Let’s Arm Teachers. Yeah, That’s a Peachy Idea (Eye Roll)

[harmonica]

Wrong.

Obviously you know nothing about shooting pistols, the training and experience required, and the inherent difficulty involved in being even moderately accurate.

I once went to a shooting range with a friend of mine who was in the secret service. My shooting was far more accurate than his, and I had not touched a weapon since I was a teenager. He really got pissed off when he couldn't beat my accuracy.

Shooting just isn't that hard. Even a snowflake can learn to handle a weapon.

wrong--you are shooting at PAPER!!!
I've shot at competitions before and have fired a lot
the ''trained'' police are notorious for being inaccurate:

•At least 2,623 bullets were fired by police in 435 shootings. In 235 of those incidents, officers struck at least one person; in another 200 shootings, officers missed entirely.

92 deaths, 2,623 bullets: Tracking every Chicago police shooting over 6 years
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-police...hit-the-target-What-should-be-done-about-that
HARSH REALITY: Police Are Not Highly Trained Firearms Experts
much info here:
https://cops.usdoj.gov/pdf/deadly-force-statistical-analysis.pdf
etc etc

If the cops can't do it, then what's your objection to allowing civilians to give it a try?

I'm ok with teachers being armed --if they want...
but is this the type of living/community we want?

May not be the type of community we want, but I also don't want to live in a community where an individual can kill 17 kids.

yes--so we should try to make it very hard for people to get ''tools'' designed to kill ---very fast and very efficiently
..it's much better to be pro-active--not reactive
if there had been the sensible law that you need to be 21 to buy guns, it would've been much harder for the Columbine shooters and this guy
..and the sensible law of no gifting/no giving your weapon

a key aspect is proliferation! if sensible--but NOT infringing--laws were in place, the proliferation of guns would be a lot less if we started decades ago

no--it can't be effective over night or a year--but over decades--yes

 

[jc456]

.

Whenever a mass shooting occurs, the first words out of the mouths of conservatives is, “We need more guns in the hands of civilians.” Or something like it.

It’s that unreasonable conservative mind-set, that forces them to believe the fairy tale that untrained civilians know instinctively, where the gunfire is located, immediately recognize the individual(s) doing the shooting, and have the steel nerves and iron will to confront and kill the shooter(s), without hesitation or concern for their own safety.

What so often proves this unreasonable mind-set of the conservatives to be a total fantasy is the choice by trained law enforcement officers to avoid exacerbating an already uncontrolled situation. This can be seen no better than in the shooting incident last week at Florida’s Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

In addition to the school resource officer from the Broward County Sheriff’s office Scot Peterson, Coral Springs police officers arriving at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, found three additional Broward County Sheriff’s Deputies who had not yet entered the building.

Sadly, these four men apparently remained outside while directing Coral Springs police officers to the building where the shooting took place, even as the Coral Springs officers entered, joined by two newly arrived Broward County Deputies.

It is likely there will be a whitewash of this incident as “Sources cautioned that tapes are currently being reviewed and official accounts could ultimately differ from recollections of officers on the scene.” Gotta CYA to protect the county and themselves from the inevitable lawsuits.

But the coming whitewash aside, this again proves that “Rambo” instinct, which most conservatives are certain they posses, is a fairy tale they use to fool themselves.

As it turns out, Deputy Peterson was eligible for retirement. So one must wonder if that didn’t enter into his decision to remain outside. He had, after all, survived his career in law enforcement long enough to retire from the Sheriff’s Department. Like Peterson, the three other deputies could very well have had second thoughts, making them unsure of the results were they to rush headlong into the unknown.

Conservatives who are certain they have that “Rambo” instinct, like to think they are courageous hero-types and are capable of single-handedly saving the day. But, there is a good reason law enforcement agencies have SWAT teams. The officers who are members of these teams train and retrain regularly. They wear protective gear, have available to them fully automatic weapons, are experts in their use, and in the use of other military-style equipment.

