunter]

yet the hillary campaign paid steele. where was he from again?

And yet, she didn't. She paid Fusion GPS, an American company. There's no law against that.

so great. trump can setup a company to do this for him.

if you're gonna let one side bypass this for any stated reason, you must allow all. period. end of story. this one sided shit is killing us all and people are so quick to put the noose around their neck and kick out their own chair because they hate the other side so much they can't see they're really looking in a mirror.

I'm not letting anyone pass. Trump solicited aid from a foreign national. That's illegal.

Hillary solicited aid from Fusion GPS. They're an American firm and that's legal.

Fusion GPS solicited aid from a foreign national at Hillary's request for dirt on her opponent in an election That's illegal.

The President of the United States asked for cooperation from a foreign head of state, and that is perfectly legal.

That may be illegal. That would be a crime by Fusion GPS if it is.

The president cannot solicit foreign aid for his or her own campaign.

but he is responsible for defending the country from corruption,,, and running for office doesnt protect anyone from that,,,

 

[Faun]

Since you don't want to answer, I'll answer for you.

• Investigate Biden and his son.
• Find the hacked DNC server.

Now I see why you didn't want to answer.

prove it was hacked.

That's seriously old news.

Inside story: How Russians hacked the Democrats' emails

and it's been seriously debunked by meta-data. it was also never allowed to be reviewed/analyzed.

FBI never examined hacked DNC servers itself: report

not gonna play your games of supposition.

LOL

That article doesn't debunk shit. WTF is wrong with you? All that article points out is that the FBI didn't examine the physical servers. We know that. We also know CrowdStrike supplied the FBI with exact duplicates of the hard drives, which is a perfectly acceptable copy.

been in IT all my life.

a copy may or may not be a copy and there is no reasonable excuse to NOT examine the actual server. if i read the left correctly they're upset they got a COPY of trumps phone call and demand the original EXACT one. yet, when it comes to their own hacked servers, a copy is fine and trustable.

don't allow your side to do things you won't allow the other side to do. all there is to it.

Then you're an IT retard. I'm in IT (software engineer) too and know:

a) a complete byte-for-byte copy is an exact duplicate.

b) there's nothing else on physical servers that the FBI needed to inspect.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Apparently it’s because the blob asked a foreign power to investigate the son of a political opponent in return for military aid.

to bad those arent the facts,,,

Facts???? Republicans wouldn't know a fact if it hit them in the head If the misfit in our WH repeats some bullshit often enough trumpettes believe it's fact Wait till all the whistle blowers get through with the trump garbage

Trumpettes have a bad case of TDSS - Trump Dick Suck Syndrome. The only cure is to remove their lips from his peenie and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

They are not able to process the facts right in front of them, even when they come straight from Trump's piggy mouth. I think it's probably all just too much for them to understand.

Morons like you post insults instead of arguments to support your beliefs. Which is ultimately worse?

 

[iceberg]

prove it was hacked.

That's seriously old news.

Inside story: How Russians hacked the Democrats' emails

and it's been seriously debunked by meta-data. it was also never allowed to be reviewed/analyzed.

FBI never examined hacked DNC servers itself: report

not gonna play your games of supposition.

LOL

That article doesn't debunk shit. WTF is wrong with you? All that article points out is that the FBI didn't examine the physical servers. We know that. We also know CrowdStrike supplied the FBI with exact duplicates of the hard drives, which is a perfectly acceptable copy.

been in IT all my life.

a copy may or may not be a copy and there is no reasonable excuse to NOT examine the actual server. if i read the left correctly they're upset they got a COPY of trumps phone call and demand the original EXACT one. yet, when it comes to their own hacked servers, a copy is fine and trustable.

don't allow your side to do things you won't allow the other side to do. all there is to it.

Then you're an IT retard. I'm in IT (software engineer) too and know:

a) a complete byte-for-byte copy is an exact duplicate.

b) there's nothing else on physical servers that the FBI needed to inspect.

when was it duplicated?
was it a snapshot of a VM?
what software made this copy and how?

there's a lot of questions that would crash and burn your "software program" if you don't answer them before writing that shit. yet, here we are with no one knowing that info but still screaming IT'S VALID!!!!

then - why not examine the exact server? why was that not "necessary"?

and if you notice, i'm trying to drop the jr high name calling. give it a shot or lets just end this cause you want to fight, not discuss.

