Let me 'splain somethin'.............

[ChrisL]

What about a person who murders or rapes children? Does he go to heaven too?

I have no authority to say who goes to heaven and who does not. I can offer some thoughts. Evil and hate cannot exist in the presence of Goodness and Love anymore than darkness can exist in the presence of light. For dark to have its existence, it must avoid light. For murder and rape to occur, one must avoid goodness and love. Therefore, I tend to see those who choose to murder and rape will choose to remain apart from God, who is the antithesis of who they wish to be.

Well, let me just say, that you are not the same as most of the people I have met who hold religious beliefs.

 

[ChrisL]

TONS of religious folks do in fact think they speak for God. They make judgments on his behalf about their fellow human beings. They tell us they think they know what "he" would want and they claim to know him.

 

[Meriweather]

Christ was crucified on the cross to bear our sins. True or false.

I don't do "True or False" having this stubborn insistence on answering in my own way. (You'll get used to it.)

Christ was not crucified to bear our sins on the cross. Christ bore our sins with him on the cross. The distinction (in my opinion) is significant.

 

[ChrisL]

Christ was crucified on the cross to bear our sins. True or false.

I don't do "True or False" having this stubborn insistence on answering in my own way. (You'll get used to it.)

Christ was not crucified to bear our sins on the cross. Christ bore our sins with him on the cross. The distinction (in my opinion) is significant.

What is the difference? I'm not seeing a difference here.

 

[ChrisL]

Christ was crucified on the cross to bear our sins. True or false.

I don't do "True or False" having this stubborn insistence on answering in my own way. (You'll get used to it.)

Christ was not crucified to bear our sins on the cross. Christ bore our sins with him on the cross. The distinction (in my opinion) is significant.

Let's leave the motivations out of it for the moment. Did God not put Jesus on this earth so that he could be crucified and suffer?

 

[Meriweather]

Well, why doesn't god help them? They shouldn't even need money with the all powerful omnipotent god they worship. The one who can give men the powers to part oceans and to fit two of every animal on a boat.

Another serious question though that was never really answered to my satisfaction, what about all of those "souls" who went to the great beyond long before Christianity even existed? Those people were not baptized and did not worship any god that you are knowledgeable about. People from different regions had different gods that they worshiped. The "one god" concept is fairly new when you consider how long people have existed. A few thousand years at most. What if the Greeks were right? Why do you consider their beliefs to be myths but not yours? I don't see you guys presenting any more viable evidence than the Greeks for their gods. Actually, some of their beliefs actually did stem from evidence, though misinterpreted possibly. I've read that beliefs of giants and things came about by the discovery of dinosaur bones. Kind of goes along with religious beliefs in general for me.

As far as those who lived before--and non-believers since: An often overlooked passage in Paul's letter to the Romans says that God's law is written on the heart of every human, and non-believers will be judged by their own hearts. The Catholic fallback position is that anything not specifically addressed in the Bible we entrust to a a loving and merciful Father.

I love Greek and Roman mythology. I was once so far into it I could see that legends were made from the lives of historical people and these became embroidered models for gods. Kind of like some nursery rhymes and fairy tales in later times were told to spread tales of real people, the same thing happened in Greece.

Anyway, think about it. We are so far from the ways of God, how much closer to the truth do you think we are than the Greeks and Romans? My neighbor can claim to be a few yards closer to the State capital than I am, but I doubt the State Assembly would be all that impressed.

Even so, I am glad I lived after Christ and in the era of computers. I like the knowledge we now have, whether the gain be in theology or science.

As far as dinosaur bones being mistaken for giants: There is a dinosaur bone pit in Utah with a half-dozen very legitimate theories about how they wound up there. It may never be known in my lifetime which theory is the correct one. This does not matter greatly to me. I think what is more important is that people consider all possibilities.

 

[Meriweather]

Well, let me just say, that you are not the same as most of the people I have met who hold religious beliefs.