The four experienced officers who were armed with only pistols chose caution and did not rush into the unknown situation. But, conservatives expect teachers armed only with pistols and minimal training to jump in and face killers firing their AR-15s at anything that moves.

It’s unfortunate these conservatives calling for the arming of teachers are so certain of this “Rambo” instinct. If it does exist, it does so only in a tiny, tiny percentage of regular citizens (most of whom must have death wishes).

As people of reason know, these conservatives are nothing more than “keyboard warriors”. They are brave beyond all else, but only when safely typing their attacks, anonymously. The truth is, they are too old, or too fat, or are out of shape, or too slow and crippled-up, or would freeze in fear, or any combination there of, to truly be the heroes they’ve convinced themselves they would be. They are the “Monday morning quarterbacks” of mass shooting response, and all of them would hesitate or totally freeze when called upon to weigh the threat of their own death against defending strangers. Just as the four Broward County Deputies did. No Rambos there.

As always, thoughtful comments are welcome. Unfortunately, in the conservatives' responses to this thread we can expect only their typical nonsense, denial, alternate facts, and off-topic silliness. (e.g. non-sequiturs, ratings, transference, memes, etc.), to which any reply is a waste of time.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/parkland-school-shooting-broward-deputies/index.html

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/coward-sheriffs-deputy-one-four-12079659







.





.

So gun free zones is working so well? LOL!

 

[BS Filter]

Had someone had a gun the shooter would have been dropped.

In this case, balls would have been enough. The security apparently was too ball-less to confront the shooter.

Stop going after people's rights because your heroes completely sucked at preventing the shooting.

Wrong.

Obviously you know nothing about shooting pistols, the training and experience required, and the inherent difficulty involved in being even moderately accurate.

I once went to a shooting range with a friend of mine who was in the secret service. My shooting was far more accurate than his, and I had not touched a weapon since I was a teenager. He really got pissed off when he couldn't beat my accuracy.

Shooting just isn't that hard. Even a snowflake can learn to handle a weapon.

...you see these shooting videos where people make incredible shots--they have time to aim/and or practice a lot
...they are not running, stopping, running...the target is stationary PAPER
...or I've seen shooters hit discs that are shot low to the ground---it's ejected at about the same speed and height--so the shooter knows where it will be, and practices shooting it a lot--this is ''trick'' shooting.......
...we trained for ''quick'' shooting with M16A2s where you don't use the sights
this can be done well--with training--lots of training

Listen, shooters in gun free zones, you know the places you want to remain in place, always expect defenseless people that they can kill easily. But you are twisting every truth and half truth to keep it that way! I'd bet your sorry lying ass money that the first shooter shot and killed by an armed person in a school would stop a lot of this crap!

it would be a lot better to stop the shooters from being able to shoot before they get to the school--yes??

How do you do that?

 

[saveliberty]

If I were a teacher these days, I'd at least like the option of a taser.

 

[jc456]

I once went to a shooting range with a friend of mine who was in the secret service. My shooting was far more accurate than his, and I had not touched a weapon since I was a teenager. He really got pissed off when he couldn't beat my accuracy.

Shooting just isn't that hard. Even a snowflake can learn to handle a weapon.

wrong--you are shooting at PAPER!!!
I've shot at competitions before and have fired a lot
the ''trained'' police are notorious for being inaccurate:

•At least 2,623 bullets were fired by police in 435 shootings. In 235 of those incidents, officers struck at least one person; in another 200 shootings, officers missed entirely.

92 deaths, 2,623 bullets: Tracking every Chicago police shooting over 6 years
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-police...hit-the-target-What-should-be-done-about-that
HARSH REALITY: Police Are Not Highly Trained Firearms Experts
much info here:
https://cops.usdoj.gov/pdf/deadly-force-statistical-analysis.pdf
etc etc

If the cops can't do it, then what's your objection to allowing civilians to give it a try?

I'm ok with teachers being armed --if they want...
but is this the type of living/community we want?