 

[Faun]

A candidate is not allowed by law to solicit foreign aid for their campaign. Trump cannot hide behind the Executive branch to violate the law.

yet the hillary campaign paid steele. where was he from again?

The Hillary Campaign DID NOT hire or pay for Steele. The Hillary Campaign asked their law firm to opposition research. The law firm hired Fusion GPS, an American company, to provide that research. The Hillary Campaign paid Fusion GPS for opposition research. Hillary's lawyers only spoke to Fusion GPS, and had no knowledge of who was conducting that research.

In legal terms, this is called an "arm's length transaction". Hillary had no connection to or communication the researcher. Steele didn't know who the client was. That is how you do it.

But all of this talk of Biden and Hillary and what happened in past administrations is absolutely irrelevant to Donald J. Trump attempting to extort the Ukrainian government into "finding" evidence to smear Joe Biden in exchange for Javelin missiles. This is a flat out illegal abuse of power, a sell out of his country, and an impeachable offence.

So if Trump hires an American company to solicit campaign funds from foreign donors that would be perfectly legal using your logic?

Had he done that, it would have been illegal. He cannot hire an American company to hire a foreign national.

That is EXACTLY hat Fusion GPS did! So why is Hillary not wearing an orange jumpsuit?

Uh, no, that is not exactly what Hillary did. There is no evidence she hired Fusion GPS to hire Steele.

 

[Care4all]

And yet, she didn't. She paid Fusion GPS, an American company. There's no law against that.

so great. trump can setup a company to do this for him.

if you're gonna let one side bypass this for any stated reason, you must allow all. period. end of story. this one sided shit is killing us all and people are so quick to put the noose around their neck and kick out their own chair because they hate the other side so much they can't see they're really looking in a mirror.

I'm not letting anyone pass. Trump solicited aid from a foreign national. That's illegal.

Hillary solicited aid from Fusion GPS. They're an American firm and that's legal.

Fusion GPS solicited aid from a foreign national at Hillary's request for dirt on her opponent in an election That's illegal.

The President of the United States asked for cooperation from a foreign head of state, and that is perfectly legal.

That may be illegal. That would be a crime by Fusion GPS if it is.

The president cannot solicit foreign aid for his or her own campaign.

but he is responsible for defending the country from corruption,,, and running for office doesnt protect anyone from that,,,

please, for goodness sake, Americans are NOT this stupid.... we KNOW the sole purpose of going after Biden and slamming Biden 10 times in every conversation calling him corrupt

IS A PART OF HIS CAMPAIGN against his Rival......

Biden has not even gotten any due process and Trump is claiming, from his Presidential Bully Pulpit, that he is corrupt,


This has NOTHING to do with the corruption that may be going on in the Ukraine today....

THE ONLY corruption mentioned by Trump was his rival and crowdstrike which were BOTH personal requests from Trump, to HELP himself.

ALSO, the Pentagon gave the Ukraine a clean bill of health in their analysis on corruption there, in May of 2019...

ADDED LINK

Trump claim on stalled aid for Ukraine draws new scrutiny

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

yet the hillary campaign paid steele. where was he from again?

The Hillary Campaign DID NOT hire or pay for Steele. The Hillary Campaign asked their law firm to opposition research. The law firm hired Fusion GPS, an American company, to provide that research. The Hillary Campaign paid Fusion GPS for opposition research. Hillary's lawyers only spoke to Fusion GPS, and had no knowledge of who was conducting that research.

In legal terms, this is called an "arm's length transaction". Hillary had no connection to or communication the researcher. Steele didn't know who the client was. That is how you do it.

But all of this talk of Biden and Hillary and what happened in past administrations is absolutely irrelevant to Donald J. Trump attempting to extort the Ukrainian government into "finding" evidence to smear Joe Biden in exchange for Javelin missiles. This is a flat out illegal abuse of power, a sell out of his country, and an impeachable offence.