I'm probably not as rare as you may think. My beliefs did not come out of thin air, but from years of study and some personal experiences. Our lives consume so much time, we don't have time to delve into everything as much as we might like. With most issues we all reach the point where (even thought there is more knowledge out there) we say, "This is as far as I need (or care) to go." I may have just pushed a little bit further in theology (which means I am probably about an inch ahead of the average).

 

[ChrisL]

Well, let me just say, that you are not the same as most of the people I have met who hold religious beliefs.

I'm probably not as rare as you may think. My beliefs did not come out of thin air, but from years of study and some personal experiences. Our lives consume so much time, we don't have time to delve into everything as much as we might like. With most issues we all reach the point where (even thought there is more knowledge out there) we say, "This is as far as I need (or care) to go." I may have just pushed a little bit further in theology (which means I am probably about an inch ahead of the average).

Um, yes, you are quite rare. You should feel good about that. You seem reasonable. Look around, will you?

 

[ChrisL]

Well, why doesn't god help them? They shouldn't even need money with the all powerful omnipotent god they worship. The one who can give men the powers to part oceans and to fit two of every animal on a boat.

Another serious question though that was never really answered to my satisfaction, what about all of those "souls" who went to the great beyond long before Christianity even existed? Those people were not baptized and did not worship any god that you are knowledgeable about. People from different regions had different gods that they worshiped. The "one god" concept is fairly new when you consider how long people have existed. A few thousand years at most. What if the Greeks were right? Why do you consider their beliefs to be myths but not yours? I don't see you guys presenting any more viable evidence than the Greeks for their gods. Actually, some of their beliefs actually did stem from evidence, though misinterpreted possibly. I've read that beliefs of giants and things came about by the discovery of dinosaur bones. Kind of goes along with religious beliefs in general for me.

As far as those who lived before--and non-believers since: An often overlooked passage in Paul's letter to the Romans says that God's law is written on the heart of every human, and non-believers will be judged by their own hearts. The Catholic fallback position is that anything not specifically addressed in the Bible we entrust to a a loving and merciful Father.

I love Greek and Roman mythology. I was once so far into it I could see that legends were made from the lives of historical people and these became embroidered models for gods. Kind of like some nursery rhymes and fairy tales in later times were told to spread tales of real people, the same thing happened in Greece.

Anyway, think about it. We are so far from the ways of God, how much closer to the truth do you think we are than the Greeks and Romans? My neighbor can claim to be a few yards closer to the State capital than I am, but I doubt the State Assembly would be all that impressed.

Even so, I am glad I lived after Christ and in the era of computers. I like the knowledge we now have, whether the gain be in theology or science.

As far as dinosaur bones being mistaken for giants: There is a dinosaur bone pit in Utah with a half-dozen very legitimate theories about how they wound up there. It may never be known in my lifetime which theory is the correct one. This does not matter greatly to me. I think what is more important is that people consider all possibilities.

I believe that a belief in what the bible says (also a book written by ancient men who did not know much) is really no different than what the Greeks and Romans believed.

We certainly don't know everything, but we know many of the beliefs expressed in the bible by ancient men to be false.

 

[Meriweather]

What is the difference? I'm not seeing a difference here.

Imagine Jesus drenched in the world's sins, appearing before God, and God's wrath at the amount of sin descending on the person carrying all the sins.

Now imagine Jesus bearing the world's sins in an enclosed bowl and appearing before God. Sin cannot exist in the presence of God, and mankind's sinful ways keep creating distance. How can that distance be bridged? God cannot dwell where sin dwells. So how about this: Mankind turns away from sin and to God. Repentance. God forgives repented sin as if it never existed. Forgiveness. What was Jesus preaching: Repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

In those days, covenants just weren't Covenants unless it was sealed in blood. Jesus gave his life so that people might hear of Repentance for the forgiveness of sins. Throughout his life Jesus was cognizant that a seed must die before it can produce fruit. I think he accepted the fact that he, the seed of this radical idea, had to die before the idea came to fruition. So he gave his life, his blood as the sign of this New Covenant: Repentance for the Forgiveness of Sins. It was a perfect sacrifice, one of goodness and made out of love for all mankind.