May not be the type of community we want, but I also don't want to live in a community where an individual can kill 17 kids.

yes--so we should try to make it very hard for people to get ''tools'' designed to kill ---very fast and very efficiently
..it's much better to be pro-active--not reactive
if there had been the sensible law that you need to be 21 to buy guns, it would've been much harder for the Columbine shooters and this guy
..and the sensible law of no gifting/no giving your weapon

a key aspect is proliferation! if sensible--but NOT infringing--laws were in place, the proliferation of guns would be a lot less if we started decades ago

no--it can't be effective over night or a year--but over decades--yes

What products did Timothy mcveigh use?

 

[Thinker101]

I once went to a shooting range with a friend of mine who was in the secret service. My shooting was far more accurate than his, and I had not touched a weapon since I was a teenager. He really got pissed off when he couldn't beat my accuracy.

Shooting just isn't that hard. Even a snowflake can learn to handle a weapon.

wrong--you are shooting at PAPER!!!
I've shot at competitions before and have fired a lot
the ''trained'' police are notorious for being inaccurate:

•At least 2,623 bullets were fired by police in 435 shootings. In 235 of those incidents, officers struck at least one person; in another 200 shootings, officers missed entirely.

92 deaths, 2,623 bullets: Tracking every Chicago police shooting over 6 years
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-police...hit-the-target-What-should-be-done-about-that
HARSH REALITY: Police Are Not Highly Trained Firearms Experts
much info here:
https://cops.usdoj.gov/pdf/deadly-force-statistical-analysis.pdf
etc etc

If the cops can't do it, then what's your objection to allowing civilians to give it a try?

I'm ok with teachers being armed --if they want...
but is this the type of living/community we want?

May not be the type of community we want, but I also don't want to live in a community where an individual can kill 17 kids.

yes--so we should try to make it very hard for people to get ''tools'' designed to kill ---very fast and very efficiently
..it's much better to be pro-active--not reactive
if there had been the sensible law that you need to be 21 to buy guns, it would've been much harder for the Columbine shooters and this guy
..and the sensible law of no gifting/no giving your weapon

a key aspect is proliferation! if sensible--but NOT infringing--laws were in place, the proliferation of guns would be a lot less if we started decades ago

no--it can't be effective over night or a year--but over decades--yes

I'm all for raising the gun buying age to 21. Unless they join the military.

 

[miketx]

If I were a teacher these days, I'd at least like the option of a taser.

That's what I'd say too. Some wacked out dope head is shooting at me and I'll taser him. Good one.

 

[jc456]

Wrong.

Obviously you know nothing about shooting pistols, the training and experience required, and the inherent difficulty involved in being even moderately accurate.

I once went to a shooting range with a friend of mine who was in the secret service. My shooting was far more accurate than his, and I had not touched a weapon since I was a teenager. He really got pissed off when he couldn't beat my accuracy.

Shooting just isn't that hard. Even a snowflake can learn to handle a weapon.

wrong--you are shooting at PAPER!!!
I've shot at competitions before and have fired a lot
the ''trained'' police are notorious for being inaccurate:

•At least 2,623 bullets were fired by police in 435 shootings. In 235 of those incidents, officers struck at least one person; in another 200 shootings, officers missed entirely.

92 deaths, 2,623 bullets: Tracking every Chicago police shooting over 6 years
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-police...hit-the-target-What-should-be-done-about-that
HARSH REALITY: Police Are Not Highly Trained Firearms Experts
much info here:
https://cops.usdoj.gov/pdf/deadly-force-statistical-analysis.pdf
etc etc

If the cops can't do it, then what's your objection to allowing civilians to give it a try?

I'm ok with teachers being armed --if they want...
but is this the type of living/community we want?

May not be the type of community we want, but I also don't want to live in a community where an individual can kill 17 kids.

It is a shame that the people we pay to protect us can’t! I I’ll keep the guns thanks. I’ll defend myself.