So if Trump hires an American company to solicit campaign funds from foreign donors that would be perfectly legal using your logic?

Had he done that, it would have been illegal. He cannot hire an American company to hire a foreign national.

That is EXACTLY hat Fusion GPS did! So why is Hillary not wearing an orange jumpsuit?

Uh, no, that is not exactly what Hillary did. There is no evidence she hired Fusion GPS to hire Steele.

There is no evidence?

You mean just like there is no evidence of Trump ever commiting a crime?

 

[Faun]

A candidate is not allowed by law to solicit foreign aid for their campaign. Trump cannot hide behind the Executive branch to violate the law.

yet the hillary campaign paid steele. where was he from again?

The Hillary Campaign DID NOT hire or pay for Steele. The Hillary Campaign asked their law firm to opposition research. The law firm hired Fusion GPS, an American company, to provide that research. The Hillary Campaign paid Fusion GPS for opposition research. Hillary's lawyers only spoke to Fusion GPS, and had no knowledge of who was conducting that research.

In legal terms, this is called an "arm's length transaction". Hillary had no connection to or communication the researcher. Steele didn't know who the client was. That is how you do it.

But all of this talk of Biden and Hillary and what happened in past administrations is absolutely irrelevant to Donald J. Trump attempting to extort the Ukrainian government into "finding" evidence to smear Joe Biden in exchange for Javelin missiles. This is a flat out illegal abuse of power, a sell out of his country, and an impeachable offence.

So if Trump hires an American company to solicit campaign funds from foreign donors that would be perfectly legal using your logic?

Had he done that, it would have been illegal. He cannot hire an American company to hire a foreign national.

Hillary hired Fusion GPS
Fusion GPS hired Steele

where was he from again?

is this where we go "but this is different"?

Great, all you have to do now is prove she knew, and was involved with, Fusion GPS was hiring a foreign national and you can get her charged with a crime. Just think about what a hero you will be to the right if you can do that.

 

[progressive hunter]

so great. trump can setup a company to do this for him.

if you're gonna let one side bypass this for any stated reason, you must allow all. period. end of story. this one sided shit is killing us all and people are so quick to put the noose around their neck and kick out their own chair because they hate the other side so much they can't see they're really looking in a mirror.

I'm not letting anyone pass. Trump solicited aid from a foreign national. That's illegal.

Hillary solicited aid from Fusion GPS. They're an American firm and that's legal.

Fusion GPS solicited aid from a foreign national at Hillary's request for dirt on her opponent in an election That's illegal.

The President of the United States asked for cooperation from a foreign head of state, and that is perfectly legal.

That may be illegal. That would be a crime by Fusion GPS if it is.

The president cannot solicit foreign aid for his or her own campaign.

but he is responsible for defending the country from corruption,,, and running for office doesnt protect anyone from that,,,

please, for goodness sake, Americans are NOT this stupid.... we KNOW the sole purpose of going after Biden and slamming Biden 10 times in every conversation calling him corrupt

IS A PART OF HIS CAMPAIGN against his Rival......

Biden has not even gotten any due process and Trump is claiming, from his Presidential Bully Pulpit, that he is corrupt,


This has NOTHING to do with the corruption that may be going on in the Ukraine today....

THE ONLY corruption mentioned by Trump was his rival and crowdstrike which were BOTH personal requests from Trump, to HELP himself.

ALSO, the Pentagon gave the Ukraine a clean bill of health in their analysis on corruption there, in May of 2019...

thanks for you opinion,,,

 

[NotYourBody]

Apparently it’s because the blob asked a foreign power to investigate the son of a political opponent in return for military aid.

to bad those arent the facts,,,

Facts???? Republicans wouldn't know a fact if it hit them in the head If the misfit in our WH repeats some bullshit often enough trumpettes believe it's fact Wait till all the whistle blowers get through with the trump garbage

Trumpettes have a bad case of TDSS - Trump Dick Suck Syndrome. The only cure is to remove their lips from his peenie and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

They are not able to process the facts right in front of them, even when they come straight from Trump's piggy mouth. I think it's probably all just too much for them to understand.

what a useless asshole.

you that is.

I see your lips are still firmly attached.