 

[Meriweather]

Let's leave the motivations out of it for the moment. Did God not put Jesus on this earth so that he could be crucified and suffer?

God put Jesus on earth so that we might understand God with us, and God's love for us. We were also given an example that obedience to God (turning away from sin) is a viable way of living here on earth--and also leads to eternal life.

What are the parameters for obeying God? How much obedience is "good enough"? I mean, if someone was going to kill you if you didn't perform some minor act of disobedience, it was okay to put your life first, right? Christ taught the laying down one's life, not the saving of it. Obeying God results in victory even over death.

 

[Meriweather]

I believe that a belief in what the bible says (also a book written by ancient men who did not know much) is really no different than what the Greeks and Romans believed.

We certainly don't know everything, but we know many of the beliefs expressed in the bible by ancient men to be false.

The beliefs expressed in the Bible are significantly different from what the Greeks and Romans believed. And, yes, some of what is written in the Bible as fact we know cannot be fact. But here is what people searching for information in the Bible that can be shown to be nonfactual are missing: The Bible was never intended to be a list of facts. In looking for facts we strain at the gnat and swallow the camel. The purpose of the Bible was the theme and the information that God is among us; He is in our midst. It addresses the question of if God is with us, why can't we see or experience Him?

 

[aris2chat]

All I know is that Sister taught her classes that Dante's version of hell could be found in Dante's Inferno, not the Bible. She asked us an interesting question. Did we, personally, know anyone who was going to hell? She had us laughing over the thought that no one we know will be in hell--must be filled with people we don't know. She then went through the math of everyone we knew, knew people we don't know, who also knew more people others didn't know...until she had us convinced everyone must be in heaven.

Then she asked, "What about people who truly want to be on their own without God? What about good people who simply don't want to be God's servants? Do you think God would force them into heaven to serve Him?"

We were taught God does not send anyone to hell, but people do choose to go there. And we were also taught to keep in mind, Dante's hell is his own vision, not God's.

What about a person who murders or rapes children? Does he go to heaven too?

if he confesses his sins behind a curtain and says a hail mary

If it is so easy to go to heaven, why use the image of a hell?

Some Evangelists use Hell as a "motivation" for salvation.
I think that purpose and meaning of life are enough.
Hell is a terrible place, but, our motivation should be for purpose and meaning of life now and after bodily death....

Oh, and let's just ignore hell? ROFL. You are a hoot!

Do you believe there is a Hell?
Are you afraid of it?

hell is what we make here and now. We can be happy or miserable. We can make life better or worse by both thoughts and actions.

 

[Bonzi]

What about a person who murders or rapes children? Does he go to heaven too?

if he confesses his sins behind a curtain and says a hail mary

If it is so easy to go to heaven, why use the image of a hell?

Some Evangelists use Hell as a "motivation" for salvation.
I think that purpose and meaning of life are enough.
Hell is a terrible place, but, our motivation should be for purpose and meaning of life now and after bodily death....

Oh, and let's just ignore hell? ROFL. You are a hoot!

Do you believe there is a Hell?
Are you afraid of it?

hell is what we make here and now. We can be happy or miserable. We can make life better or worse by both thoughts and actions.

What do you think happens after you die?

 

[aris2chat]

Let's leave the motivations out of it for the moment. Did God not put Jesus on this earth so that he could be crucified and suffer?

God put Jesus on earth so that we might understand God with us, and God's love for us. We were also given an example that obedience to God (turning away from sin) is a viable way of living here on earth--and also leads to eternal life.

What are the parameters for obeying God? How much obedience is "good enough"? I mean, if someone was going to kill you if you didn't perform some minor act of disobedience, it was okay to put your life first, right? Christ taught the laying down one's life, not the saving of it. Obeying God results in victory even over death.