 

[miketx]

wrong--you are shooting at PAPER!!!
I've shot at competitions before and have fired a lot
the ''trained'' police are notorious for being inaccurate:
92 deaths, 2,623 bullets: Tracking every Chicago police shooting over 6 years
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-police...hit-the-target-What-should-be-done-about-that
HARSH REALITY: Police Are Not Highly Trained Firearms Experts
much info here:
https://cops.usdoj.gov/pdf/deadly-force-statistical-analysis.pdf
etc etc

If the cops can't do it, then what's your objection to allowing civilians to give it a try?

I'm ok with teachers being armed --if they want...
but is this the type of living/community we want?

May not be the type of community we want, but I also don't want to live in a community where an individual can kill 17 kids.

yes--so we should try to make it very hard for people to get ''tools'' designed to kill ---very fast and very efficiently
..it's much better to be pro-active--not reactive
if there had been the sensible law that you need to be 21 to buy guns, it would've been much harder for the Columbine shooters and this guy
..and the sensible law of no gifting/no giving your weapon

a key aspect is proliferation! if sensible--but NOT infringing--laws were in place, the proliferation of guns would be a lot less if we started decades ago

no--it can't be effective over night or a year--but over decades--yes

I'm all for raising the gun buying age to 21. Unless they join the military.

How will that stop a killer who is willing the break that law?

 

[Thinker101]

If the cops can't do it, then what's your objection to allowing civilians to give it a try?

I'm ok with teachers being armed --if they want...
but is this the type of living/community we want?

May not be the type of community we want, but I also don't want to live in a community where an individual can kill 17 kids.

yes--so we should try to make it very hard for people to get ''tools'' designed to kill ---very fast and very efficiently
..it's much better to be pro-active--not reactive
if there had been the sensible law that you need to be 21 to buy guns, it would've been much harder for the Columbine shooters and this guy
..and the sensible law of no gifting/no giving your weapon

a key aspect is proliferation! if sensible--but NOT infringing--laws were in place, the proliferation of guns would be a lot less if we started decades ago

no--it can't be effective over night or a year--but over decades--yes

I'm all for raising the gun buying age to 21. Unless they join the military.

How will that stop a killer who is willing the break that law?

And your solution is what, to ban guns? How will that stop a killer willing to break that law?

 

[miketx]

I'm ok with teachers being armed --if they want...
but is this the type of living/community we want?

May not be the type of community we want, but I also don't want to live in a community where an individual can kill 17 kids.

yes--so we should try to make it very hard for people to get ''tools'' designed to kill ---very fast and very efficiently
..it's much better to be pro-active--not reactive
if there had been the sensible law that you need to be 21 to buy guns, it would've been much harder for the Columbine shooters and this guy
..and the sensible law of no gifting/no giving your weapon

a key aspect is proliferation! if sensible--but NOT infringing--laws were in place, the proliferation of guns would be a lot less if we started decades ago

no--it can't be effective over night or a year--but over decades--yes

I'm all for raising the gun buying age to 21. Unless they join the military.

How will that stop a killer who is willing the break that law?

And your solution is what, to ban guns? How will that stop a killer willing to break that law?

Ban guns? That's idiotic. They ignore the laws now, so how will banning something stop them?

 

[Thinker101]

May not be the type of community we want, but I also don't want to live in a community where an individual can kill 17 kids.

yes--so we should try to make it very hard for people to get ''tools'' designed to kill ---very fast and very efficiently
..it's much better to be pro-active--not reactive
if there had been the sensible law that you need to be 21 to buy guns, it would've been much harder for the Columbine shooters and this guy
..and the sensible law of no gifting/no giving your weapon

a key aspect is proliferation! if sensible--but NOT infringing--laws were in place, the proliferation of guns would be a lot less if we started decades ago

no--it can't be effective over night or a year--but over decades--yes

I'm all for raising the gun buying age to 21. Unless they join the military.

How will that stop a killer who is willing the break that law?

And your solution is what, to ban guns? How will that stop a killer willing to break that law?

Ban guns? That's idiotic. They ignore the laws now, so how will banning something stop them?

That was a question, which is why I put the "?". So what is your suggestion?

 

[miketx]

yes--so we should try to make it very hard for people to get ''tools'' designed to kill ---very fast and very efficiently
..it's much better to be pro-active--not reactive
if there had been the sensible law that you need to be 21 to buy guns, it would've been much harder for the Columbine shooters and this guy
..and the sensible law of no gifting/no giving your weapon

a key aspect is proliferation! if sensible--but NOT infringing--laws were in place, the proliferation of guns would be a lot less if we started decades ago

no--it can't be effective over night or a year--but over decades--yes

I'm all for raising the gun buying age to 21. Unless they join the military.

How will that stop a killer who is willing the break that law?

And your solution is what, to ban guns? How will that stop a killer willing to break that law?

Ban guns? That's idiotic. They ignore the laws now, so how will banning something stop them?

That was a question, which is why I put the "?". So what is your suggestion?

As I have stated previously let certain teachers who want to carry a pistol as a last resort and or hire retired military to act as armed defenders in schools. The only reason liberal scum object to this is because it goes against their guns are bad mantra, and it just might stop the liberal brainwashing agenda in schools from being as effective.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

No schools are currently prevented by the federal government from employing armed guards. If they wanted teachers armed they could have had them by now - and in fact a few do.

Of course if you want a federally mandated, federally funded school security personnel program implemented - at huge expense -

give up your precious little tax cut to pay for it.

All that needs to be done is to cut back welfare spending as the economy grows and more people have opportunities to get back to work. Also, cut funding to those states which protect illegals and clearly choose NOT to cooperate with ICE and Federal Immigration Laws. Why have an open border that allows more illegals to come in, violence to flow, human trafficking to spread, all while paying welfare to those who have chosen not to work? The left wants to bring in and support more people who can’t care for themselves, while criticizing republicans about spending practices. Progressives are the very last ones that have a grip on, and should be lecturing the right, with regard to spending.

Nonsense.

If you really want to save money to arm teachers, cut wasteful, unnecessary military spending; it’s military spending that creates the deficits conservatives love so much.

 

[PoliticalChic]

.

Whenever a mass shooting occurs, the first words out of the mouths of conservatives is, “We need more guns in the hands of civilians.” Or something like it.

It’s that unreasonable conservative mind-set, that forces them to believe the fairy tale that untrained civilians know instinctively, where the gunfire is located, immediately recognize the individual(s) doing the shooting, and have the steel nerves and iron will to confront and kill the shooter(s), without hesitation or concern for their own safety.

What so often proves this unreasonable mind-set of the conservatives to be a total fantasy is the choice by trained law enforcement officers to avoid exacerbating an already uncontrolled situation. This can be seen no better than in the shooting incident last week at Florida’s Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

In addition to the school resource officer from the Broward County Sheriff’s office Scot Peterson, Coral Springs police officers arriving at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, found three additional Broward County Sheriff’s Deputies who had not yet entered the building.

Sadly, these four men apparently remained outside while directing Coral Springs police officers to the building where the shooting took place, even as the Coral Springs officers entered, joined by two newly arrived Broward County Deputies.

It is likely there will be a whitewash of this incident as “Sources cautioned that tapes are currently being reviewed and official accounts could ultimately differ from recollections of officers on the scene.” Gotta CYA to protect the county and themselves from the inevitable lawsuits.

But the coming whitewash aside, this again proves that “Rambo” instinct, which most conservatives are certain they posses, is a fairy tale they use to fool themselves.

As it turns out, Deputy Peterson was eligible for retirement. So one must wonder if that didn’t enter into his decision to remain outside. He had, after all, survived his career in law enforcement long enough to retire from the Sheriff’s Department. Like Peterson, the three other deputies could very well have had second thoughts, making them unsure of the results were they to rush headlong into the unknown.

Conservatives who are certain they have that “Rambo” instinct, like to think they are courageous hero-types and are capable of single-handedly saving the day. But, there is a good reason law enforcement agencies have SWAT teams. The officers who are members of these teams train and retrain regularly. They wear protective gear, have available to them fully automatic weapons, are experts in their use, and in the use of other military-style equipment.