Three years to understand god? It takes longer than that to understand those we love.
Jesus taught the torah, so why all the new christian faiths and other books?
If god could have been explained and know in three years with jesus, why do so many today that speak of god have no idea how to explain?
You believe.......... but you don't even know what you believe or why. You believe the words of a book(s) not written by jesus or god and not even by those who actually knew jesus and rewritten and translated many times after that. And you still have no idea about god, but you like to pretend to others that you do.

 

[aris2chat]

Let's leave the motivations out of it for the moment. Did God not put Jesus on this earth so that he could be crucified and suffer?

God put Jesus on earth so that we might understand God with us, and God's love for us. We were also given an example that obedience to God (turning away from sin) is a viable way of living here on earth--and also leads to eternal life.

What are the parameters for obeying God? How much obedience is "good enough"? I mean, if someone was going to kill you if you didn't perform some minor act of disobedience, it was okay to put your life first, right? Christ taught the laying down one's life, not the saving of it. Obeying God results in victory even over death.

Three years to understand god? It takes longer than that to understand those we love.
Jesus taught the torah, so why all the new christian faiths and other books?
If god could have been explained and know in three years with jesus, why do so many today that speak of god have no idea how to explain?
You believe.......... but you don't even know what you believe or why. You believe the words of a book(s) not written by jesus or god and not even by those who actually knew jesus and rewritten and translated many times after that. And you still have no idea about god, but you like to pretend to others that you do.

blind, deaf and dumb obedience to a book is not knowledge.

 

[Gracie]

What makes you the great definers of others God's??

My relationship is kinda personal, who the fuck do you think you are to comment on it??

Guess you never heard the words sanctimonious or hypocritical??

This ^

 

[ChrisL]

Let's leave the motivations out of it for the moment. Did God not put Jesus on this earth so that he could be crucified and suffer?

God put Jesus on earth so that we might understand God with us, and God's love for us. We were also given an example that obedience to God (turning away from sin) is a viable way of living here on earth--and also leads to eternal life.

What are the parameters for obeying God? How much obedience is "good enough"? I mean, if someone was going to kill you if you didn't perform some minor act of disobedience, it was okay to put your life first, right? Christ taught the laying down one's life, not the saving of it. Obeying God results in victory even over death.

Why is it okay for god to kill then? I'm sorry there is just nothing logical about your religious beliefs, IMO. They are much too far fetched and silly for me to ever believe in them.

 

[ChrisL]

I believe that a belief in what the bible says (also a book written by ancient men who did not know much) is really no different than what the Greeks and Romans believed.

We certainly don't know everything, but we know many of the beliefs expressed in the bible by ancient men to be false.

The beliefs expressed in the Bible are significantly different from what the Greeks and Romans believed. And, yes, some of what is written in the Bible as fact we know cannot be fact. But here is what people searching for information in the Bible that can be shown to be nonfactual are missing: The Bible was never intended to be a list of facts. In looking for facts we strain at the gnat and swallow the camel. The purpose of the Bible was the theme and the information that God is among us; He is in our midst. It addresses the question of if God is with us, why can't we see or experience Him?

No, they really aren't all that different. And, some of these men actually did claim to see and/or experience a God.

 

[Gracie]

if he confesses his sins behind a curtain and says a hail mary

If it is so easy to go to heaven, why use the image of a hell?

Some Evangelists use Hell as a "motivation" for salvation.
I think that purpose and meaning of life are enough.
Hell is a terrible place, but, our motivation should be for purpose and meaning of life now and after bodily death....

Oh, and let's just ignore hell? ROFL. You are a hoot!

Do you believe there is a Hell?
Are you afraid of it?

hell is what we make here and now. We can be happy or miserable. We can make life better or worse by both thoughts and actions.

What do you think happens after you die?

We meet our pets cuz they got there first.