The four experienced officers who were armed with only pistols chose caution and did not rush into the unknown situation. But, conservatives expect teachers armed only with pistols and minimal training to jump in and face killers firing their AR-15s at anything that moves.

It’s unfortunate these conservatives calling for the arming of teachers are so certain of this “Rambo” instinct. If it does exist, it does so only in a tiny, tiny percentage of regular citizens (most of whom must have death wishes).

As people of reason know, these conservatives are nothing more than “keyboard warriors”. They are brave beyond all else, but only when safely typing their attacks, anonymously. The truth is, they are too old, or too fat, or are out of shape, or too slow and crippled-up, or would freeze in fear, or any combination there of, to truly be the heroes they’ve convinced themselves they would be. They are the “Monday morning quarterbacks” of mass shooting response, and all of them would hesitate or totally freeze when called upon to weigh the threat of their own death against defending strangers. Just as the four Broward County Deputies did. No Rambos there.

As always, thoughtful comments are welcome. Unfortunately, in the conservatives' responses to this thread we can expect only their typical nonsense, denial, alternate facts, and off-topic silliness. (e.g. non-sequiturs, ratings, transference, memes, etc.), to which any reply is a waste of time.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/parkland-school-shooting-broward-deputies/index.html

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/coward-sheriffs-deputy-one-four-12079659







.





.

"....the fairy tale that untrained civilians know instinctively, where the gunfire is located, immediately recognize the individual(s) doing the shooting, and have the steel nerves and iron will to confront and kill the shooter(s), without hesitation or concern for their own safety."


Well, then....training them would remove your objection.


Now....if we accept the reality....
"Over 98% of mass shootings occurred on gun-free zones, research shows"
....and we refuse to allow Democrats to use the lives of schoolchildren as a political football....

...let's get down to business:

"Let’s say we want the bare minimum, just enough to pass the safety requirement for gun ownership. In Maryland, there’s a company that will charge you $100 for that training. The cost, then, would be about $71.8 million for all of our teachers.

.....more robust training means that the cost for our 718,000 teachers spikes to $718 million. There would almost certainly be some efficiencies of scale that would come into play here — systems would be developed to train teachers quickly and at less cost — but the figure would still likely run into the hundreds of millions of dollars."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ming-americas-schools/?utm_term=.296687096db3


WHAT?????

That's it????????



Here's a place to start:
"...the nearly $450 million spent annually on National Public Radio, the Public Broadcasting Network and a number of small regional public radio and TV networks would disappear."
Trump Budget Has Public Broadcasting in a Fight for its Life

Here's another 'donation'...
"...Planned Parenthood receives approximately $500 million a year in taxpayer funds, as a GAO report indicated last year."
How Much of Your Tax Money Does Planned Parenthood Get? A New Report Will Tell You | LifeNews.com



What the heck are we waiting for???????

 

[Thinker101]

I'm all for raising the gun buying age to 21. Unless they join the military.

How will that stop a killer who is willing the break that law?

And your solution is what, to ban guns? How will that stop a killer willing to break that law?

Ban guns? That's idiotic. They ignore the laws now, so how will banning something stop them?

That was a question, which is why I put the "?". So what is your suggestion?

As I have stated previously let certain teachers who want to carry a pistol as a last resort and or hire retired military to act as armed defenders in schools. The only reason liberal scum object to this is because it goes against their guns are bad mantra, and it just might stop the liberal brainwashing agenda in schools from being as effective.

Hey, if liberals don't like it, I'm all for it. Although I kinda doubt it will prevent the liberal brainwashing in schools.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Had someone had a gun the shooter would have been dropped.

In this case, balls would have been enough. The security apparently was too ball-less to confront the shooter.

Stop going after people's rights because your heroes completely sucked at preventing the shooting.

Wrong.

Obviously you know nothing about shooting pistols, the training and experience required, and the inherent difficulty involved in being even moderately accurate.

I once went to a shooting range with a friend of mine who was in the secret service. My shooting was far more accurate than his, and I had not touched a weapon since I was a teenager. He really got pissed off when he couldn't beat my accuracy.

Shooting just isn't that hard. Even a snowflake can learn to handle a weapon.

First time I ever fired a handgun, I was at the shooting range with my then-boyfriend. It was his gun. I outshot him. He refused to go to the gun range with me again. Second time, I was with my best friend, a retired Marine. I outshot him, too.

I guess it depends on the person, hmmm?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Let's think about his.....hmmmm...

Just maybe?

Just maybe?

Um, no, not at all.

• Jesus was a man. Men have limited lifespans.
• According to Jesus, Jesus' life had to be sacrificed to save man's soul. If he'd had a gun, he wouldn't have used it to save his life. The ought century had ranged weapons and if Jesus and his disciples were of a mind to resist the Romans, they would have secured them and done so.
• The state crucified Jesus and, gun or no gun, as it did with Spartacus some 50 years later, the state was going to use whatever resources it needed to to apprehend him and see him dead.

Jesus also CHOSE to allow Himself to be killed. He certainly didn't have to, and wouldn't have needed any weapon to stop it.

 

[harmonica]

wrong--you are shooting at PAPER!!!
I've shot at competitions before and have fired a lot
the ''trained'' police are notorious for being inaccurate:
92 deaths, 2,623 bullets: Tracking every Chicago police shooting over 6 years
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-police...hit-the-target-What-should-be-done-about-that
HARSH REALITY: Police Are Not Highly Trained Firearms Experts
much info here:
https://cops.usdoj.gov/pdf/deadly-force-statistical-analysis.pdf
etc etc

If the cops can't do it, then what's your objection to allowing civilians to give it a try?

I'm ok with teachers being armed --if they want...
but is this the type of living/community we want?

May not be the type of community we want, but I also don't want to live in a community where an individual can kill 17 kids.

yes--so we should try to make it very hard for people to get ''tools'' designed to kill ---very fast and very efficiently
..it's much better to be pro-active--not reactive
if there had been the sensible law that you need to be 21 to buy guns, it would've been much harder for the Columbine shooters and this guy
..and the sensible law of no gifting/no giving your weapon

a key aspect is proliferation! if sensible--but NOT infringing--laws were in place, the proliferation of guns would be a lot less if we started decades ago

no--it can't be effective over night or a year--but over decades--yes

What products did Timothy mcveigh use?

hahaha--I've blasted that argument to hell, before!!
1. these shooters usually want the gratification of directly killing
--they are NOT using bombs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! are they?????!! NOT using bombs--understand??!!!???
2....99.999% of school shootings/killings have been with firearms--because it is much easier!!
3. bombs have NOT been used in over 99% of ALL murders in the US !!
4.we want to make it harder for people to kill--obviously
it was much more difficult for TM to build his bomb than just getting a rifle and pulling a trigger

McVeigh then added a dual-fuse ignition system accessible from the truck's front cab. He drilled two holes in the cab of the truck under the seat, while two holes were also drilled in the body of the truck. One green cannon fuse was run through each hole into the cab.

etc etc
Oklahoma City bombing - Wikipedia
takes time gathering the materials/etc
--he would have to park the truck fairly close to the building to get sure kills--basic SOP security is no trucks parked where they are not supposed to be/lone packages--back packs removed and/or school evacuated

I've refuted the bomb crap before--stop with the bomb crap
they are NOT using bombs--when they do -we will cross that bridge

it's like a doctor saying ''well, you have cancer, but why should we operate on it because you could die by a lightning strike'' !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Yarddog]

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Whenever a mass shooting occurs, the first words out of the mouths of conservatives is, “We need more guns in the hands of civilians.” Or something like it.

It’s that unreasonable conservative mind-set, that forces them to believe the fairy tale that untrained civilians know instinctively, where the gunfire is located, immediately recognize the individual(s) doing the shooting, and have the steel nerves and iron will to confront and kill the shooter(s), without hesitation or concern for their own safety.

What so often proves this unreasonable mind-set of the conservatives to be a total fantasy is the choice by trained law enforcement officers to avoid exacerbating an already uncontrolled situation. This can be seen no better than in the shooting incident last week at Florida’s Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

In addition to the school resource officer from the Broward County Sheriff’s office Scot Peterson, Coral Springs police officers arriving at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, found three additional Broward County Sheriff’s Deputies who had not yet entered the building.

Sadly, these four men apparently remained outside while directing Coral Springs police officers to the building where the shooting took place, even as the Coral Springs officers entered, joined by two newly arrived Broward County Deputies.

It is likely there will be a whitewash of this incident as “Sources cautioned that tapes are currently being reviewed and official accounts could ultimately differ from recollections of officers on the scene.” Gotta CYA to protect the county and themselves from the inevitable lawsuits.

But the coming whitewash aside, this again proves that “Rambo” instinct, which most conservatives are certain they posses, is a fairy tale they use to fool themselves.

As it turns out, Deputy Peterson was eligible for retirement. So one must wonder if that didn’t enter into his decision to remain outside. He had, after all, survived his career in law enforcement long enough to retire from the Sheriff’s Department. Like Peterson, the three other deputies could very well have had second thoughts, making them unsure of the results were they to rush headlong into the unknown.

Conservatives who are certain they have that “Rambo” instinct, like to think they are courageous hero-types and are capable of single-handedly saving the day. But, there is a good reason law enforcement agencies have SWAT teams. The officers who are members of these teams train and retrain regularly. They wear protective gear, have available to them fully automatic weapons, are experts in their use, and in the use of other military-style equipment.

The four experienced officers who were armed with only pistols chose caution and did not rush into the unknown situation. But, conservatives expect teachers armed only with pistols and minimal training to jump in and face killers firing their AR-15s at anything that moves.

It’s unfortunate these conservatives calling for the arming of teachers are so certain of this “Rambo” instinct. If it does exist, it does so only in a tiny, tiny percentage of regular citizens (most of whom must have death wishes).

As people of reason know, these conservatives are nothing more than “keyboard warriors”. They are brave beyond all else, but only when safely typing their attacks, anonymously. The truth is, they are too old, or too fat, or are out of shape, or too slow and crippled-up, or would freeze in fear, or any combination there of, to truly be the heroes they’ve convinced themselves they would be. They are the “Monday morning quarterbacks” of mass shooting response, and all of them would hesitate or totally freeze when called upon to weigh the threat of their own death against defending strangers. Just as the four Broward County Deputies did. No Rambos there.

As always, thoughtful comments are welcome. Unfortunately, in the conservatives' responses to this thread we can expect only their typical nonsense, denial, alternate facts, and off-topic silliness. (e.g. non-sequiturs, ratings, transference, memes, etc.), to which any reply is a waste of time.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/parkland-school-shooting-broward-deputies/index.html

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/coward-sheriffs-deputy-one-four-12079659







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Arming teachers is not a solution to the problem of why, kids have the need to kill their classmates. It's a social dissorder that needs to be looked at along with the over medicating of our youth..... which was done haphazzardly by people who didnt really know what the hell they were doing.
However just because you feel insecure when holding a fire arm and there are others out there who are insecure, doesnt mean that those teachers who are not afraid to take fire arm training..... shouldnt do exactly that, and have a gun.
So far, none of these deaths have been caused by someone trying to stop the shooter... missing their target and hitting an innocent bystander. As a matter of fact, some of the shooters Have been brought down by someone else with a gun. unfortunantly, plastic forks and spoons from the teachers lounge wont work when someone is walking down the hall killing people. So the question is , if there is a teacher out there competent enough to keep a fire arm, why deny them the right to be prepared. A teacher is just a human being, no different from the armed security guard at your bank.

seems to me these killings are not happening at banks, airports, city hall, your local courthouse..... so lets say we remove all that security from those places, protecting adults... and put that same security in our schools where people are actually getting killed. let the adults fend for themselves